external image

North Korea and US politics

Status
Not open for further replies.
Both, Pompeo and Bolton are pure war hawks. If it were up to them then Iran and NK would have been bombed long time ago.

But it was Bolton and Pence would referred in public the Libya model. Now that did not end well with Gaddafi, didn't it? And then Pence basically issuing a ultimatum on TV before they even sat down for a first talk.

Just ridiculous and undisciplined behavior, like they are total greenhorns in diplomacy. :rolleyes:

It might turn out to be a positive that they canceled the meeting. The South-Koreans know now that the US cannot be relied on and they best conduct their discussion with NK on bi-lateral basis only.

Oh right it was Pence and not pompeo that scuttled it, there's something strange and robotic about that pence he gave me the creeps when I first saw him, coming from nowhere to being appointed vice president. I bet the deep state would like Pence as the next president after trump.
 
There you go.....summit, speak "coffee tête-à-tête", canceled. :rolleyes:

Mr. T chickens out. Well, they made everything possible for it not to happen. Was hard to take it serious when even Giuliani, who is Mr. T personal lawyer, was talking about it. Last was slimy Pence saying that NK will end like Libya if they don't agree to a deal.

Well, another Mr. T show ended. He just loves the drama!

Have to ask now lockinlove --> huge progress? :confused:

Oh man. Does this mean Trump will not be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize? :D
 
[
Sorry but no sympathy for Mr. T. He shouldn't have agreed instantly in the first place but he was so itching to show the world the great deal maker he is. :rolleyes: This kind of meetings need to be prepared properly, first at lower level where you establish expectations / potential areas of agreement / no-go areas etc. None of that was done.

The messages from NK only turned sour after the US-SK military exercise went into full speed. Might have been advisable to scale it down a little to show some goodwill to NK like they showed when they released the 3 US citizens. Plus, everyone from Mr. T's team, who felt he / she needs to say some stupid things did so in public, newspapers, TV, etc., including Mr. T. You want to get Kim out of his comfort zone to sit down for talks, you just don't do that.

You do not threaten repeatedly if you want to negotiate. Simple!

he had no choice but to cancel.
No way USA will be made fools of by some country that keeps threatening to cancel.

We do not respond to threats. And I kind of agree. Despite my misgivings with trump.
 
[


he had no choice but to cancel.
No way USA will be made fools of by some country that keeps threatening to cancel.

We do not respond to threats. And I kind of agree. Despite my misgivings with trump.

trumps right hand men, mike pence and john bolton, had a choice to choose their words carefully in tv interviews close to the summit date and not to unnecessarily antagonise the north koreans.

By angering the north koreans the US, whether or not Trump was in on it, have actively undermined all the peace work carried out by the south koreans. If the motivation of the US was to protect south korea and japan from north korean nuclear weapons, then they would have not risked upsetting the north until the summit had taken place.
 
[


he had no choice but to cancel.
No way USA will be made fools of by some country that keeps threatening to cancel.

We do not respond to threats. And I kind of agree. Despite my misgivings with trump.

Sorry but I said from the start when "lock" was praising Mr. T & the possible meeting as "huge" progress that nobody should count chickens early and I got blasted for it. Well, here we are today. :rolleyes:

Months of diligent talks / negotiations of the South Koreans (out of public sight), all that hard work slammed into the gutter by Mr. T and his team. Sorry again but that is the way I see it.

The provocations came first from the US side. Mike Pence confirmed Bolton's statement that NK will end like Libya if they do not agree to a deal. When asked if Bolton's statement was a threat to NK he said: "I think it's more of a fact." Just no discipline. Everyone knows that this was a fragile opening from NK, something you treat with finely tuned positive but still strong statements, yet Mr. T, Bolton, Pence et al went out in public to spread their ideas and new threats what would happen if.... before they even started talking properly to NK.

This if from the NK-SK Panmunjeom Declaration signed in April 2018. A few weeks later the US insists to run their military exercise in the same fashion as they've done in the past years which included planes capable of carrying nuclear bombs flying over the KP. NK always saw the exercises as "war threats", the US knew that very well and could have scaled down their exercise to show some good will but of course Mr. T is not the type to do that.

Capture 1277.webp


I am nearly 100% sure the cancellation has other reasons. IMO, Mr. T simply chickened out because first, they were not prepared for the meeting and second, he realized that he's been played like a "fiddle". He thought the mighty US would "waltz" into Singapore and tell / order Kim what to do over a quick lunch, followed by coffee and another "most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you’ve ever seen". Then return to the US as an international superstar with the Nobel Peace prize following a few months later. Done! "The best deal ever!" :rolleyes:

The reasons he gave in the letter were a welcome excuse, nothing else. After all, NK has used harsher language in the past. But he (or maybe his advisers) saw that China won't sit on the sidelines, he saw that NK won't just simply give up their nukes etc etc. and that he won't get a quick deal. In Mr. T's eyes a defeat, something he can't have. Mr. T is always out for a quick deal, to me he does not seem to have the stamina / willingness / concentration for long negotiations, especially complex ones like the NK issue. There was no agreement there he could simply rip apart like the JPCOA or the Paris Agreement to show a "win" to his base.

So like a 6th-grader he broke up with his "girlfriend" before she did it. Now he can say that he was the one canceling the summit. Repeating the "my button is much bigger than yours" in the letter shows clearly who he is.

To say it with Mr. T's words: "Stay tuned" for more drama! :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Sorry but I said from the start when "lock" was praising Mr. T & the possible meeting as "huge" progress that nobody should count chickens early and I got blasted for it. Well, here we are today. :rolleyes:



So like a 6th-grader he broke up with his "girlfriend" before she did it. Now he can say that he was the one canceling it. Repeating the "my button is much bigger than yours" in the letter shows clearly who he is.

To say it with Mr. T's words: "Stay tuned" for more drama! :rolleyes:

The whole letter though !!! Like a teenager wrote it ! He's the President doesn't he have people who can help him write better letters than that !! It's just not a President sounding letter !
 
The whole letter though !!! Like a teenager wrote it ! He's the President doesn't he have people who can help him write better letters than that !! It's just not a President sounding letter !

As I said 6th-grader. :D

The letter appears like Mr. T was dictating it to somebody in a hurry or maybe in a moment of self-pique as it daunted on him that it won't be all sooooo easy and there was not much time to have it vetted by some professionals, hence it shows his personal level.

According to reports, it took everyone by surprise, so no one saw this coming and no one was involved directly in the decision or the writing of the letter.

Not to mention, that he recklessly endangered the lives of all the journalists (including from the US) who were witnessing the blasting of the NK test site and were still in NK at the moment he released the letter.
 
Last edited:
Absolutely ignorant about demolitions and explosives but to me the destruction of the tunnels and buildings looked
a complete sham.Seen bigger bangs on bonfire night.

I never thought it to be more than a show to make a positive appearance. They only invited hand-picked journalists to witness the event, but no experts who could verify what they are doing.
 
I wonder what is going to happen now, Kim potentially could be the leader for another 50 years. NK is going to look even stranger by then, presuming the rest of the world keeps modernising and technology advances.

This kind of back and forth was to expected, one only has to look at the history of the last 2 - 3 decades. I never thought that now with having the "master deal maker" in charge all would just go soooo smoothly. Jet into Singapore, talk for a few hours, sign a peace agreement, next week NK will be shipping all their nukes out of the country and two weeks later Mr. T gets the Nobel prize.

What I can tell you from my own experience is the Koreans are the best "worst" negotiators, although I only had the "honor" with South Koreans but I assume the North not to be much different. Making a deal with them is tedious and hard work requiring a lot of stamina. I'll try to outline some of it in a few sentences.
First they praise your product to the moon, so you are led to believe there is an easy deal to make only when you arrive in SK for the negotiations they let you sit in the hotel for a day with some excuse, then bring you to a grand meeting room where you again think, wow, they are rolling out the red carpet. Two hours later the boss is still "busy", etc etc. and this is just your first pitch to sell your product. On a big project you expect to have anything from 10 to 20 meetings before you actually put the ink on the paper
It gets much worse when you have the final price negotiations, if you made it through the previous rounds. They mostly lead you to a bare room with the most uncomfortable chairs you have ever seen and if possible no aircon, let you wait for hours without even giving you some water before sending in the "accounting clerk" level to get the first few percent / concessions out of you. Many more follow and by the time you actually have a final draft in your hands, you are totally worn out and just happy to sign anything so you can get away. But it is still not the end as suddenly the boss invites you for dinner and you have to return the next day. Etc. etc., just a short incomplete insight how they negotiate.

Well, what happens next?
- Moon won the election last year on the promise to bring peace to the PK, hence, his political "face" is on the line. So, I would think his team will continue with their hard work to find a dialogue and get to the point where the armistice will be changed into a permanent peace deal.
- Kim will keep his openness to show the world it is not his fault that the summit collapsed, but will have his deputies chewing out some weird statements when he feels like
- Mr. T will have two Big Macs instead of one and grieve about the missed opportunity to get his hands on a Nobel prize (just because he wants to be sooo much better than his predecessor). Plus, he will push the blame to the North Koreans and occasionally take up his "my button is bigger than yours" language when he wants to please his base.

IMO, SK and NK would be better off negotiating between them only and then present the others with the result. The US only has to sign any peace deal since they were the ones signing the armistice in 1953 (I think) and Mr. T would have his moment in the limelight. However, anything final will take years to come to fruition. Again, history shows us how good NK is at delaying anything that will require them to actually do something.
 
Last edited:
I see Trumpy couldn't help himself in that letter, with the obligatory "My shlong is still bigger than yours!" rhetoric :eek2:

Well, seems like it is not over yet. Mr. T rethinking whether he should get back with his "girlfriend". Just the typical drama that we see with everything he touches. Does everyone realize that the "Best Dealmaker" has yet to make a proper deal? It is always "We'll see what happens". :rolleyes:

"We're going to see what happens. We're talking to them now. It was a very nice statement they put out. We'll see what happens. It could even be the 12th. We're talking to them now. They very much want to do it. We'd like to do it."

Is that how a president makes a statement? The same words repeated over and over again. And then you have people like Lindsey Graham adding stupid statements of their own:

"He's going to go back to China, I think, read them the riot act. 'If you want a peaceful solution to the North Korean problem, help me. If you keep playing this game we have played for 30 years, there is going to be a war in your backyard, not ours, and North Korea is going to lose,'. I hope through diplomacy there would be no nuclear North Korea, but if there is going to be a war, it's going to end badly for North Korea,".

Right! Just ask Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam et al how the wars ended for them. And maybe ask then the 10,000's of US parents and families who lost their kids / spouses in all those useless wars. Plus, all very comforting for the 100,000's of South Koreans that will die in the first minutes of any armed conflict on the KP.

And the Chinese will of course get instantly on their knees and beg for forgiveness. Oh yes, as if! :rolleyes:

How much more of this stupidity can they spew out?
 
Last edited:
The whole letter though !!! Like a teenager wrote it ! He's the President doesn't he have people who can help him write better letters than that !! It's just not a President sounding letter !

Well, today it has been confirmed that the letter was personally dictated by Mr. T. Now we know for sure he is indeed on a 6th-grader level. :D
 
and summit back on.

Well, not confirmed yet but as always drama show from Mr. T, changing his mind based on how he farted an hour ago or how the last Big Mac tasted. Totally blindsiding the most important partner in this issue, South Korea.

The funny part is that this is part of his oh so great negotiating skills. Canceling just before the summit like somebody buying a car and turning away to see whether the sales rep will run after them with an improved offer. Confirms again, 6th-grader level.

The "best deal maker ever" desperate to make a deal, not that he has done any significant ones in the past 1.5 years.
 
Last edited:
Well, not confirmed yet but as always drama show from Mr. T, changing his mind based on how he farted an hour ago or how the last Big Mac tasted. Totally blindsiding the most important partner in this issue, South Korea.

The funny part is that this is part of his oh so great negotiating skills. Canceling just before the summit like somebody buying a car and turning away to see whether the sales rep will run after them with an improved offer. Confirms again, 6th-grader level.

The "best deal maker ever" desperate to make a deal, not that he has done any significant ones in the past 1.5 years.

Maybe it’s his strategy.

On a more serious note. There are 1500 children who were separated from their parents when crossing the USA border illegally. They’ve lost track of the children. This policy was implemented by a policy on illegal immigration.

There have been some rumours that some of these kids were released to human traffickers. Which I don’t believe.

Donald trump yesterday tweeted that this was the fault of a Democratic policy. Is this a bold faced lie?If it is. He is more despicable than I thought.

Actually two lies yesterday. He falsely claiming his own aide didn’t give a bg briefing at White House and saying nytimes was fake news about it. When in fact there’s tape and footage about it.
 
Maybe it’s his strategy.

On a more serious note. There are 1500 children who were separated from their parents when crossing the USA border illegally. They’ve lost track of the children. This policy was implemented by a policy on illegal immigration.

There have been some rumours that some of these kids were released to human traffickers. Which I don’t believe.

Donald trump yesterday tweeted that this was the fault of a Democratic policy. Is this a bold faced lie?If it is. He is more despicable than I thought.

Actually two lies yesterday. He falsely claiming his own aide didn’t give a bg briefing at White House and saying nytimes was fake news about it. When in fact there’s tape and footage about it.

It is of course not true. Always somebody else's fault isn't it? He's gone from 4 - 5 lies per day in 2017 to 7 - 8 per day this year or basically lying all the time. :rolleyes:

It is a policy dating back to the Obama years which left the decision at the discretion of the DHS (illegal aliens were classified into three categories, etc. ) but it was to hand over the kids to a close relative/friend only if catch&release is not possible. They did not separate the children like it is happening now. Mr. T stopped the catch&release policy per executive order and now everyone caught crossing the border illegally will be referred for prosecution, even if they are claiming they deserve asylum or have small children. Any parents who are prosecuted as a result will be separated from their children in the process.

So yes, Mr. T clearly lying again.

Just imagine the trauma those little kids go through after weeks of trekking through Central America, exhausted, scared and then they just take them away with no warning (I read some reports how it is done - an agent tells them they have to "interview" the parent to lure them to another room, only to never return them to their mother/father). Now you can blame the parents for taking them on the arduous journey but you would expect a developed nation like the US to show more humanity. But I guess Mr. T just does not want "animals" in the US. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Maybe it’s his strategy.

On a more serious note. There are 1500 children who were separated from their parents when crossing the USA border illegally. They’ve lost track of the children. This policy was implemented by a policy on illegal immigration.

There have been some rumours that some of these kids were released to human traffickers. Which I don’t believe.

Donald trump yesterday tweeted that this was the fault of a Democratic policy. Is this a bold faced lie?If it is. He is more despicable than I thought.

Actually two lies yesterday. He falsely claiming his own aide didn’t give a bg briefing at White House and saying nytimes was fake news about it. When in fact there’s tape and footage about it.

This a part of the exchange between Heidi Heitkamp and Kirstjen Nielsen in one of the Senate hearings:

Heitkamp: "We are begging you, if in fact this is going to be the outcome, where we're separating children, in some cases infants, from their parents, we need to know where these kids are. What you're doing to children when you take them away from their parents is the most trauma impactful thing you can do to a child. So let's be good people and good Americans as it relates to how we treat children."
Nielsen: "I just want to say, I couldn't agree with your concerns more, period. We owe more to these children to protect them. So I'm saying I agree, we've taken steps and we will continue to strengthen what our partners do to protect these children."

To this day, I haven't seen or read reports where anything has been done. To say it with Mr. T's words - "disgraceful".
 
It is of course not true. Always somebody else's fault isn't it? He's gone from 4 - 5 lies per day in 2017 to 7 - 8 per day this year or basically lying all the time. :rolleyes:

It is a policy dating back to the Obama years which left the decision at the discretion of the DHS (illegal aliens were classified into three categories, etc. ) but it was to hand over the kids to a close relative/friend only if catch&release is not possible. They did not separate the children like it is happening now. Mr. T stopped the catch&release policy per executive order and now everyone caught crossing the border illegally will be referred for prosecution, even if they are claiming they deserve asylum or have small children. Any parents who are prosecuted as a result will be separated from their children in the process.

So yes, Mr. T clearly lying again.

Just imagine the trauma those little kids go through after weeks of trekking through Central America, exhausted, scared and then they just take them away with no warning (I read some reports how it is done - an agent tells them they have to "interview" the parent to lure them to another room, only to never return them to their mother/father). Now you can blame the parents for taking them on the arduous journey but you would expect a developed nation like the US to show more humanity. But I guess Mr. T just does not want "animals" in the US. :rolleyes:
I do agree there has to be some discretion when dealing with individual cases, but looking at it from the other angle, using a bunch of kids as leverage to get a sympathetic ear is nothing new, case in point Europe with its influx of 'children' too. Then we also don't fully know the exact reasons they've been brought in or by whom, given that many are undocumented....

And in regards to the Animals comment, it's been grotesquely taken out of context by the media, when in fact he was referring to MS-13 specifically :cool:
 
I do agree there has to be some discretion when dealing with individual cases, but looking at it from the other angle, using a bunch of kids as leverage to get a sympathetic ear is nothing new, case in point Europe with its influx of 'children' too. Then we also don't fully know the exact reasons they've been brought in or by whom, given that many are undocumented....

And in regards to the Animals comment, it's been grotesquely taken out of context by the media, when in fact he was referring to MS-13 specifically :cool:

Sure there are cases where parents / adults use kids / minors / infants to have it easier when claiming asylum. It is still no reason whatsoever to take a small child from her mother, it is just too traumatic for the child who mostly doesn't know the language, where it is etc..

As for the animals comment, read the transcript and you tell me if he was referring to MS-13, in my view not really. For Mr. T any immigrant is bad unless he/she has tons of money or works for peanuts like those on his golf courses with a temporary work visa.

Capture 1282.webp
 
Sure there are cases where parents / adults use kids / minors / infants to have it easier when claiming asylum. It is still no reason whatsoever to take a small child from her mother, it is just too traumatic for the child who mostly doesn't know the language, where it is etc..

As for the animals comment, read the transcript and you tell me if he was referring to MS-13, in my view not really. For Mr. T any immigrant is bad unless he/she has tons of money or works for peanuts like those on his golf courses with a temporary work visa.

View attachment 91477
Well, nothing is ever 100% with Trumpo, with the selective wording when in written dialogue using 'People' for example, however given the context of the talk it is clear to most he's alluding to not only the bad element in illegal migrants, but MS-13 as the focal point....
 
Well, nothing is ever 100% with Trumpo, with the selective wording when in written dialogue using 'People' for example, however given the context of the talk it is clear to most he's alluding to not only the bad element in illegal migrants, but MS-13 as the focal point....

The talk was not focused on MS-13. It was about that ICE does not get access to data unless the imprisoned illegal immigrant has reached a threshold of crimes. Nothing to do with MS-13, it is the general policy. The Sheriff made as single remark that there could be a MS-13 member which she couldn't tell ICE that he is there unless he/she committed some crimes already.

Looking at Mr. T statements regarding immigrants in the past (rapists, criminals, etc) I would side that he didn't mean just MS-13 members.
 
I do agree there has to be some discretion when dealing with individual cases, but looking at it from the other angle, using a bunch of kids as leverage to get a sympathetic ear is nothing new, case in point Europe with its influx of 'children' too. Then we also don't fully know the exact reasons they've been brought in or by whom, given that many are undocumented....

And in regards to the Animals comment, it's been grotesquely taken out of context by the media, when in fact he was referring to MS-13 specifically :cool:


 
He was talking about MS-13 gang members, which part of that shortened clip am I supposed to muse over?

I was agreeing with you so there is nothing to muse over, just putting the actual clip so members can see it for themselves and come to their own conclusion.

The reason I always try and find short "to the point" clips (no matter what the issue) is I figure members don't want to sit through a really long clip.
 
On Assignment on MSNBC: Some good research into the Iran Deal (and its coordinated scrapping by Mr. T) and Black Cube (Israeli security firm investigating H. Weinstein and former Obama officials). Explains a few things.

1. The Israeli raid of known documents and coordination with Mr. T to scrap the Iran deal.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


2. Black Cube trying to find dirt on former Obama officials, according to people in the video on order from quote "Trump people".

Plus, Bolton and Guiliani speaking at MEK gatherings in 2017. FYI, MEK is an Iranian grouping which was designated by the US as a terrorist organization until a few years ago. Hardly anybody in Iran likes them but for Bolton and Guiliani they are the future leaders of Iran.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Let just 50% be true of what is being said in these two videos and it still shows to what length Mr. T has gone to make sure he can scrap the Iran deal and sell it as a political win.
 
Last edited:
On Assignment on MSNBC: Some good research into the Iran Deal (and its coordinated scrapping by Mr. T) and Black Cube (Israeli security firm investigating H. Weinstein and former Obama officials). Explains a few things.

1. The Israeli raid of known documents and coordination with Mr. T to scrap the Iran deal.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


2. Black Cube trying to find dirt on former Obama officials, according to people in the video on order from quote "Trump people".

Plus, Bolton and Guiliani speaking at MEK gatherings in 2017. FYI, MEK is an Iranian grouping which was designated by the US as a terrorist organization until a few years ago. Hardly anybody in Iran likes them but for Bolton and Guiliani they are the future leaders of Iran.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Let just 50% be true of what is being said in these two videos and it still shows to what length Mr. T has gone to make sure he can scrap the Iran deal and sell it as a political win.


witch hunt!
 
Oh somebody is desperate to have that meeting or maybe Nobel just won't get out of his head. :rolleyes:

And of course empty promises of immense riches for NK coming from the liar-in-chief. The smiling pic is after the crowd shouts "Nobel", Mr. T thinking "oh yes, give it to ME, I want it, I want it! :D

Capture 1284.webp
Capture 1286 (400x305).webp


As for the "ME", didn't know that Memorial Day has been changed to "ME Day". Does anyone still doubt that all Mr. T cares about is himself? And the last word with exclamation mark. :rolleyes: What can be "Nice!" when a family / country mourns / remembers their fallen soldiers?

And women unemployment in brackets, not important or what?

Capture 1285.webp


Just for comparison, here's what Obama said yesterday.

Capture 1287.webp
 
Last edited:
Oh somebody is desperate to have that meeting or maybe Nobel just won't get out of his head. :rolleyes:

And of course empty promises of immense riches for NK coming from the liar-in-chief. The smiling pic is after the crowd shouts "Nobel", Mr. T thinking "oh yes, give it to ME, I want it, I want it! :D

As for the "ME", didn't know that Memorial Day has been changed to "ME Day". Does anyone still doubt that all Mr. T cares about is himself? And the last word with exclamation mark. :rolleyes: What can be "Nice!" when a family / country mourns / remembers their fallen soldiers?

And women unemployment in brackets, not important or what?


Just for comparison, here's what Obama said yesterday.

so it's back on?
i'm dizzy.
and can't keep up.
wonder what tomorrow will bring.
 
Oh somebody is desperate to have that meeting or maybe Nobel just won't get out of his head. :rolleyes:

And of course empty promises of immense riches for NK coming from the liar-in-chief. The smiling pic is after the crowd shouts "Nobel", Mr. T thinking "oh yes, give it to ME, I want it, I want it! :D

View attachment 91558View attachment 91561

As for the "ME", didn't know that Memorial Day has been changed to "ME Day". Does anyone still doubt that all Mr. T cares about is himself? And the last word with exclamation mark. :rolleyes: What can be "Nice!" when a family / country mourns / remembers their fallen soldiers?

And women unemployment in brackets, not important or what?

View attachment 91559

Just for comparison, here's what Obama said yesterday.

View attachment 91562

Obama's quotes make him sound like a good guy, but during his time as president he authorized hundreds of drone strikes which murdered at least 324 civilians in the US war on terror. It could be argued that since clinton [a democrat] the USA [with the uk in tow] has been carrying out wars of terror, dressed up as liberal intervention, we're the good guys etc.. Genuine diplomacy hasn't been practised by the US for a long time, they haven't felt they needed it because cruise missiles were far better at achieving their aims.

This summit with North Korea will be very interesting because I don't remember previous talks having this much publicity and with the eyes of the world watching, if there is no deal reached how will the western mainstream press spin it to blame NK and China, or will they blame Trump if nothing is achieved.
 
Last edited:
Obama's quotes make him sound like a good guy, but during his time as president he authorized hundreds of drone strikes which murdered at least 324 civilians in the US war on terror. It could be argued that since clinton [a democrat] the USA [with the uk in tow] has been carrying out wars of terror, dressed up as liberal intervention, we're the good guys etc.. Genuine diplomacy hasn't been practised by the US for a long time, they haven't felt they needed it because cruise missiles were far better at achieving their aims.

This summit with North Korea will be very interesting because I don't remember previous talks having this much publicity and with the eyes of the world watching, if there is no deal reached how will the western mainstream press spin it to blame NK and China, or will they blame Trump if nothing is achieved.

About 3x the amount of civilians were killed in Mr. T's first year alone, in the very same wars. Hence, no US president is an angel on that one. Drone strike or guided missiles from a plane 6 miles in the air or a warship 100's of miles away, does it make a difference?

But I agree, the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality of the US governments in the past 2 decades is questionable at best, especially since none of the countries ever attacked the US. And hardly any of the US actions were covered by a UN resolution, hence, breaking international law. But I guess, they don't have to care since they have the most powerful army in the world, according to Mr. T. What is really funny though is the fact that they didn't win any of the last wars they started in now 6 decades. You would think that "oh so powerful" army would have a "walk in the park" in any conflict. Instead it is an endless loss of life and waste of money and resources, but, i guess, it keeps the arms lobby happy. :rolleyes:

There is in the meantime so much hype and drama around that summit (as expected with Mr. T) that you could almost guarantee that nothing is going to come out of it other than some "we made great progress" statements. The hard work will still be on South-Korea's part to hammer out the finer details of a potential deal. I rather doubt that letting Mr. T, Bolton, Pompeo et al handle it will lead to a happy end.
 
Last edited:
About 3x the amount of civilians were killed in Mr. T's first year alone, in the very same wars. Hence, no US president is an angel on that one. Drone strike or guided missiles from a plane 6 miles in the air or a warship 100's of miles away, does it make a difference?

But I agree, the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality of the US governments in the past 2 decades is questionable at best, especially since none of the countries ever attacked the US. And hardly any of the US actions were covered by a UN resolution, hence, breaking international law. But I guess, they don't have to care since they have the most powerful army in the world, according to Mr. T. What is really funny though is the fact that they didn't win any of the last wars they started in now 6 decades. You would think that "oh so powerful" army would have a "walk in the park" in any conflict. Instead it is an endless loss of life and waste of money and resources, but, i guess, it keeps the arms lobby happy. :rolleyes:

There is in the meantime so much hype and drama around that summit (as expected with Mr. T) that you could almost guarantee that nothing is going to come out of it other than some "we made great progress" statements. The hard work will still be on South-Korea's part to hammer out the finer details of a potential deal. I rather doubt that letting Mr. T, Bolton, Pompeo et al handle it will lead to a happy end.

Yes I think cruise missiles and drone strikes are the same, personally I just feel more it is more galling for somebody [obama] to go around making human rights speeches when their decisions in office have led directly to deaths of innocent people.

The ISIS/AL QAEDA terrorists that the strikes are aimed at, have been indoctrinated by extreme religious teachers, so the western govts and their 'partners' in the middle east should have cut it off at source back in the 80's, instead bin laden and his fighters were aided to attack the russians in afghanistan who were propping up a secular govt, and now fast forward 25 years a similar strategy has been employed in libya and syria, with men holding extreme beliefs given arms by the west to attack regimes/govts the west doesn't like and wants removed.

I think Mr Trump is a let down, somebody with a big enough character was needed in order to change the US foreign policies, and say why are we wasting our money and soldier's lives in afghanistan? why are we giving murderous rebels weapons and training to fight in syria?

I still have a tiny bit of hope despite his bellicose speeches and pronouncements that he is actually holding back the more hawkish elements in the US, for instance the two cruise missile strikes he authorized on syria did not kill that many syrian personnel unlike the airstrikes under obama in 2016 that killed 100 syrian troops by 'mistake'.

I think the deep state/neo cons have been concerned that Trump would make concessions with NK that they didn't agree with, as after the first announcement of a peace meeting, I noticed there were quite a few articles written in the US against the meeting taking place at all.
 
Last edited:
Yes I think cruise missiles and drone strikes are the same, personally I just feel more it is more galling for somebody [obama] to go around making human rights speeches when their decisions in office have led directly to deaths of innocent people.

The ISIS/AL QAEDA terrorists that the strikes are aimed at, have been indoctrinated by extreme religious teachers, so the western govts and their 'partners' in the middle east should have cut it off at source back in the 80's, instead bin laden and his fighters were aided to attack the russians in afghanistan who were propping up a secular govt, and now fast forward 25 years a similar strategy has been employed in libya and syria, with men holding extreme beliefs given arms by the west to attack regimes/govts the west doesn't like and wants removed.

I think Mr Trump is a let down, somebody with a big enough character was needed in order to change the US foreign policies, and say why are we wasting our money and soldier's lives in afghanistan? why are we giving murderous rebels weapons and training to fight in syria?

I still have a tiny bit of hope despite his bellicose speeches and pronouncements that he is actually holding back the more hawkish elements in the US, for instance the two cruise missile strikes he authorized on syria did not kill that many syrian personnel unlike the airstrikes under obama in 2016 that killed 100 syrian troops by 'mistake'.

I think the deep state/neo cons have been concerned that Trump would make concessions with NK that they didn't agree with, as after the first announcement of a peace meeting, I noticed there were quite a few articles written in the US against the meeting taking place at all.

Collateral damage is the term used, I think. No doubt, not the finest achievements of Obama, nor of any other president. However, at least he kept the last word to himself, allowing strikes only after his approval to at least try and limit civilian casualties.. That was changed under Mr. T and the decisions are now made in the field at the will of the commanding officers, which explains the sharp rise in civilian deaths under Mr. T.

You can go back to the time of the Roman Empire up to the present US wars and count the dozens of powers that tried to gain control of the region, yet all failed. The US has been involved only in the last decades as the oil rich region became a strategic target. And they messed around in all directions be it supporting the Taliban against the Russians or Saddam or even the Iranians, only to change their attitude at will. What was one day a friend became an enemy over night.

The entire region would be best left to its own destiny and it was indeed all contained regionally until the British (who pulled back after Israel was founded) and later the US got involved. For millennia, powerful clans / tribes have been the driving forces in the region and none of them will just agree to give up control of their territory. No aggressor, be it the US with some naive and willing allies or any other country, will be successful in finding a solution that will please everyone, an armed conflict is actually the worst option, however, the most preferred option for the US it seems.
 
While it is sad that innocent's have died.It is the intention of these terrorist group's to make the civilian populace target's and shield's.This is not a guess it is a fact that they use people as human shield's.

And it is a fact that when engaging the enemy from distance there will be damage and injury to the people in the area of attack.It can be looked at like an attempt to damage the enemy where he lives.Or it can be focused on as a intentional attack on the innocent people of a country we are trying to help and blown out of context and any real understanding of warfare in general?At any rate we were trying to help under Obama and under The Orange Moola we do nada. And if we do something he want's a pat on the back like ha actually did something.

I hope that our intention's have not been mis-understood because of the fact that it appear's that it is not what we do! But how we do it! The military is the first to admit mistake's.And they happen and it is not intentional but a fact of war.

N. Korea is really starting to present itself as a lost child in a world of action's and re-action's. And she is not only lost but badly RUN from a political and military stand point.Too much look at me!We have it all the armies and the bomb's and the man power.But they don't have any brain's on what they need to do to get the rest of the world to stop thinking of them as bad boy's with a really big stick.
Moon is power mad and a freak of unusual order.He will not be satisfied until the US does what he want's and gives into his temper tantrum's and allow's him to bully the free world.This will not happen.Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff
 
Moon is power mad and a freak of unusual order.He will not be satisfied until the US does what he want's and gives into his temper tantrum's and allow's him to bully the free world.This will not happen.Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

Do you mean Kim jong un, I wouldn't have thought the south korean president [moon] was a freak of unusual order [I do like that phrase though :cool:]
 
Collateral damage is the term used, I think. No doubt, not the finest achievements of Obama, nor of any other president. However, at least he kept the last word to himself, allowing strikes only after his approval to at least try and limit civilian casualties.. That was changed under Mr. T and the decisions are now made in the field at the will of the commanding officers, which explains the sharp rise in civilian deaths under Mr. T.

You can go back to the time of the Roman Empire up to the present US wars and count the dozens of powers that tried to gain control of the region, yet all failed. The US has been involved only in the last decades as the oil rich region became a strategic target. And they messed around in all directions be it supporting the Taliban against the Russians or Saddam or even the Iranians, only to change their attitude at will. What was one day a friend became an enemy over night.

The entire region would be best left to its own destiny and it was indeed all contained regionally until the British (who pulled back after Israel was founded) and later the US got involved. For millennia, powerful clans / tribes have been the driving forces in the region and none of them will just agree to give up control of their territory. No aggressor, be it the US with some naive and willing allies or any other country, will be successful in finding a solution that will please everyone, an armed conflict is actually the worst option, however, the most preferred option for the US it seems.

I didn't know Trump had changed the command chain and no longer makes the final decision on drone strikes
I find that interesting as when the first cruise missile attack on syria by the US was authorized by Trump [on the dubious basis of the syrian army carrying out a chemical attack with the eyes of the world watching] I think a few syrian men died and it struck me at that point Trump had crossed the rubicon and was now effectively, morally a murderer as he made the decision to fire the missiles that killed other human beings.

I wondered how that would affect a man's conscience, one morning he wakes up as the new president of america with a beautiful wife and family, hotels and businesses all round the world, [albeit probably has done a few dodgy things in business over the years but not capital crimes] but then another morning he wakes up and he is now a murderer, everything has changed from that point on psychologically if he has any conscience. [or is not self delusional?]

It does make me wonder, if he has deliberately absolved himself of those drone strike decisions, that maybe he has a sense of 'mortal sin' and does not wish to be the one pressing the trigger.

I appreciate that you dislike Trump and think he is fundamentally bad, and I have moved more towards that position myself, however If Trump is willing to make real concessions in the peace summit a good agreement could come from it that actually benefits mankind.
 
While it is sad that innocent's have died.It is the intention of these terrorist group's to make the civilian populace target's and shield's.This is not a guess it is a fact that they use people as human shield's.

And it is a fact that when engaging the enemy from distance there will be damage and injury to the people in the area of attack.It can be looked at like an attempt to damage the enemy where he lives.Or it can be focused on as a intentional attack on the innocent people of a country we are trying to help and blown out of context and any real understanding of warfare in general?At any rate we were trying to help under Obama and under The Orange Moola we do nada. And if we do something he want's a pat on the back like ha actually did something.

I hope that our intention's have not been mis-understood because of the fact that it appear's that it is not what we do! But how we do it! The military is the first to admit mistake's.And they happen and it is not intentional but a fact of war.

N. Korea is really starting to present itself as a lost child in a world of action's and re-action's. And she is not only lost but badly RUN from a political and military stand point.Too much look at me!We have it all the armies and the bomb's and the man power.But they don't have any brain's on what they need to do to get the rest of the world to stop thinking of them as bad boy's with a really big stick.
Moon is power mad and a freak of unusual order.He will not be satisfied until the US does what he want's and gives into his temper tantrum's and allow's him to bully the free world.This will not happen.Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

The difference between Obama and Mr. T is as following:

- Obama had the last word on the drone strikes and would approve them on a case to case basis. This was certainly not always to the military's liking as it prolonged their response time to a potential thread but it minimized collateral damage
- Mr. T gave the power to decide to the commanders in the field because he does not bother about collateral damage. After all he called on his campaign for the families of terrorists to be killed. I read yesterday a report where he was shown once a drone strike and the operator waited until the target moved away from the housing area where his family and other civilians were staying. Mr. T asked: "Why did you wait?" That thinking alone is against all possible international conventions that you can think off.

As for North Korea, let me point to one example, slightly off-topic but it shows what happens when the US promises riches and wealth to a country for aligning themselves with the US. For some of us, "Prague Spring" might call back some memories of 1968, for most it means the season of spring in Prague. However, at the time the tensions were high with over 0.5 Million Soviet and Eastern bloc troops marching into Czechoslovakia to quash an opening and liberalization of the country.

At the time, the only country of the Warsaw Pact that refused to send its troops was Romania, which was led by the infamous Ceaucescu, putting the small country in direct confrontation with the USSR. However, this was so much welcomed by the West and the following years billions of dollars were pouring into country, mostly from the US, as they saw they could have an ally in the midst of the Eastern bloc. Best example is that the country had one of the very few direct commercial flights from an Eastern bloc country to the US. Ceaucescu was hailed as a visionary and in one of his speeches from that time he said pretty much the same words: "Our country will experience new riches and wealth....".

However, hardly any of that money reached the population, in contrary Ceaucescu used it to build up the infamous "Securitate", plus a regime of control and oppression that would lead the population to starvation in the '80's. He had a vision to transform the country into an industrial powerhouse, which in itself is not a bad thing but the way he did it was completely wrong. His best known project is the palace in Bucharest which is the largest civilian building in the world. For years, the US and its allies closed their eyes and everything else as long as Ceacescu was threading to the beat given by them.

FYI, Romania is or better, was one of the very few countries on this planet which could have been totally self-sufficient as the country had every natural resource needed, access to the sea etc. At the end of the "promised riches" there was hardly anything left of the country.

So, every time I hear an US president promising "riches and wealth" to a country, I am rather skeptical. :rolleyes:

PS. I was born in 1968 in Romania and emigrated in 1984, hence, I experienced personally what the "new riches and wealth" meant. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
It does seem odd that he can promise NK riches and wealth when the US is trillions of dollars in debt, more likely they'll soon be up to their eyes in debt with loans from the IMF. He is going to have to make real concessions to get a deal with the chinese, which is what this meeting basically comes down to.

Just had a look at romania on the map, its quite a big country, I think I remembered from WW2 they allied with germany otherwise they would have been invaded and Hitler took their oil to fuel his tanks.
 
Last edited:
I didn't know Trump had changed the command chain and no longer makes the final decision on drone strikes
I find that interesting as when the first cruise missile attack on syria by the US was authorized by Trump [on the dubious basis of the syrian army carrying out a chemical attack with the eyes of the world watching] I think a few syrian men died and it struck me at that point Trump had crossed the rubicon and was now effectively, morally a murderer as he made the decision to fire the missiles that killed other human beings.

I wondered how that would affect a man's conscience, one morning he wakes up as the new president of america with a beautiful wife and family, hotels and businesses all round the world, [albeit probably has done a few dodgy things in business over the years but not capital crimes] but then another morning he wakes up and he is now a murderer, everything has changed from that point on psychologically if he has any conscience. [or is not self delusional?]

It does make me wonder, if he has deliberately absolved himself of those drone strike decisions, that maybe he has a sense of 'mortal sin' and does not wish to be the one pressing the trigger.

I appreciate that you dislike Trump and think he is fundamentally bad, and I have moved more towards that position myself, however If Trump is willing to make real concessions in the peace summit a good agreement could come from it that actually benefits mankind.

Pretty clear that Mr. T will never end on my Twitter friends list but I stated in a previous post that I will take my hat off if he, and by that I mean by his own actions and words, manages to find a lasting resolution of the KP issue. But the way I see it the hard work will be done by South-Korea and others while Mr. T's part will be to fly in for some photo-OP's and signing ceremonies as well as creating drama and suspension (gotta have a good viewer rating) along the way.
 
It does seem odd that he can promise NK riches and wealth when the US is trillions of dollars in debt, more likely they'll soon be up to their eyes in debt with loans from the IMF. He is going to have to make real concessions to get a deal with the chinese, which is what this meeting basically comes down to.

Exactly what happened to Romania, albeit the loans came to a large part directly from the US. Gotta "compliment" Ceaucescu in this respect because by the time he was driven from office in 1989 the country was debt-free. The price the population paid though was immense.

Don't forget Russia in the NK equation. They won't just stand on the sidelines. But yes, the main player in the background is China.
 
Pretty clear that Mr. T will never end on my Twitter friends list but I stated in a previous post that I will take my hat off if he, and by that I mean by his own actions and words, manages to find a lasting resolution of the KP issue. But the way I see it the hard work will be done by South-Korea and others while Mr. T's part will be to fly in for some photo-OP's and signing ceremonies as well as creating drama and suspension (gotta have a good viewer rating) along the way.

A deal is there to be done, can the greatest deal maker pull it off, seriously though I am definitely moving towards the the dislike Trump camp, [75% there now] but I am willing to give it a bit longer, cause if he stands again for a 2nd term during the campaign he will come out with a lot of BS and flannel about being the greatest this and that.
 
Just had a look at romania on the map, its quite a big country, I think I remembered from WW2 they allied with germany otherwise they would have been invaded and Hitler took their oil to fuel his tanks.

Not that big really, population is about a quarter of Germany.

In WWII they first allied with Germany before jumping ship on 23rd August 1944 to side with the Russians. Result was that at the end of the war the 0.5 Million Germans (mostly in the part of the Romania called Transylvania) were seen as the root cause why Romania allied with Hitler at the beginning of WWII and hence, the root cause of all evil.
All Germans from Romania, aged 18 - 55, were deported to Russian labor camps in Siberia. Plus, all property and houses, were confiscated by the uprising Communist government. The remaining Germans (kids and old folks) had to leave the houses with one spoon, one fork, one knife, one pot etc (you get the picture) and were "deported" inside Romania to work as unpaid laborers for Romanians.

My mother and here family (2 sisters and grandparents) lived in a chicken shed for a few years in a town 50 km away from home. Only after 1950 were they allowed to return home, where they found the house ransacked and half-demolished. Her father was KIA and her mother returned in 1952 from Russia, where she survived 7 Siberian winters in a dug-out earth-hole. She was lucky that she was a cook, hence, she didn't have to work in the mine where the death rate was 80 - 90%. If overworking and the cold was not killing the people, it was typhoid and other diseases.

"Fun" fact is that more males died than females for the simple reason that they often traded their daily bread rations for vodka and cigarettes while women were smarter and made sure they eat the little food they were getting.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Accredited Casinos

Read about our rating system and how it's done.
Back
Top