North Korea and US politics

[mack341]

I wrote it actually wrongly. It is not a transcript, it is only a memo. So there might not be even everything included that was discussed. As I said, the "sharpied" version.

Mack, the US constitution is very clear on what you can do regarding getting info on opponents! There is no doubt, nor force feeding.

let's have it 'all' out in the open, I'm for that but it has to be forensic, not this low grade, partisan, witch hunt stuff, and then like the mueller hearing he point blank refused to answer basic questions put to him, that's not acceptable if you're trying to be even handed.

 

[Harry_BKK]

well let's have it 'all' out in the open, I'm for that but it has to be forensic, not this low grade witch hunt stuff, and then like the mueller hearing he point blank refused to answer basic questions put to him, that's not acceptable if you're trying to be even handed.

Sure, if there is anything then Biden/Biden Jr should be investigated.

But then, maybe they should also investigate e.g. Ivanka/Jared. The first got miraculously a ton of trademarks approved in China (among other stuff) and Jared somehow at the last moment got over $500 million from the Saudis (routed through strawman companies) for his 666 Tower (don't remember the name) in New York.

But, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter in Mr T's case whether Biden did something wrong. The constitution simply does not allow anyone to solicit help from a foreign government.

 

[slotplayer]

If the progressive left intents on impeaching the Donald then they better make a clear and simple case the voting public can understand, otherwise it will back fire on them.

 

[mack341]

I agree it's not right to solicit in this situation, but I'll have to re-read the memo to see that, when I scan read it, I didn't see the actual 'solicit'. It was a bit cringey, the whole conversation but it could be said given their relative positions and vast differences in power, trump wasn't unduly unkind to Zelensky, that was my impression I took. A mobster approach would be far more blunt I'd expect, there is also the slight language barrier, how people not speaking their native tongue interpret words, this could also play a part in how the conversation went.

But why trump sought dirt on biden etc... is beyond me, he must feel joe is a real contender in the 2020 race, I can understand the interest in 'crowdstrike' but not biden's son, it's low grade tittle tattle stuff most likely and not something a president should be interested in.

 

[slotplayer]

I agree it's not right to solicit in this situation, but I'll have to re-read the memo to see that, when I scan read it, I didn't see the actual 'solicit'. It was a bit cringey, the whole conversation but it could be said given their relative positions and vast differences in power, trump wasn't unduly unkind to Zelensky, that was my impression I took. A mobster approach would be far more blunt I'd expect, there is also the slight language barrier, how people not speaking their native tongue interpret words, this could also play a part in how the conversation went.

But why trump sought dirt on biden etc... is beyond me, he must feel joe is a real contender in the 2020 race, I can understand the interest in 'crowdstrike' but not biden's son, it's low grade tittle tattle stuff most likely and not something a president should be interested in.

Maybe "T" wanted opo at the time,. but Biden isn't going anywhere. He's already dropping in the polls. The field is going to narrow and during the next debate he'll have more time and more questions, his bumbling gaffs will only be amplified.

Warren is going to be the nominee and when she's on stage during the presidential debate(s) and if she tries to sell her socialistic policies to the America people she is going to get Lord Donald re-elected.

 

[Steviedoo]

Maybe "T" wanted opo at the time,. but Biden isn't going anywhere. He's already dropping in the polls. The field is going to narrow and during the next debate he'll have more time and more questions, his bumbling gaffs will only be amplified.

Warren is going to be the nominee and when she's on stage during the presidential debate(s) and if she tries to sell her socialistic policies to the America people she is going to get Lord Donald re-elected.

i hope he gets re elected.

then we can all see what a gift he's been to the USA.

 

[vorcirion]

I'll have to re-read it, the transcript , and watch tucker's show etc.. tonight

It could be said his rivals or opposition in the establishment used the FBI/CIA agency to go after him in 2016 etc...which is what barr is supposedly trying to investigate.

Much as you might not believe it, I am open minded to finding fault but I'm not going to jump to the conclusions the anti trump msm is trying to force feed me, it's too early, there could be fault on both sides or deeper than just biden's son. I don't think giuliani is a great advocate for trump, as he comes across slippery and not straightforward and candid, he's seems to be more of a politician than having a great legal mind.

Yeah you're one of the right-wingers who is actually open minded enough...which I'm happy about! And you do rely on facts...often at least Can actually have a normal debate about things!

 

[vorcirion]

Thanks Giuliani! Please keep talking.

 

[vorcirion]

Any guesses how long it takes for Giuliani to get his own laywer? I'm guessing around 3 weeks.

 

[Harry_BKK]

well 'crowd strike' was mentioned in that call, isn't that something barr is looking into?

Yeah, Crowdstrike is a wet dream of conspiracy theorists.

And Mr T typically fishing for anything he can get.

Crowdstrike was the security firm (which has worked with the US government for quite some time) that found out that the DNC server was hacked by the Russians. One of the company's bosses is an ex-Russsian but now US citizen. He is also on the Atlantic Council, which in turn has received a donation from a Ukrainian billionaire.

So perfect fodder for Mr T to say: "But look over there!"

And for his supporters trying to turn it into something that they can spin and peddle around. Nothing new, simply the same conman stuff that is always associated with Mr T.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I agree it's not right to solicit in this situation, but I'll have to re-read the memo to see that, when I scan read it, I didn't see the actual 'solicit'. It was a bit cringey, the whole conversation but it could be said given their relative positions and vast differences in power, trump wasn't unduly unkind to Zelensky, that was my impression I took. A mobster approach would be far more blunt I'd expect, there is also the slight language barrier, how people not speaking their native tongue interpret words, this could also play a part in how the conversation went.

But why trump sought dirt on biden etc... is beyond me, he must feel joe is a real contender in the 2020 race, I can understand the interest in 'crowdstrike' but not biden's son, it's low grade tittle tattle stuff most likely and not something a president should be interested in.

I can assure you that the Ukrainian president speaks better English and has a deeper understanding of the language than Mr T, and that by a mile. ....I have been in Ukraine dozens of times and most of the younger generation speaks perfectly English.

As for mobster approach:

- one week before the call, Mr T is putting a hold on $250 or $400 million of defence aid (both numbers circulate) that Congress mandated to be given to Ukraine. He did not properly inform Congress in any way when and why.
- Ukraine has been waiting anxiously to receive that aid, so suddenly hearing that it is on hold will make them worried
- Then Mr T calls, covered up as a congratulatory call for the election win (4 MONTHS AFTER THE ELECTION) and highlights how much the US is doing and will do but that he needs reciprocity
- Then, he says: "We need you to do us a favour"

Mack, that is extorsion, simply and clear....done underhanded to preserve plausible deniability --> the exact MOB tactic.

What nobody says is that the military aid to Ukraine is not a gift. They have to spend in on US weaponry just like the Israelis.

And BTW, one of Mr T's slandering sentences in the call is that the EU does nothing or very little for Ukraine. Fact is the EU has given more monetary aid to Ukraine than the US. Plus, both presidents forget who negotiated to help Ukraine, read up on Minsk Protocol and Minsk II. The at the time Republican US Congress wanted to go in with full armoury and the EU did not want a military built-up for obvious reasons. While not perfect, the agreements gave the country a breather in a rather perilous period.

 

[mack341]

I can assure you that the Ukrainian president speaks better English and has a deeper understanding of the language than Mr T, and that by a mile. ....I have been in Ukraine dozens of times and most of the younger generation speaks perfectly English.

As for mobster approach:

- one week before the call, Mr T is putting a hold on $250 or $400 million of defence aid (both numbers circulate) that Congress mandated to be given to Ukraine. He did not properly inform Congress in any way when and why.
- Ukraine has been waiting anxiously to receive that aid, so suddenly hearing that it is on hold will make them worried
- Then Mr T calls, covered up as a congratulatory call for the election win (4 MONTHS AFTER THE ELECTION) and highlights how much the US is doing and will do but that he needs reciprocity
- Then, he says: "We need you to do us a favour"

Mack, that is extorsion, simply and clear....done underhanded to preserve plausible deniability --> the exact MOB tactic.

What nobody says is that the military aid to Ukraine is not a gift. They have to spend in on US weaponry just like the Israelis.

And BTW, one of Mr T's slandering sentences in the call is that the EU does nothing or very little for Ukraine. Fact is the EU has given more monetary aid to Ukraine than the US. Plus, both presidents forget who negotiated to help Ukraine, read up on Minsk Protocol and Minsk II. The at the time Republican US Congress wanted to go in with full armoury and the EU did not want a military built-up for obvious reasons. While not perfect, the agreements gave the country a breather in a rather perilous period.

Harry I probably didn't put that the right way, it sounded like I was denigrating non native speakers of english like this president, but after the part you highlighted in bold I wrote " this could also play a part in how the conversation went. " I was meaning in the two way sense, the conversation came across to me as if trump thought zelensky may not understand english well [even though he probably does have excellent english], spelling out things rather than just a flowing conversation.

There's not actually much detail too, so it's either been edited out or trump assumes zelensky knows all about the things, crowdstrike etc...

When trump specifically brings that up, in the following paragraph where zelensky replies, he doesn't say anything in relation to what trump just said, which seems a bit odd to me, ' the server, they say ukraine has it' why wouldn't zelensky reply to that? I sense bill barr has snipped out stuff.

 

[slotplayer]

Harry I probably didn't put that the right way, it sounded like I was denigrating non native speakers of english like this president, but after the part you highlighted in bold I wrote " this could also play a part in how the conversation went. " I was meaning in the two way sense, the conversation came across to me as if trump thought zelensky may not understand english well [even though he probably does have excellent english], spelling out things rather than just a flowing conversation.

There's not actually much detail too, so it's either been edited out or trump assumes zelensky knows all about the things, crowdstrike etc...

When trump specifically brings that up, in the following paragraph where zelensky replies, he doesn't say anything in relation to what trump just said, which seems a bit odd to me, ' the server, they say ukraine has it' why wouldn't zelensky reply to that? I sense bill barr has snipped out stuff.

did you watch the press conference with zelensky?

 

[mack341]

did you watch the press conference with zelensky?

No, not yet, and haven't watched tucker, lou and laura's last night's shows...so far giuliani hasn't impressed me massively but I guess he could have a trick up his sleeve which he'll produce at the last moment. It's not so much that I feel this was a massive misdemeanour, probably a 6/10 on the naughty scale but the press and dems will try to blow it up to be a 9/10, and it's going to be a circus and a headache for months I think, can't see how Donald can nip it in the bud, unless biden's son has been up to no good and it can be proved by barr or the fbi etc...but it seems all trump has atm is a pumped up rudy by his side, trying to help out.

Old bill o'reilly said something interesting on his youtube show the other week, that republican voters could start to feel trump fatigue, from all these dramas that keep occuring, regardless of whether trump is in the wrong or on the receiving end of bias treatment, it still starts to grate, and then voters just want a change to stop all the daily hysteria, there could be some truth in that.

 

[mack341]

The shep smith and tucker carlson crossing of swords was lively, with their respective guests/legal experts, judge napolitano and Joe diGenova not agreeing regarding this ukraine incident:

 

[slotplayer]

No, not yet, and haven't watched tucker, lou and laura's last night's shows...so far giuliani hasn't impressed me massively but I guess he could have a trick up his sleeve which he'll produce at the last moment. It's not so much that I feel this was a massive misdemeanour, probably a 6/10 on the naughty scale but the press and dems will try to blow it up to be a 9/10, and it's going to be a circus and a headache for months I think, can't see how Donald can nip it in the bud, unless biden's son has been up to no good and it can be proved by barr or the fbi etc...but it seems all trump has atm is a pumped up rudy by his side, trying to help out.

Old bill o'reilly said something interesting on his youtube show the other week, that republican voters could start to feel trump fatigue, from all these dramas that keep occuring, regardless of whether trump is in the wrong or on the receiving end of bias treatment, it still starts to grate, and then voters just want a change to stop all the daily hysteria, there could be some truth in that.

I posted months ago there was a Coup d'état underway to dethrone Trump because its the only way the Dems can win. This might stick.

What doesn't look good for Donald is moving transcripts with world leaders to a more secure server. (sounds like Hillary with the private email server). Could be because there was all the leaking to the press by Obama hold overs. Remember that?

I had the same conclusion Bill did, does the country really want another 4 years of the daily drama?

I don't pay much attention to Rudy, he's lost more than a step.

I saw the Joe diGenova segment on tucker and as soon I heard him use the word "fool" I knew it would cause a dust up.

 

[mack341]

It must be frustrating to have gone out and voted trump, be excited when he wins the presidency and looking forward to change, but then the dems, media etc.. act everyday as 'spoilers', with relentless personal attacks and accusations. So what should've been four years of feeling optimistic and positive has been turned into a negative experience or definitely had the shine taken off it.

I think tucker said last night, 'argue trump on policy' but the left don't, won't or can't do it, so instead try to create hysteria and soap opera politics at every opportunity regarding side issues, like stormy daniels etc...

It very much reminds me of brexit, what felt great when the result was announced has been ruined by the spoilers in the media and parliament, whose failed liberal policies motivated people to vote for brexit in the first place, similar to trump, the failings of both republican and democrat presidents/govts led to him winning and easily beating established politicians. The media sniffily refer to it as populist, as if having policies the majority of the public actually support is a bad thing.

Boris johnson is now seen as a threat to the liberal establishment in the UK, as unlike Theresa May he's starting to talk with determination about us leaving the EU, and then surprise surprise just like trump, the personal attacks and slur stories increase in the press and on tv news programmes, to try and weaken and undermine him. The exact same pattern as Trump, going through his past searching for dirt, that's not to say bojo and trump are without fault, but the debate should be centred on policy.

 

[vorcirion]

It must be frustrating to have gone out and voted trump, be excited when he wins the presidency and looking forward to change, but then the dems, media etc.. act everyday as 'spoilers', with relentless personal attacks and accusations. So what should've been four years of feeling optimistic and positive has been turned into a negative experience or definitely had the shine taken off it.

I think tucker said last night, 'argue trump on policy' but the left don't, won't or can't do it, so instead try to create hysteria and soap opera politics at every opportunity regarding side issues, like stormy daniels etc...

It very much reminds me of brexit, what felt great when the result was announced has been ruined by the spoilers in the media and parliament, whose failed liberal policies motivated people to vote for brexit in the first place, similar to trump, the failings of both republican and democrat presidents/govts led to him winning and easily beating established politicians. The media sniffily refer to it as populist, as if having policies the majority of the public actually support is a bad thing.

Boris johnson is now seen as a threat to the liberal establishment in the UK, as unlike Theresa May he's starting to talk with determination about us leaving the EU, and then surprise surprise just like trump, the personal attacks and slur stories increase in the press and on tv news programmes, to try and weaken and undermine him. The exact same pattern as Trump, going through his past searching for dirt, that's not to say bojo and trump are without fault, but the debate should be centred on policy.

I take that as you favor criminals. You don't mind criminal behaviour as long as it's in your benefit.

Trump can only blame himself on all of this.

As for this criminal's (Trump's) positions...could you tell me what policies he favors and the majority of americans favor? He's going against the majority on taxes, healthcare, gun policy and climate change at least. Not sure how it goes in immigration, but the majority oppose his wall plans at least.

He was elected by the minority 46,1% (Trump) vs 48,2% (Clinton). He has never reached 50% approval in polls.
At least in Brexit vote leavers won with a majority. Good luck with that.

 

[Steviedoo]

the fantasy of Trump being a good guy is amazing on this thread.

Now we’re calling it a coup d’état. But nothing will stick because well you know...cuz it never does. I mean he’s broken the law but no, he did nothing wrong it’s a coup d’état. Amazing.

Trump used the phone call with the Ukrainian leader “to advance his personal interests,” the whistleblower wrote, citing “multiple White House officials with direct knowledge of the call.”

The president, the complaint said, “is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election. This interference includes, among other things, pressuring a foreign country to investigate one of the President’s main domestic political rivals. The President’s personal lawyer, Mr. Rudolph W. Giuliani, is a central figure in this effort. Attorney General (William P.) Barr appears to be involved as well.”

The whistleblower said White House lawyers “understood the gravity of what had transpired” in Trump’s phone call with the Ukrainian president and directed that an electronic verbatim transcript of the conversation be moved into a secure computer system used for highly classified information.


Now, Trump has been caught using a secret computer system ― a private server, if you will ― to hide his election interference attempts.


“Republicans have made it very clear that secret servers are a criminal offense,” said Jesse Ferguson, a Democratic strategist who served on the Clinton campaign. “Will they apply the same rules to Trump that they apply to everyone else?”

An explosive letter from an unnamed intelligence official was released Thursday detailing attempts by the White House to cover up Trump’s wrongdoing.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I posted months ago there was a Coup d'état underway to dethrone Trump because its the only way the Dems can win. This might stick.

What doesn't look good for Donald is moving transcripts with world leaders to a more secure server. (sounds like Hillary with the private email server). Could be because there was all the leaking to the press by Obama hold overs. Remember that?

I had the same conclusion Bill did, does the country really want another 4 years of the daily drama?

I don't pay much attention to Rudy, he's lost more than a step.

I saw the Joe diGenova segment on tucker and as soon I heard him use the word "fool" I knew it would cause a dust up.

I think you lost the plot completely now. The Democrats don't do more or less than what the Republicans did during the Obama years. Are you that blinded by Mr T that you don't see it or maybe don't want to see it?

Coup d'Etat.
Secure server because of Obama leakers

No, Mr T did it to hide his impeachable offence! I am pretty convinced that if conversations of candidates would be recorded, we would have a similar tape/record showing him asking the same "favours" of Russia or other people. His behaviour has not changed.

- Remember he had Flynn (as incoming NS adviser) telling the Russians in December 2016 to veto a UN resolution against Israel and in return they would look to drop sanctions against Russia after his inauguration.
- Flynn texted the Saudis during the inauguration that they soon will receive nuclear technology.
- ...list by far not complete

I am flabbergasted at your blindness. The president brakes the law and you think it is a Coup d'Etat? In what kind of cuckoo-fantasy land are you living?

Just listening to his speech at the UN should have been indication enough that he lost his marbles completely. I would be deeply ashamed of my President or Chancellor if they would say that kind of things to all the world leaders in the audience.

 

[Harry_BKK]

It must be frustrating to have gone out and voted trump, be excited when he wins the presidency and looking forward to change, but then the dems, media etc.. act everyday as 'spoilers', with relentless personal attacks and accusations. So what should've been four years of feeling optimistic and positive has been turned into a negative experience or definitely had the shine taken off it.

I think tucker said last night, 'argue trump on policy' but the left don't, won't or can't do it, so instead try to create hysteria and soap opera politics at every opportunity regarding side issues, like stormy daniels etc...

It very much reminds me of brexit, what felt great when the result was announced has been ruined by the spoilers in the media and parliament, whose failed liberal policies motivated people to vote for brexit in the first place, similar to trump, the failings of both republican and democrat presidents/govts led to him winning and easily beating established politicians. The media sniffily refer to it as populist, as if having policies the majority of the public actually support is a bad thing.

Boris johnson is now seen as a threat to the liberal establishment in the UK, as unlike Theresa May he's starting to talk with determination about us leaving the EU, and then surprise surprise just like trump, the personal attacks and slur stories increase in the press and on tv news programmes, to try and weaken and undermine him. The exact same pattern as Trump, going through his past searching for dirt, that's not to say bojo and trump are without fault, but the debate should be centred on policy.

I put you in the same basket as slotplayer. Always other's people fault, isn't it? How easy to blame others for one's wrongdoings.

One more time, go back and read how the Republicans behaved during the Obama years, especially after they got control of Congress. Investigation after investigation, attack after attack, blocking everything and anything Obama proposed.

Dig up how Tucker & Co went mental because Obama had worn a tan suit! That should be enough to let you take off the blinders!

Again, are you that blinded mack?

 

[mack341]

I take that as you favor criminals. You don't mind criminal behaviour as long as it's in your benefit.

Trump can only blame himself on all of this.

As for this criminal's (Trump's) positions...could you tell me what policies he favors and the majority of americans favor? He's going against the majority on taxes, healthcare, gun policy and climate change at least. Not sure how it goes in immigration, but the majority oppose his wall plans at least.

He was elected by the minority 46,1% (Trump) vs 48,2% (Clinton). He has never reached 50% approval in polls.
At least in Brexit vote leavers won with a majority. Good luck with that.

Yes because the people who tend more to vote democrat live in densely populated cities; that was a bit harsh your opening sentence and backs up what I was saying about hysteria, I wouldn't dream of saying you favour criminals because you wanted hillary to be president, don't see how that would be fair to make that leap and connection. It kind of made me chuckle though so no harm done this end.

 

[vorcirion]

Yes because the people who tend more to vote democrat live in densely populated cities; that was a bit harsh your opening sentence and backs up what I was saying about hysteria, I wouldn't dream of saying you favour criminals because you wanted hillary to be president, don't see how that would be fair to make that leap and connection. It kind of made me chuckle though so no harm done this end.

There's plenty of evidence of Trump's criminality. That smart man even confessed it himself. Republicans investigated Hillary and didn't find criminality.

But you're trying to ignore Trump's criminality and you seem to want to concentrate on his policies instead. Am I wrong?
Trump kept saying: "no collusion, no obstruction" all the time. There was plenty of evidence of obstruction. Now Trump himself is suggesting collusion with Ukrainians. Asking for their help to take Joe Biden down.

 

[vorcirion]

Yes because the people who tend more to vote democrat live in densely populated cities; that was a bit harsh your opening sentence and backs up what I was saying about hysteria, I wouldn't dream of saying you favour criminals because you wanted hillary to be president, don't see how that would be fair to make that leap and connection. It kind of made me chuckle though so no harm done this end.

And as you'd argue in Brexit debate...majority is the one with over 50% support. Trump does not have it anywhere. Only in the economy he's getting over 50% approval. And the only things he has done for that are the tax cuts which were paid by huge debt increases. And trade wars. He really loves trying to destroy everything Obama has done...including the good economy situation.

 

[mack341]

I put you in the same basket as slotplayer. Always other's people fault, isn't it? How easy to blame others for one's wrongdoings.

One more time, go back and read how the Republicans behaved during the Obama years, especially after they got control of Congress. Investigation after investigation, attack after attack, blocking everything and anything Obama proposed.

Dig up how Tucker & Co went mental because Obama had worn a tan suit! That should be enough to let you take off the blinders!

Again, are you that blinded mack?

That's not the same basket as hillary mentioned is it, the basket of deplorables

I don't doubt a lot of barmy, side issue stuff, was thrown at obama by fox presenters etc..., when the more important faults and misdeeds were covered up or ignored [like assisting the bombing of yemen, arming of extremist/terrorist rebels in syria etc..]

I only talk in this thread the same as if the issues were happening in the uk, for example I disliked many of blair's personal traits but it was of secondary importance to his policies and politics that I disagreed with. If I was american I'd have voted for trump in 2016 through lack of a viable alternative, I didn't like bush jr or jeb. Rand paul would be better IMO but he doesn't have the mainstream support, and we need leaders who are not financially beholden to others, lobby fodder.

I did look up the congress and senate a while back re the health bill stuff, and to pass laws you need a 10 vote advantage or something, more than just a majority, I think that's why gun law reform is basically impossible to do.

 

[mack341]

There's plenty of evidence of Trump's criminality. That smart man even confessed it himself. Republicans investigated Hillary and didn't find criminality.

But you're trying to ignore Trump's criminality and you seem to want to concentrate on his policies instead. Am I wrong?
Trump kept saying: "no collusion, no obstruction" all the time. There was plenty of evidence of obstruction. Now Trump himself is suggesting collusion with Ukrainians. Asking for their help to take Joe Biden down.

I dunno I can't keep up with it all, the msm circus, you say there's plenty of evidence that's trump's a criminal, but currently he's sat with his feet under the oval office desk and a 50% approval rating... so it can't be all that clear-cut, surely?

I get the feeling the clip tucker played last night of congressmen Al Green I think it was [not the soul singer], is right, democrats fear if they don't impeach trump he'll win the 2020, that's the motivation.

 

[mack341]

And as you'd argue in Brexit debate...majority is the one with over 50% support. Trump does not have it anywhere. Only in the economy he's getting over 50% approval. And the only things he has done for that are the tax cuts which were paid by huge debt increases. And trade wars. He really loves trying to destroy everything Obama has done...including the good economy situation.

I'm not sure trump is right about the economy, yes I agree about repatriating jobs and balanced trade with china, but wanting like zero % interest rates from the fed, it's just creating a bigger false bubble that will be worse when it bursts. The stock market figures don't really represent the true economy, as companies buy up their own shares to keep the prices elevated etc... It's been going on for a while, before trump, the crash of 2008 and the underlying problems were papered over by massive quantiative easing [printing money]

There could be a hard reset coming in the next 5 years, probably depends if a mini boom occurs from demographics, i.e. lots of new young people with no personal debt buying stuff, 18-24 yr olds etc..

I'm not convinced obama was such a whizz kid with the economy, but the problems were sown before him by clinton with nafta and it's job destruction and then bush jnr, with the wars, housing bubbles, credit boom etc..

 

[slotplayer]

I put you in the same basket as slotplayer. Always other's people fault, isn't it? How easy to blame others for one's wrongdoings.

One more time, go back and read how the Republicans behaved during the Obama years, especially after they got control of Congress. Investigation after investigation, attack after attack, blocking everything and anything Obama proposed.

Dig up how Tucker & Co went mental because Obama had worn a tan suit! That should be enough to let you take off the blinders!

Again, are you that blinded mack?

Both sides block policy by not bringing it to the floor for a vote or tying it up in the courts that's politics but what's been going has ratcheted up to a personal level.

The tan suit argument is weak, why do you keep using it? I watched all the video even the liberal media made light of it.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Both sides bock policy by not bringing it to the floor for a vote or tying it up in the courts that's politics but what's been going has ratcheted up to a personal level.

The tan suit argument is weak, why do you keep using it? I watched all the video even the liberal media made light of it.

According to the Mr T-appointed Acting DNI the whistleblower “acted in good faith throughout, has done everything by the book and followed the law."

So you call following the law --> "ratcheted up to a personal level"?

 

[slotplayer]

the fantasy of Trump being a good guy is amazing on this thread.

Now we’re calling it a coup d’état. But nothing will stick because well you know...cuz it never does. I mean he’s broken the law but no, he did nothing wrong it’s a coup d’état. Amazing.

Trump used the phone call with the Ukrainian leader “to advance his personal interests,” the whistleblower wrote, citing “multiple White House officials with direct knowledge of the call.”

The president, the complaint said, “is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election. This interference includes, among other things, pressuring a foreign country to investigate one of the President’s main domestic political rivals. The President’s personal lawyer, Mr. Rudolph W. Giuliani, is a central figure in this effort. Attorney General (William P.) Barr appears to be involved as well.”

The whistleblower said White House lawyers “understood the gravity of what had transpired” in Trump’s phone call with the Ukrainian president and directed that an electronic verbatim transcript of the conversation be moved into a secure computer system used for highly classified information.


Now, Trump has been caught using a secret computer system ― a private server, if you will ― to hide his election interference attempts.


“Republicans have made it very clear that secret servers are a criminal offense,” said Jesse Ferguson, a Democratic strategist who served on the Clinton campaign. “Will they apply the same rules to Trump that they apply to everyone else?”

An explosive letter from an unnamed intelligence official was released Thursday detailing attempts by the White House to cover up Trump’s wrongdoing.

This is opinion/speculation not fact: Where did you paste this from?
Now, Trump has been caught using a secret computer system ― a private server, if you will ― to hide his election interference attempts.

I was watching CNN earlier today and they had on a former Obama person that either worked or ran the Situation Room where they transcribe these conversations, he made it sound all routine.

Remember two other phone conversations were already leaked in the past, (with Mexico and AU). The country could not afford any more leaks.

Leaking conversations with/from other world leaders undermines the trust those leaders have in the US government for the current and future admins.

 

[slotplayer]

According to the Mr T-appointed Acting DNI the whistleblower “acted in good faith throughout, has done everything by the book and followed the law."

So you call following the law --> "ratcheted up to a personal level"?

You follow the law to but look at all the anti-trump crap you've posted over the past 2.5 years. Didn't you just post a pic of Young Gretta sitting with Merkyl?

 

[Harry_BKK]

Just found this nickname for Mr T in a forum: "Agolf Twitler" .... I'm sure you can figure it out!

 

[Harry_BKK]

You follow the law to but look at all the anti-trump crap you've posted over the past 2.5 years. Didn't you just post a pic of Young Gretta sitting with Merkyl?

Deflecting again, eh?

You follow the law...but but but but.....

The posts I made were based on facts....very fittingly of you to call it "crap" just like your idol Mr T.

That your leader does not stop to say "hello" to a young girl who is making herself heard in this world, which is quite admirable in itself, says all about what kind of leader/person Mr T is. He walked past her in the same arrogant manner he pushed that other president out of the way at the UN conference some time ago. Shows very clearly that he has no respect for other people, no dignity and certainly no decency!

My post was to show the difference how a real leader (Merkel) behaves versus a conman like Mr T who has rolled back every environmental regulation he was able to, even when the industry who would benefit from the rollback objected to it.

 

[slotplayer]

Deflecting again, eh?

You follow the law...but but but but.....

The posts I made were based on facts....very fittingly of you to call it "crap" just like your idol Mr T.

That your leader does not stop to say "hello" to a young girl who is making herself heard in this world, which is quite admirable in itself, says all about what kind of leader/person Mr T is. He walked past her in the same arrogant manner he pushed that other president out of the way at the UN conference some time ago. Shows very clearly that he has no respect for other people, no dignity and certainly no decency!

My post was to show the difference how a real leader (Merkel) behaves versus a conman like Mr T who has rolled back every environmental regulation he was able to, even when the industry who would benefit from the rollback objected to it.

There is no deflection, your posts are all the same, to deliberately make T look bad, no matter what it is. Even some other members spoke up about your obsession with it in the past thread.

I do agree about the environmental regulations, he rolled back too many but that is policy not persona. There is a difference.

 

[Harry_BKK]

There is no deflection, your posts are all the same, to deliberately make T look bad, no matter what it is. Even some other members spoke up about your obsession with it in the past thread.

I do agree about the environmental regulations, he rolled back too many but that is policy not persona. There is a difference.

So you are saying that posting the truth is making your Mr T look bad? Got it! Perfect!

It is persona 100% re: rollbacks because he does it to erase Obama's legacy for his personal gratification and pockets! That is also why he is so obsessed with the Nobel Prize, it is plain personal for Mr T.

 

[slotplayer]

So you are saying that posting the truth is making your Mr T look bad? Got it! Perfect!

It is persona 100% re: rollbacks because he does it to erase Obama's legacy for his personal gratification and pockets! That is also why he is so obsessed with the Nobel Prize, it is plain personal for Mr T.

I don't know why he wasn't cordial to Young Gretta.

I see T all the time, the only time I ever recall the Nobel Prize being mentioned was when it came up way back with NK and at a rally during that time.

Even during all the copter stops with the press I don't recall the NP even being mentioned much if at all, certainly not to the point of me thinking "geez this guy is obsessed with the Nobel Prize."

 

[Harry_BKK]

I don't know why he wasn't cordial to Young Gretta.

I see T all the time, the only time I ever recall the Nobel Prize being mentioned was when it came up way back with NK and at a rally during that time.

Even during all the copter stops with the press I don't recall the NP even being mentioned much if at all, certainly not to the point of me thinking "geez this guy is obsessed with the Nobel Prize."

1. So the WH asking for the nomination doesn't tell you that he might be obsessed? The WH "informally" asking Japan to nominate Mr T -

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2. Mr T more interested in why she got the NP (and also apparently not knowing who and where the Rohingya are, he needs a staffer to tell him.... "right next to Burma" ).

Plus, the Nobel Prize winner tells him they killed her relatives and he then asks: "Where are they now?" ...You can't make this sh*t up, sheer and utter ignorance.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I can post you many more!

 

[sufferinsilence]

It must be frustrating to have gone out and voted trump, be excited when he wins the presidency and looking forward to change, but then the dems, media etc.. act everyday as 'spoilers', with relentless personal attacks and accusations. So what should've been four years of feeling optimistic and positive has been turned into a negative experience or definitely had the shine taken off it.

So, it doesn't happen the other way around? Republicans never "spoil" the democrats party when the president is a democrat? Really? Come on man.

 

[slotplayer]

1. So the WH asking for the nomination doesn't tell you that he might be obsessed? The WH "informally" asking Japan to nominate Mr T -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

2. Mr T more interested in why she got the NP (and also apparently not knowing who and where the Rohingya are, he needs a staffer to tell him.... "right next to Burma" ).

Plus, the Nobel Prize winner tells him they killed her relatives and he then asks: "Where are they now?" ...You can't make this sh*t up, sheer and utter ignorance.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I can post you many more!

The staffer? I think he's an Ambassador.

You mean this meeting with religious persecution survivors last July.

 

[Harry_BKK]

The staffer? I think he's an Ambassador.

You mean this meeting with religious persecution survivors last July.

It doesn't matter who it is. The fact that a president (of any country really) invites guests to his house and is totally uninformed shows the utter ignorance and disrespect for the people and their cause, no matter what cause that may be.

13:23 The guy just told him is a Rohingya and Mr T asks: "And where is that exactly?"

18:17:
Nadia Murad: They killed my mum, my six brothers.
Mr. T: Where are they now?

18:45 you can listen to his Nobel Prize talk

Does he look to you as a caring person? Sitting disinterested in the middle, often turning his back on the people who speak. Anyone who cares, would have them sit in a round facing each other. But the "Chosen One" must be at the centre of attention, not the victims.

And that staffer lauding the administration to the sky and back! Geez, brown noses are piling up in the current WH.

 

[mack341]

So, it doesn't happen the other way around? Republicans never "spoil" the democrats party when the president is a democrat? Really? Come on man.

I don't think there has been such an onslaught in the press/tv against a newly elected democrat president as there has been against Trump, I accept though that in the congress and senate, republican politicians will have have acted to block democrat laws and fox news will have run stories to snipe at democrats etc...maybe it's because we have more 24/7 media output these days, that it feels like an assault and bombardment.

With my 'spoiler' comment I was simply trying to put myself in the shoes of an american conservative voter, looking forward to changes in policy along the lines of america first, which is shorthand to me for the american people first, the average citizen, not american big business first or interfering in foreign countries abroad first, and the press coverage and continuous personal attacks on trump, will have had the effect of 'spoiling' it all, the optimism and hope you need as a voter.

I would always welcome 'serious' policy debate and discussion as I might learn something from it, but I don't feel we've had much of that compared to the 'hysteria' and soap opera approach.
Politics is very 'tribal' these days, probably as a result of 'identity politics' taking a grip of everything and really being still the number one focus of the liberals/left.

And I know exactly what the 'spoiler' affect is, having been on the receiving end of it here in the uk regarding brexit, from the very moment the result was announced the liberal media have attacked and denounced it, using their position to try to undermine and block it from happening. Nearly every newspaper, tv channel in the uk is anti brexit and yet 18 million people voted for it, so that is a major disconnect. There is a huge market/consumer for pro brexit views and yet none of these media 'businesses' will serve/represent that viewpoint, in a democracy where we need to hear both sides of an argument, we only get to hear one side. [including from state broadcasters, the bbc and channel four] If that doesn't ring alarm bells in someone, I don't know what will.

There's a propaganda war being waged by the liberal media [which is probably 90% of all the media] against brexit and trump voters, british papers and tv channels routinely lead with Trump stories ahead of stories about uk events etc..there's been more focus on trump than on any other subject except brexit, the two bugbears of the liberal elite.

 

[goatwack]

It's testament to our collective civility and calm discourse that this thread has survived, whilst the Bexit one tumbles.

Great work all round, people. Whoo!

 

[Steviedoo]

Can’t wait for trump to be re elected so all you trumpsters can gloat a

This is opinion/speculation not fact: Where did you paste this from?
Now, Trump has been caught using a secret computer system ― a private server, if you will ― to hide his election interference attempts.

I was watching CNN earlier today and they had on a former Obama person that either worked or ran the Situation Room where they transcribe these conversations, he made it sound all routine.

Remember two other phone conversations were already leaked in the past, (with Mexico and AU). The country could not afford any more leaks.

Leaking conversations with/from other world leaders undermines the trust those leaders have in the US government for the current and future admins.

More fantasy that this is all speculation.

 

[TheAddict]

I don't think there has been such an onslaught in the press/tv against a newly elected democrat president as there has been against Trump, I accept though that in the congress and senate, republican politicians will have have acted to block democrat laws and fox news will have run stories to snipe at democrats etc...maybe it's because we have more 24/7 media output these days, that it feels like an assault and bombardment.

With my 'spoiler' comment I was simply trying to put myself in the shoes of an american conservative voter, looking forward to changes in policy along the lines of america first, which is shorthand to me for the american people first, the average citizen, not american big business first or interfering in foreign countries abroad first, and the press coverage and continuous personal attacks on trump, will have had the effect of 'spoiling' it all, the optimism and hope you need as a voter.

I would always welcome 'serious' policy debate and discussion as I might learn something from it, but I don't feel we've had much of that compared to the 'hysteria' and soap opera approach.
Politics is very 'tribal' these days, probably as a result of 'identity politics' taking a grip of everything and really being still the number one focus of the liberals/left.

And I know exactly what the 'spoiler' affect is, having been on the receiving end of it here in the uk regarding brexit, from the very moment the result was announced the liberal media have attacked and denounced it, using their position to try to undermine and block it from happening. Nearly every newspaper, tv channel in the uk is anti brexit and yet 18 million people voted for it, so that is a major disconnect. There is a huge market/consumer for pro brexit views and yet none of these media 'businesses' will serve/represent that viewpoint, in a democracy where we need to hear both sides of an argument, we only get to hear one side. [including from state broadcasters, the bbc and channel four] If that doesn't ring alarm bells in someone, I don't know what will.

There's a propaganda war being waged by the liberal media [which is probably 90% of all the media] against brexit and trump voters, british papers and tv channels routinely lead with Trump stories ahead of stories about uk events etc..there's been more focus on trump than on any other subject except brexit, the two bugbears of the liberal elite.

You seem to not be ok with being conditioned and manipulated by the media in how you must to think. Perhaps being locked in a cell with 24/7 BBC news feed will do you some good. How dare you not be normal.

 

[vorcirion]

I don't think there has been such an onslaught in the press/tv against a newly elected democrat president as there has been against Trump, I accept though that in the congress and senate, republican politicians will have have acted to block democrat laws and fox news will have run stories to snipe at democrats etc...maybe it's because we have more 24/7 media output these days, that it feels like an assault and bombardment.

With my 'spoiler' comment I was simply trying to put myself in the shoes of an american conservative voter, looking forward to changes in policy along the lines of america first, which is shorthand to me for the american people first, the average citizen, not american big business first or interfering in foreign countries abroad first, and the press coverage and continuous personal attacks on trump, will have had the effect of 'spoiling' it all, the optimism and hope you need as a voter.

I would always welcome 'serious' policy debate and discussion as I might learn something from it, but I don't feel we've had much of that compared to the 'hysteria' and soap opera approach.
Politics is very 'tribal' these days, probably as a result of 'identity politics' taking a grip of everything and really being still the number one focus of the liberals/left.

And I know exactly what the 'spoiler' affect is, having been on the receiving end of it here in the uk regarding brexit, from the very moment the result was announced the liberal media have attacked and denounced it, using their position to try to undermine and block it from happening. Nearly every newspaper, tv channel in the uk is anti brexit and yet 18 million people voted for it, so that is a major disconnect. There is a huge market/consumer for pro brexit views and yet none of these media 'businesses' will serve/represent that viewpoint, in a democracy where we need to hear both sides of an argument, we only get to hear one side. [including from state broadcasters, the bbc and channel four] If that doesn't ring alarm bells in someone, I don't know what will.

There's a propaganda war being waged by the liberal media [which is probably 90% of all the media] against brexit and trump voters, british papers and tv channels routinely lead with Trump stories ahead of stories about uk events etc..there's been more focus on trump than on any other subject except brexit, the two bugbears of the liberal elite.

As Slotplayer has gloated here...FoxNews has had much better ratings than these liberal medias, so you can't really accuse media for this. Even with the help of the highest rating media Trump gets really crappy approval ratings.
Maybe if Trump achieved something...like a deal with NK or Iran or China or EU, he could get some positive coverage. Or maybe if he could build his wall...but he needs to rob money from the military to do that Doubt it still gets it done. Maybe if he had spent more time doing constructive things instead of spending 90% of his time on Twitter attacking various democrats or citizens or cities or states or countries or media channels or weathermen or little girls...maybe he could get something done!
Or maybe if he actually stopped Saudi-Arabia's war in Yemen instead of selling weaponry to them, he could get positive coverage.

But there are soooooooooooooooooo many things that Trump says/does that are negative: trade wars, muslim-ban, transgender-ban, trying to take away healthcare from people...and when that fails, attacking his own party member for it and keeps attacking him even after he has died. And when media reports it all...he calls it fakenews. And people get the image that media is attacking Trump when all they do is report all the stupidity that Trump does.

But you tell me what positive things he has accomplished. What kind of policies he has enacted that are helpful to people?

 

[goatwack]

Trump's promised to lift sanctions on Iran if they convene for 'talks'

I hope Iran is a good little boy and abides by this, thankyou Trump

 

[slotplayer]

It doesn't matter who it is. The fact that a president (of any country really) invites guests to his house and is totally uninformed shows the utter ignorance and disrespect for the people and their cause, no matter what cause that may be.

13:23 The guy just told him is a Rohingya and Mr T asks: "And where is that exactly?"

18:17:
Nadia Murad: They killed my mum, my six brothers.
Mr. T: Where are they now?

18:45 you can listen to his Nobel Prize talk

Does he look to you as a caring person? Sitting disinterested in the middle, often turning his back on the people who speak. Anyone who cares, would have them sit in a round facing each other. But the "Chosen One" must be at the centre of attention, not the victims.

And that staffer lauding the administration to the sky and back! Geez, brown noses are piling up in the current WH.

I'll let this go but the video is there for those that wish to watch it.

 

[slotplayer]

The Trump/GOP raises $13 million in contributions since they started impeachment drama. Talk about energizing the base.

You know if they get Trump and Pence to resign, then Pelosi becomes the president.

If Trump resigns, Pence becomes the president then picks a Vice President with approval of Congress.

Pence might not run in 2020. In that case the Republicans would have to nominate someone, so you can see how this could back fire on the Democrats.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Trump's promised to lift sanctions on Iran if they convene for 'talks'

I hope Iran is a good little boy and abides by this, thankyou Trump

Read his twitter feed to see that he meant no such thing!

Who do you believe now, Mr T or Rouhani?

 

[slotplayer]

I don't think there has been such an onslaught in the press/tv against a newly elected democrat president as there has been against Trump, I accept though that in the congress and senate, republican politicians will have have acted to block democrat laws and fox news will have run stories to snipe at democrats etc...maybe it's because we have more 24/7 media output these days, that it feels like an assault and bombardment.

With my 'spoiler' comment I was simply trying to put myself in the shoes of an american conservative voter, looking forward to changes in policy along the lines of america first, which is shorthand to me for the american people first, the average citizen, not american big business first or interfering in foreign countries abroad first, and the press coverage and continuous personal attacks on trump, will have had the effect of 'spoiling' it all, the optimism and hope you need as a voter.

I would always welcome 'serious' policy debate and discussion as I might learn something from it, but I don't feel we've had much of that compared to the 'hysteria' and soap opera approach.
Politics is very 'tribal' these days, probably as a result of 'identity politics' taking a grip of everything and really being still the number one focus of the liberals/left.

And I know exactly what the 'spoiler' affect is, having been on the receiving end of it here in the uk regarding brexit, from the very moment the result was announced the liberal media have attacked and denounced it, using their position to try to undermine and block it from happening. Nearly every newspaper, tv channel in the uk is anti brexit and yet 18 million people voted for it, so that is a major disconnect. There is a huge market/consumer for pro brexit views and yet none of these media 'businesses' will serve/represent that viewpoint, in a democracy where we need to hear both sides of an argument, we only get to hear one side. [including from state broadcasters, the bbc and channel four] If that doesn't ring alarm bells in someone, I don't know what will.

There's a propaganda war being waged by the liberal media [which is probably 90% of all the media] against brexit and trump voters, british papers and tv channels routinely lead with Trump stories ahead of stories about uk events etc..there's been more focus on trump than on any other subject except brexit, the two bugbears of the liberal elite.

Easier just to post a video. I guess you'll have to watch it on You Tube.

Obamas arrive for NATO summit

Apr 3, 2009