North Korea and US politics

[Harry_BKK]

*Looks around

What happened to the Trump Thread?
...................................................................................................

"Funny, that he did not allow guns into the hall where he held the NRA speech. " ~Harry_BKK

That decision was made by the NRA.


It's okay though. I know you can't help putting your pedantic spin on everything that is Trump. I do agree with you, however, that the Iranian people want to be freed. I know you will scoff at what I am going to say next, and I kind of hope you do.. because when all is said and done, I intend to take the low road and gloat with American Exceptionalism! (heh heh heh- that probably won't go over well)

North Korea will comply fully with denuclearization. And so will Iran. The reason I believe this is because, like North Korea, Iran has nothing left. North Korea's mountain (that housed it's nuclear weapons facility) didn't just collapse of it's own accord.It was taken out. Assad didn't use chemical weapons on his people, so logically, there weren't any chemical weapons facilities to destroy. The only obvious target was Iran's covert nuclear weapons program located in Seria.

As if Mr. T would have entered the venue knowing nearly 100% of the attendants wear their legally acquired weapons.

As for the other stuff.....you do like your (false) conspiracies, do you?

 

[goatwack]

by saying atop, your statement assumes the # of knife and acid attacks would stay the same. The reason the criminals use knives and acid as weapons is because guns are not available. If guns were available those weapons would be used less.

It's the same rationale used here, collect all the guns and some how crime would disappear when in reality the criminals would find other means.

History shows when a gun crazy terrorizes a neighborhood/town/city the residents go out and buy guns and (as a result) home invasions plummet.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Because one is used more than the other doesn't mean the rest stay still. Gun crime might be marginally ahead, but no more.

Crime's rising fast here, not the stuff you see on tourist postcards. Suggesting gun ownership is a good option is just tragic. Most countries don't want the problems associated with it.

Even if you could fell a burglar or intruder, chances are you'd be the one sued for attacking them. So it's not a solution is it really.

 

[pinnit2014]

What i can remember is getting in trouble with my parents because, when my dad was a cop in Northern Ireland, i found his gun when I was 9/10 (let's not go into total irresponsible parenting/gross misconduct) and proceeded to tell my all my primary school buddies; Dunno what was worse was my mum thought telling me it was a 'water pistol' or her thinking I'd, even at that age, not be able to tell the difference between that and a Supersoaker 5000

So despite our police being armed, I can probably tell you that most still run around with baseball bats/knives/sharp instruments in general - keep it old school

 

[goatwack]

What i can remember is getting in trouble with my parents because, when my dad was a cop in Northern Ireland, i found his gun when I was 9/10 (let's not go into total irresponsible parenting/gross misconduct) and proceeded to tell my all my primary school buddies; Dunno what was worse was my mum thought telling me it was a 'water pistol' or her thinking I'd, even at that age, not be able to tell the difference between that and a Supersoaker 5000

So despite our police being armed, I can probably tell you that most still run around with baseball bats/knives/sharp instruments in general - keep it old school

It was probably one of them pistols that blow soapy bubbles. Can't fool me!

 

[pinnit2014]

It was probably one of them pistols that blow soapy bubbles. Can't fool me!

Or a good bong

 

[goatwack]

Or a good bong

 

[lockinlove]

Very good analysis!

I read the agreement more than a year ago, hence, I don't remember every detail, so some of the following might not be 100% correct.

- The deal was from the start for the nuclear development only.
- Ballistic missile tests to be halted if the models could carry nuclear warheads. Any other missile can be tested
- Iran had to give up and irrevocably dismantle/destroy over 90% (was it 95%???) of their centrifuges. That is the biggest item that will ensure they can't just return to developing nuclear weapons. To produce weapon-grade nuclear material you need to enrich it from the natural 0.7% to over 90% which is achieved by using the centrifuges and for that you need a lot of them, I mean really a lot. Imagine the washing machine tumbler just that centrifuges spin at much higher speed to separate U-235 (needed for weapons) from U-238. Only very few companies in the world can produce some of the centrifuge components, hence, any activity to rebuild them would NOT go unnoticed.
- Iran can carry on with their domestic nuclear program for energy purposes, hence the amount of light / heavy water is rather fluent/changing. It was attested though by the IAEA that they returned immediately to within the limits. You don't need highly enriched material for energy plants, usually 3.5%, some are now trying to go to 7%.
- Iran can carry on developing conventional military equipment.

The latter is part why people call the JPCOA not a good deal as apparently some of it is ending up outside Iran. However, it was the only deal Iran would enter into and that took years to negotiate. Like any other sovereign nation they have the right to their own defense and can develop weapons to meet those requirements.

As to your last sentence, it wasn't just Obama/Kerry on the negotiation table, so all should get the blame if there is any to give. Obama was focused primarily on halting the nuclear development and for that the deal is good.

Over 200 high ranking military officials including admirals and 4 star generals, wrote a letter stating it was not a good deal. Because it didnt stop it, it delayed it and has too many open ends for things to escalate anyways. It is also not legally binding.

A sovereign nation that calls for the destruction of another country and offers cash rewards per death should not have a nuclear weapons program.

Using the term Obama is widely acceptable since it was his deal regardless who was involved in the negotiations. They had to be approved by Obama even though 5 other countries were involved.

 

[lockinlove]

Apropos lying and self-aggrandizing, if anyone, and I mean anyone still has an ounce of respect for Mr. T after this:

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I start losing faith in humanity.

Imagine, allowing people to take their guns into a concert hall. That is what Mr. T said should have been the case as it would have prevented the massacre.

Funny, that he did not allow guns into the hall where he held the NRA speech. Nobody was able to carry their guns inside the venue yet he not just implies that they should have done that inside the Bataclan, but also went on to mock how the victims were shot. Watch the video!

And of course no word of his BIG plans for new gun laws because he doesn't have any.

The secret service and other agencies would never allow that amount of armed citizens around a president of the USA

 

[goatwack]

Someone say Iran??

 

[lockinlove]

Minimum 50% of politics is false propaganda.

I assume none of those pundits actually cared to read the entire JPCOA agreement or the UN resolution 2231 endorsing it, nor do they have a clue of the immense work/equipment that is needed to produce weapons-grade U-235.

Not to mention the extremely long time Iran would need to remove traces of weapons-grade U-235 if they would dare to go down that road again.

I can only say again that the absolute majority of Iranians just wish to have their old life back. The country was once the Switzerland of the Middle East with a blooming economy, high education grade, exspansive trade relations and happy people. That was until a foreign government decided to get involved that ultimately enabled the hardliners to take over the country, but that's another story, let's not start that again.

Until a government called on the death of another nation. The USA are not to blame for that.

 

[lockinlove]

That is exactly the crux of the agreement which Mr T spins in the wrong way. Although there are sunset provisions, they won't be able to just restart their program. It is technically just not possible.

Yep, all those billions Mr. T claims were handed over to Iran as a gift, were indeed funds frozen due to sanctions and some of that goes back decades.

Obama included 1.3 billion dollars of interest on 400 million dollars.

 

[paul7388]

Just thought i would mention.

Not everyone hates Americans. But if you wonder why the rest of the world seems to dislike Trump then just watch his speech from the NRA the other day again.

Sorry but that was Nauseating to watch.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Until a government called on the death of another nation. The USA are not to blame for that.

The US government is exactly to blame for that. If it weren't for their covert action to overthrow a democratically elected government in Iran to re-instate the US-favored Shah, we would have never seen the rise of the hardliners in Iran, which has led exactly to the present situation. They were still supplying them weapons in the 80's.

So, yes, they are fully to blame just like with North-Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Isis and many other conflicts which would not have been without the USA stirring them up.

Mr. T called for the death of North Korea, and what should we think about that?

 

[goatwack]

The US government is exactly to blame for that. If it weren't for their covert action to overthrow a democratically elected government in Iran to re-instate the US-favored Shah, we would have never seen the rise of the hardliners in Iran, which has led exactly to the present situation. They were still supplying them weapons in the 80's.

So, yes, they are fully to blame just like with North-Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Isis and many other conflicts which would not have been without the USA stirring them up.

Mr. T called for the death of North Korea, and what should we think about that?

My daddyo was there during the revolution in '79. Took one long look at it and opted for "Toodlepip"

 

[Harry_BKK]

Obama included 1.3 billion dollars of interest on 400 million dollars.

That is pretty much the standard compound interest for the amount of time the money was frozen by the US. Hence, nothing unusual.

 

[Harry_BKK]

The secret service and other agencies would never allow that amount of armed citizens around a president of the USA

Exactly what I was trying to say. No way to allow when the president is present but according to Mr. T it should be allowed in a normal concert hall!

 

[slotplayer]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Because one is used more than the other doesn't mean the rest stay still. Gun crime might be marginally ahead, but no more.

Crime's rising fast here, not the stuff you see on tourist postcards. Suggesting gun ownership is a good option is just tragic. Most countries don't want the problems associated with it.

Even if you could fell a burglar or intruder, chances are you'd be the one sued for attacking them. So it's not a solution is it really.

I'm not suggesting gun ownership as a solution, I'm saying that if they (USA) were to outlaw guns like the left wants other weapons of convenience would take their place, like it has there.

 

[Harry_BKK]

My daddyo was there during the revolution in '79. Took one long look at it and opted for "Toodlepip"

Apropos revolution, and please no laughing as the matter was serious in that moment.

After experiencing the first Eastern Germans being let to pass the Hungarian border into the Western World in summer '89, my brother and I traveled back to Romania in December when things were heating up there. One morning there was a big stir in the village that armed units are approaching to take control of the village. Pretty much all males gathered around the century-old fortified castle with anything they could grab. There were pitchforks, axes, batons and even a rusty old rifle from probably WWI, around 250 men ready to "defend" the village.

Luckily, it turned out to be a rumor. Imagine what chances we would have had against a heavily armed "securitate" force.

But that castle was never taken in countless attacks and sieges, probably the reason why we gathered in front of it.

This is the castle. We were standing in front of the main entrance which centuries ago was the edge of the outer fortification wall with the ditch in between filled with water (that was demolished after WWI). In those times, every family in the village even used to have one room inside the castle.

 

[goatwack]

I'm not suggesting gun ownership as a solution, I'm saying that if they (USA) were to outlaw guns like the left wants other weapons of convenience would take their place, like it has there.

I fail to see how removing guns from the equation would be worse than it is now though. It's not 1787 anymore where you need to defend your plot of land from raiders

 

[goatwack]

Apropos revolution, and please no laughing as the matter was serious in that moment.

After experiencing the first Eastern Germans being let to pass the Hungarian border into the Western World in summer '89, my brother and I traveled back to Romania in December when things were heating up there. One morning there was a big stir in the village that armed units are approaching to take control of the village. Pretty much all males gathered around the century-old fortified castle with anything they could grab. There were pitchforks, axes, batons and even a rusty old shotgun from probably WWI, around 250 men ready to "defend" the village.

Luckily, it turned out to be a rumor. Imagine what chances we would have had against a heavily armed "securitate" force.

But that castle was never taken in countless attacks and sieges, probably the reason why we gathered in front of it.

This is the castle. We were standing in front of the main entrance which centuries ago was the edge of the outer fortification wall with the ditch in between filled with water (that was demolished after WWI). In those times, every family in the village even used to have one room inside the castle.

View attachment 90885

Everyone knows better than to f*ck with a fortified castle

Must have been quite a scene

 

[Harry_BKK]

Everyone knows better than to f*ck with a fortified castle

Must have been quite a scene

And what a scene mate. We are still laughing today about it when some of us who where there meet at a wedding or similar.

 

[lockinlove]

The US government is exactly to blame for that. If it weren't for their covert action to overthrow a democratically elected government in Iran to re-instate the US-favored Shah, we would have never seen the rise of the hardliners in Iran, which has led exactly to the present situation. They were still supplying them weapons in the 80's.

So, yes, they are fully to blame just like with North-Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Isis and many other conflicts which would not have been without the USA stirring them up.

Mr. T called for the death of North Korea, and what should we think about that?

No.

Nobody forces another countries leaders to call for the death off all jews.

There is a difference. USA responded to NK threats it was going to blow up Guam. The United states government does not ghold annual parades calling for the death of all Iranian citizens. The United States government does not announces cash rewards for killing Jewish citizens.

 

[lockinlove]

Exactly what I was trying to say. No way to allow when the president is present but according to Mr. T it should be allowed in a normal concert hall!

You think that comparison is the same? I dont think you do.

 

[lockinlove]

That is pretty much the standard compound interest for the amount of time the money was frozen by the US. Hence, nothing unusual.

No.

It was a negotiated amount. They did not use the standard compound interest.

Also, paying them interest on past unrelated sanctions was widely condemned.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I'm not suggesting gun ownership as a solution, I'm saying that if they (USA) were to outlaw guns like the left wants other weapons of convenience would take their place, like it has there.

Can you please post your proof that weapons of convenience have replaced guns in the UK? Probably, any current living European has grown up without weapons, except during their conscription (even that has been shelved).

I don't think the "left" wants to outlaw guns, according to what I read they want "better gun control", that is clearly different from outlawing.

 

[Harry_BKK]

You think that comparison is the same? I dont think you do.

Why should it not be the same. There are people involved in both cases.....aka humans which are all the same on this planet the last time I checked.

 

[Harry_BKK]

No.

Nobody forces another countries leaders to call for the death off all jews.

There is a difference. USA responded to NK threats it was going to blow up Guam. The United states government does not ghold annual parades calling for the death of all Iranian citizens. The United States government does not announces cash rewards for killing Jewish citizens.

Go and check if anyone in Iran shouted death to the Jews prior to the revolution?

White supremacists shout that today in the USA, in Germany and other countries!

 

[livadiva]

I have no idea what you are saying ever

Poop. Blessed is. I think about people without toilets and wonder what they are missing here. Undo on whatever spell is causing you difficulty to comprehend. This is in Toronto. Good way to facilitate World Peace with Ice Cream that looks like poop. We all poop. We all like Ice Cream. I am part of other world wide think tanks, sorry if I thought you were in on that!

 

[Harry_BKK]

No.

It was a negotiated amount. They did not use the standard compound interest.

Also, paying them interest on past unrelated sanctions was widely condemned.

Well, then let it be a negotiated interest. It still represents compound interest on cash that the US had frozen for very long, I can't remember the exact amount of years.

 

[lockinlove]

I can only say again that the absolute majority of Iranians just wish to have their old life back. The country was once the Switzerland of the Middle East with a blooming economy, high education grade, exspansive trade relations and happy people. That was until a foreign government decided to get involved that ultimately enabled the hardliners to take over the country, but that's another story, let's not start that again.

And btw this is an indirect way you of you defending Iran. You are calling out the USA and stating all of these issues are because of the USA.

This started back up when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad started for calls to the end of the zionist regime. He also joined in on protests that called the for the end of israel. Those comments were publicly slammed by Canada, US, EU and the UN.

He also stated that millions of jews were not put in gas chambers and murdered.

In 2006 he then again stated "The existence of the jews is headed downwards. God has promised this to us and what all nations want" Then again in 2012 he stated the world objective is destroy Israel.

Sorry but when you have a government speaking like this. They are to blame. Not the US orr Israel or the EU or Canada.

 

[Harry_BKK]

And btw this is an indirect way you of you defending Iran. You are calling out the USA and stating all of these issues are because of the USA.

This started back up when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad started for calls to the end of the zionist regime. He also joined in on protests that called the for the end of israel. Those comments were publicly slammed by Canada, US, EU and the UN.

He also stated that millions of jews were not put in gas chambers and murdered.

In 2006 he then again stated "The existence of the jews is headed downwards. God has promised this to us and what all nations want" Then again in 2012 he stated the world objective is destroy Israel.

Sorry but when you have a government speaking like this. They are to blame. Not the US orr Israel or the EU or Canada.

And who made is possible for someone like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to come to power? Please stop the blatant disregard of history.

 

[lockinlove]

Well, then let it be a negotiated interest. It still represents compound interest on cash that the US had frozen for very long, I can't remember the exact amount of years.

Since the 70's. All warranted sanctions from past admins.

Obama undermining them and then actually paying interest on it is laughable. Was it even interest or was it Obama paying for hostages? Either way, terrible.

 

[goatwack]

Poop. Blessed is. I think about people without toilets and wonder what they are missing here. Undo on whatever spell is causing you difficulty to comprehend. This is in Toronto. Good way to facilitate World Peace with Ice Cream that looks like poop. We all poop. We all like Ice Cream. I am part of other world wide think tanks, sorry if I thought you were in on that!

I see what you mean now

 

[lockinlove]

I see what you mean now

Care to share?

 

[paul7388]

Poop. Blessed is. I think about people without toilets and wonder what they are missing here. Undo on whatever spell is causing you difficulty to comprehend. This is in Toronto. Good way to facilitate World Peace with Ice Cream that looks like poop. We all poop. We all like Ice Cream. I am part of other world wide think tanks, sorry if I thought you were in on that!

Thank God somebody brings some sanity to this thread

 

[goatwack]

Care to share?

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Iran

 

[lockinlove]

Go and check if anyone in Iran shouted death to the Jews prior to the revolution?

White supremacists shout that today in the USA, in Germany and other countries!

The leaders of those countries do not.

 

[slotplayer]

I fail to see how removing guns from the equation would be worse than it is now though. It's not 1787 anymore where you need to defend your plot of land from raiders

Because there is a huge gun culture here, collecting and removing all the guns would just move sales underground, where tracking would be impossible. I'm not so sure the outcome would be what the anti-gun crowd envisions.

This is the second amendment text:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[slotplayer]

Can you please post your proof that weapons of convenience have replaced guns in the UK? Probably, any current living European has grown up without weapons, except during their conscription (even that has been shelved).

I don't think the "left" wants to outlaw guns, according to what I read they want "better gun control", that is clearly different from outlawing.

I have no idea of guns in the UK. What I'm getting at is if the UK had the same gun culture USA has the criminals would be using guns and not knives or acid.

The left ultimately wants to get rid of the 2nd amendment and I think that is why the NRA is so unreasonable.

 

[goatwack]

Because there is a huge gun culture here, collecting and removing all the guns would just move sales underground, where tracking would be impossible. I'm not so sure the outcome would be what the anti-gun crowd envisions.

This is the second amendment text:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That's my point exactly. Militia? It's outdated. You have the police, armed forces et al to maintain peace. Plus what could possibly easier to track, a few hundred gun ownerships/ purchases or 100,000s.

Illegal gun trade will always thrive in the criminal element, but it has to be easier to detect than if it were hidden in plain sight. The refusal to move with the times baffles just about everyone.....

 

[lockinlove]

Why should it not be the same. There are people involved in both cases.....aka humans which are all the same on this planet the last time I checked.

Last time I checked there is a reason why presidents are protected and civilians walking the down street dont have armed body guards.

 

[slotplayer]

And who made is possible for someone like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to come to power? Please stop the blatant disregard of history.

I thought he was just a puppet?

 

[slotplayer]

That's my point exactly. Militia? It's outdated. You have the police, armed forces et al to maintain peace. Plus what could possibly easier to track, a few hundred gun ownerships/ purchases or 100,000s.

Illegal gun trade will always thrive in the criminal element, but it has to be easier to detect than if it were hidden in plain sight. The refusal to move with the times baffles just about everyone.....

I would not assume it would be a few hundred.


look at these numbers:
Record 27 million guns sold across the U.S. in 2016, 4 million more than the previous year

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2016
14,925 Homicides,
38,658 All gun deaths.

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2016
More than 64,000 Americans died from drug overdoses in 2016, including illicit drugs and prescription opioids--nearly double in a decade.

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[goatwack]

I would not assume it would be a few hundred.


look at these numbers:
Record 27 million guns sold across the U.S. in 2016, 4 million more than the previous year

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2016
14,925 Homicides,
38,658 All gun deaths.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

2016
More than 64,000 Americans died from drug overdoses in 2016, including illicit drugs and prescription opioids--nearly double in a decade.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So it produces less deaths than people overdosing, but would likely produce 15000 less murders and 39000 gun fatalities if people didn't have them, surely?

Not to mention official figures and actual figures tend to vary quite a lot....

 

[lockinlove]

I thought he was just a puppet?

The comment doesnt matter anyways. For one, its controversial. For two, by all accounts Khomeini was going to attempt to overthrow Pahlavi regardless if the USA was going to back them.

And even it did matter. None of that has to do with current administrations. What Jimmy Carter might have done back then still doesnt give Iran free pass to do what they are doing 40 years later. So just because the USA may have gotten involved doesnt mean that Germany, UK, USA etc should not act on Iran aggression and threats now

 

[lockinlove]

Also seen alot of media stating knife crimes are increasing steadily in the UK. Time to ban knifes and forks too. Oh and vans.

 

[goatwack]

Also seen alot of media stating knife crimes are increasing steadily in the UK. Time to ban knifes and forks too. Oh and vans.

View attachment 90893

Guns are designed primarily to kill, not go clay pigeon shooting Vans aren't produced to mow people down....

No one's saying knife crime isn't going up, but how does adding another problem ie guns help matters in regards to managing crime?

 

[paul7388]

Also seen alot of media stating knife crimes are increasing steadily in the UK. Time to ban knifes and forks too. Oh and vans.

View attachment 90893

Sorry you talk about fake stories.

The graphs you illustrate look like a huge rise which is nowhere near the truth.

Yes knife crime figures are showing to be rising in UK. But you have not even bothered to research why you have just flung some article you have found on here.

Their are many reasons for the increase in figures. Many are to do with the way crimes are recorded and reported. More people are actually reporting crimes that went unreported before like sexual assaults involving knifes etc. Also many crimes that involved knifes before were not classes as knife crimes like they are now.

Please before digging any article out you find online do what you tell others and actually research the facts

 

[lockinlove]

Guns are designed primarily to kill, not go clay pigeon shooting Vans aren't produced to mow people down....

No one's saying knife crime isn't going up, but how does adding another problem ie guns help matters in regards to managing crime?

Im not overly passionate on the subject of supporting alot of the gun laws anyways. Guns are made to defend and deter too. But I get your point.

If countries could learn from Norways policies, everyone would be much safer.

 

[paul7388]

Sorry you talk about fake stories.

The graphs you illustrate look like a huge rise which is nowhere near the truth.

Yes knife crime figures are showing to be rising in UK. But you have not even bothered to research why you have just flung some article you have found on here.

Their are many reasons for the increase in figures. Many are to do with the way crimes are recorded and reported. More people are actually reporting crimes that went unreported before like sexual assaults involving knifes etc. Also many crimes that involved knifes before were not classes as knife crimes like they are now.

Please before digging any article out you find online do what you tell others and actually research the facts

In fact it was only the last few years knife crime had dropped it is now rising again to way it was a few years back. And like i said although crime is rising a lot of it is to do with the way crimes are reported and also due to the fact their are a lot fewer police about to stop crime.