North Korea and US politics

[mack341]

Threatening to murder a witness makes him deserve atleast that.
Why do you think he should get away with it is a better question i think.
And "he/she/it did that" is not a defense for what Roger Stone has done.

As far as I can tell if the witness you mention was mr credico, he was in court making wisecracks and trying to do comedic impressions, rather than applying for the witness protection scheme/having a face transplant to hide from stone's intention to have him murdered.

Have you got any quotes or sources for this btw, has this been added to his charge sheet? Or was it a turn of phrase rather than a real threat that would be carried out?

I didn't say he should get away with it either, I said a sentence around 1 year would be reasonable/fitting. The man's an eccentric, political trickster, waste of time and money keeping him banged up for years, it's disproportionate and ott.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I know what you mean, I edited that out of my post, about getting a fair trial in a strongly partisan environment if there is a political element to the charge being faced; however I don't think it equates the same here, to the situation now, with many afflicted strongly by trump derangement syndrome, which takes bias and the difficulty of making a fair judgement to the next level.

The thing with mueller and the various indictments, is the context and background to it all. I haven't read all the details regarding manafort etc...but my sense is it's not groundbreaking stuff, but the best mueller and his team could find to inflict as much collateral damage as possible on trump.

The trump hating public ought to be a bit careful for what they wish for, an all powerful deep state could turn against their candidate when the policies don't quite fit with the deep state's preferred agenda. look at tulsi gabbard, not quite enough of a warhawk for the msm so must be attacked whenever possible.

The fact alot of these people have agreed into plea deals means they knew they did wrong and this way have most likely gotten a much better sentence than when they would've let the case go to court. It might not have been groundbreaking but apparently it was more than enough to warrant serious sentences.

I don't believe in a "deep state" the way it is pictured by Trump and his following. If anything the deep state are career politicians, diplomats, lobbyists and advisors who'll always be around in DC whether there is a democrat or republican in office. Roger Stone is deep state being involved in the Nixon, Reagan and Trump campaigns and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

And talking about MSM: Fox News is the biggest MSM outlet there is on cable news. Just look at the ratings which are touted by Trump himself every so often. Aren't they trying to influence their public? It's not because the primetime hosts are all very pro-Trump that they're a "fringe" news outlet. They're as mainstream as they come.

 

[mack341]

I agree re the deep state. Yes, but Fox are the only mainstream channel putting forward some conservative viewpoints, I don't agree with them on everything, they have their convenient blind spots as well. We have a bit of a problem if the public is roughly 50/50 liberal/conservative but the media is 90% liberal, pushing the woke/pc agenda, then there's a disconnect. There was a better balance in the past, when also media ownership wasn't concentrated and so you had a broader range of opinion from writers and broadcasters.

I'm no trump fan boy either despite what some here may believe but in the cold light of day, he just represents the views of most 70yr olds, and because he doesn't worship at the temple of woke orthodoxy he must be constantly pilloried.

 

[goatwack]

I actually liked Deep State, though series 2 was a lot better overall I felt

 

[Kroffe]

As far as I can tell if the witness you mention was mr credico, he was in court making wisecracks and trying to do comedic impressions, rather than applying for the witness protection scheme/having a face transplant to hide from stone's intention to have him murdered.

Have you got any quotes or sources for this btw, has this been added to his charge sheet? Or was it a turn of phrase rather than a real threat that would be carried out?

I didn't say he should get away with it either, I said a sentence around 1 year would be reasonable/fitting. The man's an eccentric, political trickster, waste of time and money keeping him banged up for years, it's disproportionate and ott.

Turn of phrase? I think it was what was written in his text.
"Prepare to die"
And thats a death-threat in my book, even if it comes from a "eccentric political trickster".

Giving the man 1 year would just prove exactly what the narcissistic clown has been counting on all these years.
That he is above the law.
He should serve a sentence according to what the law says about the crimes he have committed. No more, no less.

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[mack341]

Turn of phrase? I think it was what was written in his text.
"Prepare to die"
And thats a death-threat in my book, even if it comes from a "eccentric political trickster".

Giving the man 1 year would just prove exactly what the narcissistic clown has been counting on all these years.
That he is above the law.
He should serve a sentence according to what the law says about the crimes he have committed. No more, no less.

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I doubt mr credico was shaking in his boots, stone is a fantasist, it's melodramatic bluff...'you're a rat...prepare to die' if he'd wanted to make a real threat he'd likely dress it up in euphemistic terms, to create more fear or not at all in case the police found it later on, he wouldn't want lasting evidence of it to be available for them to discover.

 

[goatwack]

"You're a rat....prepare to die!" is definitely a generic, low-tier mobster film extra thing to say

 

[mack341]

Turn of phrase? I think it was what was written in his text.
"Prepare to die"
And thats a death-threat in my book, even if it comes from a "eccentric political trickster".

Giving the man 1 year would just prove exactly what the narcissistic clown has been counting on all these years.
That he is above the law.
He should serve a sentence according to what the law says about the crimes he have committed. No more, no less.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I don't see what stone gained from telling congress he had a backchannel to wikileaks and assange, can you decipher this for me?

He now gets to spend 20 years in poky, what was the flipside if congress believed him?

 

[Kroffe]

I doubt mr credico was shaking in his boots, stone is a fantasist, it's melodramatic bluff...'you're a rat...prepare to die' if he'd wanted to make a real threat he'd likely dress it up in euphemistic terms, to create more fear or not at all in case the police found it later on, he wouldn't want lasting evidence of it to be available for them to discover.

Even disregarding the threat, he is still guilty of witness tampering, and should be judged accordingly.

Edit: i believe thats the charge anyways, i dont think he has a charge for the death-threats.

 

[mack341]

Even disregarding the threat, he is still guilty of witness tampering, and should be judged accordingly.

The witness, mr credico led stone on to believe this in the early days, that he had direct access to assange, then stone wanted him to say the same to congress. It was like two bs merchants getting each other in trouble

 

[Kroffe]

I don't see what stone gained from telling congress he had a backchannel to wikileaks and assange, can you decipher this for me?

He now gets to spend 20 years in poky, what was the flipside if congress believed him?

"When the House had asked Stone in September 2017 if he had discussed WikiLeaks, its founder Julian Assange or the Democratic hack with the Trump campaign, Stone had denied it under oath , saying his legal team "found nothing" of those types of communications.

Prosecutors argued that witness testimony, along with Stone's texts, emails and phone records, showed Stone's interest in reaching WikiLeaks about the hacked documents it had and speaking to the Trump campaign and even Trump himself about it. Prosecutors said Stone had lied to Congress out of a desire to protect Trump. "

 

[goatwack]

Jeez they even look like mobsters

 

[Kroffe]

The witness, mr credico led stone on to believe this in the early days, that he had direct access to assange, then stone wanted him to say the same to congress. It was like two bs merchants getting each other in trouble

View attachment 117920

But when the committee and Special Counsel Robert Mueller later sought to corroborate Stone’s claim by asking Credico to testify, Credico realized Stone had lied about him being a back channel and fudged the timeline to make it sound like Credico had provided information in July, when in fact Credico did not actually interview Assange until a month later.

“I don’t know why you had to lie and say you had a backchannel,” Credico later told Stone in texts sent in early December 2017. “You could have just told them the truth … You want me to cover you for perjury now.”

“I guarantee you, you are the one who gets indicted for perjury if you are stupid enough to testify,” Stone replied.

 

[mack341]

But when the committee and Special Counsel Robert Mueller later sought to corroborate Stone’s claim by asking Credico to testify, Credico realized Stone had lied about him being a back channel and fudged the timeline to make it sound like Credico had provided information in July, when in fact Credico did not actually interview Assange until a month later.

“I don’t know why you had to lie and say you had a backchannel,” Credico later told Stone in texts sent in early December 2017. “You could have just told them the truth … You want me to cover you for perjury now.”

“I guarantee you, you are the one who gets indicted for perjury if you are stupid enough to testify,” Stone replied.

That's what I mean even credico doesn't know why stone did it, if we could work that out the case might make more sense. The thing is faced by mueller's team of prosecutors grilling you, you might say something wrong in an attempt to protect yourself.

They may have been trying to say/prove stone had a direct link to russians, that was where he was getting his info from on the leaks etc.. and he then thought 'shit! I know I'll tell them about credico and wikileaks to get them off my case' a white lie can mushroom. He wasn't charged with russian collusion or interfering illegally in the 2016 election, so has got himself landed in jail on side issues to mueller's original investigation

 

[Kroffe]

That's what I mean even credico doesn't know why stone did it, if we could work that out the case might make more sense. The thing is faced by mueller's team of prosecutors grilling you, you might say something wrong in an attempt to protect yourself.

They may have been trying to say/prove stone had a direct link to russians, that was where he was getting his info from on the leaks etc.. and he then thought 'shit! I know I'll tell them about credico and wikileaks to get them off my case'

"Prosecutors said Stone had lied to Congress out of a desire to protect Trump."

Why can it not just be as easy as that?
He lied to protect his buddy Trump.

 

[mack341]

"Prosecutors said Stone had lied to Congress out of a desire to protect Trump."

Why can it not just be as easy as that?
He lied to protect his buddy Trump.

Out of a desire to protect trump from what? Trump never colluded with putin otherwise he wouldn't be still sat where he is now. Surely the whole mueller case didn't hinge on roger stone?

If you believed wikileaks were in bed with the russians, collaborating and coordinating, and roger was tasked with getting the info for trump, maybe that's the story.

To me Hillary was a toxic, divisive character carrying a lot of negative baggage, that was all the help trump ever needed to win.

 

[Kroffe]

Out of a desire to protect trump from what? Trump never colluded with putin otherwise he wouldn't be still sat where he is now. Surely the whole mueller case didn't hinge on roger stone?

If you believed wikileaks were in bed with the russians, collaborating and coordinating, and roger was tasked with getting the info for trump, maybe that's the story.

To me Hillary was a toxic, divisive character carrying a lot of negative baggage, that was all the help trump ever needed to win.

"Stone testified he had a back channel to WikiLeaks website founder Julian Assange, who alerted him in the summer of 2016 that more damning emails about Clinton would be released. "

Even if Trump would have won without Stones lies, they were still in his favor.

 

[mack341]

"Stone testified he had a back channel to WikiLeaks website founder Julian Assange, who alerted him in the summer of 2016 that more damning emails about Clinton would be released. "

Even if Trump would have won without Stones lies, they were still in his favor.

It was in his favor that 'more damning emails about clinton would be released'?..so they were never released, but the harm was done by saying they would be?

I wished you'd put a bit more meat on the bones regarding these roger stone lies that helped trump, practically the whole msm is anti trump and yet the 2016 narrative concocted so far is vague and misty, if there'd been something distinctive, standout, trump would've had to resign a year ago surely?

 

[Kroffe]

It was in his favor that 'more damning emails about clinton would be released'?..so they were never released, but the harm was done by saying they would be?

I wished you'd put a bit more meat on the bones regarding these roger stone lies that helped trump, practically the whole msm is anti trump and yet the 2016 narrative concocted so far is vague and misty, if there'd been something distinctive, standout, trump would've had to resign a year ago surely?

Of course that works in Trumps favor.
"oooh, just you wait, theres more damning emails coming" does not exactly sound good does it?
Had he been outed as a liar&criminal then and there, it probably would have had the reverse effect and instead worked in Hillarys favor.

I dont know what more meat you need to see that the man is a criminal and a liar. If you dont believe him to be guilty of the things he has been found guilty of, then theres no way i can convince you otherwise.
Eccentric political trickster or not, he seems to have overstepped, and is now paying for it.

 

[mack341]

Of course that works in Trumps favor.
"oooh, just you wait, theres more damning emails coming" does not exactly sound good does it?
Had he been outed as a liar&criminal then and there, it probably would have had the reverse effect and instead worked in Hillarys favor.

I dont know what more meat you need to see that the man is a criminal and a liar. If you dont believe him to be guilty of the things he has been found guilty of, then theres no way i can convince you otherwise.
Eccentric political trickster or not, he seems to have overstepped, and is now paying for it.

I was just asking, it wasn't clear for me what you meant with your post, I haven't followed the ins and outs of the hillary email leaks and timeline. It all get's confused in my head with that server business of her's which was also being looked at around that time.

You said stone's lies (plural) helped trump, I was just wondering whether you could expand on what they were, but it doesn't matter.

I doubt the neutral public, the swing voter as opposed to swinging voter, would've put much credence to stone's utterances, a man with a tattoo of richard nixon on his back.

The feeling of 'anything goes' if it damages trump is all I'm left thinking, the sense of perspective and proportion thrown out the window.

 

[Kroffe]

I was just asking, it wasn't clear for me what you meant with your post, I haven't followed the ins and outs of the hillary email leaks and timeline. It all get's confused in my head with that server business of her's which was also being looked at around that time.

You said stone's lies (plural) helped trump, I was just wondering whether you could expand on what they were, but it doesn't matter.

I doubt the neutral public, the swing voter as opposed to swinging voter, would've put much credence to stone's utterances, a man with a tattoo of richard nixon on his back.

The feeling of 'anything goes' if it damages trump is all I'm left thinking, the sense of perspective and proportion thrown out the window.

Well yeah, they are after Trump, and i dont think anybody is denying that.
But i dont see how its "anything goes". They are not making up things to charge Trumps buddies with.
They have been tried, and found guilty of actual crimes, some more serious than others.

I think they will get Trump aswell in the end.
That his lies & criminal acts will come back to bite him, as it has for the criminals he surrounds himself with.
But that may be just wishful thinking on my part. He is good at weaseling out of trouble.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Well yeah, they are after Trump, and i dont think anybody is denying that.
But i dont see how its "anything goes". They are not making up things to charge Trumps buddies with.
They have been tried, and found guilty of actual crimes, some more serious than others.

I think they will get Trump aswell in the end.
That his lies & criminal acts will come back to bite him, as it has for the criminals he surrounds himself with.
But that may be just wishful thinking on my part. He is good at weaseling out of trouble.

There is a reason Trump has been fighting so hard to not have this tax returns made public... He is exhausting all legal options to keep them under lock. If he had nothing to hide, why would he? He should be proud to show everyone: "look, I'm clean and this is a witch hunt" but just tweeting once a day "witch hunt" is much easier I guess.

 

[Kroffe]

There is a reason Trump has been fighting so hard to not have this tax returns made public... He is exhausting all legal options to keep them under lock. If he had nothing to hide, why would he? He should be proud to show everyone: "look, I'm clean and this is a witch hunt" but just tweeting once a day "witch hunt" is much easier I guess.

Yeah, that and marketing his sons book seems to take up alot of twitter-space these days for him.
"Trump has accused former vice president Joe Biden of major ethical lapses and railed against Biden's son for allegedly profiting off his father's office. "

Its like he has zero self awareness.

 

[Harry_BKK]

In other news:

"Anticipating a very busy 2020, the President is taking advantage of a free weekend here in Washington, D.C., to begin portions of his routine annual physical exam at Walter Reed," White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said in a statement.

Sure, he will do it three months advance. Who are they kidding? The guy is obese and 74 years old. The average live expectancy for men in the US is 76 years!

Didn't know it took so long to write another fake result sheet, e.g. "he could live up to 200 years, his genes are just so perfect."

To me, when a 74-year old goes to a hospital well in advance than required then something is not right, isn't it?

And busy with what? More TV binge watching and tweeting?

 

[Kroffe]

In other news:

"Anticipating a very busy 2020, the President is taking advantage of a free weekend here in Washington, D.C., to begin portions of his routine annual physical exam at Walter Reed," White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said in a statement.

Sure, he will do it three months advance. Who are they kidding? The guy is obese and 74 years old. The average live expectancy for men in the US is 76 years!

Didn't know it took so long to write another fake result sheet, e.g. "he could live up to 200 years, his genes are just so perfect."

To me, when a 74-year old goes to a hospital well in advance than required then something is not right, isn't it?

And busy with what? More TV binge watching and tweeting?

Now thats where i have to disagree.
The man is clearly a physical wonder-man.
Every year that passes, he adds two years to his life expectancy.
He is in the kind of physical shape we mere mortals can only dream of ever attaining.