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NetEnt has joined the the group of providers offering different RTP settings

Left is logged out, right after log-in.

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Find out more about NetEnt
Read more about this developer and find casinos with NetEnt slots
This is a strange one because I got a mate of mine to join VS a few weeks back and his weekend booster was this supposed new one, where you can cash out at any time. I didn't know what he was talking about until he sent me a pic. I just assumed it was different because he was doing bonus wagering or something. Mine's still the old one - up to £300 a day.

What in the name of fuck is this 'Save to your Vault' horseshit? How are they supposed to retain some of your winnings? Do they just pinch a few pence off your wins in-play from time to time? I'm fucking gobsmacked.
 
I struggle to understand how L&L can give 10% of losses back, if the house edge is roughly 5.5%, then payment fees etc, how can they give 10% back without making a loss?
I understand how a 100% bonus is different as most people bust out, but the 10% is cash and withdrawable.
 
CasinoNinja said:
And yes, they take 0.5% of your winnings, you can see that when you are winning something and not the entire winnings is added to your balance
Click to expand...

Is that legal, would be my first question? Especially, without informing you properly before you start to play. Because they do not credit you the full win which is rightly yours. What part of their T&Cs, regulations or laws covers that???? :confused:

I am truly gobsmacked TBH. This is the biggest pile of horseshite I have ever seen in over 2 decades of playing online. :puke:
 
CasinoNinja said:
And yes, they take 0.5% of your winnings, you can see that when you are winning something and not the entire winnings is added to your balance
Click to expand...
Well fuck me. I'm stunned. How come mine is still the old one though? I'm UK-based...
Also, the Bandit still has the old one too (as I'm sure do many other players...). Maybe if you joined before the change, they have to keep it like that, but new members have this other pile of shit instead?
 
Lemon said:
This is a strange one because I got a mate of mine to join VS a few weeks back and his weekend booster was this supposed new one, where you can cash out at any time. I didn't know what he was talking about until he sent me a pic. I just assumed it was different because he was doing bonus wagering or something. Mine's still the old one - up to £300 a day.

What in the name of fuck is this 'Save to your Vault' horseshit? How are they supposed to retain some of your winnings? Do they just pinch a few pence off your wins in-play from time to time? I'm fucking gobsmacked.
Click to expand...
Tell it as it is! Love anything like that
 
colinsunderland said:
I struggle to understand how L&L can give 10% of losses back, if the house edge is roughly 5.5%, then payment fees etc, how can they give 10% back without making a loss?
I understand how a 100% bonus is different as most people bust out, but the 10% is cash and withdrawable.
Click to expand...

You calculate that wrongly. Let's say you deposited 100 and wagered 1,000 with that. At 4% house edge that is 40 for the casino. They give you 10 as cashback, still got 30 in revenue.
 
colinsunderland said:
I struggle to understand how L&L can give 10% of losses back, if the house edge is roughly 5.5%, then payment fees etc, how can they give 10% back without making a loss?
I understand how a 100% bonus is different as most people bust out, but the 10% is cash and withdrawable.
Click to expand...
I got a ton withdrawal the other nite off it playing that explosito ex something 2.
It’s water free also. Can’t fault it.
 
Harry_BKK said:
You calculate that wrongly. Let's say you deposited 100 and wagered 1,000 with that. At 4% that is 40 for the casino. They give you 10 as cashback, still got 30 in revenue.
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It’s not on your wagering, only deposited amount harry. If you withdraw also it’s cancelled.
 
Harry_BKK said:
You calculate that wrongly. Let's say you deposited 100 and wagered 1,000 with that. At 4% house edge that is 40 for the casino. They give you 10 as cashback, still got 30 in revenue.
Click to expand...

Yes, I posted quickly as making tea :D Still, you have casinos crying poverty due to the tiny profit they make, but you get some who give loads back, like when Novibet gave me £41 cash after a £50 deposit/loss.
 
Kroffe said:
They can try to sweet-talk all they want about being fair and keeping their reputation.
They have already slithered down the greedy abyss from wich there is no return.

View attachment 128455
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Netent are simply, like any credible business, producing that which their customers demand. This shift by casinos toward lower RTP slots is simply a reflection of the times i.e. high taxation, very low margins and the high cost of attracting players via bonuses and affiliates. Before the word 'affiliates' is jumped upon, they are the most cost-effective and efficient way of getting new players especially compared to media advertising and Google clicks. Without them, many casinos would not offer bonuses at all or simply fold.
 
dunover said:
Netent are simply, like any credible business, producing that which their customers demand. This shift by casinos toward lower RTP slots is simply a reflection of the times i.e. high taxation, very low margins and the high cost of attracting players via bonuses and affiliates. Before the word 'affiliates' is jumped upon, they are the most cost-effective and efficient way of getting new player especially compared to media advertising and Google clicks.
Click to expand...
You think a casino not offering PnG, Netent, red tiger, pragmatic etc would get alot of players?
Providers choose to offer the lower versions, they dont have to.
 
But majority of casinos now no longer do that many promos and when they do send the odd promo email or spend money marketing on a new promo via affiliates, it is usually really bad ones like deposit X for a 10% or 25% match bonus or 10 spins on a 10p slot with what ever WR that particular casino has in place!

It is a sad state of affairs though that casinos cut cut cut, and stop running promos, remove loyalty programs and still then have to resort to reducing the RTP's of the slots they have available. I mean I totally understand casinos need to make money, but they still have a duty to look after their loyal players, keep fleecing them time and time again by more and more each time and turn just drives players away.

Eventually every casino will be the same with no promos, reduced RTP, More strict rules, delaying withdraws etc etc.... Soon there will be no casinos we can switch too when the casino we play at decides to follow suit.

I really do miss the good old days of 5 years ago, when pretty much every casino valued us as customers and we got inundated with emails and promos pretty much daily. Those days have gone. Just a total shame.
 
Only casinos I’ve had the odd match offer this month have been the white hat lot.
I’m expecting a ban tbh as withdrew a fair amount from small deposits.
The so called big hitters I’ve not even had a 40% match offer from.
Not even 10 free on starburst.
Is this due to taxation and the like or the fact they don’t want to be encouraging slot play in light of the pandemic?
 
colinsunderland said:
wow, loyalty well rewarded at Videoslots then :D

So from the list posted earlier

- weekend booster - we keep some of your money and give it back later
- battles - you have to wager a lot for and get 5 x 10p spins if you're lucky
- free spins - ? I never had those when I was playing there, must be a new thing
- fortune wheels - which you have to wager a fortune for, especially level 20-21
- wager free - not unique nowadays

:D
Click to expand...
Not only are the battle game values reduced to mostly 10p unless its for a share of £500 or a 30/60 battle ticket but the chances of gaining a position has at the very least 60% less than a few years ago.
Very often we would see 300-400 play in some battles each day. Now it can be up to about 2500 playing. On average the numbers playing has at the very least doubled.
Completing a battle with 140% rtp will not guarrantee you even 5 spins these days where as 100% used to at least guarantee you a few spins.
But Videoslots must have concluded that they can get away with it because they continue to grow
 
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geordiecolin said:
Not only are the battle game values reduced to mostly 10p unless its for a share of £500 or a 30/60 battle ticket but the chances of gaining a position has at the very least 60% less than a few years ago.
Very often we would see 300-400 play in some battles each day. Now it can be up to about 2500 playing. On average the numbers playing has at the very least doubled.
Completing a battle with 140% rtp these days will not guarrantee you even 5 spins these days where as 100% used to more at least guarantee you a few spins.
But Videoslots must have concluded that they can get away with it because they continue to grow
Click to expand...
Them 10p battles are a insult.
Never played at VS much as thought the rewards where massively overrated, when I did and qualified for the battles 5 free on some 10p game was a joke after the amount spent and wagered.
Don’t get me wrong great casino in terms of paying you, but the rewards are meh and the RTP issue makes them personally massively overrated.
 
geordiecolin said:
Not only are the battle game values reduced to mostly 10p unless its for a share of £500 or a 30/60 battle ticket but the chances of gaining a position has at the very least 60% less than a few years ago.
Very often we would see 300-400 play in some battles each day. Now it can be up to about 2500 playing. On average the numbers playing has at the very least doubled.
Completing a battle with 140% rtp these days will not guarrantee you even 5 spins these days where as 100% used to more at least guarantee you a few spins.
But Videoslots must have concluded that they can get away with it because they continue to grow
Click to expand...

They continue to grow, and that pretty fast as it seems.

I posted this earlier. Compared by the number of spins and amounts wagered on some of the most popular games, e.g. BOD, Bonanza etc.... they are in the top spot and have about double than the next casino in the ranking. Huge difference, surprised me that it was that much more.

Getting 5FS from a battle which then pay f*** all most of the time feels like winning the lottery nowadays. :lolup:
 
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Playford7 said:
Them 10p battles are a insult.
Never played at VS much as thought the rewards where massively overrated, when I did and qualified for the battles 5 free on some 10p game was a joke after the amount spent and wagered.
Don’t get me wrong great casino in terms of paying you, but the rewards are meh and the RTP issue makes them personally massively overrated.
Click to expand...
Over the past few years they have gone from being the gold standard of the casino world to being just another trusted site. It is only due to loyalty that I stick with them but these constant stealth changes make me want a divorce
 
Harry_BKK said:
They continue to grow, and that pretty fast as it seems.

I posted this earlier. Compared by the number of spins and amounts wagered on some of the most popular games, e.g. BOD, Bonanza etc.... they are in the top spot and have about double than the next casino in the ranking. Huge difference, surprised me that it was that much more.

Getting 5FS from a battle which then pay f*** all most of the time feels like winning the lottery nowadays. :lolup:
Click to expand...

Where are the stats from, playngo direct or third party software? Would love to see a country breakdown, as I would be surprised if any Maltese casino could beat the likes of GVC or Flutter.
 
colinsunderland said:
Where are the stats from, playngo direct or third party software? Would love to see a country breakdown, as I would be surprised if any Maltese casino could beat the likes of GVC or Flutter.
Click to expand...

I am sure overall, all brands of GVC or Flutter taken together will have more than VS.

I can only see the numbers per game per casino (not for every site but most larger ones). Got a source which I cannot share, sorry. :oops:
 
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colinsunderland said:
Where are the stats from, playngo direct or third party software? Would love to see a country breakdown, as I would be surprised if any Maltese casino could beat the likes of GVC or Flutter.
Click to expand...

You can see a much, much simplified version here: Link removed on order from the bear judge! :D
 
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Harry_BKK said:
I have no beef in that site. It was just to give an example. :D
Click to expand...
If im being honest, i dont really care all that much.
Just know that its frowned upon since i have linked the same site once. :P

But rules are rules, and you must now be sent to forum-jail.
repent.gif


pooh.webp
 
Wow, some valid points raised and another sneaky revelation about the rewards maybe.

Im off to watch a film but a couple of things before i go to bed.

For anyone mentioning about casinos struggling to make a profit and pay wages I struggle to understand the point as wages for staff per year are probably covered fairly quickly and judging by the standard of live chat the agents are ten to a penny.

I doubt any of these are struggling considering how quick they pop up.

As for Videoslots not seeing a decline yet this will take time. RTP reductions are a relatively new thing and VS, due to popularity and the time it wll take for more and more to become educated, probably wont see a reduction for another 6 months or so.

Very significant point raised about high rollers. The best casinos who offer the best products and service are here for the long haul. The ones reducing RTP are here for a quick buck IMO.
 
ChopleyIOM said:
Quick video....

Click to expand...


Thanks for the video Chops.

Lowering the RTP on Starburst is as evil as it gets...this is a game where it's nearly impossible to win enough to cash out because of its paytable. Doing that will save them no money, the only its doing here is stealing some of the playtime from their customers.

As for NetEnt, I can't be bothered looking at the help file everytime that I load a slot. I'll just avoid them.

Casinomeister should keep an updated list of casinos that keep higher RTP's and providers that don't offer a different range of RTP's.

There's got to be an incentive for the casinos and providers to be player friendly. I'd 100% get behind them and stick to them.
 
A lot seems to be forgotten in that the ABSOLUTE bottom line is no players, no casino yet they never seem to care about this when its cutback after cutback. Incentives and bonuses I can understand, RTP I never will when it comes to retention and keeping players.

Ah, then I see the light, experienced and seasoned players may well call it a day and say enough is enough but casinos in general can always prey on the addicts and part addicts and dress it all up to look as innocent as possible.

The casino industry day 1 - 2017 approx and the casino industry 2018 till present day are poles apart, sadly not in a good way at all!
 
Slottery said:
It also can be quite difficult to make accurate judgement based on one evening gameplay, gettin 20-40X winnings all the time is not really only like 2% higher RTP but good luck as well :) You can end up with really bad session as well with 94% or 98% TRTP, it's not change that much in hit frequency, size of winnings etc...

Happy that you had great session :) It's tested quite a lot when these different RTP:s started to come real subject for providers and in reality it's extremely tough to see that 2% difference in your gameplay, if you are given same starting balance to same game in 4 different places and one have 2% different RTP, there really haven't been people who could say for sure that this game is running other version than others.

When making these changes to RTP:s, of course game providers want to keep gameplay near as possible what it used to be and if you take 2% off, little from there and little from there, these differences are really not easy to spot for people who play slots a lot or knows them very well after working in industry and testing them a lot.

I recommend to give it a try, let some of your friend to pick you some casinos where you have no idea which RTP is and then try to figure it out by playing without checking help file, i believe is harder what many could think. If you know it beforehand, then you kind of expect different behavior and are tempt to easier to "see" that difference but really recommend to take blind test, can be done with play money as well as they run same version of game than real money.
Click to expand...

I know you wont notice a difference on a 2% change in rtp.
You probably wont notice a 10% change because as you say, basegame needs to be the same or atleast very close to the original or people will stop playing.
But if we notice it or not is not the point.
The difference is there even if we dont notice it.

Saying it does not matter if we play 94% or 96% is also wrong.
It matters.
Because every time anyone plays a slot with lower rtp, they are giving money and thereby supporting the casinos that choose to use lower rtp.

If everybody avoided slots with lower rtp like the plague, and made an effort to deposit at casinos using the max rtp for their slots maybe it would not be as enticing for those sites to lower the rtp.


Sadly, the amount of players that know&care about rtp is probably too small to make a difference.
I atleast, wont willfully make my chance to win smaller by playing lower rtp versions when there is a better option. Partly because i dont want to support the casinos lowering the rtp, but mostly because it makes zero sense.
 
Harry_BKK said:
Left is logged out, right after log-in.

View attachment 128570
Click to expand...

Yes same for me, but I don't class as a UK player at VS.

Can we nail it down to a territory or territories that get the 'We'll steal some of your winnings booster' when actually logged in?
 

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