Question Play 'n GO controversial RTP settings

slots-guide

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I am just wondering why nobody is talking about this major controversy? Or did I miss a thread somewhere else?

If it hasn't been brought up yet then I'm talking about the fact their slots have 4 or 5 different RTP values at different casinos. Take Book of Dead for example:

Leo Vegas / Redbet / Green and loads more casinos "The RTP is 96.21%."

Cruise / Sloty and a fair few casinos "The RTP is 94.25%."

Cashmio / Rizk / GUTS and all the MTST (and the Direx NV group) group and more = the RTP has been removed from their help files, rumour has it there is an 89% RTP version of PnG slots and these MT Secure casinos seem to play terribly compared to ones stating the higher RTP. They used to run the 94% version before switching to the hidden RTP versions. One has to assume they are taking the lowest version?

This also applies to UK players who also are forced to the Curacao servers for their (MTST) Play n Go slots (you can check this in the address the games load under). And considering the UKGC rules regarding transparency of RTP listings and also taking into account Cashmio on one part of their website stated 96.21% when they were in fact using the 94.25% version... this all seems a liittle fishy to me.

Perhaps an expert like @dunover or @Casinomeister can confirm a few things? (Feel free to merge or delete if this is old news).
 
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dunover

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Yes, this has come up before and I contacted Petter at PNG who confirmed the PNG slots can be operator-set for various markets, unlike most developers except RTG. This is OK as long as the game has the correct RTP stated in its rules, which they should have as PNG set them up this way.

P.S. You're right and that is BANG OUT OF ORDER! I've just checked Rizk for example and usually you press the '?' on PNG slots for the info which will have RTP % at the bottom and this appears to have been cut out or truncated. Naughty, naughty, very very naughty! :mad:

Go to my page here:
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Which has all the 'factory' RTP figures (maximum) for PNG slots. Then compare this figure with your casino, if they are not concealing it.
 
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bebo67

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I e-mailed Play N Go about this maybe a month ago? I also went to Dan and made him aware of the changes, he said he was going to contact them. I don't know what the hell is going on with them ( playngo) , but since they got rid of flash its been a noticeable discrepancy in plays.
 

bebo67

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Yes, this has come up before and I contacted Petter at PNG who confirmed the PNG slots can be operator-set for various markets, unlike most developers except RTG. This is OK as long as the game has the correct RTP stated in its rules, which they should have as PNG set them up this way.

P.S. You're right and that is BANG OUT OF ORDER! I've just checked Rizk for example and usually you press the '?' on PNG slots for the info which will have RTP % at the bottom and this appears to have been cut out or truncated. naughty, naughty, very very naughty! :mad:
I was told the same when they replied back, but seriously, its so many dead spins in a row and then maybe a dollar over bet amount, then repeat.
 

slots-guide

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Thanks Dunover. Well I guess even if it has been mentioned before it doesn't do any harm to highlight it again for anyone who missed the discussion before. Definitely avoid playing anywhere the PnG slots are not showing the default (higher) RTP's.
 

bebo67

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I just checked Gemix @ VS and Crazy Vegas. VS has it set at 96.75rtp, and Crazy Vegas doesnt show, but oddly enough, I have a better play at Crazy Vegas. :confused:
 

trancemonkey

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If they are not displaying the RTP to the players then they are in breach of the UKGC guidelines and you should report the fact to the rep here. If they fail to correct this I would report them to the UKGC.
 

colinsunderland

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If they are not displaying the RTP to the players then they are in breach of the UKGC guidelines and you should report the fact to the rep here. If they fail to correct this I would report them to the UKGC.

I was just going to post that before I got to the end of the thread. :)
 

colinsunderland

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Yes, this has come up before and I contacted Petter at PNG who confirmed the PNG slots can be operator-set for various markets, unlike most developers except RTG. This is OK as long as the game has the correct RTP stated in its rules, which they should have as PNG set them up this way.

P.S. You're right and that is BANG OUT OF ORDER! I've just checked Rizk for example and usually you press the '?' on PNG slots for the info which will have RTP % at the bottom and this appears to have been cut out or truncated. Naughty, naughty, very very naughty! :mad:

Go to my page here:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Which has all the 'factory' RTP figures (maximum) for PNG slots. Then compare this figure with your casino, if they are not concealing it.

I just checked it on Rizk and its in the help files as 96.21?
 

brianmon

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If they are not displaying the RTP to the players then they are in breach of the UKGC guidelines and you should report the fact to the rep here. If they fail to correct this I would report them to the UKGC.

Well, show me a Microgaming paytable or help file, or anything else which is 'attached; to the game, which shows the RTP.
Even though it was reported to the UKGC, almost 2 years ago
 

trancemonkey

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The RTS (Remote Technical Standards) requirement 3C of the Remote gambling and software technical standards June 2017 states:

RTS requirement 3C For each virtual event, game (including bingo), or lottery, information that may reasonably be expected to enable the customer to make an informed decision about his or her chances of winning must be easily available before the customer commits to gamble. Information must include: i. a description of the way the game works and the way in which winners are determined and prizes allocated ii. house edge (or margin) iii. the return to player (RTP) percentage or iv. the probability (likelihood) of winning events occurring.

I've just checked Immortal Romance on @TradaCasino and i can't find any of this information anywhere, so i've PM'd them and asked for it :)
 

Captain Rizk

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I just checked it on Rizk and its in the help files as 96.21?

Many providers offer a range of RTP's for their games (take IGT for example) as a matter of course we take the highest available RTP's. In fact as a matter of policy we aim not to add ANY games to the Rizk site with an RTP lower than 95%.

The help files are provided as part of the games solution by the Game provider, I will check all the help files from PnG this week and if the RTP is missing then i will speak to PnG and ensure that it is available.
 

budskap

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The RTS (Remote Technical Standards) requirement 3C of the Remote gambling and software technical standards June 2017 states:

RTS requirement 3C For each virtual event, game (including bingo), or lottery, information that may reasonably be expected to enable the customer to make an informed decision about his or her chances of winning must be easily available before the customer commits to gamble. Information must include: i. a description of the way the game works and the way in which winners are determined and prizes allocated ii. house edge (or margin) iii. the return to player (RTP) percentage or iv. the probability (likelihood) of winning events occurring.

I've just checked Immortal Romance on @TradaCasino and i can't find any of this information anywhere, so i've PM'd them and asked for it :)

Trada links to this in the bonus terms:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 

dunover

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I just checked it on Rizk and its in the help files as 96.21?
I have reviewed many PNG games and the RTP is always in the info under the '?' button. It wasn't when I checked. I would imagine Rizk would have the factory RTP anyway.
 

Captain Rizk

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Yes, this has come up before and I contacted Petter at PNG who confirmed the PNG slots can be operator-set for various markets, unlike most developers except RTG. This is OK as long as the game has the correct RTP stated in its rules, which they should have as PNG set them up this way.

P.S. You're right and that is BANG OUT OF ORDER! I've just checked Rizk for example and usually you press the '?' on PNG slots for the info which will have RTP % at the bottom and this appears to have been cut out or truncated. Naughty, naughty, very very naughty! :mad:

Go to my page here:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Which has all the 'factory' RTP figures (maximum) for PNG slots. Then compare this figure with your casino, if they are not concealing it.


Which slot in particular Dunover? I can find the RTP in the help files of the ones that i have checked - they do have a pretty big back catalogue so if you can narrow it down for me, that would help
 

SlotGrinder

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Even with rtp in small numbers in the info it's still a disgusting practise . These games are a "well known brand" effectively so it's like buying a familiar product and actually receiving an inferior product . And the worst of it is most people would never know since they'd assume the game was the same as they had experienced at other casinos . Like buyin jaffa cakes from poundland and later realising you only get 10 in a pack rather than 12 (wasn't there a thread about this somewhere haha)
 

smart_croatia

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yesterday on twitch someone sad that PNG (casino) that operates under Curacao license can set rtp under 90%, he even ask live chat and got confirmation weird... i forgot name of the casino
 

orion

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Many providers offer a range of RTP's for their games (take IGT for example) as a matter of course we take the highest available RTP's. In fact as a matter of policy we aim not to add ANY games to the Rizk site with an RTP lower than 95%.

The help files are provided as part of the games solution by the Game provider, I will check all the help files from PnG this week and if the RTP is missing then i will speak to PnG and ensure that it is available.

Thank you Captain.
So far, if memory serves, I read here on CM forum about this "offer" of different ranges of RTPs with the following providers:
- RTG
- Play'n'Go
- ITG

Is it possible to know which other providers are offering their games this way ?
 

dunover

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Which slot in particular Dunover? I can find the RTP in the help files of the ones that i have checked - they do have a pretty big back catalogue so if you can narrow it down for me, that would help
From the UK not logged in I can only see 1 PNG slots and that's 7 Sins.
From this the RTP appears to be missing? (This is the WHOLE visible page)
z7sins.jpg
 

SpinUk

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Slightly off top, but I find it amusing that these are a strict mandatory legal requirement - and have been for some time. And yet we now have reps looking up and down for a particular help file that does contain the mandatory RTP information - “hmm i’m sure I’ve seen it somehere” - and i’m by no means singling out Rizk for this - as we have seen many Casinos seem to have not have this information readily available.

These are of course the very same casinos that are requesting very personal financial information like unsanitised bank statements and employee payslips and with the assurances that all information will be kept strictly secure and in legal accordance with the Data Protection Act.

So bearing in mind the sloppy way the first seems to have been dealt with, forgive my cynicism in how seriously your going to be take your legal obligations on the use and storage access of the latter info.
 

lotusch

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I stopped playing Play n Go ... I have had horrible horrible results on their slots and tbh I cba to check the RTP settings on every casino I'd play them.
That a slots RTP can be tampered with is a bad story on it's own.
I just want to play a slot in casino a,b,c knowing they all have the same RTP so I know what to expect.
If you develop slots and offer the opportunity to set the games at 90% or less is shocking.

The Book of Dead is the only slot I have ever won big on.
All their other slots are utter vile rubbish with examples as Mystery Joker and Hugo 2.
Pure horror.
 

slotter999

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I think this thread does a good job of highlighting exactly why having multiple RTP versions is bad news for the player.

It's all well and good the odd casino popping up and saying we'll always use the highest RTP version of the game....until they don't of course...and they are not obliged to tell you anyway....and you will always check the help file before playing right?

I personally think the provider is the one causing the problem by creating the circumstances in the first place. I believe one of the explanations for doing this is "different markets require different rtp" but this is clearly none the case in the UK for example where it must surely be a financial decision on behalf of the casino.

I am fairly certain that I myself have been 'duped' by this multiple RTP malarky. I've written several threads about golden ticket and my absolute conviction at the time that it played entirely different at 20p a spin Vs £40 a spin. I'm now reasonably sure the massive disparity is a result of playing different rtp versions of the same game.

The question I'm now asking myself is how can this multiple RTP thing be made more transparent for the player? I mean as far as I'm aware PnG do not make publicly available all of the RTP versions of the game but they will have to certify each one with the UKGC. I wonder if something like this could used as leverage to get the UKGC to be more open about exactly what they are accepting as certified. Hmmmm.
 

lockinlove

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The problem with this is alot of players assume a slot machine is probably the same across all casinos. You play game of thrones in one, you get the same game in another.

I would never have imagined awhile ago that some slot providers can pick their rtp.

I think casino cruise, spinit, vegas hero and sloty are pathetic to lower all their PnG slots lower than almost everywhere else. Really shameful to be honest. They dont have to foot the same bills as land based casino but they are setting their rtp pretty damn close to them.
 
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