My latest Rival experience....I'm done

[RockbetJohn]

I looked into the accounts and had security get back to me. They told me multiple accounts were involved but I'm chatting with the player at the moment to clear things up.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I looked into the accounts and had security get back to me. They told me multiple accounts were involved but I'm chatting with the player at the moment to clear things up.

Funny, this was NEVER a problem until the OP got a NEW COMPUTER

Then, suddenly it was a MASSIVE problem. The OP did NOT create ANY new accounts, merely logged in using EXISTING details. The number of accounts being UNCHANGED between play on the OLD computer and play on the NEW computer.

Further, it was ONLY when downloading to the NEW computer that the accounts were locked, and then it was EVERY TIME, not just once or twice.

Whatever "multiple accounts" existed, they existed BEFORE the player changed computers, so why didn't they find accounts getting locked out then?


Now, digging a bit deeper.

I've played almost all the Rivals...won some...lost some so it isn't about winning or losing.

Regrettably your account was automatically locked by the security system because you are linked to too many duplicate accounts within Rival powered casinos.

Now, this isn't about "duplicate accounts" in the traditional sense, as in:-

As by the user agreement, only one account per casino per household/computer/ip is allowed

This is that infamous "central database" up to more mischief. This NOT about a player having more than one account PER INDIVIDUAL CASINO, it is about a player playing at TOO MANY CASINOS THAT HAPPEN TO BE USING RIVAL SOFTWARE, more of a "too many accounts in the network" scenario. There is probably yet another parameter in this mischievous database that sets a ceiling on the number of accounts an individual player can have at Rival software powered casinos as a whole.

Further proof this was about too many accounts at the NETWORK level, and not with individual Rival "skins" is garnered from this experiment:-

also tried an experiment with the new Vegas Days. Never downloaded before only on the new computer. Signed up....account locked.

Clearly ONLY a single account at Vegas Days, but the NETWORK - a different matter, maximum already breached, and tried to open yet another account on top at a new "skin" - thus network lock triggered immediately.

With the rapid deployment of new and so called "independent" Rival casinos, this parameter is getting breached more and more often. This is looking very much like the Cassava (888.com) operation, where what APPEAR to be a fairly large number of INDEPENDENT casinos, are in fact ONE casino overlain by a large number of "white label" skins. I recall that there are only TWO MAIN OPERATORS behind almost ALL Rival powered casinos, plus a few truly independent ones, like SlotoCash (so explaining why this problem did NOT affect SlotoCash in the same disastrous manner).

If a player has played at "almost all Rival casinos", they probably DO have MANY accounts through the various "white label" skins with both these main operators.

Quite why this was ONLY picked up when there was a change of computer is baffling, but it should be a WARNING as to the direction "policy" is taking at Rival at the SOFTWARE level.

The fact that these machinations are completely ILLOGICAL, and mostly ROBOTIC in nature, with it seeming to be IMPOSSIBLE for a "mere human" to use a bit of common sense and even EXPLAIN what is going on, let alone FIX things where the robotic database has got it wrong, and merely upgrading to a different computer to play the SAME accounts is definitely such a case.

What IS now becoming clear is that you most certainly are NOT allowed to play at "almost all the Rivals", and the more Rivals a player plays at, the more likely they are to trigger these lockdowns and bonus bans.

I have read many posts complaining about bonus bans and locked accounts, and one thing in common the complainants have is accounts at MANY DIFFERENT Rival casinos, whereas the ones who have little to complain about play at relatively FEW Rival casinos.

Once you get their attention, it seems the "review" that takes place is at the Network level, and here they decide how many different "skins" they will NOW let you play at.

Been there, I think that the Rival system automatically locks you out, and it is up to the particular casino management to decide whether you are worth opening the account back up. I had my accounts locked across them all except Slotocash, and only a few of them allowed me to have my account reinstated. Mayan Fortune was not one of them, they refused, along with several others. I don't understand it, and never will. I had been a depositing player at all of them.

Again, references to quite a few (too many?) accounts across the Rival portfolio getting whittled down at the network level to a more acceptable level.

"...across them all except Slotocash" and " only a few of them allowed me......reinstated".

Quite how this is decided is a mystery, but when it is about different skins and a single operator, individual casinos do NOT "lose out" by saying "no", and the overriding operator does not lose out on potential profit by giving a mixture of "yes" and "no" replies through individual managers for account reinstatement.
This might be an alternative to a network wide "bonus ban" followed by a few individual, seemingly independent, casinos reinstating bonuses.

 

[NicolasJohnson]

@ oldtrvlagt and paulcr

I'm sorry we made a mistake with your accounts. I found them closed in our back end. I just wanted to pop by and tell you they have been re-opened and you will find a $50 Free Chip in your cashier as an apology for the whole issue. :notworthy

Sorry I missed this thread.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

 

[Nifty29]

Nicolas, you continue to provide great Customer Service and assistance to those players at CM who have had issue at Vegas Regal - well done!

I think its fantastic that he put $50 in those accounts to say sorry and recognize the inconvenience those players suffered.

In contrast, after my MONTH-LONG issue of being completely ignored and lied to by Rockbet, you know what I was given??

ZIP. NADA. NUTHIN.

(unless you count blaming some nameless person and posting some clear untruths)

..and most of you know just how bad that situation was.

I hope anyone reading this compares the Vegas Regal response to a MINOR problem with the Rockbet response to a MAJOR problem and draws the inevitable conclusion.

 

[chuchu59]

It seems that Rockbet is so scared that Nifty will be able to cash out on a free chip (100x playthrough) that they wont do anything as a token of apology him. Taking advantage of a system error or whatever it is to confiscate players' winnings is downright cheap imo.

In the past all Rival casinos except sloto can be tarred with the same brush. However, some Rivals seem to have seen the light and customer satisfaction is one of their priorities. Vegas Regal is stepping in the right direction though they could now look at the speediness of the ridiculous 4-5 day pending withdrawal period if they treasure their customers.

 

[vinylweatherman]

@ oldtrvlagt and paulcr

I'm sorry we made a mistake with your accounts. I found them closed in our back end. I just wanted to pop by and tell you they have been re-opened and you will find a $50 Free Chip in your cashier as an apology for the whole issue. :notworthy

Sorry I missed this thread.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

WHY is this happening. It is UTTER NONSENSE. How the HELL does upgrading your PC result in all the alarm bells going off in your "back end". These players didn't meet with such sensible approaches from OTHER Rivals, who started handing out accusations of "multiple accounts", and WILL NOT SEE SENSE that it was a mistake - a cock-up where upgrading to a new PC messed up the anti-fraud system.

WE can have NO CONFIDENCE in the fairness of an anti-fraud system that acts in this irrational manner when faced with VERY LEGITIMATE matters such as a player getting a new PC. What is WORSE is that in some cases WINNINGS can be CONFISCATED WITHOUT APPEAL based on these "flags", and even where NO winnings are involved, even though the player is INNOCENT, and a MISTAKE found in the Rival "back end", there are other Rival casinos that STILL insist the player is GUILTY despite evidence to the contrary.

There is clearly something SERIOUSLY WRONG with the automated fraud detection systems, which probably means they have been programmed on a FALSE PREMISE of how to detect incoming fraud events, perhaps based on a flawed model of how the internet, ISPs, client machines, and destination servers, interact in the REAL WORLD, rather than the THEORETICAL DESIGN MODEL of the internet.

For example, there are STILL those misguided fools in the industry that believe in the THEORETICAL notion of PERMANENT and STATICALLY ASSIGNED client IP addresses. Completely FALSE for most PERSONAL customers, there simply are not enough unique IP addresses to go around, and ISPs now dynamically allocate IP addresses from a pool each time a modem, INCLUDING broadband, is switched on. Eventually, as the industry expands, you will get TWO (or more) players at the SAME casino within the same ISP "pool", and there may come a time when they are allocated with each other's dynamic IP address, and play at the same casino. This might SEEM to indicate these players are "connected", but they are not.

ANOTHER factor is SECOND HAND PCs, this creates completely spurious "connections" between the PREVIOUS owner, and the CURRENT owner. This is to be expected, since even after considerable refurbishment before resale, if it is same motherboard, it will retain it's original MAC address.

MANY people cannot afford NEW computers, so buy refurbished machines instead, which are often more than good enough for "the internet", at a fraction of the cost. Just because they gamble, it does NOT mean they throw their money around in all aspects of their lifestyle.

There is even the FACT that people move house occasionally, and rarely do they give the prospective purchaser a list of casinos they have had accounts at, and where the new purchaser will undoubtedly face enhanced scrutiny were they also to register as a new player - which they genuinely are in most cases. The purchaser will NOT therefore see the need to "sort it out with CS" before opening an account, they will read the terms, and know they comply with them.

Other casinos get things wrong, but Rival are so damn "trigger happy" with their fraud flags, and so INCAPABLE of taking a common sense approach to reviewing the automated decision, preferring instead to consider the system infallible.

 

[Nifty29]

Other casinos get things wrong, but Rival are so damn "trigger happy" with their fraud flags, and so INCAPABLE of taking a common sense approach to reviewing the automated decision, preferring instead to consider the system infallible.

Good point.

Its interesting to note that the most successful Rival casinos are the ones that dont rely solely on the backend promo/fraud systems e.g. SlotoCash and now Vegas Regal.

In fact, Ive shifted some of my play to Vegas Regal now as Im so impressed with the efforts of Nicolas here - now if we could only make the payouts faster....Nicolas???

 

[10pins]

rival casinos

they just want to give bonuses but they don't want to pay. we got 2 new computers. tom played at a rival casino but they won't pay him. apparently my daughter has played at that casino. (club casino) she used our old computer. he did not even know it. they could have denied him the game before he played. they llet him cash out and everything. later sent a message that there was a duplicate account. he put his address in to begin with. why didn't they just check it out then. no good

 

[vinylweatherman]

they just want to give bonuses but they don't want to pay. we got 2 new computers. tom played at a rival casino but they won't pay him. apparently my daughter has played at that casino. (club casino) she used our old computer. he did not even know it. they could have denied him the game before he played. they llet him cash out and everything. later sent a message that there was a duplicate account. he put his address in to begin with. why didn't they just check it out then. no good

More stupidity, strictly more than one account per household, but this is an UNREASONABLE term in such circumstances. Is not your daughter ENTITLED to her PRIVACY as an ADULT, and by not paying your husband, your daughters right to privacy has been DISREGARDED, since maybe she didn't WANT her parents to know she gambled a little online. This is NOT "common sense", there are MANY households with MORE that one adult, in fact this is probably the MAJORITY of households.

It should be up to the system to spot the duplicate addresses STRAIGHT AWAY, and lock down the account for review before a deposit is even POSSIBLE. The system supposedly cannot act this fast, yet it CAN act LIGHTNING fast when a player merely uses their OLD account on a new PC.

It looks like they have NOT implemented prior checking at this level when there is a potential DEPOSIT coming, and of course, if your husband had LOST, he would never have known he would not have been paid, and may have continued to deposit under this false impression. The casino CANNOT lose under these circumstances, but it CAN win by ONLY checking for this at time of withdrawal.

Don't any of the managers of these casinos have any idea what "family" and "household" are all about, and how it works in the REAL world.

This kind of behaviour from casinos only serves to convince the player community that much of this "rampant fraud" is nothing more than "normal honest conduct" in the real world, with ACTUAL fraud (in the sense of someone DELIBERATELY setting out to deceive casinos) being overrepresented by inclusion of all these cases where Dad and Daughter, or Husband and Wife really had no idea each other gambled, let alone chose the same casino. Add this to all the misfires due to "real world" internet against "theory", and how much REAL fraud is involved, and how much "fraud" is really down to terms that are often impossible for any player to be CERTAIN to have abided by, because the actions of others NOT "connected" to them in a conspiratorial sense are involved (such as bought a house of a player, or an old PC from one, or even having a "cheap" ISP with a very limited pool of IP addresses creating many spurious connections).

 

[NicolasJohnson]

More stupidity, strictly more than one account per household, but this is an UNREASONABLE term in such circumstances. Is not your daughter ENTITLED to her PRIVACY as an ADULT, and by not paying your husband, your daughters right to privacy has been DISREGARDED, since maybe she didn't WANT her parents to know she gambled a little online. This is NOT "common sense", there are MANY households with MORE that one adult, in fact this is probably the MAJORITY of households.

It should be up to the system to spot the duplicate addresses STRAIGHT AWAY, and lock down the account for review before a deposit is even POSSIBLE. The system supposedly cannot act this fast, yet it CAN act LIGHTNING fast when a player merely uses their OLD account on a new PC.

It looks like they have NOT implemented prior checking at this level when there is a potential DEPOSIT coming, and of course, if your husband had LOST, he would never have known he would not have been paid, and may have continued to deposit under this false impression. The casino CANNOT lose under these circumstances, but it CAN win by ONLY checking for this at time of withdrawal.

Don't any of the managers of these casinos have any idea what "family" and "household" are all about, and how it works in the REAL world.

This kind of behaviour from casinos only serves to convince the player community that much of this "rampant fraud" is nothing more than "normal honest conduct" in the real world, with ACTUAL fraud (in the sense of someone DELIBERATELY setting out to deceive casinos) being overrepresented by inclusion of all these cases where Dad and Daughter, or Husband and Wife really had no idea each other gambled, let alone chose the same casino. Add this to all the misfires due to "real world" internet against "theory", and how much REAL fraud is involved, and how much "fraud" is really down to terms that are often impossible for any player to be CERTAIN to have abided by, because the actions of others NOT "connected" to them in a conspiratorial sense are involved (such as bought a house of a player, or an old PC from one, or even having a "cheap" ISP with a very limited pool of IP addresses creating many spurious connections).

Well your posts, as well as our experience with this:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/vegas-regal-vs-kermfrog.33835/

Has prompted us to change our policy. No longer will duplicate accounts be blocked automatically (expect in extreme circumstances, like a charge back player). From now on, if we see duplicate accounts that raise bonus abuse red flags, we will go over it manually, to ensure we treat all our players fairly! :notworthy

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

 

[amatrine]

I guess I am lucky. My computer died and I just bought a new one.
I went into one of my rivals, and loaded and it came up no problem.
Do not know if that will be the case for all of them, but so far so good.

That sucks that happened to you. If I have any issues will let you know. I have only loaded one so far.

Ama

 

[snoddy]

Anxious.

I too have had problems which are still ongoing. I have had several Rival accounts but following a withdrawal at one of them I lost all promotions apart from Slotocash. I complained only to be told I had multiple accounts at one or more - complete rubbish. I do play with 3 computers in the house.
I now have several accounts that are locked also. If I open a new account I do not recieve any promotions.
However I must say that Sloto have never bonus banned or locked my account.
Strangely enough I recently opened an account at Vanguard. I did not get the free chip offer but they have offered me some bonuses. I have made several deposits some with bonuses. My last depost I managed to win quite a lot on money thanks to 3 little yellow space ships on Cosmic quest 2. - I did not use a bonus. I made the withdrawal on the 7/10. Its still being processed. Having read through previous issues on the forum I am a little nervous about the withdrawal. Will I get my money ! I usually get an email asking for docs but not this time. So I sent them anyway. I also contacted live chat asking them to confirm receipt of the docs as I have never heard anything. They did confirm.
So we shall see. I do realise they usually make most of their 5 business day policy for payouts - why I dont know. Sloto take less than 24 hours. I once had to wait 8 business days for a rival casino to pay out.
Watch this space.

 

[nisosbar]

I too have had problems which are still ongoing. I have had several Rival accounts but following a withdrawal at one of them I lost all promotions apart from Slotocash. I complained only to be told I had multiple accounts at one or more - complete rubbish. I do play with 3 computers in the house.
I now have several accounts that are locked also. If I open a new account I do not recieve any promotions.
However I must say that Sloto have never bonus banned or locked my account.
Strangely enough I recently opened an account at Vanguard. I did not get the free chip offer but they have offered me some bonuses. I have made several deposits some with bonuses. My last depost I managed to win quite a lot on money thanks to 3 little yellow space ships on Cosmic quest 2. - I did not use a bonus. I made the withdrawal on the 7/10. Its still being processed. Having read through previous issues on the forum I am a little nervous about the withdrawal. Will I get my money ! I usually get an email asking for docs but not this time. So I sent them anyway. I also contacted live chat asking them to confirm receipt of the docs as I have never heard anything. They did confirm.
So we shall see. I do realise they usually make most of their 5 business day policy for payouts - why I dont know. Sloto take less than 24 hours. I once had to wait 8 business days for a rival casino to pay out.
Watch this space.

Did you get paid?