MrVegas (Videoslots) refusing CrazyTime bonus

[ads2003uk]

The 8wks passed on 3rd Jun.
They claim they are looking at it again as I was not happy with their response and provided further information (not true as they had everything previously nothing new)
It's the final position/deadlock that I'm trying to get out them and it doesn't seem to be forthcoming no matter what I say or request.

The CS is a shit show - you get sweet fa out of them.
I've never known a company that has a CS department that can not communicate directly with other departments.

 

[justdoit]

The 8wks passed on 3rd Jun.
They claim they are looking at it again as I was not happy with their response and provided further information (not true as they had everything previously nothing new)
It's the final position/deadlock that I'm trying to get out them and it doesn't seem to be forthcoming no matter what I say or request.

The CS is a shit show - you get sweet fa out of them.
I've never known a company that has a CS department that can not communicate directly with other departments.

try your luck with MGA they could refuse to help coz you are UKGC costumer, but will cost nothing to try

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[neilw]

Afraid I doubt the UKGC will do anything, they have no real interest in helping the average player.

I wouldn't know where to take the issue next. It seems you have been given your explanation and final decision by Evo.

Perhaps @neilw may be able to advise or shed some light.

Hard to believe the system failed and allowed you to place a bet if there were insufficient funds. I just didn't think the systems would allow it.

I'm afraid I can't help. The relationship a player has is with the online casino, not the game provider - Evolution or any provider are unlikely to enter into dialogue directly with a player.

In my opinion, there is a fundamental flaw with what a player sees and experiences sometimes with what is being recorded in the background. The game provider and the casino can only see things from a backend perspective - i.e. looking at the game logs. They, of course, are black and white - either something happened, or it didn't, and therefore it's hard to dispute.

They can't see the game lag a player experiences or how the images don't match the sounds or actions you're taking.

I've played some games, and the lag is horrendous - I've since discovered the problems were with my browser and not my connection or anything else. It's taken me months to diagnose it finally. As for sorting it out, I've had to stop using my browser on that particular computer as no amount of re-installing has worked.

I guess where I'm getting to is I think you are both right. You experienced A, and they see B. Unfortunately, I don't know how that gets resolved other than the casino making a goodwill gesture.

 

[ads2003uk]

I noticed on the IBAS site there is a piece of text that relates to Online casino (under example) which states:
"If it emerged that the bets had been communicated to the operator but somehow not fed into the game (e.g. if it was operated by a third party) the Panel would consider whether it was fair to deny a customer any winnings that he or she might otherwise have achieved."

I'm hoping that once I get my Deadlock letter, IBAS can see by way of the evidence I've submitted that the Third party maybe at fault and therefore would make their decision on that.

 

[ads2003uk]

Contacted IBAS - their advice give them another fortnight!
Contacted UKGC - "these issues can be lengthy, we can't do anything but would be interested in seeing your full complaint"

It's responses like this that just make a person feel depressed that the Governing bodies really don't give a flying f###.

84 days (12wks/3mths) since date of issue occured and complaint raised.
Soon be Christmas

 

[ads2003uk]

FINALLY!!!!!
I have their Final Decision to take to IBAS:

"Thanks for your reply, and apologizes for the delayed response.

Firstly, we would like to again express that your request for payment of £3,800 has been rejected. As outlined in a previous response to this matter, we do acknowledge that your current balance displayed within the game was incorrect due to for technical errors.
However, as was explained previously as well, your account did in reality not have the required funds to place the bet, and it was as such rejected by the game.
We do not see you have grounds for any potential winnings, or claimed potential winnings, from this bet, as firstly, there was no bet and no money was deducted, and secondly, said bet could never have happened due to the insufficient balance you actually had.

We will however offer you a goodwill payment of £380 (10% of claimed potential win) in this case, due to the understandable inconvenience the situation has caused, and the unfortunate long waiting times you've experienced.
Note that £3,800 is not a confirmed potential win, as the game requires a selecting on player's end, which cannot be confirmed, as there was no completed bet.

Please confirm for us if you wish to receive this credited to your Mr Vegas account balance.

Note that this is our final decision and the end of our internal complaint process. If you wish to pursue this matter further with an independent ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution), players residing in the UK should contact the Independent Betting Adjudication Service (IBAS)."

So whilst I'm pleased I've got final decision and now can go to IBAS, I'm now confused.

If they are 100% sure that I'm not owed a single penny then why offer 10% of the winnings?

"A game requires a selecting on the players end, which can not be confirmed" well the screen shots show that the full game round was played and I was able to select the Yellow flapper/wedge thingy.

Has anyone ever had anything like this before? A good will gesture that is 10% of in their view unentitled winnings?

 

[Video_Poker_Pro]

Go all the way! They are trying to compensate you for there own fault.

 

[pinnit2014]

Not sure about casino's but certainly in the UK many of the payday lenders would offer a goodwill payment to not go to a regulator etc. For those that refused it and went, by and large, they normally got back their full claim. Perhaps they're unsure what IBAS would rule on and ergo, 380 is their way of trying to reduce liability etc

Personally, if you can take the hit of 380 quid and don't need it urgently, i'd just let it go to IBAS.

 

[ads2003uk]

Not sure about casino's but certainly in the UK many of the payday lenders would offer a goodwill payment to not go to a regulator etc.

Certainly know about that, 4 pdl's all did the same during lockdown - nice unaffordability redress came my way before they all went bump ?

My first thought was WTF, and then read the reasoning and then thought they are trying to pull the will/play cover up here.

If it's a case of take the £380 with potential of losing it if unsuccessful then oh well, so be it.
In by book a "good will gesture" is an admission of guilt by these large companies

 

[justdoit]

they made offer to you 10% maybe you should replay with your offer of 50% if they refuse you, you can still go to ADR

 

[goatwack]

£380 is derisory, and an admission of sorts that something was amiss on their end, clearly. Makes one wonder how convenient it is for casinos to pull the 'Malfunction voids all pays' card when it suits, with most players perhaps not screenshotting and documenting what happened.

So as it stands, 10% of something that they had no control over is either a gracious gesture of understanding, or a tacit Hail Mary on their part.

I wouldn't suggest whether a player accepts that amount or not, as I'm sure many would still consider that 'better than nothing' and a good result overall. But for me, £380 ain't it. Throw on top 25 spins on Starburst however.....

 

[pinnit2014]

It's like horse trading - 380 v 3800. They offer sub 90% slots so i can't imagine they're rooting round in a Foodbank for the weekly shop

 

[ads2003uk]

they made offer to you 10% maybe you should replay with your offer of 50% if they refuse you, you can still go to ADR

That would mean another 8weeks waiting

So as it stands, 10% of something that they had no control over is either a gracious gesture of understanding, or a tacit Hail Mary on their part.

Exactly, they say no control over so why would they want to give away £380 if they are that sure of them selves

 

[pinnit2014]

380 is peanuts in the scheme of nearly 4k. Aye, you may need to wait 8 weeks or so but i'd rather wait that than take the 380 without trying.

Like i said personal circumstances dictate if that's attractive or not...and they know that

 

[ads2003uk]

I'm certainly trying.
Just wanted peoples opinions - on why would they make a "gesture" when the claim they have no liability.
Email has gone off to IBAS so hopefully it will be quicker than MrVegas

 

[paul7388]

I'm certainly trying.
Just wanted peoples opinions - on why would they make a "gesture" when the claim they have no liability.
Email has gone off to IBAS so hopefully it will be quicker than MrVegas

Maybe they made the offer as they know IBAS will rule against them.

Or maybe they just offered it as a genuine gesture as a way of making up for the distress the error caused and for the time it took to get answers.

I know nothing about this case so not going to go into it in anyway. Just thought i would say that sometimes casinos do offer decent compensation for time took to look into things and for inconvenience caused. I know i have had £100 before and £50 etc. as gestures of goodwill for time took to resolve matters . For instance a well known brand a game stuck in bonus round. They kept me updated and were in regular contact with the provider. But took weeks to get game unstuck. They initially gave me £20 as gesture of goodwill and few weeks later they emailed me with an apology and told me i had £100 in account as another gesture of goodwill. And this was not their fault and they were doing best to solve it.

That was years ago but shows even when not at fault casinos may offer goodwill gestures. They might have decided that due to the screenshots and way it seemed to allow the bet due to an error in the system that it was not fair on you and are doing as they say offering you a goodwill gesture. But not admitting any fault as it was an error out of their hands and not a winning hand according to provider.

Like i say no idea who is right or wrong. Whether you will win or not. Just merely showing casinos can and do offer goodwill gestures simply as gestures and they do not always mean any admittance of wrongdoing by casino.

 

[shady]

I'm certainly trying.
Just wanted peoples opinions - on why would they make a "gesture" when the claim they have no liability.
Email has gone off to IBAS so hopefully it will be quicker than MrVegas

I hope you win ads, fight the power!

Seriously sincerely hope you get what's owed.

Hope you update the outcome.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Personally i would take the 380 as one thing is clear, there was a malfunction of some description and that all casinos and providers have the term void in the case of malfunction so I would expect any ADR to uphold the casinos decision on a malfunction case. All they would normally award in such a case is your stake back, but as no stake was actually taken your likely to get awarded 0.00

Im with @paul7388 in that the 380 is in no way an admission guilt/liability or that they expect it to go against them, and I think its a very genuine offer to just compensate you for the stress and time.

Only you can really decide whether its worth effectively gambling 380 for the chance of 3800 or nothing.

 

[bamberfishcake]

FINALLY!!!!!
I have their Final Decision to take to IBAS:

"Thanks for your reply, and apologizes for the delayed response.

Firstly, we would like to again express that your request for payment of £3,800 has been rejected. As outlined in a previous response to this matter, we do acknowledge that your current balance displayed within the game was incorrect due to for technical errors.
However, as was explained previously as well, your account did in reality not have the required funds to place the bet, and it was as such rejected by the game.
We do not see you have grounds for any potential winnings, or claimed potential winnings, from this bet, as firstly, there was no bet and no money was deducted, and secondly, said bet could never have happened due to the insufficient balance you actually had.

We will however offer you a goodwill payment of £380 (10% of claimed potential win) in this case, due to the understandable inconvenience the situation has caused, and the unfortunate long waiting times you've experienced.
Note that £3,800 is not a confirmed potential win, as the game requires a selecting on player's end, which cannot be confirmed, as there was no completed bet.

Please confirm for us if you wish to receive this credited to your Mr Vegas account balance.

Note that this is our final decision and the end of our internal complaint process. If you wish to pursue this matter further with an independent ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution), players residing in the UK should contact the Independent Betting Adjudication Service (IBAS)."

So whilst I'm pleased I've got final decision and now can go to IBAS, I'm now confused.

If they are 100% sure that I'm not owed a single penny then why offer 10% of the winnings?

"A game requires a selecting on the players end, which can not be confirmed" well the screen shots show that the full game round was played and I was able to select the Yellow flapper/wedge thingy.

Has anyone ever had anything like this before? A good will gesture that is 10% of in their view unentitled winnings?

I no expert in law, nor anything else really for that matter, but isn't the offer of a settlement figure all you need for an admission of guilt?

I would take it further.

@neilw I appreciate you think its a bit of a grey area, but surely the games are not set up to take a bet when there are no funds to place it? Thats coding basics isn't it?

I ask because I have zero knowledge about coding or how these games are made, but they are programs, and I know 1 + 1 doesn't make 3 on any computer.

 

[Reelsoffun]

I ask because I have zero knowledge about coding or how these games are made, but they are programs, and I know 1 + 1 doesn't make 3 on any computer.

Sorry couldn't resist, but technically 1 and 1 (11) is 3 in binary so can make 3 on any PC I will shut the door on my way out

 

[ads2003uk]

and now the further wait begins.. IBAS have emailed saying it's now been passed to a case manager and will take 8/10wks.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Sorry couldn't resist, but technically 1 and 1 (11) is 3 in binary so can make 3 on any PC I will shut the door on my way out

Told you I know nothing about coding

 

[goatwack]

But it was still the right course to pursue, so the wait will have been worth it

 

[Guntis]

I remember an ex-workmate telling me a story about nearly falling off the roof while scaffolding 120 feet above Leicester Square.

They were taking a scaffold down when he noticed a dangerous board, so he asked his supervisor whether he wants to change it, and he said no, it will be alright, just be careful... After a while, my friend was walking backwards and stepped on that board, causing one end to go up and himself to fall on the steep roof and slide down.

There was nothing ahead except the roof edge and a ladder beam which he managed to catch and get himself back.

Everything was reported in a near-miss accident book and he said that he is going to sue the company. They first accused him of being at fault but then offered him £1800 to calm him down. He did not accept the money and instead hired a no-win, no-fee lawyer.

The company knew that and offered him 5k then, later on, 10k, then in the end 20k to just fuck off. But he refused all the offers.

Three years later finally, through the court, the company was forced to pay £150k.

 

[justdoit]

and now the further wait begins.. IBAS have emailed saying it's now been passed to a case manager and will take 8/10wks.

good luck m8

 

[spurs1882]

The first screenshot says "Total Bet £248" and the second screenshot says "Bonus Bet £248". Shouldn't it say "Bonus Bet £38"? If so, that fits with the visual glitch theory.

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[ads2003uk]

The first screenshot says "Total Bet £248" and the second screenshot says "Bonus Bet £248". Shouldn't it say "Bonus Bet £38"? If so, that fits with the visual glitch theory.

No idea.
They stated that the Visual Glitch related to the Balance available, this was stated on more than one occasion.
However even by your example there is a bet of £38 applied to the bonus (as shown on the CrazyTime ticket) and not £248
If it was a Visual Glitch on the Bonus Bet then the bet on the ticket would show £248 and not £38.

 

[ads2003uk]

I went back to Mr Vegas with a question regarding the "goodwill" gesture to see if acceptance meant they would consider the matter closed and would mean I would not be able to continue with ADR.
This is their response:

"The good will payment of £380 is solely as compensation for the technical errors and long waiting time experienced, and does not restrict you from making contact with ADR.

We can however not confirm if this payment would change anything in relation to any decisions IBAS may take upon closing of your case with them."

I've sent it to IBAS to find out if it would impact anything they did and will go by IBAS decision.

However, originally MrVegas said the goodwill gesture was in relation to"the understandable inconvenience the situation has caused, and the unfortunate long waiting times you've experienced." But now they are saying due to technical issues.

They've just admitted their error haven't they?

 

[paul7388]

They've just admitted their error haven't they?

No they have not admitted anything they have not already said to you.

If you read the initial email offering goodwill gesture they clearly stated then technical errors. So they are saying the same as last time.

irstly, we would like to again express that your request for payment of £3,800 has been rejected. As outlined in a previous response to this matter, we do acknowledge that your current balance displayed within the game was incorrect due to for technical errors.

 

[ads2003uk]

Little update.
On Monday IBAS replied to my enquiry about the goodwill gesture and stated that it is purely that for the length of time taken, and that it has no impact or baring on my case?

So I replied back to the email MrVegas sent straight away (10am ish) no reply.. contacted online chat - they had no record of this offer on my account! So sent them the image of the email they sent. It was passed to a the department who deals with and gues what - someone will get intouch with me (why when I said I want it applied to my account as withdrawable funds as I may wish to play). Contacted today - I'm now in a Queue!!!
This take the piss.
The gesture was for the length of time taken, now in a queue so god knows how long that's going to be now.

Oh and IBAS said they requested information off MrVegas relating to my case two weeks ago but have still not received it.

 

[ads2003uk]

Really can't make this stuff up.
Funds allocated to my account for withdrawal.
I've withdrew at 11:00am - no sign of funds.

Reason - there seems to be a Glitch.
Payment team has been made aware. Can't provide any further timeframe as it's in a queue...
Sound familiar?

 

[perunamies]

What a shit show and absolute amateur hour all round. How is it that they mostly employ total amateurs at online casinos?

 

[ads2003uk]

Honestly I'm lost for words.
As soon as he said Glitch I wanted to rip his head off

 

[ads2003uk]

They've have assured me there was no glitch.
It was flagged for Manual review because guess what - the accounts team have looked into my account and can not see where this money has been deposited from((???)

Yep you guessed it SOW!

So this have now been raised with the complaints team who deposited the cash to be looked into - and yes unable to give a time frame.

It pisses me off as I already submitted a sow nearly 9mths ago when they wanted everything else and it was all accepted.

Oh and the funds are not locked to a withdrawal/pending status but are playable!

 

[toms596]

Get back on Crazy Time to complete the cycle ?

 

[ads2003uk]

That's probably what they want

 

[dec2008mcl]

Posts like this remind me why I quit online slots almost a year ago. Any one who thinks they haven’t changed to fleece the punter are casino shills.
To the OP keep fighting this, your evidence is compelling, I would start a case in the small claims court also as well as IBAS, claiming compensation on top of the money owed to you. These people are scum and try to bully people off their winnings.

 

[ads2003uk]

The £380 hit my bank today sometime around 3:30 as I was on way back from work.

Just the wait with IBAS now.
Will be 5wks on Monday since they've had my case.

 

[ads2003uk]

With Monday 29th being 8wks since IBAS accepted my complaint I thought it he best to get a status.
Back on the 4th August IBAS requested further info from Videoslots.
As of today IBAS has said the panel need further information from Videoslots and then
"Given the time of the year I’m sure that you can appreciate that it is holiday season resulting in staff leave both internal and external and things can become stagnant for a small period."

Thats pissed me off as wouldn't accept my claim without a deadlock which MrVegas was pissing about with for months.

What are people's dealings with IBAS been like? (Trustpilot is a bit of a scare story)

 

[dec2008mcl]

Told you before, open a claim in the small claims court, you have all the evidence you need. If they are saying technical fault that’s on them, the bet was accepted. What’s not to stop them claiming this on every good win

 

[ads2003uk]

Sadly that costs money.
Lose the claim I would owe further money.
Win then yes good - but small claims for a multi million pound company in Malta - if get torn apart be legal crap

 

[dec2008mcl]

Ur name has uk in it, you not from there?

 

[ads2003uk]

Ur name has uk in it, you not from there?

Yes I'm in the UK.
Small claims court - £250 upfront

Plus UK courts are powerless in enforcement of verdicts of overseas entities

 

[kennygamerboy]

With Monday 29th being 8wks since IBAS accepted my complaint I thought it he best to get a status.
Back on the 4th August IBAS requested further info from Videoslots.
As of today IBAS has said the panel need further information from Videoslots and then
"Given the time of the year I’m sure that you can appreciate that it is holiday season resulting in staff leave both internal and external and things can become stagnant for a small period."

Thats pissed me off as wouldn't accept my claim without a deadlock which MrVegas was pissing about with for months.

What are people's dealings with IBAS been like? (Trustpilot is a bit of a scare story)

if you do a small claims court there’s a high chance they’ll settle before with the letter before action. as most casinos don’t wanna get dragged through the small claims as you’ll find most of there terms and conditions aren’t worth the paper they are written on.

 

[kennygamerboy]

Yes I'm in the UK.
Small claims court - £250 upfront

Plus UK courts are powerless in enforcement of verdicts of overseas entities

you send your own letter before action for free

 

[ads2003uk]

Reading up on Justice for punters they state that it's advisable to try to resolve prior to court action and if ADR is unsuccessful I can still submit court claim

IF it went to a court claim,.would it be MrVegas at Malta address or Videoslots ?

 

[interlog]

Reading up on Justice for punters they state that it's advisable to try to resolve prior to court action and if ADR is unsuccessful I can still submit court claim

IF it went to a court claim,.would it be MrVegas at Malta address or Videoslots ?

As we're no longer in the EU, you are going to struggle big style:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[paul7388]

As we're no longer in the EU, you are going to struggle big style:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Thanks.

Now we will get a long post in here from Chopley telling us that's another reason why Brexit is a disaster.

 

[interlog]

Thanks.

Now we will get a long post in here from Chopley telling us that's another reason why Brexit is a disaster.

Well as those pesky long queues in Dover have long gone disappearing (maybe because it is towards the end of the holiday season), I am sure that he is scouring the internet for other reasons. I am sure that my post will assist him with this, backed up with some twatter posts by some person I have never heard of that is voicing their biased opinion.

 

[irish-ranger]

Thanks.

Now we will get a long post in here from Chopley telling us that's another reason why Brexit is a disaster.

Yes and 3 dice will also be slipped in..