Lock Casino - heads up

[maxd]

Max...I'm not sure if this is a naive question or not....

Check your PMs, sending one through in 2 mins.

 

[tklein]

I got paid TODAY !!

Hey, believe it or not.

Lock has paid me in full today. More than 1000$ via Moneybookers.

I think the guys from Lock really trying to get this handled.

It is just one day after I posted on CM.

Thomas

 

[locknload]

Lock Casino - Processor Delays

Hello Everyone,

Based on watching this thread as it progresses I wanted to jump in and give you all some clarity. Processor issues mean funds being seized. Bank accounts being closed and cash flow being impacted. We know as a player it is very hard to understand the inner workings of a casino, nor does it feel like it should be your problem. When the industry gets hit with these types of issues the Casino and the player are effected.

We are not singling anyone out but are paying players from the methods we have funds available as quickly as possible.

To be honest what is so frustrating for us as a casino and as people who have put our heart and soul into being a great casino on all levels, bonuses, support and product. The first 10 months of business we were generous, kind and loyal to all of you. We have encountered some challenges and in this we would hope you would all reflect and remember us for all of your good experiences with us and not just the mistakes.

Lock will prevail. We will fight to be the best even through our mistakes. I would hope that the players understand that even in unfortunate circumstances we have chosen to be honest, transparent and follow through with our obligations. It may not be within the time frame that you are accustomed to. We are doing our very best.

What we ask is your patience and understanding as we work through these issues and prove ourselves to be the great company that we are and have always been. If you have further questions or concerns please contact me directly at [email protected]

Best,

Elka - Lock Casino Team

 

[Rusty]

Hello Everyone,

Based on watching this thread as it progresses I wanted to jump in and give you all some clarity. Processor issues mean funds being seized. Bank accounts being closed and cash flow being impacted. We know as a player it is very hard to understand the inner workings of a casino, nor does it feel like it should be your problem. When the industry gets hit with these types of issues the Casino and the player are effected.

We are not singling anyone out but are paying players from the methods we have funds available as quickly as possible.

To be honest what is so frustrating for us as a casino and as people who have put our heart and soul into being a great casino on all levels, bonuses, support and product. The first 10 months of business we were generous, kind and loyal to all of you. We have encountered some challenges and in this we would hope you would all reflect and remember us for all of your good experiences with us and not just the mistakes.

Lock will prevail. We will fight to be the best even through our mistakes. I would hope that the players understand that even in unfortunate circumstances we have chosen to be honest, transparent and follow through with our obligations. It may not be within the time frame that you are accustomed to. We are doing our very best.

What we ask is your patience and understanding as we work through these issues and prove ourselves to be the great company that we are and have always been. If you have further questions or concerns please contact me directly at [email protected]

Best,

Elka - Lock Casino Team

I am wondering about the transparency because it seems to me that as soon as you were aware of the situation you could have notified players, put a warning on your site or at least given Casinomeister a heads up there was a problem as you are accredited here.

Of course you have reasons for not doing this but I would consider your actions thus far to be opaque rather than transparent.
Case in point - this is your first post in this thread and while welcome it is basically just a PR release with little to no information on how the problems were allowed to arise in the first instance - what you are doing to ensure it wont happen again and most importantly when certain players will get their cash in full.

I don't think you are rogue but I don't think you have been transparent as you suggest either so I am wondering if accredited casinos should have some obligation to casinomeister (Bryan or Max) to inform them of any payment issues they consider will not be resolved swiftly.
That would be my idea of transparent and such honesty would not only increase your standing and be beneficial to the players it would also give the accredited list here a boost. Pre-emptive measures could be taken by all parties.

I am aware of the previous argument between Max,Bryan and Rob and like most posters feel Robs comments were misconstrued and so to avoid the same fate I will state here and now that I believe in this site and what it attempts to do and this is in no way is an attack on the accredited list.
(I should not feel the need to write that)

Is it completely naive of me to hope for such transparency and is it even workable?

I hope all players who are owed are paid in full very soon and Lock can become the same Casino for players as it is in their own heads.

 

[hakapuku]

If Lock casino will be closed tomorrow noone of those who they owe money to will get a single dollar. We have seen this scenario many many many times before and that is the real problem here.
P.S. By the way , the "cash flow problem" can actually be something opposite to what is presented here- when the cash flow grows steadily month by month and then hits the certain target for the casino owners- they just stop paying out the money (or pay just to a few ones) ,accumulate the tons of cash and then...say goodbye to everyone and head to Bahamas.

 

[4 of a kind]

Just to let everyone know. I have been in touch with Emily at Lock payments and they have said they will wire me $3000 this week and $3000 at the end of next week. I have received a copy of the first wire sent today so everything looks good. I will let you guys know when it hits my account.

You have not posted since this post above keeping us abreast as promised. How are the payments working out? Have you received the two $3,000.00 dollars payments? If so, what plans are being made for the remaining balance of 14K?

Were you asked not to comment any further on this issue or risk future payments? (If you don't respond we'll understand)

Thanks....

 

[hitobito2005]

I'm waiting over a month as of today for a $2000 Neteller withdrawal.

 

[Lucky Loser]

I'm waiting over a month as of today for a $2000 Neteller withdrawal.

The Lock Rep seemed genuine but that is not a good sign at all.

 

[hitobito2005]

Yep I emailed him today, said they are still having payment processor issues.

I wonder if anyone has been paid in the last month.

 

[jelsmith]

Yep I emailed him today, said they are still having payment processor issues.

I wonder if anyone has been paid in the last month.

Yes some have...here and there without rhyme or reason who gets their $ and who doesnt.....GL I hope you get it...This processor issue is getting pretty ridiculous....If I were people who play there they wouldnt be getting a dime from me til they get back on their feet.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Like I said, I seriously doubt that. Appearances can be deceiving and there's nothing in their previous behaviour to indicate that this would be the case.

Two things should calm fears when it comes to Pulver's case:

1. at least one of the processors who skipped was holding a large chunk of Pulver's cash. So Lock has to find a new processor, or whatever, and double-dip in order to pay him out. This is going to slow things down a bit for him, and it has.
   
2. he has both Bryan and I dealing directly with Lock to see this done, not to mention Lock's future here on the site in the balance.

If I were placing bets I'd heavily favour the "Pulver gets paid" wager.

Like I said, appearances can be deceiving.



If you are worried, PAB it. Then we'll find out what's up.

NO, the processor skipped with the CASINO'S cash, NOT the cash of specific players. It is NOT "pulver's cash" until his account receives it.

Secondly, WHY ON EARTH was one of these "dodgy" processors dealing with "a large chunk" of cash destined for a NON US PLAYER IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Pulver is from NORWAY, so WHY has one of the US facing processors been selected to make the payment, rather than one of the "quality" ones. The risk is KNOWN, and given this, US facing processors should ONLY be dealing with payments that the quality processors decline to deal with. This may not reduce the risk, but it reduces the IMPACT.

US players KNOW they will experience such problems, but players outside the US should NOT be experiencing problems because of things that happen in the US facing side of the business.

The fact that Lock simply CANNOT just move money around and pay these players quickly means they just don't HAVE the money at the moment, the processors "burn" was very severe indeed. Unless they recover this money, they will either have to rely on future deposits to fund payments, or negotiate further funding from their backers. Both these options would create significant delays in payments, and if players were unusually lucky during this period, the situation would worsen.

Rather than pay SOME players quickly, and in full; why not pay ALL players at least something, and try to come to an installment arrangement for the rest that they are confident they can stick to. A known installment plan, that is adhered to, is much better than receiving nothing but broken promises for weeks on end.
The terms should be changed to reflect the situation, so that players do not even see anything "fishy" about being told they will receive $xxxx per week, instead of the whole lot in one go.

Internally, the US facing side should be ringfenced as much as possible from the NON-US side, so that future problems do not risk dragging down the entire operation.
If the US side were to fail completely, an installment plan could be agreed to honour outstanding player balances, which despite the failure, would offer considerable reassurances to players that their money would not just disappear. Payment in such a scenario would be made from the operating profit of the non-US facing side. The casino itself would remain solvent, and in a position to move back into the US if regulation rather than prohibition became the policy, and without the "baggage" of players who lost money to the ether when they pulled out.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hello Everyone,

Based on watching this thread as it progresses I wanted to jump in and give you all some clarity. Processor issues mean funds being seized. Bank accounts being closed and cash flow being impacted. We know as a player it is very hard to understand the inner workings of a casino, nor does it feel like it should be your problem. When the industry gets hit with these types of issues the Casino and the player are effected.

We are not singling anyone out but are paying players from the methods we have funds available as quickly as possible.

To be honest what is so frustrating for us as a casino and as people who have put our heart and soul into being a great casino on all levels, bonuses, support and product. The first 10 months of business we were generous, kind and loyal to all of you. We have encountered some challenges and in this we would hope you would all reflect and remember us for all of your good experiences with us and not just the mistakes.

Lock will prevail. We will fight to be the best even through our mistakes. I would hope that the players understand that even in unfortunate circumstances we have chosen to be honest, transparent and follow through with our obligations. It may not be within the time frame that you are accustomed to. We are doing our very best.

What we ask is your patience and understanding as we work through these issues and prove ourselves to be the great company that we are and have always been. If you have further questions or concerns please contact me directly at [email protected]

Best,

Elka - Lock Casino Team

As I said, a problem for all casinos that accept US players.

If Lock casino will be closed tomorrow noone of those who they owe money to will get a single dollar. We have seen this scenario many many many times before and that is the real problem here.
P.S. By the way , the "cash flow problem" can actually be something opposite to what is presented here- when the cash flow grows steadily month by month and then hits the certain target for the casino owners- they just stop paying out the money (or pay just to a few ones) ,accumulate the tons of cash and then...say goodbye to everyone and head to Bahamas.

THIS is why players are so damn IMPATIENT when there are delays. They want "out" because they think the $h1t is heading towards the fan, and if the aim is good, they wont see a dime of any outstanding payments.

I'm waiting over a month as of today for a $2000 Neteller withdrawal.

This is a player from the UK, MY country, and who is using Neteller to withdraw. How on earth does a US facing processor problem stop you making a $2000 Neteller payment. This processor would surely NOT have been dealing with payments to players in the UK, where you would have a problem finding a quality processor who would say "No". The UK is where online gambling is as legal as it gets, and there is the widest choice of options for both players and operators to move payments.

If the problems are this severe, then the concerns expressed by hakapuku CANNOT be dismissed as unlikely scenario.

One concern is whether you are RELYING on players depositing and losing in order to pay CURRENT withdrawals, let along any FUTURE ones.

Another is whether you are able to secure further (even if temporary) funding to enable a return to a healthy cashflow, and withdrawals paid as expected under whatever terms are now present.

You have to remember that players KNOW there is no "safety net" to protect their balances when casinos go bust, and recent events have CLEARLY demonstrated this. To a player, it hurts far MORE to lose a big payout to a casino going bust than the effect it has on the insolvent business as a whole, which can simply walk away from debt since it is not "personal", but "corporate". Admittedly, staff in the lower positions get hurt pretty badly too, but the management would have already "feathered their nests" through devices such as executive pension schemes, which do NOT normally get dragged down with a corporate failure.

Lock CANNOT take the risk of being reliant on future deposits to pay current due withdrawals, they MUST seek, and get, enough additional funding to restore confidence among players. Each new player that says they have waited x weeks for a payment that should have taken days leads to other players deciding to wait for things to return to normal, rather than risk the possibility that their deposits are being relied upon to meet CURRENT outstanding withdrawals.

Lock should not do anything that looks "desperate" when it comes to getting deposits. NO frantic phonecalls trying to get a deposit out of a past player, NO "too good to be true" offers to "selected players" (everyone). This will only make things WORSE, and could seriously backfire by enhancing the view that the casino is really struggling, which will result in FEWER, not more, deposits.

 

[takethemoney]

This whole situation creates a vicious cycle because now I'm sure there are many players who do not deposit out of fear of not being paid....myself included.

 

[Pulver]

Hello all,

I don't want to write anything that might hurt my case, so I have sent maxd an update on PM just now and I am sure he will post an update to you guys.

 

[winbig]

Can't_B_Stopped
This message has been deleted by maxd.

What's with all the deletions lately?

 

[tat00]

well i infact has been on a streak at lock casino im winning (about time) so i have cashed out ranging from 500-1200 . well today i hit max cash out 3k so i know have to wait 7 bussiness days _ I know that lock will payout as they have for the others. if i have to wait and knowing i will get paid im fine with it as long as they pay me accordingly to what they say - if it takes 14 dsays then im concerned. will keep u posted how it ends up. but the truth be told i been loving lock lately lots of bonuses and just in general being a good cutomer service too ( specially angelina )

 

[hitobito2005]

Tat00, considering it's taken me 32 days so far maybe you should prepare to be concerned! It's actually taken longer than this. My original payout request was on 1st June (39 days ago) but they reversed it back to my account for no reason - there was no bonus associated with my deposit and my account was already verified.

So 39 days and counting Lock

 

[tat00]

are u vip?

 

[The Dude]

What's with all the deletions lately?

That was a post from a member who has been banned numerous times. We let him slip in and post so we could collect his IP.

His posting was moot since he shouldn't be here anyway. BTW - there have not been many deletions at all. Spammers and extreme flamers get the axe.

Actually, the moderators and I have agreed to a policy on deleting posts that will be published this next week. [/] derail

 

[maxd]

That was a post from a member who has been banned numerous times. We let him slip in and post so we could collect his IP.

My bad insofar as I had forgotten we were gonna let him post to harvest the IP info. Other than that ... well he's a serial ass-clown (signed up and been banned several times) so -- as Bryan said -- he shouldn't've and wouldn't've been able to post in the first place, hence my deletion.

Stay tuned for the new "deletions" policy: I reckon it'll satisfy pretty much everyone.

 

[maxd]

I don't want to write anything that might hurt my case, so I have sent maxd an update on PM just now and I am sure he will post an update to you guys.

PM received, I'll get to it on Monday.

FYI, you are free to post on this issue as you see fit. As you should recall per my PM of 28th June 2010 your PAB was closed for your continued violations of the "don't post regarding an active PAB" rule.

 

[hakapuku]

well i infact has been on a streak at lock casino im winning (about time) so i have cashed out ranging from 500-1200 . well today i hit max cash out 3k so i know have to wait 7 bussiness days _ I know that lock will payout as they have for the others. if i have to wait and knowing i will get paid im fine with it as long as they pay me accordingly to what they say - if it takes 14 dsays then im concerned. will keep u posted how it ends up. but the truth be told i been loving lock lately lots of bonuses and just in general being a good cutomer service too ( specially angelina )

Lots of bonuses, you say? Typical behaviour of the casino in urgent need for cash.
Regarding your concern- let's just pray (we don't have other options anyway).

 

[5250phil]

im kind of glad i chose not to play at lock anymore albeit i never won any substantial amounts any ways

i would like to take the time though to say this

i had a rough patch of a big loosing streak and in fairness elka"casino manager" did her upmost to help me with bonuses and free chips and i do feel that she is a honest truthfull person and i believe her when she says people will get payed and lock will go back to how it was before the processor issues

just my 2 pennies worth

 

[4 of a kind]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulver
I don't want to write anything that might hurt my case, so I have sent maxd an update on PM just now and I am sure he will post an update to you guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxd

PM received, I'll get to it on Monday.

FYI, you are free to post on this issue as you see fit. As you should recall per my PM of 28th June 2010 your PAB was closed for your continued violations of the "don't post regarding an active PAB" rule.


Any current information available???

 

[maxd]

Any current information available???

AFAIC it's a work in progress. The OP will have to provide the details.

 

[poser]

Today Lock paid me a withdrawl of 500$.

Just to update you.

 

[takethemoney]

Today Lock paid me a withdrawl of 500$.

Just to update you.

Good to hear. I like their service but have been playing elsewhere because I've been leary of their situation and have not wanted any undue delays.

I'm waiting for a MB withdrawal of more than 2000$ for more than one week.

And I'm not from the US.

Why only $500? Are they seriously paying your $2000 in installments? What would be really bad is while they are doing this if the rest of the funds remained reversible! Tell me it ain't so and that you didn't spend the rest of it back!

 

[tat00]

i also got paid 1500 out of the 3k so half

 

[takethemoney]

i also got paid 1500 out of the 3k so half

I'm glad people are getting at least some of their money, but not happy about the installments on such small amounts. Thank you for the info and this tells me what I need to know about whether to deposit at this casino just yet.

 

[hitobito2005]

Thanks for the updates, not received any of my $2000 yet but still hopeful!

On the other hand they Elka has not replied to my emails for over a week now.

 

[Pulver]

Hello all,

On the 28th of June I got an email from Lock stating that they had wired me $3000 and then would wire me $3000 the following week aswell. I received a document showing the wire details, and to my eyes everything seemed OK. This wire have however still not arrived to my bankaccount. I have contacted Lock about this and asked if they could performe a trace of the wire. I have not received any information of the result of this trace.

The week after, they paid me $2000 by moneybookers. Not the promised $3000.... I have not received anything for last week.

I should have received $9000 after teir new promises, but I have only received $2000. I have heared nothing about the trace of the wire.

Total received = $3500 out of $19600.

 

[maphesto]

Now is the right time to really say that they are rogue and placed on the rogue list.

If they can't pay you even one of them promised 3000$ it's bad.

Of course there can be a lot of misunderstandings even at this point..they might have written wrong account nr. etc. but lets face it:

They should almost have visit you personally with flowers or chocolate together with your weekly 3000$.

They have lost it all now. IMO.

 

[maxd]

I received a document showing the wire details, and to my eyes everything seemed OK. This wire have however still not arrived to my bankaccount.

But apparently those details were not correct because, as I understand it, the wire transfer was stopped by your bank for incorrect details. So that transfer is DOA. Doubtless Lock will provide you with details when they get around to it.

 

[maphesto]

But apparently those details were not correct because, as I understand it, the wire transfer was stopped by your bank for incorrect details. So that transfer is DOA. Doubtless Lock will provide you with details when they get around to it.

This, of course, put it in another situation. Still, they could have paid him more by Moneybookers?

If they have money, I mean.
It's quite easy to fund and pay with moneybookers if you have the money.
I doubt they have.

And I also think that they have to answer Pulver on emails.

 

[Pulver]

Was it stopped? I have not received any information about this, even tho I asked for them to performe a wire over 1 week ago...

I am no expert on bank wires, but everything was correct, exept that they ended my first name with "ck" instead of "k". I don't know if banks stop incomming transfers just because one letter wrong. But if they did, why did Lock not fix it and wire it again, and inform me?

And why did they not pay me the full $3000 in "week 2" and why have they not paid me anything for "week 3"?

Edit: Btw. I contacted them regarding the small spelling mistake on my first name right away after receiving the document.

 

[maxd]

Was it stopped? I have not received any information about this ...

Ask nicely and I'm sure they'll give you the details in due course.

And yes, a misspelled name can most certainly stop something like this dead in its tracks. I've seen this several times over the years. Banks can be very, very anal about such things.

 

[Pulver]

All my emails with Lock have been polite..

But should I really have to ask for information like this, when I have been owed money for such a long time?

 

[slafs]

Maybe Lock believes that the PAB process is still continuing, and that's why they inform Max about the developement instead of Pulver? My guess is that they are still reading this thread but don't want to get involved.

I understand that there's probably a lot going on behind the scenes here that we don't know about, and that Max probably is the only one well informed by all parties. But still - why not just give Pulver a cc of the message telling Max that the wire transfer is DOA? Or even separately answering his polite request to where his overdue money is.

You can't blame him for getting frustrated! I'm actually impressed if he has managed to be polite for so long.

 

[hitobito2005]

Anyone remember HippoJo?

That RTG casino claimed processor problems for ages, and small payments came out in dribs and drabs for months. Then they dissappeared from the face of the Earth owing me £3000 and many others. This was back in 2006.

Unfortuntely the Lock Casino case reminds me way too much of this experience!

 

[hitobito2005]

Just realised my initial withdrawal was 26th May, which was declined twice, my current standing withdrawal was submitted 8th June. So this time next week it will have been a delay of two months for a UK player who'd only deposited with Neteller.

 

[slafs]

Anyone remember HippoJo?

Do I ever! The got me for around £3000 as well.

This one seems a bit different though. Maybe it's because I'm watching from the outside this time, but my impression is that they have hit a financial bump in the road, not just plain and simple ran out of money.

Only time will tell. "Hindsight is the only reliable science" as we say in Norway.

 

[The Dude]

Anyone remember HippoJo?

That RTG casino claimed processor problems for ages, and small payments came out in dribs and drabs for months. Then they dissappeared from the face of the Earth owing me £3000 and many others. This was back in 2006...

That was an entirely different situation. With Hippojo, (from what I gathered) the financial backers didn't understand the dynamics of online casinos, and when it went in the red during the first month or two, they panicked and pulled out leaving the operators high and dry. That sucked.

This situation sucks as well, but it's being addressed and dealt with. As far as I know, payments are being squared away.

 

[4 of a kind]

Ask nicely and I'm sure they'll give you the details in due course.

Can this forum vote to put Maxd in the rogue pit, at least before this whole online casino bullshit goes up in smoke...

 

[takethemoney]

Can this forum vote to put Max in the rogue pit, at least before this whole online casino bullshit goes up in smoke...

He loves you too.

 

[jelsmith]

Can this forum vote to put Max in the rogue pit, at least before this whole online casino bullshit goes up in smoke...

 

[jod5413]

Wow, that was a kick right in the ass, 4ofakind. Not called for.

I am not a friend of Max's or truly anyone else on here, with a few exceptions. I do know that the job Max tries to do is kind of a no win situation sometimes. He tries his best with PABs, even when the originator of the PM can't seem to shut up. He tries not get "snarky" when people here goad him.

On occasion, he does get snarky, and guess what? I do not blame him. It is a thankless job being in his shoes. I wouldn't take the job for any amount of money. I would become so jaded and end up the Snark Queen of the world!

You would all be scrubbing out latrines if it was up to me. Please, you guys need to not be so harsh and judgmental. I know, coming from me that might sound ludicrous, but I never lose my respect for those that try to make the system work better. Even the ones I might not like personally.

 

[maphesto]

Can this forum vote to put Max in the rogue pit, at least before this whole online casino bullshit goes up in smoke...

Laugh of the day/night. I had to read the sentence three times before I truly understood..

And I don't want to offend Max by this laugh(believe me Max). It was just so surprising. I wasn't prepared for that sentence when I had read the quote.

EDIT: You are of course right Jod5413! Not called for, even if I totally understand what 4oak meant.

 

[anniemac]

Jod, gotta agree with you on this one. Not sure why 40ak would post something like that. Maybe he was joking?

If not, not a cool thing to say. I wouldn't have Max's job for all the tea in China. Nice as I try to be, some folks would see the witchy side of me quick. I don't suffer fools and idiots well.

Besides, Maxd is the life line you might need someday. Why would you want to cut it into?

Not cool at all.

 

[chuchu59]

Can this forum vote to put Max in the rogue pit, at least before this whole online casino bullshit goes up in smoke...

I intended to do that many months ago when Max used some horrible avatars to scare my wits off. He has mellowed somehow recently with a change to the more acceptable versions.

 

[maphesto]

Not sure why 40ak would post something like that. Maybe he was joking?

It was of course not just a joke. part of it, maybe. Lock owes Pulver a lot of money since three months back and they didn't pay him enough this time either. But they haven't told Pulver why. They haven't even answered his emails.
Definately rogue behaviour.

But when you read Max comment about ask nicely you can easily get the imression that Max defends Lock.

That is probably why 4oak made his post.

And to be honest, it's probably not easy to be Max in this situation either. Lock were accredited here until a few weeks ago and now Max sits between Lock and Pulver with more information than Pulver.

And no, I don't want to vote for placing Max in the rogue pit.
I want Lock to be in the rogue pit.