Lock Casino - heads up

[rockycatt]

boy i hope that they can get creative and cut pulver a acceptable deal on payment and get back on track on the accredited list

 

[winbig]

boy i hope that they can get creative and cut pulver a acceptable deal on payment and get back on track on the accredited list

By deal, I sure hope you don't mean a % of his winnings.....

If they can't afford to pay players that win a "sizable" sum as per their T&C in place in regards to what they are to pay out every week, then they need to close up shop or risk financial ruin. ...and piss everyone off in the process.

 

[rockycatt]

By deal, I sure hope you don't mean a % of his winnings.....

If they can't afford to pay players that win a "sizable" sum as per their T&C in place in regards to what they are to pay out every week, then they need to close up shop or risk financial ruin. ...and piss everyone off in the process.

what i mean is sum [good]amount up front then weekly /monthly

if its a rough patch that lock hit and there other wise a honest casino then its to every on,s best interest that they stay afloat

however if its a case of just going bad then torpedo them

 

[vinylweatherman]

By deal, I sure hope you don't mean a % of his winnings.....

If they can't afford to pay players that win a "sizable" sum as per their T&C in place in regards to what they are to pay out every week, then they need to close up shop or risk financial ruin. ...and piss everyone off in the process.

What puts me off is that they were ONLY able to pay $1500 in 2 MONTHS! It doesn't matter how big the win was, it is the very small amounts they are able to pay out. I regularly make withdrawals of several thousand UK£, and do NOT consider $19600 as "exceptional".

It seems there IS a payment plan, $3000 per week, an update to the earlier promise of no limitations. They could not even keep to this, merely making a payment of one half the new weekly limit, and then nothing for the remaining 2 months.

From how the story has been covered here, I don't see much transparency, and cannot see how players OUTSIDE the USA can be getting tangled up in such severe "processor issues".

When I won that £52,000 at 32Red, the only "payment plan" on offer was £52,000 within the first 24 hours. It seems that many MGS casinos can offer this, so what is it about RTG casinos in particular that causes them to have such difficulties in paying wins greater than $2000 to $3000 without using some kind of payment plan.

 

[paul02085]

I think most RTG casinos dont have much money to begin with. They have a long history of letting anybody with a few bucks open one of their casinos. That is why they have such a sterling reputation.

 

[Casinomeister]

A few admin notes

A few admin notes - nothing to do with Lock Casino. But I think I need to put out a couple of fires here.

Payment Plan? What the heck is that about? Lock is listed as "None" under "Withdrawal Limitations" on the Accredited List here https://www.casinomeister.com/accredited-casinos/[/B]

Processor problems or not...why can't they just mail you a hard copy check to deposit at your bank for the entire amount?

I'm not liking the sound of this....
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____

Maybe it should have been stated "the plan for payment". Nevertheless, as a seasoned member of this forum - especially one who is a registered webmaster, you should be aware of how a post like this can be taken as a criticism of the Accredited Casino section - read: a direct criticism of my judgment. If you were merely a player - so be it, criticize to your heart's content. But as a webmaster, I'd expect that a bit more thought would be placed behind the comments. If I were a webmaster posting in your blog or forum, would you expect me to post with more tact or thoughtfulness than Joe the player? I would certainly hope so.

Max deals specifically with complaints - that's his job. He is also a moderator and cares about this site. So yeah, he will become defensive when it appears that members are trying to beat the site up. I'm going to have to agree with him on this one; you have been making a number of disparaging comments lately. And this is not cool.

...
Once Bryan has seen the details of what's happening, NOW, with this issue I'm sure he'll take the appropriate steps...

Like Max says, I'll take the appropriate steps when I take them. Isn't everyone watching the World Cup this weekend? Why the fuss?

What brought that derogatory comment on Max?

If you think that Max had overreacted, why not let the fire die and PM me? I really don't think he did honestly, and it wasn't that degrading in my opinion. But perhaps, I've been accustomed to your consistent questioning of some of the information that I've been posting lately. Seriously, there is a right way and a wrong way to participate as a webmaster in someone else's forum.

Max, are you stressed out somewhat here, I really do not understand your derogatory and character type assassination attempts toward me with your last several posts directed at me over the past couple of weeks?

Maybe he is getting stressed. I'd be stressed out too if I had people jumping down my throat or dissing me in public, or constantly questioning my judgment calls or integrity.

...I don't let my kids or family talk to me like that and I damn sure are not going to put up with this type of bullshit responses from you either!...

Chill on the testosterone-loaded comments please.

If you are single handily trying to take down Casinomeister's Site like you did over at Winneronline then I have to say that you are doing a good job of it so far here buddy!

Anyone don't believe that then simply go to Winneronline and look and read some of Maxie's comments and snipes there over the years at the posters and you too will see what a great stand up guy this dude really is...

That's a real low blow, and totally untrue. WOL fell to the wayside because the owners lost interest in a site that was 90% US player focused. It died - and when I heard Max was looking for work I hired him immediately. It was probably one of the best business decisions I ever made - and I have never regretted it. To imply that Max is "taking this site down" is a load of rubbish. He is a straight-forward no bullshit kind of guy, and those who have had the fortunate opportunity to meet him would know that he's friendly, well-read and articulate too. Your comments here are way out of line. You can diss me all you want - you don't disrespect the moderators.

...I also saw where you went back and deleted all of your bullshit and irrational comments there in your last post in the Casino La Vida thread too, glad now that I saved a copy of that. Your bizarre attitude and behavior as a Mod here lately is very disturbing buddy but I'm sure some of your brown-noser peeps will be along shortly to set my post here straight...

I guess I'm one of the brown-nosers

I have copies of all posts prior to any editing. (You should read some of my edits BTW ) What are you doing making screenshots of our posts? Are you building up a case on our "bad attitude" moderators? C'mon Rob, how much spare time do you have anyway?

..Good luck to Casinomeister's site here, Bryan is certainly going to need it as long as you continue to remain on board here!

Bryan, you can go ahead and delete or ban my membership here now.
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Why the martyrdom? Maybe a better solution would include trying to understand us a bit better - and try to work alongside us instead of questioning our every move. There are plenty of fellow webmasters who actively engage us, the players, and the i-Gaming reps without the sort of drama you seem to feel is necessary for being an active member.

I'm giving you a 60 day break to think about your comments concerning Max, and how you want to participate with this forum in the future. See you then.

 

[chuchu59]

A 60-day suspension seems a bit harsh especially when we have seen worse from some others in the past but hey it's your forum Bryan so the decision is yours.

I have no personal gripes with MaxD but I must say he seems a bit touchy at times. He is more knowledgeable than any of us here but I hope he either explains in greater length or responds less spontaneously. Sometimes his responses are a bit offensive although he definitely doesnt mean it. I understand he is under pressure to deliver and when he doesnt side with the player he gets burned at the stake.

The posts/threads in recent months do not make for pleasant reading. People get personal whenever someone disagrees with their views/comments and this is not good for the forum. Hopefully, we can all try to respect others views and not belittle others' opinions when we ourselves have little ammunition in the tank to support our own view.

 

[Pulver]

Just to let everyone know. I have been in touch with Emily at Lock payments and they have said they will wire me $3000 this week and $3000 at the end of next week. I have received a copy of the first wire sent today so everything looks good. I will let you guys know when it hits my account.

 

[jelsmith]

Just to let everyone know. I have been in touch with Emily at Lock payments and they have said they will wire me $3000 this week and $3000 at the end of next week. I have received a copy of the first wire sent today so everything looks good. I will let you guys know when it hits my account.

The heat is on....dunnana dunnanna...oh wowow tell me can you feel it!

GL Pulver i seriously hope you get your $ Seems bringing the fact they had not paid you out into the open sped things up a bit

 

[Casinomeister]

A 60-day suspension seems a bit harsh especially when we have seen worse from some others in the past but hey it's your forum Bryan so the decision is yours.

I have no personal gripes with MaxD but I must say he seems a bit touchy at times. He is more knowledgeable than any of us here but I hope he either explains in greater length or responds less spontaneously. Sometimes his responses are a bit offensive although he definitely doesnt mean it. I understand he is under pressure to deliver and when he doesnt side with the player he gets burned at the stake.

The posts/threads in recent months do not make for pleasant reading. People get personal whenever someone disagrees with their views/comments and this is not good for the forum. Hopefully, we can all try to respect others views and not belittle others' opinions when we ourselves have little ammunition in the tank to support our own view.

Robwin is a webmaster and webmasters are held at a higher level when it comes to tact, and forum conduct. That was a potentially damaging post - I or the moderators here have never posted damaging posts directed at Robwin's portals. Why should a webmaster be allowed to do this here?

Don't forget he quit the forum. I'm giving him a chance to come back after 60 days.

 

[maphesto]

@Casinomeister:

I have also seen the criticism about some things here the last months. I made a post about it here! It just happens to be RobWin and maxd in that conversation as well.
I just wanted you to know that before you read the rest here so you know that I am on nobodys side.

Maybe it should have been stated "the plan for payment". Nevertheless, as a seasoned member of this forum - especially one who is a registered webmaster, you should be aware of how a post like this can be taken as a criticism of the Accredited Casino section - read: a direct criticism of my judgment.

This particular post RobWin made about the payment plan can't be seen as a complaint on your accredited list if you don't want to see it that way. With all other questions lately about listing fees etc. etc. I think you as well as Max chose to see this particular post with other eyes than most other did.

How can you see this particular post as criticism of your judgement?
What I see is that Lock can't keep the promise about no payment limitations.

RobWin had to refer to the list of accredited casinos because a) you simply don't link to other affiliate websites b) they don't provide info like this on Lock's website.

Your accredited list is a unique one. Be proud of it! Unfortunately it seems like the word "accredited" together with some users (webmasters maybe ??) triggers some defence mechanism both with you and Max.

Yes, I understand it! But I don't think it's good for this place.

I have seen casino reps here turn some criticism to their advantage. In this case, you turned a valid point to something bad.

I can't see that post as potentially damaging. I have seen other posts from RobWin which are potentially damaging.

If we turn the coin around we can say that if we read about a casino on RobWin's portal and the casino goes broke we don't think RobWin acted with bad judgement, right?

If you were merely a player - so be it, criticize to your heart's content. But as a webmaster, I expect that a bit more thought is placed behind the comments.

Hupp!!
Me not understand..me only player..

 

[KasinoKing]

I agree with maphesto.
We all know Rob is very passionate about fairness, honesty & integrity in the online casino world, and his criticism was definitely aimed at the casino, not Casinomeister IMHO.

I read his post as "Hey Lock, you are a CM accredited casino - why the hell are you behaving like this?"
And NOT as "Hey Casinomeister, why are you listing a casino who can't keep to the requirements of your accreditation!"

What happened after that IS more serious. Again just IMO Max did over-react to Robs post, and in return Rob over-reacted back and we had some ugly posts there.
So I can't argue against the ban, though I think 2 months is a bit too severe.

Just my 2c.
KK

 

[winbig]

Just to let everyone know. I have been in touch with Emily at Lock payments and they have said they will wire me $3000 this week and $3000 at the end of next week. I have received a copy of the first wire sent today so everything looks good. I will let you guys know when it hits my account.

Glad you're getting paid (thus far...)

Devil's advocate again - would the casino have paid if the good folks here at CM hadn't stepped in and acted as a gobetween, and put pressure on Lock?

I, as many others, would love to hear the truth behind what led up to this clusterfck. The player in question is overseas, so they can't pull the "Processor/bank problems because of being located in the USA" card..

 

[4 of a kind]

Quote: Maphesto
As I see it, the rogue list is just too much before we know what they are offering Pulver. A warning is better. IMO.

Yes, you are absolutely correct here. As Bryan did already remove Lock from the accredited list, while waiting for the facts before re-rating Lock was the correct call for sure.

As a hard core online gambler I’m personally and emotionally involved. I’m so disgusted with what it has evolved into today (at least for me) I no longer play. With my spare time I pay attention to what’s going on and do and say what I think is wright with the hopes of helping wright the ship. Maybe for us U.S. players it’s waiting for it to be legalized and regulated, and unfortunately that may never happen. I miss very much playing online (not my wallet) and someday hope it will be fun again to get back in there.

So, has a hard core gambler maybe when I speak with emotions I could be to harsh as Maphesto pointed out based on my comment below emotionally screaming for Rogue. Yet the rest of that sentence pretty much sums up the fairness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 of a kind

Sorry, but my opinion remains the same, ROGUE rating immediately regardless of Pulvers outcome till confidence is restored enough to recommend players there again.


It’s experienced veterans like Bryan that show emotional restraint and usually make the correct moves. That’s why guys like him run places like this.


The bottom line remains that owning and running any online casino is no joke and requires a lot of backbone. ($) These are huge investments that will in most cases prove to be good investments if run correctly out of the gate. But if you get into this business being a lightweight with the intentions of building another Taj Mahal counting up front on loser’s money, then you must also be able to suffer the consequences if your unable to finance the long term. Just like a gambler does when hopes of winning are usually dismissed.

I feel financing is the issue here for Lock, and if their able to temporarily recover they will with all means possible deny there ever was a money problem. I hope it wasn’t just Pulvers 20k that did this to them.

I personally would never give this place a dime just based on what took place here. But that’s just me and my opinion. I can’t say I wish them good luck since I’m a gambler. And lets not forget that luck is not suppose to be the reason any online casino should succeed. This goes to show you that even when a casino decides to factor in luck this is how it could end up.

On a personal note concerning RobWin, that argument can be viewed more then one way. I think a 60 day suspension would pretty much just seal up this forum losing yet another great contributor.

 

[takethemoney]

One tell tale sign of Lock's condition will be when they start throwing ridiculously high bonuses out there with high playthroughs and low max cashouts. I hope I'm wrong about them. I had quit playing RTG casinos altogether, but recently deposited there and at BetPhoenix, who seemed to be decent. I guess I am done depositing with Lock.

 

[chayton]

I just skimmed this thread so I didn't catch it, is this a cash flow problem or a processor problem that Lock's experiencing?

 

[Casinomeister]

I just skimmed this thread so I didn't catch it, is this a cash flow problem or a processor problem that Lock's experiencing?

It's a processor problem.

 

[tat00]

just to get my 2 cents worth-

im having no issues withdrawing from lock infact i have had some really fast payouts lately - before i couldnt cashout bad luck i guess but now it seems im winning constantly there and paige and angelina are awsome over there. and to top it all of i noticed they have just launched lockpoker.com and i joined instantly . i feel bad for all these stories im hearing and i feel for ya but for me its the opposite . just my 2 cents worth thanks
tat00

 

[takethemoney]

It's a processor problem.

1. I'm not sure I understand how not being able to transfer funds via web wallets is a processor problem.....or did I misunderstand something and web wallet tranfers are working?

2. If they are not having cashflow problems why are they paying Pulver in installments?

These are legitimate questions I think we deserve answers to.

 

[winbig]

It's a processor problem.

im having no issues withdrawing from lock infact i have had some really fast payouts lately

Bryan - I'm not trying to second guess you or doubt you, but if other people are cashing out with ease (for lesser amounts, I'm sure,) then in my mind, it indicates a cashflow problem and not a processor issue. Especially seeing as how at least some of these players are in the USA.

If tat00 received payment via another ewallet, then it would seem as if it's the same old story we've seen time and time again with other casinos - where they won't have enough $ in one wallet, but yet have enough in another. This is why we'll see quick payments using one method, but slow payments using another.

This would also indicate a problem with the casino being underfunded.

And seeing as how tat00 has been here awhile and has 100 posts, I have no reason to doubt him. It's not like he's a 1 post wonder shilling for the casino.

....another 2c thrown out there

edit: If Lock keeps up with their promise of $3k a week, then it will seem as if they fixed the issue. We'll just have to wait and see. But for them to pay less than half of what's owed (the $3k/wk max) in one payment, then skip many others as they have....not cool.

 

[jetset]

What happened after that IS more serious. Again just IMO Max did over-react to Robs post, and in return Rob over-reacted back and we had some ugly posts there.
So I can't argue against the ban, though I think 2 months is a bit too severe.

Just my 2c.
KK

I've been trying to avoid posting in this thread (lest I be accused of 'brown-nosing') but the attack on Max was vicious, false and unjustified - and there was a clear intention to injure and damage the reputation of a genuinely committed mediator here as far as I am concerned.

We all need to pause and think before launching that sort of deeply personal assault, or indeed cast repeated aspersions on the judgement of those running this site, where we are all voluntary guests.

That applies particularly to someone who busts his ass for the players like Max does and is a moderator on a board where RobWin is such a guest.

I also believe that CM is right to hold webmasters to a higher standard as people who are in the business and should be only too well aware of the damage that can be caused and the ethics of attacking another site whilst enjoying its influence and hospitality.

As such, and read in conjunction with posts 56 and 60 which I recommend members re-read in this thread, it is my view that a 60 day cooler is not unreasonable.

The ultimate choice rests with RobWin - if he does not approve of the way things are done here, or the Accredited List, or our host's judgement calls, then there are other fora that he may find less objectionable and more to his taste.

Noone is indispensible here imo.

 

[tat00]

to the guy who used my quote -
i cashed out 1500 actually it took 4 days then i contacted chat wondering whats up and it was fixxed instantly . but other times its usually fast

 

[winbig]

to the guy who used my quote -
i cashed out 1500 actually it took 4 days then i contacted chat wondering whats up and it was fixxed instantly . but other times its usually fast

4 days to get paid for a USA resident isn't long at all. Sure beats most Rival's.

 

[Casinomeister]

Bryan - I'm not trying to second guess you or doubt you, but if other people are cashing out with ease (for lesser amounts, I'm sure,) then in my mind, it indicates a cashflow problem and not a processor issue. Especially seeing as how at least some of these players are in the USA.

If tat00 received payment via another ewallet, then it would seem as if it's the same old story we've seen time and time again with other casinos - where they won't have enough $ in one wallet, but yet have enough in another. This is why we'll see quick payments using one method, but slow payments using another.

This would also indicate a problem with the casino being underfunded.

And seeing as how tat00 has been here awhile and has 100 posts, I have no reason to doubt him. It's not like he's a 1 post wonder shilling for the casino.

....another 2c thrown out there

edit: If Lock keeps up with their promise of $3k a week, then it will seem as if they fixed the issue. We'll just have to wait and see. But for them to pay less than half of what's owed (the $3k/wk max) in one payment, then skip many others as they have....not cool.

Actually, it could be a combination of both. Let's say you have $x amount being held in a payment processor that was being used to pay out players. If that processor disappears - you're going to have some funding issues. That's a given. When I replied to Chayton's question, I was referring to the casino's statement here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/lock-casino-heads-up.38598/

When a casino has a cash flow problem due to being underfunded, this is normally due to piss poor planing - mismanagement of funds, etc. What happened here was that their processor vanished with their funds. So it's a matter of them getting reliable processors in place and get the ball rolling again. Again, I am only going by the casino's statements - I don't work there nor am I privy to their books

 

[vinylweatherman]

Actually, it could be a combination of both. Let's say you have $x amount being held in a payment processor that was being used to pay out players. If that processor disappears - you're going to have some funding issues. That's a given. When I replied to Chayton's question, I was referring to the casino's statement here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/lock-casino-heads-up.38598/

When a casino has a cash flow problem due to being underfunded, this is normally due to piss poor planing - mismanagement of funds, etc. What happened here was that their processor vanished with their funds. So it's a matter of them getting reliable processors in place and get the ball rolling again. Again, I am only going by the casino's statements - I don't work there nor am I privy to their books

Then why didn't Lock say so in the first place, instead of this vague "processor problems" reasoning. "processor problems" make one think of ineptness on the part of the processor, or the connection between casino finance department & processor (such as failure to forward money to the processor along with the payment instructions). What happened here is NOT "processor problems", Lock was SCAMMED by this processor.

Despite this, vanishing processors is something this industry has come to expect, and this SHOULD have been factored in, and emergency measures put in place to ensure that PLAYERS never experience an "out of control" payment issue, such as happened in this case.
Where casinos have been "wrong footed" like this, recovery should not take more than a week, moving funds around internally to cover the shortfall.

This case also seems to demonstrate that other players jumped the queue, being paid on withdrawals made later than that of Pulver, whilst Pulver was left waiting because "his money" was deemed to be "stolen" by the processor.

This is plain WRONG, money that disappears with a rogue processor should NOT be associated with particular players, since it is the CASINO'S money that was stolen, NOT the player's.

The delays and pain following this should have been shared among ALL players, and Pulver should have been paid under the new regime of limiting cashouts to $3000 per week, BUT this should have started right away, and NOT after a couple of months of heavy pressure.

Had Pulver been told the TRUTH, he might have been more understanding, and accepted a new payment schedule, such as $xxxx per week, even though the terms that applied at the time was unlimited amounts per week. If anything needed to be discussed further, the casino should have kept a line of communication open with Pulver.
Communication was another problem. It seems Pulver had trouble getting hold of the right people, and the "wrong people" were giving answers that proved innaccurate.

The fact that this processor vanishing had such a severe effect will still make some players worry about the overall tightness of funding. What if another processor did the same thing next month, not something to ignore when using the rather questionable US facing processors.

Lastly, players might wonder why a NON-US player was affected by an issue with a dodgy processor. Surely there is no need to use such processors to pay non-US players when the quality processors are willing & able to operate the service.

For eWallets, do casinos even NEED an external processor. Surely someone could be employed "in house" to run processing for each eWallet. They would need to collate that day's payments, and then run them through the merchant account, after checking that the merchant account had enough funds in place.