Lock Casino - heads up

[butterflyboogie]

Ask Nicely?

Ask nicely and I'm sure they'll give you the details in due course.

And yes, a misspelled name can most certainly stop something like this dead in its tracks. I've seen this several times over the years. Banks can be very, very anal about such things.

Max,

Most of the time I never say anything too much when you comment on things, because I know you are doing the best that you can. However, this has nothing to do with "asking nicely". This is Lock's responsibility to stay in touch with the player. If there is a problem, then they should be the ones to contact him. After all, he is the one that money is owed to.
I have played (at the beginning) with Lock many, many times. I always liked them, the perople were nice, payoffs were great; however since this all started I have not played there because if they are having problems then why add to the upset if I were to win and they couldn't pay me. Once they get back on track I will be glad to play with them again.
That being said, Lock needs to do as they say they will do. If they promised him $3k a week, then $3k should be what they should do. How can they expect him to be happy if they are not keeping their word? I understand you said that this was due to the bank not letting it come in (or something to that effect) however the next week instead of $3k, he gets
$2k? Lock (in my opinion) needs to make a plan, keep it, stay in touch with the player until all monies are received. It is the only right thing to do. As I said, I am not degrading what you do, but Lock is the one in the wrong here and it is time for them to do what is right.

 

[4 of a kind]

This particular battle [part of a much larger War] has been ongoing since February. If you are willing to let stuff like this slide without drawing a line in the sand....you are complicit.

You have to draw that line in the Sand and say "Enough is enough."

Lock intentionally misspelled Pulver's name so that the Wire Txf would bounce. They've lied to him 100 times or more in the last 3-4 months. They couldn't make up for the injuries inflicted were they to pay him ALL his own money, plus a huge amount for the risk that they never would pay, plus a huge amount as damages for the stress and the lies and the filthy filthy rogue.

And this is how Max responds?

Tells him to be POLITE?

And patient?

And then - and only then - "in due course" they'll update him?

I'm guessing not on their intentional misspelling to ensure a bounced Wire?

Only if he's polite and patient mind you!

And stops talking about it in public! Because that's why his PAB ended, Max clearly pointed out.

After Lock lies and steals and insults him over and over, Pulver has to stay silent, stay polite, not inform anyone of the thefts, keep it all nice and quiet until he either gets his OWN money back....or until Lock goes bankrupt. At which stage, I'm sure Max will explain how unfortunate Pulver was due to some ridiculous idiotic miscommunication which made Lock innocent but which - unfortunately - still puts them in the Rogue pit with all the other non-existent casinos which have more or less simply re-branded and scattered throughout the Accredited List?

Put Max in the Rogue pit.

 

[takethemoney]

Max might be personally involved with Lock from a friendship standpoint, making it difficult to do his job. Pulver should not have to kiss the casino's ass to get paid and the casino should not get to do things in their own leisure time. That's horse shit. Pay the man! If this were any other casino Max would be right up their nose, so why not with Lock?

 

[4 of a kind]

Max might be personally involved with Lock from a friendship standpoint, making it difficult to do his job.

I would have to say this comment would hold true for every accredited casino listed here.

Wake up and smell the coffee..... The best is yet to come....

Take care now everyone....

 

[takethemoney]

I would have to say this comment would hold true for every accredited casino listed here.

Wake up and smell the coffee..... The best is yet to come....

That accredited list needs be reviewed as to what they are doing lately, then shrink.

I vote the following off the island:

Grande Vegas - Piss poor attitude and customer service
Casino Titan - poor customer service, lack of response to emails, roguish terms and actions.
CWC - Many, many complaints, poor customer service. Delays on processing docs.

Rushmore group is no longer accredited and the three above are at least as bad.

 

[maxd]

... Lock is the one in the wrong here and it is time for them to do what is right.

Show me where I have said otherwise! People seem to be under the misunderstanding that I am somehow condoning Lock's slow-pay in the Pulver case. Go back and read my posts, it just ain't so. Like everyone else here I look forward to seeing Pulver paid and the issue put to bed.

Does that mean I like it when I see the facts of this case distorted to suit a particular agenda? No, I don't. Claims that Lock intentionally snarfed up the transfer and so forth are based on nothing but wild speculation and a desire to make the situation far worse than it is. While I don't condone Lock's slow-pay here I certainly don't condone these attempts to throw gasoline on the problem either.

 

[chuchu59]

IMO Max had to deal with a delicate situation and while he had to pull out all the stops to ensure that Pulver and other players will get paid, he understood the casino's plight and hoped that with patient handling the casino will slowly pay players their dues.

Now the situation has been badly handled by Lock from the start no doubt about it with their lies and half-truths. If they had been honest from the beginning players might have been more sympathetic but equally possible is the fact that there could be negative publicity going around that they are facing huge financial problems and that could spell disaster for them.

Now the question is do we use 'strong arm' tactics to coerce Lock into paying Pulver or should we be a bit more patient especially when we see players gradually being paid albeit a bit slowly and only a fraction of what they are owed. I vouch for the latter although many will not be impressed by the use of the words Max used ie 'ask them nicely' which smacks a bit of 'coddling dictactors' a widely-used term by western countries in the 80's agains China. Sorry for the politics, just coudnt resist.

Our ultimate goal should be to ensure that Pulver and others get paid. Right now, Lock only seems to be able to do that much and I do trust Max's judgment on that. I am sure he will continue to monitor the situation and if things turn sour he might employ different tactics.

Just my 2c.

 

[maxd]

(not speaking to Chu here, just in general)

I realize I'm stating the obvious but my "Ask nicely" post was specifically and only in reference to Pulver's statement that he wanted details on the botched transfer. That's why I quoted his statement first, to make that clear.

I didn't say "Ask nicely" in reference to him wanting his money or the late payments or Lock needing meet their commitments or anything else.

Quote the text, response, response is understood to be in reference to the quoted text. That's how this works. To interpret what I said otherwise is an error, possibly deliberate.

 

[jetset]

I would have to say this comment would hold true for every accredited casino listed here.

Wake up and smell the coffee..... The best is yet to come....

Take care now everyone....

The not very subtle innuendo here from both 4 of a kind and takethemoney - that Max and maybe CM generally is complicit in Lock's very questionable behaviour and possibly parlous financial state is imo quite unwarranted...and certainly unsubstantiated.

I really dislike seeing accusations like this tossed around indiscriminately and based purely on supposition, and in my view an apology is in order here to Max, who appears to have been doing the best he can to get the player paid.

All of that said, it is worrying that Lock is going to the lengths that it is to slow-pay its obligations. That always worries the hell out of me, because it is almost invariably an indication of cash-flow difficulties, a situation that is increasingly being conveniently attributed to processor problems by operators in trouble.

If Lock feels it can continue indefinitely with prevarication and slow-pay tactics, there is little incentive for it to up its game, as much as I can see Chu's point above.

Perhaps CM is reaching a stage where it needs to consider stronger language?

@Max - don't let the harsh and ill-conceived judgements on your integrity posted by 4 of a kind and takethemoney discourage you - rather refer to the many PABs that you have successfully pulled off in assisting players.

 

[Casinomeister]

Am I supposed to throw Max into the rogue pit because he tells Pulver to "ask nicely" (which I read strictly tongue-in-cheek) when it came to his payments?

Then what am I supposed to do with members who make unfounded speculations and accusations? Throw them in there too? C'mon, let's have a reality check.

We have not been defending this casino, we have been providing explanations on why things went pear-shaped. If you don't want to accept or believe it, that's your thing. But please don't confuse us explaining things with condoning things.

They were taken off the "Accredited" list, and I'm monitoring the situation. Lock reps are here daily and are only a PM away. The players (as far as I know) are being paid. I'm looking forward for everyone being paid, especially Pulver.It's not like I've forgotten about this thread or am thinking less of it.

4ofakind, I'd appreciate it if you don't make personal shots at the mods - especially one that has been working hard to assist aggrieved players. That's uncool.

 

[Pulver]

Received another $1000 to my Moneybookers account last night. So it is good to se that, albeit small, some progress is still being made.

($4500 out of $19600 paid)

 

[jelsmith]

Received another $1000 to my Moneybookers account last night. So it is good to se that, albeit small, some progress is still being made.

($4500 out of $19600 paid)

Glad you got a lil something...They still are not keeping their promise of 3k per week though.....So sorry Pulver...it sucks to get hosed by a casino. All I see them as at this point are lying thieives and need to be ROGUED months have gone by and they have only paid you a fraction....nowhere close to the 3k per week....and i thought those arrangements were due to the "theft"....otherwise you should have been lump sum paid correct? I still dont know why they are not rogued here....its been weeks since they told Max they would get you squared away.

 

[Rusty]

Received another $1000 to my Moneybookers account last night. So it is good to se that, albeit small, some progress is still being made.

($4500 out of $19600 paid)

I real feel for you - winning a decent sum and not getting paid is a gamblers worse nightmare, losses we expect but unpaid winnings and all the stress that goes with it is the pits - hang in there.

 

[slotjunkie]

Am I supposed to throw Max into the rogue pit because he tells Pulver to "ask nicely" (which I read strictly tongue-in-cheek) when it came to his payments?

Then what am I supposed to do with members who make unfounded speculations and accusations? Throw them in there too? C'mon, let's have a reality check.

We have not been defending this casino, we have been providing explanations on why things went pear-shaped. If you don't want to accept or believe it, that's your thing. But please don't confuse us explaining things with condoning things.

They were taken off the "Accredited" list, and I'm monitoring the situation. Lock reps are here daily and are only a PM away. The players (as far as I know) are being paid. I'm looking forward for everyone being paid, especially Pulver.It's not like I've forgotten about this thread or am thinking less of it.

4ofakind, I'd appreciate it if you don't make personal shots at the mods - especially one that has been working hard to assist aggrieved players. That's uncool.

Doesn't matter how close they are if they are NON responsive to his(and others) numerous emails

And at this point asking nicely I am sure takes a whole lot of wooo-saw'n!(Im pretty sure this is mis-spelled, but...) For those who don't know what that means: a lot of inhaling/exhaling and mental preparing!!!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Received another $1000 to my Moneybookers account last night. So it is good to se that, albeit small, some progress is still being made.

($4500 out of $19600 paid)

We are at last getting somewhere, maybe you will have it all by Christmas

The initial promise was after an exceptional delay, but even this has not been kept, otherwise you would be looking at $6000 now, rather than $4500, and maybe even $9000, which you SHOULD have by the end of THIS week.

Their initial response to Max on a timescale was "3-6 weeks". Clearly it is NOT going to be 3, and even at this rate, 6 looks unlikely unless they speed up a little.

Take Liquuid_fusion, a UK player, using Neteller, but so far has waited TWO MONTHS after initially having his withdrawal messed around by being "declined". The rules state $3000 per week, and Liquuid_Fusion awaits $2000. This should have been simple, $2000 back to Neteller in one instalment, and one month ago. Now that things are supposedly back to normal, where is this $2000? Worse, all of Liquuid_Fusion's emails are being ignored by Lock casino, yet he is NOT a "nuisance", he wants HIS $2000, or at least an explanation of WHY he hasn't got it, and WHEN he will get it.

The longer these payments are dragged out, the longer this issue remains active on various forums over the internet. The longer this goes on, the more players they lose, and even players thinking of starting with Lock will go elsewhere because it looks like there are constant problems when it comes to getting paid.

I still don't understand why so much NON-US players' money "disappeared" as a result of the problems in finding a reliable processor prepared to operate into the USA. The casino have admitted that the payment intended for Pulver vanished along with the dodgy processor, yet this money simply had no need to pass through the USA, so should NEVER have ended up in the hands of one of these "grey" processors.

US players are often told they face these risks if they continue to play in the current environment, but this case has shown that even NON-US players face the exact same risks when playing at any casino that also takes US players. Non-US players therefore also have an enhanced risk of having "their" money disappear due to UIGEA problems, so surely even NON-US players should follow the advice given to US players about waiting out this UIGEA "storm", rather than continuing to deposit.

Casinos really should 100% ringfence their US facing operations from their non-US facing ones, so that if UIGEA brings down a US facing processor, or one just vanishes, only the US players have to have their payouts rescheduled, with non-US players remaining unaffected. US players at least understand the risks of playing during UIGEA enforcement, and will (mostly) be more understanding when unexpected problems with their payments are encountered.

Players from the UK cannot understand how on earth Neteller payments can be stalled for 2 months because a US facing processor has vanished. Neteller don't even operate in the US, so there is no way Neteller payments should have been brought to a standstill. A Norwegian player similarly should not have had a problem getting the $3000 installments on time every week, and should not initially have suffered at all because of a US facing problem, and then should only have suffered from the change to a $3000 per week withdrawal limit, which should have begun in the normal timeframe.


What are we NOT being told?

 

[hitobito2005]

Lock reps are here daily and are only a PM away. The players (as far as I know) are being paid.

I have PM'd locknload and emailed the casino several times, they're not getting back to me (other than a reply from locknload a week ago saying he would ask payments that day).

I'm not being paid either.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have PM'd locknload and emailed the casino several times, they're not getting back to me (other than a reply from locknload a week ago saying he would ask payments that day).

I'm not being paid either.

So, the reps are here daily, and are "only a PM away".

WHY then, has a PM from Liquuid_Fusion gone unanswered?

Is this a DELIBERATE policy on their part to ignore the communications from Liquuid_Fusion. He was TOLD that payments were going to be asked what was going on, but clearly this didn't bear fruit, and all further communications are being ignored.

This case seems as simple as it gets, $2000 from Merchant Neteller to player Neteller for a UK based player. (Neteller itself is considered a "UK operation", regulated by the UKs FSA, although based in the Isle of Man).


Again, what are we NOT being told?

 

[Pulver]

I am not beeing communicated with either.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I am not beeing communicated with either.

Maybe they are only prepared to communicate with you by Moneybookers

Check your account regularly, and see if further payments are being dribbled in. By the end of next week, you should have received $9000, even if in random installments. Liquuid_Fusion should have ALL of his by the same time.

If the rep really IS here "every day", they will see that these payments are under the microscope, progress is being monitored in detail, then being compared with the promises made and the current terms quoting that payments will be paid at a rate of $3000 per week.

 

[Pulver]

locknload last visited this forum on the 20th of July. My last 3 emails to Lock Payments have gone unanswered.

Since they "screwed up" with the wire, why do they not send me another one with the correct name? It is tempting to contact my bank and see if the wire really was sent and rejected..

I am not giving up though.

 

[Casinomeister]

In the pit:
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

 

[Pulver]

Just hope they don't stay there for too long by starting to pay the players owed.

Elka just told me payments had told her I would receive the next payment by the end of this week. Nothing about the amount though. Just have to wait and see I guess.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just hope they don't stay there for too long by starting to pay the players owed.

Elka just told me payments had told her I would receive the next payment by the end of this week. Nothing about the amount though. Just have to wait and see I guess.

Funny that, in the pit, and suddenly they start talking to you again an hour later. Could be coincidence though, this being Monday - first working day of the week.

They could have avoided going in the pit by communicating more openly with the players affected. It seems they took the approach of "clam up" and hope they can trickle the payments out in their own good time, rather than to schedules they had initially promised.

Now, they have to climb TWO ladders instead of one, to get back their accredited status. Now THEY can suffer a delay in their path to redemption, just as players have suffered delays in payment.

Short term, they can start telling the TRUTH, however unpalatable that might be. Not necessarily in the public forum, but to Bryan and Max regarding just WHY one promise after another was broken, despite them claiming to be able to trade through this problem, and that players should NOT have to worry about not getting paid at all.

The only thing I can think of is that they THOUGHT they could raise short term finance, and made promises based on this, but found that NO-ONE was prepared to extend this extra finance to them (or enough), hence they were forced to try to trade their way out of the situation, paying players from more recent deposits received, and relying on these players NOT having a collective "lucky streak" that could finish them off altogether.

They tried to share out what little they had, rather than leave loads of players with nothing. Unfortunately, a few DID get nothing at all, and made a big fuss, and their cases contradicted all the assurances the operator had given that things would work out in the end.

Hopefully, most will get paid bit by bit, but this could take a while, and it could be Christmas before all payments are made, and this is NOT considering the worst case scenario - where they NEVER manage to make enough to recover from this, and decide to "throw in the towel".

We have leaned that ALL players of US friendly operations are at risk from fund seizures and processor "thefts", NOT just the US ones. Non-US players should now take this into account when looking at casinos to play at. Casinos not accepting US players should NOT fall foul of these rogue processors, nor face having funds seized from US bank accounts by the DoJ.

We STILL don't know whether the Lock case was down to a DoJ seizure, or a processor genuinely running off with their money.


Far from kid gloves, Bryan acted pretty harshly, throwing Lock into the pit half way through the maximum 6 week duration of the main promise under scrutiny, that to pay Pulver in full in "3 to 6 weeks". Maybe they were closer to pit admittance than most of us thought.

EDIT.

I have just read the pit entry, and it does seem that the story was of a DoJ seizure of funds in the US, and bank accounts closed.

This, of course, brings me to my earlier point. What the HELL was Pulver's money even DOING in a very risky US bank account in order for the DoJ to trace & seize. There was simply no need to place any more than was STRICTLY NECESSARY under the noses of the DoJ, yet it seems Lock were hit so badly because they were holding payments NOT ultimately destined for US players in these US bank accounts. Given the current situation, this was breathtakingly naive of them, and they lost far more than they needed to. They were NOT managing the risks appropriately, and must be REALLY struggling to pay the NON-US players who never expected to be tangled up in the UIGEA, and have THEIR payouts confiscated by the DoJ.

On the other hand, they could have been LYING when they gave Pulver the excuse that the delay was caused because HIS money had been in the account that the DoJ seized & closed down, and that there was a different issue, perhaps a pre-existing, but very manageable cashflow problem made much worse when these funds were seized.

Operators should take note, unless funds NEED to be in a US account (to pay US players & affiliates for example), DON'T PUT THEM THERE, find somewhere else outside the USA's jurisdiction, even if it costs more.

 

[anniemac]

OK, so now I am really confused.

First, the story was the processor ran off with the funds. Not a good thing, and possible I suppose. Although I would think that any casino would do due diligence before trusting a processor with their money.

Now Bryan posts that their funds had been seized by DOJ as well as bank accounts.

So which one is it?

 

[hitobito2005]

I sent another PM today after seeing pulver had a reply and have received a reply myself:

Hi Gavin,

Your withdrawal is in the queue. We just have some delays in our payouts. You should expect your withdrawal to be completed within the next 7-10 business days.

Thanks for your patience.

Elka

So I presume that nobody who sumbitted a withdrawal after 8th June has been paid yet (unless they have been queue jumping!).

My new deadline is 9th August.