L&L closing accounts and requesting Source of Wealth

[goatwack]

"Come Join The Fun!"

 

[lockinlove]

There is no way I'd fill that out, the part that says "do not alter or cover any parts of the document". To me that means a bank statement without blocking part of the account #?

To be fair to them they did send me additional info after... saying I did not need to send in any document and to just fill it out that I work and sign it. But I think if I continued to use prepaids they would request a document.

I dunno but good way to deter players either way. So they just need to chill out a bit. We play here for entertainment and fun. When you get so serious and over the top is when people say well im not playing here because I dont want to deal with it.

The standard ID, utility bill and proof of deposit should be enough.

 

[slotplayer]

To be fair to them they did send me additional info after... saying I did not need to send in any document and to just fill it out that I work and sign it. But I think if I continued to use prepaids they would request a document.

I dunno but good way to deter players either way. So they just need to chill out a bit. We play here for entertainment and fun. When you get so serious and over the top is when people say well im not playing here because I dont want to deal with it.

The standard ID, utility bill and proof of deposit should be enough.

I like the way the btc exchange does it, hold up your id and take a selfie then upload it.

 

[lockinlove]

I like the way the btc exchange does it, hold up your id and take a selfie then upload it.

casinos even asking for a utility bill is too much if we want to get into it. A piece of id has your address picture and expiry date. Everything a casino needs. But the utility bill is standard for all casinos so this isnt out of the normal at all. Jus sayin'

When I walk into the landbased I get Id'd sometimes but that is because I am young and beautiful

But they dont ask me for utility and fingerprint and take strand of my hair...like these casinos are starting to do lol

 

[goatwack]

Bank statements should be the end of the matter in regards to source of wealth or affordabilty. Everything else is superfluous.

 

[colinsunderland]

These guys are going way over the top here and need to settle down LOL.

Here is the form they want me to fill out. And what has flagged them is the use of prepaid cards. I highly suggest if you play here you use an ewallet with this group. They think the use of prepaid is a high risk to money laundering lol

To be fair, prepaid cards are a high risk to ML, pay for them by cash, deposit, withdraw to bank, clean money.

The SoW form is a bit weird though, so you can only use inheritance money if someone died less than 3 months ago, as any documents have to be less than 3 months old. Plus, theres not really much you can use to prove where that type of money came from.

 

[lockinlove]

To be fair, prepaid cards are a high risk to ML, pay for them by cash, deposit, withdraw to bank, clean money.

The SoW form is a bit weird though, so you can only use inheritance money if someone died less than 3 months ago, as any documents have to be less than 3 months old. Plus, theres not really much you can use to prove where that type of money came from.

It depends on the players history. If someone is buying a prepaid card, depositing it and wagering it the 1x and cashing it out. Yes suspicious.

If the player is depositing and playing slots for hours or days winning losing, lose. Redeposit few days later. Play.. win.. cashout. Then its quite simple to see this is your every day gambler just playing slots.

That is why you dont see complaints with other casinos. They are doing their due diligence and proper checks to come to the conclusion if we are laundering money. It seems L&L is taking an overall uninformed approach where they arent even bothering to check the play history to decide if there is any actual red flags. They just think of wow this person is using cash to deposit and withdrawing.. red flag! Well no. Because on my account ive been there for years and made deposits over the years. And I have had 2 cashouts total. So really flagging me for money laundering is someone not doing their job properly or efficiently.

 

[colinsunderland]

It depends on the players history. If someone is buying a prepaid card, depositing it and wagering it the 1x and cashing it out. Yes suspicious.

If the player is depositing and playing slots for hours or days winning losing, lose. Redeposit few days later. Play.. win.. cashout. Then its quite simple to see this is your every day gambler just playing slots.

That is why you dont see complaints with other casinos. They are doing their due diligence and proper checks to come to the conclusion if we are laundering money. It seems L&L is taking an overall uninformed approach where they arent even bothering to check the play history to decide if there is any actual red flags. They just think of wow this person is using cash to deposit and withdrawing.. red flag! Well no. Because on my account ive been there for years and made deposits over the years. And I have had 2 cashouts total. So really flagging me for money laundering is someone not doing their job properly or efficiently.

Oh I wasn't saying I agreed with it, I think I've been vocal enough on here regarding SoW requests for people to know my views on them was just pointing out pre-paid cards are certainly a higher risk

 

[lockinlove]

Oh I wasn't saying I agreed with it, I think I've been vocal enough on here regarding SoW requests for people to know my views on them was just pointing out pre-paid cards are certainly a higher risk

It just all gives me a headache to be honest. ZZZzzzZZZzz

I feel bad for Dionysis though. Ive had that happen when you get a good win and it gets caught up in BS documents crap. Nothing more annoying than that

 

[pinnit2014]

If they allow Bitcoin deposits then there will be a lot of heads exploding in their compliance department.

 

[goatwack]

Cryptos shouldn't even be accepted by any casino if they're claiming to be serious about AML, crime or tracing SoW to be fair

 

[pinnit2014]

AFAIK the UKGC allow bitcoin in their licencees? Which, given their incessant pursuit of AML compliance, appears weird as bitcoin exchanges didn’t need to follow AML? (the 5th AML regulations will have changed this-and which also singles out prepaid cards as well )

 

[ternur]

casinos even asking for a utility bill is too much if we want to get into it. A piece of id has your address picture and expiry date. Everything a casino needs. But the utility bill is standard for all casinos so this isnt out of the normal at all. Jus sayin'

Not the case in many countries. Here for example none of the IDs have address info in them.

I'd like to see casinos using strong, online identification methods more instead of pictures of a physical IDs.

 

[lockinlove]

Not the case in many countries. Here for example none of the IDs have address info in them.

I'd like to see casinos using strong, online identification methods more instead of pictures of a physical IDs.

True, I figured all countries had that.

 

[Mr Wild]

Malta is enforcing same rules as UKGC. So you would need to send in SOW regardless of where you are from if you play at a casino with MGA licence.
Maybe not all operators has started to enforce it, but within 12 - 18 months. You will not be able to gamble within EU without supplying SOW after reaching a certain level of gameplay/deposit level or maybe they even have other flags which they consider to be high risk.

 

[colinsunderland]

Malta is enforcing same rules as UKGC. So you would need to send in SOW regardless of where you are from if you play at a casino with MGA licence.
Maybe not all operators has started to enforce it, but within 12 - 18 months. You will not be able to gamble within EU without supplying SOW after reaching a certain level of gameplay/deposit level or maybe they even have other flags which they consider to be high risk.

Where do the regulations state that a deposit or turnover level is a trigger for SoW?

 

[Mr Wild]

You can use whatever you wish, it's risk based approach and common indicators are deposit and turnover.

 

[Jono777]

Where do the regulations state that a deposit or turnover level is a trigger for SoW?

You can use whatever you wish, it's risk based approach and common indicators are deposit and turnover.

Might be embarrassing myself here but surely at some point, every single player, including all the genuine ones who deposit tiny amounts and play at minimum bets will hit these deposit/turnover levels

Is a better explanation 'x' deposits and/or 'y' turnover in 'z' time frame, rather than lifetime ?

For example £5,000 deposited in 3 months would trigger Sow whereas £5,000 in 24 months would not.

Possibly poor examples for which I apologise but I really cannot get my head around these guidelines, especially towards the low rollers who deposit paltry amounts 2-3 times a week so cannot possibly be money laundering or gambling excessively to suggest a RG issue?

 

[goatwack]

I've probably hit the 20K deposit trigger by now. Mind you it's been over 6 years. Pretty slow way to launder money. Should have never listened to Pablo

To the Fraud Departments at all casinos:

" "

 

[colinsunderland]

You can use whatever you wish, it's risk based approach and common indicators are deposit and turnover.

I'm sorry but how on earth can deposit and turnover levels be indicative of money laundering across the board without using other factors at the same time to assess the account? I certainly get that certain automatic factors can be used in deciding if a customer is a high risk of being involved in crime/ML, but deposit and turnover alone shouldn't be one of them in my view.

If VS's are serious about money laundering perhaps they should look at their current way of deciding where a withdrawal goes, as you are one of the only casinos that make money laundering a lot easier.

 

[MaltesePlayer]

Hey guys. Mind if I jump in ? I work in Risk and Payments for a casino.

These are normally some of the things taken into consideration for a casino to reach the SOF /SOW request -

1) Customer registered time with the casino.
2) Deposits compared to Withdrawals (This isn't accurate but say Goatwack <3 deposited his 20k but took out 60k in WD). If he's in the positive, chances are we won't ask as we don't see him as an RG / Payments Risk (unless his gameplay is shady like opposite betting on roulette)
3) Frequency of Deposits compared to time registered.
4) Interaction with CS regarding Gameplay / bonuses in comparison with his deposits. (Is the customer aggressively asking for bonuses? Is the customer depositing 5k, losing it and then rages with CS to get a bonus or saying that it's a scam? Only to go back to play less than 5 minutes after with another deposit).

It's both on a Risk and RG standpoint that the SOW / SOF request stands. Depends on where the concern is coming from. Sometimes at my casino, all we do is just ask the customer what he works as (of course, if he's a major player, we need proof to back it up like a payslip or something) to be able to calculate his yearly income (not counting he might play elsewhere but we do consider how much rent / bills might cost in his area)

I dunno if I helped at all, nor do I want to sound like I'm defending any casino but do understand that casinos have certain risks to analyze with a deposit. Trust me I don't like sending the email to the customer asking for this. Although I do have to state that we normally pay out the Withdrawal and just block future deposits until we get a response. Yes, most casinos do this manually by checking excel sheets or software designed for it, but we do sometimes press the block deposits button a tad too late

 

[Mr Wild]

I'm sorry but how on earth can deposit and turnover levels be indicative of money laundering across the board without using other factors at the same time to assess the account? I certainly get that certain automatic factors can be used in deciding if a customer is a high risk of being involved in crime/ML, but deposit and turnover alone shouldn't be one of them in my view.

If VS's are serious about money laundering perhaps they should look at their current way of deciding where a withdrawal goes, as you are one of the only casinos that make money laundering a lot easier.

Stolen funds is an example. If a customer loses 10,000 eur in a month and works as an accountant, that would be a case where you would need to investigate SOW.

 

[Steviedoo]

I'm sorry but how on earth can deposit and turnover levels be indicative of money laundering across the board without using other factors at the same time to assess the account? I certainly get that certain automatic factors can be used in deciding if a customer is a high risk of being involved in crime/ML, but deposit and turnover alone shouldn't be one of them in my view.

If VS's are serious about money laundering perhaps they should look at their current way of deciding where a withdrawal goes, as you are one of the only casinos that make money laundering a lot easier.

Does mr wild work for VS? As in videoslots.

 

[Mr Wild]

Does mr wild work for VS? As in videoslots.

I do, but I dont post on behalf of VS here. This is my personal account.

 

[slotter999]

May I ask which casino you work for?