Kiss Casino Ripped me OFF

[lacypuff]

Kiss Casino

This whole situation is absurd. I've just banged off an email to CJ, but this email offer takes the cake, and I'm not even going to wait for a reply.

Kiss Casino - Rogued!

Everyone thank you for your help with this issue. Hopefully, CJ and Kiss Casino or Montana Dispute will help resolve the issue at hand.

Thanks
Andrew

 

[Stanford]

Everyone thank you for your help with this issue. Hopefully, CJ and Kiss Casino or Montana Dispute will help resolve the issue at hand.

Thanks
Andrew

Rogueing has made all issues clear but one. Will Montana Dispute step up and fix this? This is now very much about the dispute procedure.

Good Luck Andrew. Hope you get paid.

Stanford

 

[jerseyguy11]

This whole situation is absurd. I've just banged off an email to CJ, but this email offer takes the cake, and I'm not even going to wait for a reply.

Kiss Casino - Rogued!

they certainly cant expect anything else. What the did is basically committ fraud against this player.

well done meister and thanks for having such an unbiased forum.

 

[jerseyguy11]

gl with your complaint andrew. montana seems to be good at handling disputes, so im pulling for you too.

 

[lacypuff]

Kiss Casino

This whole situation is absurd. I've just banged off an email to CJ, but this email offer takes the cake, and I'm not even going to wait for a reply.

Kiss Casino - Rogued!

If you recieve any useful information let me know.

Thanks
Andrew

 

[Tester]

They owe me $1,362

Kiss' sister casino Giant Vegas is still owing me $1,362.

Here is the detailed story

deposit 1) 03/13/04 200, bonus 400, max cashout = 2000. I lose everything and they assure me by email that the wagering requirements does not carry over.

deposit 2) 03/14/04 2000, bonus 600, no max cashout on this. I have on file all the terms pages from their web site.

cashin) 03/28/04 5,362. They paid me just 2,000 saying there was a max cashout of 2,000.

after complaining to Montana they pay me another 2,000. so I've got overall 4000 out of 5,362.

I cannot find a reason not to pay me the whole amount.

the coupon that did have a max cashout was lost and they assured me it does not carry over.

Or they want to apply their later rule of 2000 max cashout for all weekly coupons. A rule that was not there at the time I made the deposit.

Someone has an idea how to handle this?

 

[jetset]

Last I heard Montana was answerable to the boss at RTG, so if they have been unable to satisfactorily explain their ruling and the shortfall on your claim maybe Mike Staw (perhaps through the 'Meister?) might be your court of final appeal.

It seems certain that Kiss management have no interest in looking after you, and one gets the feeling that with the stunts they are pulling these days they may not be long for this industry anyway.

 

[lacypuff]

Kiss Casino

Kiss' sister casino Giant Vegas is still owing me $1,362.

Here is the detailed story

deposit 1) 03/13/04 200, bonus 400, max cashout = 2000. I lose everything and they assure me by email that the wagering requirements does not carry over.

deposit 2) 03/14/04 2000, bonus 600, no max cashout on this. I have on file all the terms pages from their web site.

cashin) 03/28/04 5,362. They paid me just 2,000 saying there was a max cashout of 2,000.

after complaining to Montana they pay me another 2,000. so I've got overall 4000 out of 5,362.

I cannot find a reason not to pay me the whole amount.

the coupon that did have a max cashout was lost and they assured me it does not carry over.

Or they want to apply their later rule of 2000 max cashout for all weekly coupons. A rule that was not there at the time I made the deposit.

Someone has an idea how to handle this?

How long did it take montana disuptes to contact you and how did they go about doing it? I've been checking the dispute claim, but haven't seen anything and its been I think 10 days now.

Thanks
Andrew

 

[lacypuff]

Kiss Casino

Everyone thank you for your help with this issue. Hopefully, CJ and Kiss Casino or Montana Dispute will help resolve the issue at hand.

Thanks
Andrew

Brian,

I'm just curious, but have you heard something from CJ on this matter yet?

Thanks
Andrew

 

[The Dude]

Brian,

I'm just curious, but have you heard something from CJ on this matter yet?

Thanks
Andrew

You mean me? Nope, nada.

 

[tunisianswife]

I'm not sure what they mean by 'legal majority'; leaves open to alot of interpretation. Legal age to vote, smoke cigs is 18, however to gamble in the casinos in Indiana, one has to be 21.

 

[bagofmaggots]

RTG in Costa Rica

I count six Rouge RTG casino's in Costa Rica.....Seems to be a trend there?

 

[Tester]

Two months

How long did it take montana disuptes to contact you and how did they go about doing it? I've been checking the dispute claim, but haven't seen anything and its been I think 10 days now.

Thanks
Andrew

Two months.

Most of the time it was "to be solved withhin a week"........

But what I really angry about is why they said Giant Vegas should not pay me the whole amount.

jetset wasin contact with them. I also contacted them with no avail.

 

[lacypuff]

Kiss Casino

Two months.

Most of the time it was "to be solved withhin a week"........

But what I really angry about is why they said Giant Vegas should not pay me the whole amount.

jetset wasin contact with them. I also contacted them with no avail.

Did you contact the casino or Montana Dispute? If it was Montana Dispute how did you go about talking to them. It seems I made my complaint and now its just sitting their. Makes you wonder just how many complaints they have....

Andrew

 

[lacypuff]

Sending Advertisement again......

Look at this....They are continuing to send me advertisment even after they are saying, I'm not of legal age.

Andrew




From : Kiss Casino Welcome Team <[email protected]>
Sent : Monday, November 8, 2004 5:08 PM
To : "Andrew" <[email protected]>
Subject : Your Kiss Casino Welcome Team


Greetings from Kiss Casino, we hope that you are having a great day and are delighted to have you as part of our family!

This is just a quick note to offer you our wonderful $40 for $20 Promo. It is a 200% Deposit Bonus that will give you the chance to try out our games and hopefully HIT IT BIG! All you have to do is make a small deposit of $20 and reply to this email with 40 for 20 in the subject header and we will credit your account INSTANTLY with the $40!!!


Remember, this offer is only valid for the recipient of this email.

This is just one of the small ways that we say Thanks for preferring

Kiss Casino where lady luck blows you a kiss!

Best of luck with the games!


Sam and Emma
Your Kiss Casino
Welcome Team
[email protected]

 

[nafanny29]

Unfukingbelievable!!!!

I really hope you get your money from these scum mate.

 

[lacypuff]

Kiss Casino

Just to give everyone a update... I submitted my case to Montana Dispute back on 10/27/2004 and I'm still waiting for a response from them. Anyone else have any experience with them or is their anyway to contact them?

Thanks
Andrew

 

[sw2003]

Just to give everyone a update... I submitted my case to Montana Dispute back on 10/27/2004 and I'm still waiting for a response from them. Anyone else have any experience with them or is their anyway to contact them?

Thanks
Andrew

I think they do things on the timescale of weeks, not days! Just don't hold your breath!

 

[Stanford]

I think they do things on the timescale of weeks, not days! Just don't hold your breath!

Glad he is keeping this bumped though. If they don't respond I wonder how long dedicated players can keep this thread going.

Stanford

 

[lacypuff]

Kiss Casino

I've been holding my breathe for over 2 weeks now. I wonder when I should go back up for air. Would it be worth contacting RTG about the issue?

Thanks
Andrew

 

[Stanford]

I've been holding my breathe for over 2 weeks now. I wonder when I should go back up for air. Would it be worth contacting RTG about the issue?

Thanks
Andrew

After two weeks I would write Montana again. But wait and see what others have to say. Maybe Meister or Jetset will have some sage advice.

Stanford

 

[kangamick]

Any word yet Andrew ?

 

[lacypuff]

Kiss Casino

No word yet....

Andrew

 

[quber]

this is starting to slip... have to keep it high up the list.

any news lately Andrew? everyone should e-mail CJ everyday from as many different addresses as possible to let her know it won't go away.

how long will it take to waste $8,000 of her time deleting unwanted mail, also put huge attachments on them to clog up the inbox..maybe 8,000 images of a $1 bill

[email protected]

 

[jerseyguy11]

i truly hope he gets his money. this has got to be one of the most underhanded demonstration I've ever seen an online casino try and pull. I know this is bryans board and everyone is welcome to post, but I personally dont want to hear from CJ (even though its obvious shes not responding, after all what would she say). Im afraid I might go buck wild on her for being so heartless to this kid :/

 

[jerseyguy11]

actually I shouldnt say kid, he is a young adult and he is over 18. he is entitled to every cent. Make things right CJ. How can you sleep at night doing stuff like this.

 

[Stanford]

this is starting to slip... have to keep it high up the list.

[email protected]

Nice bump.

Stanford

 

[BakuPT]

Kiss Casino you just lost one potencial costumer (or should i say sucker???).

Andrew wish it all ends well for you.

 

[Lurkio]

everyone should e-mail CJ everyday from as many different addresses as possible to let her know it won't go away.

how long will it take to waste $8,000 of her time deleting unwanted mail, also put huge attachments on them to clog up the inbox..maybe 8,000 images of a $1 bill

Oh thats a smart idea ! Ill bet Bryan would love that happen back to him thanks to you..how about he tries tro sort it out himself through the proper channels..jees..are you 15 or 16? ..encourage dos attacks etc ..genius.

 

[Lurkio]

actually I shouldnt say kid, he is a young adult and he is over 18. he is entitled to every cent. Make things right CJ. How can you sleep at night doing stuff like this.

yes , I'll bet shes terrified at the thought of being mauled by a toothless sheep ..thats the trouble with gamblers..you are addicts, thats a fact..lose and bitch..win and gloat..as an affiliate I like people losing ..so if they break the rules..tough titty.

If an affilate screws up..even an inch..we get ZEROED too..get over it...thats the deal.

Try bitching in Vegas..

 

[unicorn40]

as an affiliate I like people losing ..so if they break the rules..tough titty.

Andrew broke NO rules...

You, as an affiliate, obviously couldn't care less about a player getting
screwed by a ROGUE casino. As long as you make a few bucks off them.

It's all about the money. Money for YOU, Lurkio. Bottom line. :axeman2:

But most of us already knew that...

You will never see me on your website with an attitude like you have...

 

[jerseyguy11]

yes , I'll bet shes terrified at the thought of being mauled by a toothless sheep ..thats the trouble with gamblers..you are addicts, thats a fact..lose and bitch..win and gloat..as an affiliate I like people losing ..so if they break the rules..tough titty.

If an affilate screws up..even an inch..we get ZEROED too..get over it...thats the deal.

Try bitching in Vegas..

im a little confused by your statements? what exactly are you trying to say, if anything?

 

[jetset]

this is starting to slip... have to keep it high up the list.

any news lately Andrew? everyone should e-mail CJ everyday from as many different addresses as possible to let her know it won't go away.

how long will it take to waste $8,000 of her time deleting unwanted mail, also put huge attachments on them to clog up the inbox..maybe 8,000 images of a $1 bill

[email protected]

Not a sensible or practical plan imo. A more effective way for the player to show his or her abhorrence or distrust of any online casino is to withold business - don't use 'em, and as Stanford said earlier spread the word.

 

[Stanford]

Not a sensible or practical plan imo. A more effective way for the player to show his or her abhorrence or distrust of any online casino is to withold business - don't use 'em, and as Stanford said earlier spread the word.

What I would like is a strong players union whose players would fan out and keep these issues alive. Maybe maintain a list of unresolved complaints and even post those occasionally at the major boards.

However, it has to be more than a case by case organazation. It needs to mirror the eCOGRA approach and lay clear principals that a casino can abide or not with a seal awarded or not accordingly.

Until then, just a banding together of players may have to do. But without the detailed principals I think it will be much less effective.

Maybe at yearend the players could put together a list of casinos with unresolved issues with the appropriate links to the posting and post it as an aid. Just thinking outloud.

Stanford.

 

[chuchu59]

yes , I'll bet shes terrified at the thought of being mauled by a toothless sheep ..thats the trouble with gamblers..you are addicts, thats a fact..lose and bitch..win and gloat..as an affiliate I like people losing ..so if they break the rules..tough titty.

If an affilate screws up..even an inch..we get ZEROED too..get over it...thats the deal.

Try bitching in Vegas..

Lurkio,

As the name implies,you are lurking around the corner for easy prey. That's a terrible attitude you have here. For all those who followed this thread,we know what we are talking about. The kid definitely deserves every cent of his winnings.

 

[BakuPT]

thats the trouble with gamblers..you are addicts, thats a fact..

as an affiliate I like people losing

If an affilate screws up..even an inch..we get ZEROED too..get over it...thats the deal.

Looks like you are spiting in the soup.

Had i a casino you would just have screwed up.

 

[quber]

..encourage dos attacks etc ..genius.

i don't see how the members of this board sending individual e-mails could constitute a DOS attack unless everyone that ever registered sent one at the same time, and then it would be the shortest DOS attack in history.

Individual e-mails sent at random times is just a pain for the receiver and shows support for Andrew and also lets CJ know that lots of people are aware of the underhand way they conduct business. it will also let her know how many online Casino players will not be visiting the site because of this fraud.

 

[The Dude]

i don't see how the members of this board sending individual e-mails could constitute a DOS attack unless everyone that ever registered sent one at the same time, and then it would be the shortest DOS attack in history.

Individual e-mails sent at random times is just a pain for the receiver and shows support for Andrew and also lets CJ know that lots of people are aware of the underhand way they conduct business. it will also let her know how many online Casino players will not be visiting the site because of this fraud.

Yeah, but it constitutes harassment, and this is something I don't condone.

The bottom line in this case is that the casino applied its rule of disallowing a player to collect his winnings because he is deemed underage. This is their rule and it's their prerogative to enforce it. They paid back the player's deposit - mind you, I doubt that this would have happened in a land based casino. Imagine some 19-year-old approaching the cashier's booth in Vegas with his cash voucher. They ask for his ID (you must be 21 to gamble there) and he shows his DL which indicates that he's underage. Would the casino give him his winnings and tell him not to come back? Would they go back to the slots or the table he was playing at and give him his money back that he initially deposited. No I doubt it. They would probably call security and have hime escorted out of the casino area.

So before we go flying off the handle, let's take a reality check.

The only thing controversial about this is whether or not he is underage in his state to bet online. That's unclear. It also seems as though the casino is applying this sort of rule selectively - only to those who are underage and try to cash out. Well it's not a perfect world, just like the world in a Las Vegas land based casino, I bet there are a lot of minors who are not carded and get away with it. And I bet there are a number who get caught.

I say either let Montana make a decision on this, or just get over it. The casino isn't going to budge; sending shitloads of emails won't do any good. There are plenty of other casinos who take 18+ out there. But in my honest opinion, 19-year-olds shouldn't be out there gambling their money away anyway. They can't afford it - simple as that.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Its mentioned that they paid him back his deposit - I take it that was all his deposits he ever made at the casino, or just his last deposit?

(I can guess what the answer is with this rogue outfit)

 

[jetset]

Dirk is correct - one of the facets of their allegedly bad conduct has been the fact that they let this youngster register (with his age openly listed at 19) They were then apparently quite happy for him to gamble and lose.

Yet when he came back for another go and gambled...and won....suddenly the age thing is an issue with them.

 

[bethug]

The hole problem i see here is he won and the casino pull you to young to get paid to win.you cant say in his state its a age thing, when the usa dont even want us american to bet online.

so if i win to much at kiss i might want get paid cause it illegal in america.
nope to dope.

Montana, should have made its mind up, but i have already, they need to give the man his winnings, until then they are thieves

 

[lacypuff]

Kiss Casino Sucks....

Well everyone I've been a little ticketed off so I haven't been on the internet lately. I received a email from "Montana Dispute" or as I would like to call them "Montana Pukes". I've wrote them back recently about how online gambling is illegal in the U.S., but I believe they have closed the case. Here is response "Montana Disputes" gave me.

Thanks
Andrew

From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Montana Dispute - Updated
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:21:05 -0500

An update has been made to dispute # 2845

Comment: Dear Andrew Hurt, The Kiss Casino terms and conditions state
the following: "1. Player is the age of legal majority in the
jurisdiction in which Player resides". This means that the player must
be of legal majority in the jurisdiction in which player resides, not in
the casino's jurisdiction or in the jurisdiction of the place where the
player was born; it mentions that the player MUST be of legal age in the
place where he/she resides.
(Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) ) Please also note the
references listed below, as they pertain to the legal age of gambling in
the state of Indiana, which is 21 years of age. This taken from the
Indiana Gaming Commission web site. Information Maintained by the Office
of Code Revision Indiana Legislative Services Agency: IC 4-33-9-12
Persons under 21 years of age; presence in gambling area Sec. 12. (a)
Except as provided in subsection (b), a person who is less than
twenty-one (21) years of age may not be present in the area of a
riverboat where gambling is being conducted. (b) A person who is at
least eighteen (18) years of age and who is an employee of the riverboat
gambling operation may be present in the area of the riverboat where
gambling is conducted. However, an employee who is less than twenty-one
(21) years of age may not perform any function involving gambling by the
patrons. As added by P.L.277-1993(ss), SEC.124. IC 4-33-9-13 Persons
under 21 years of age; wagering prohibited Sec. 13. A person who is less
than twenty-one (21) years of age may not make a wager under this
article. As added by P.L.277-1993(ss), SEC.124.
(

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) Also note
these references: Indiana Casino Guide: All casinos normally offer as
standard: blackjack, craps, roulette, slots, video poker, video keno,
and caribbean stud poker. Some casinos also offer: baccarat, mini
baccarat, poker, pai gow poker, three-card poker, spanish 21, big 6
wheel, and let it ride. The minimum gambling age is 21.
(

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) Gambling and the Law:
Minimum Legal Age to Place a Bet: Minimum gambling age for Casinos &
Slot Machines in Indiana is 21 years of age.
(

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) The casino has refunded
your initial deposit of $900.00, and has disabled your account from
further play. Regards, The Player Dispute Team.

 

[lacypuff]

Kiss Casino Sucks...my reply to Montana Dispute

Internet online gambling is illegal in the United States. So why are you electing to enforce certain laws and not all of them? Also, if it is illegal to payout to someone in Indiana that is under 21, then why are other well known sites paying out? Here are some emails that I have for examples of casinos that do payout. What makes Kiss Casino different than them?


PARTY POKER

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Information [#1894165]
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:51:51 -0500 (EST)

Dear Andrew,

Thank you for contacting us.

To be able to play on PartyPoker.com you are required to be of 18 years.

For you to be able to play offline the legal age at PartyPoker.com is 21 years. e.g. to be able to play in the finals of PartyPoker.comMillionIV tournament at cruise the minimum age is 21 years.

You can request for cashout of the winnings if you are of 18 years as this is the legal age to play at the site.

As per the state laws we request you to please compulsorily check with the local legal authorities. They will be able to assist you better.

If you have any questions or suggestions, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Care Department at any time. We are here 24/7 to assist you via email.

Thank you for choosing us as your online gaming site!

Priyanka
Poker Customer Care


BODOG.com

From: "Customer Service " <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [ #843276] Rules of Age of Majority Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:56:09 -0500

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for contacting Bodog Customer Service. Participation in
Bodog's wagering system is open only to those individuals who are 18
years of age or older, and are not residents of Canada. As we do not
give legal opinions on other jurisdictions, we recommend that you
consult your local laws.

We're a European-owned company regulated by the laws of the Government
of Costa Rica. BoDog, takes pride in being federally licensed by the
Costa Rican government, and confidently holds 100% of all deposits plus
winnings for all players in a segregated reserve account with Europe's
largest Private Bank in Zurich, Switzerland.

To view our license please visit our website. If you require any
further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,
Customer Service

BoDog.com
Sportsbook - Casino - Poker
[email protected]
1-888-263-0000

 

[bethug]

so sad

Kiss is a shame casino.

 

[jetset]

The Montana response still does not address why this casino management allowed Andrew to register, play and lose after clearly recording his age as 19, or why this age restriction was applied only when he came back for a second try and actually won something.

Andrew, unfortunately it's no good pointing out what other casinos do, or the confused situation in the USA on the legal standing of Internet gambling. Montana is in Panama City, Kiss and Giant Vegas are Australian owned but registered in Costa Rica and the T&Cs in question are theirs...not some other RTG powered casino's.

PS: It would be informative to know how many "losing" 18 years olds remain on the books here.

 

[The Dude]

The Montana response still does not address why this casino management allowed Andrew to register, play and lose after clearly recording his age as 19, or why this age restriction was applied only when he came back for a second try and actually won something.

Actually, when he signed up (and like other players registering at RTG casinos) he checked the box agreeing he was of legal age. He believed he was...but he wasn't. This is the information that the casino had - that he attested that he was of legal age.

Again, the issue here is that if a casino will null and void this "illegal" play, then they ought to null and void all of his play thus returning all previous deposits. That's my take on it.

By the way, online gambling is not explicitly illegal in the US except perhaps in some jurisdictions.

 

[nafanny29]

By the way, online gambling is not explicitly illegal in the US except perhaps in some jurisdictions.

"Grey Areas" dont you just love em!!!

 

[quber]

Again, the issue here is that if a casino will null and void this "illegal" play, then they ought to null and void all of his play thus returning all previous deposits. That's my take on it.

They only voided and returned (or claimed to) his 'illegal' play because it was $900 and a lot cheaper than paying out $8000. If his total deposits had been more than $8000 they would not have returned it.

If they believe he played illegally they should pay the winnings and then go to court to claim them back. They are not in a position to interpret law and judge someone guilty only the courts can do that.

Information Maintained by the Office
of Code Revision Indiana Legislative Services Agency: IC 4-33-9-12
Persons under 21 years of age; presence in gambling area Sec. 12. (a)
Except as provided in subsection (b), a person who is less than
twenty-one (21) years of age may not be present in the area of a
riverboat where gambling is being conducted.

Andrew, How far were you from the nearest riverboat?

 

[The Dude]

They are not in a position to interpret law and judge someone guilty only the courts can do that.

Actually, they can do whatever they want to do. It's their casino. They can disqualify you for wearing frilly panties while playing, or allow only people under 5'3" to play. It's strictly up to them, but enforcing it would be their upcoming or downfall. It would have to have a contigency plan or either well thought through. It seems as though not much thought was put into this whole situation.

The bottom line is that if his winning play was null and void, then all of his play (win or lose) should be null and void. Thus all of his deposits should either be returned to him, or his winnings should be honored. His play is either valid or non-valid. You can't have both.

But the casino probably feels they are handling it the way a land based casino would handle it; a minor is found on the premises, they get booted. I don't think the casino would dig through records or review their security videos to try and give the minor back the money he already lost. That's my guess. Maybe someone out there with landbased managerial experience could enlighten us on what they would have done.

 

[chuchu59]

Actually, they can do whatever they want to do. It's their casino. They can disqualify you for wearing frilly panties while playing, or allow only people under 5'3" to play. It's strictly up to them, but enforcing it would be their upcoming or downfall. It would have to have a contigency plan or either well thought through. It seems as though not much thought was put into this whole situation.

The bottom line is that if his winning play was null and void, then all of his play (win or lose) should be null and void. Thus all of his deposits should either be returned to him, or his winnings should be honored. His play is either valid or non-valid. You can't have both.

But the casino probably feels they are handling it the way a land based casino would handle it; a minor is found on the premises, they get booted. I don't think the casino would dig through records or review their security videos to try and give the minor back the money he already lost. That's my guess. Maybe someone out there with landbased managerial experience could enlighten us on what they would have done.

In Macau or the casinos within cruise ships,they ask for proof of age at the entrance. If you get in,whatever you win,they will honour it.