Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

[hapaboii]

I busted out at Joyland and they had the nerve to offer me some reload bonus. I told them about how they haven't been paying winners anyway and demanded a refund on my $500 deposit. In their response, I couldn't believe that they said this :

"Our Casino is much like any other business; some days we lose money and others we win. We have absolutely no reason to cheat, as being fair will be better for us in the long run."

"You can rest assure that the games are fair and honest, and you do have a very good chance of winning."

They explained how their random number generator is fair, etc. I told them that this was about them cheating players out of legitimate winnings. Apparently they forwarded my messages for further review, doubt I'll hear back.

 

[jetset]

Well, that's at least two losing players who were not given their deposits back - anyone know of any others?

 

[TeddyFSB]

Well, that's at least two losing players who were not given their deposits back - anyone know of any others?

I lost my $500 deposit but haven't heard anything. However, my understanding is that Joyland is now trying to return winnings-comps to the winning players. Under this policy I am not sure how losing players can justifiably claim to be shafted by Joyland. I believe there were 3 possible solutions that Joyland could argue for: 1)return all deposits including those of losing players, 2)return all winnings-comp point winnings, 3)pay everyone fair and square. Seems to me that losing players should be entitled to something only under option 1). It should be noted however that Joyland started off with option 0)steal all winnings and losing deposits, and they now think they can get away with option 2).

Anyway, personally I am not planning to PAB over my $500, I'd rather see the winning players get all the winnings (including the winnings from comps of course).

I also wonder if Joyland is contacting now all players they shafted or only the players who PAB'd. I'd like to think that they are contacting everyone, but I wouldn't count on Joyland.

 

[thelawnet]

qazwsx
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: .
Posts: 10


ROFL

Today, 10:01 AM
casinomeister


Forum account deleted

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hhlqh's account has been deleted. From the registration sign-up rules:

When filling out your registration information, please refrain from entering merely an "*" or "-" or "dfdfd" in the "about you" or "location" fields. These are considered "bogus" answers and your application will be discarded.

Please feel free to re-register without bogus answers.

So uh, why is it ok for suspected casino shills to post bogus information, but not ok for this random poster on the poker forum?

 

[GrandMaster]

I lost my $500 deposit but haven't heard anything. However, my understanding is that Joyland is now trying to return winnings-comps to the winning players. Under this policy I am not sure how losing players can justifiably claim to be shafted by Joyland. I believe there were 3 possible solutions that Joyland could argue for: 1)return all deposits including those of losing players, 2)return all winnings-comp point winnings, 3)pay everyone fair and square. Seems to me that losing players should be entitled to something only under option 1). It should be noted however that Joyland started off with option 0)steal all winnings and losing deposits, and they now think they can get away with option 2).

If Joyland only pays winning minus comps then losing players can argue that they only played at Joyland because of the promotion, and since the casino does not honour the promotion, then their play should be voided and there deposits refunded. I don't think that Joyland management will agree with this, but casinos should not be allowed to advertise promotions, then only pay the winners what they would have won anyway and pocket the losers' money.

 

[The Dude]

So uh, why is it ok for suspected casino shills to post bogus information, but not ok for this random poster on the poker forum?

It's a matter of catching it in time. For a while, all new registrations were moderated - in other words they would be reviewed before admittance. This was in response to a bunch of spammers from Russia who were nailing this board, WOL and a number of others with spam. This was his m.o.; sign up at a board usually several times a day with "*" or ghghg in the fields.

He tired of having these accounts deleted and he went away. So now new registrations are not moderated anymore. But nevertheless, when people do sign up like so, I delete them when I come across them.

hhlqh signed up, made a couple of cross postings before I caught it, then wham he got nailed. Since then he's re-signed up with information in the fields.

When qazwsx signed up, he made a number of posts before I woke up, made a pot of coffee, and reviewed his info. And since he had a lot of interesting things to say - I let him continue.

I think there are a number of people who are glad I let him continue to post. He seemed to know a lot of things that some of us didn't realize. Don't you agree?

Too bad he's chosen not to post anymore.

qazwsx

 

[thelawnet]

When qazwsx signed up, he made a number of posts before I woke up, made a pot of coffee, and reviewed his info. And since he had a lot of interesting things to say - I let him continue.

I think there are a number of people who are glad I let him continue to post. He seemed to know a lot of things that some of us didn't realize. Don't you agree?

Too bad he's chosen not to post anymore.

qazwsx

Well that seems sensible enough.

I guess you have his IP address (es?), and as a courtesy to the rest of us who follow the rules and post our locations and info, it would be only fair if you let us know where it reverses to/who owns it, whether it is an ISP or whatever.

 

[caruso]

If Joyland only pays winning minus comps then losing players can argue that they only played at Joyland because of the promotion, and since the casino does not honour the promotion, then their play should be voided and there deposits refunded.

You would be pushed to call this comp point...err...glitch / mistake / cock-up (or whatever) a "promotion".

Interestingly, I see that the promo (the actual one, not the comps) has now been changed. Even more interestingly, I cannot find a single term or condition relating to it anywhere, having fine-toothcombed the site. When I click on the promo advert, all it brings up is the download.

Covering all traces of the evidence?

Then there's that wretched "floating" download button, always hovering in your face. What a horrible, tacky site.

The person I feel sorry for in all this is the fella who hit a 20K royal - I hope the hell he gets paid. To hit such a nice win and get screwed must be galling beyond belief. At the very least, the casino must honour the winnings from the promo, even if they re-calculate the comps.

All of this confirms my opinion that shooting for these 4% comps was a gargantuan error of judgement on the part of the players. The casino just wasn't going to pay.

 

[ElDuderino]

This group is horrible. Today I asked for a withdrawal reversal bonus (as I had been given one last time I was fortunate enough to withdraw) at Monaco Gold, and I got this:

"Dear xxx,

Greetings from Monaco Gold Casino. This is Denise from the support team.

We have received your request for a bonus for reversing the withdrawal. However, we regret to inform you that your bonus request has been declined by our system. The reason may be as a result of your history in online gaming and/or banking and credit card systems. The reason may also be as a result of gaming habits the casino determines to be bonus abuse. In any event, we are unable to credit your account with the bonus you have requested. Please note that this is done in accordance with our casinos Terms of Use which and be found at www.monagoldcasino.com/termsofuse.html and reads as follows:

The Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the players original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered in Baccarat, Roulette, or Craps. The Casino reserves the right to refuse or rescind the bonus for any reason including, but not restricted to, player abuse. In case of abuse, the Casino reserves the right to discontinue player's membership and to prevent the player from accessing the Casino in the future.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused, and hope that we have your cooperation and understanding in this matter.

Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact the Monaco Gold Casino Support Team. We are available 24 Hours a day, 7 days a week.

With Best Regards,

xxx
Monaco Gold Casino"

That's horrible. I didn't wager on roulette, blackjack, or craps, and the last time I played at their casino I WAGERED OVER 200,000 FOR A BONUS WITH AN 18,000 WR!!!!!! Good gravy, if that's bonus abuse, I'll be a monkey's ass.

I am hopin Bryan's only biting his tongue until Joyland shows they really intend not to do anything, because this is really, truly sickening. Joyland won't even acknowledge that they're part of Crown Solutions, then they use the fact that I played at Joyland fair and square, got screwed by them, and then bonus banned.

I'm going to stop before I say anything I'll regret, but time is rapidly coming to the point where I'm going to let EVERY SINGLE CASINO AFFILIATE I KNOW ABOUT THE ROGUISH BEHAVIOR OF THIS GROUP. Monaco Gold didn't say a damn thing when I busted my initial bonus there, but I dare win a bit, and I'm an abuser. Disgraceful.

 

[jetset]

I think Grandmaster makes an excellent point here, although like him I doubt this Joyland management will honour their obligations on the comp points issue:

QUOTE:
If Joyland only pays winning minus comps then losing players can argue that they only played at Joyland because of the promotion, and since the casino does not honour the promotion, then their play should be voided and there deposits refunded. I don't think that Joyland management will agree with this, but casinos should not be allowed to advertise promotions, then only pay the winners what they would have won anyway and pocket the losers' money.
UNQUOTE

And we will likely not know what the end result of all of our efforts have been because Joyland will be picking off the complainants with direct individual offers and probably not addressing everyone prejudiced by their questionable actions in this sorry affair. Their deployment of the non-disclosure and positive posting conditions says a lot about their integrity in this issue imo.

So unfortunately, they will probably get away with most of the consequences of their screw-up, although the damage they have done to their reputation will linger for some time and that will cost them some business in the medium term.

But if they continue to operate like this, imo they will not survive or grow.

 

[The Dude]

Well that seems sensible enough.

I guess you have his IP address (es?), and as a courtesy to the rest of us who follow the rules and post our locations and info, it would be only fair if you let us know where it reverses to/who owns it, whether it is an ISP or whatever.

Believe me, if and when I spot posting fraud - the poster get's busted out in a most public way since I do not tolerate this in the least bit. The user in question's IP matches about 200 other AOL addresses - so that's not much help. I have other ways of identfying shills and what-nots, but I won't divulge my secrets here

Is he a suspected shill? Sure - can't say he isn't, but that is about as far as it goes for now. The casino has made a statement to me that they have nothing to do with him.

 

[ElDuderino]

Dear Bryan,

Why is it that Joyland is willing and able to respond to semi-mundane questions (those regarding purported shills, settlement offers, etc.) but is refusing to answer a large number of concerned players' e-mails (so far)? It feels like a big slap in the face... like, "We f'd up big time, but we insist on f'ing our players over and doing everything on our terms."

Meh, I'm really quite disenfranchised by this whole experience. I am holding out hope that you're as appalled as the rest of us, and are merely exercising discretion (i.e., giving Joyland the opportunity to see the error of their ways) before you pursue further action. I have sincere faith that Joyland will, voluntarily or involuntarily, make things right. Having the great CM on our side (assuming of course you think the players are in the right) couldn't hurt! :notworthy

 

[The Dude]

Dear Bryan,

Why is it that Joyland is willing and able to respond to semi-mundane questions (those regarding purported shills, settlement offers, etc.) but is refusing to answer a large number of concerned players' e-mails (so far)? It feels like a big slap in the face... like, "We f'd up big time, but we insist on f'ing our players over and doing everything on our terms."

Meh, I'm really quite disenfranchised by this whole experience. I am holding out hope that you're as appalled as the rest of us, and are merely exercising discretion (i.e., giving Joyland the opportunity to see the error of their ways) before you pursue further action. I have sincere faith that Joyland will, voluntarily or involuntarily, make things right. Having the great CM on our side (assuming of course you think the players are in the right) couldn't hurt! :notworthy

I've pretty much stated how I feel about the general situation in Thursday's newsletter. I will be much more candid in the next.

In the meantime, I'm still hoping that the casino does the right thing.

 

[Jay]

For the record, Joyland has never responded to my requests for an explanation, not even with "we're not paying you because you're a rotten scumbag advantage player". My complaint to Playtech is now two weeks old and I never got anything past "we have received your complaint and will respond within 72 hours". And I did PAB a week or so ago.

Nothing. No offers (though I think I lost enough that I'm not in the "winnings-comps > 0) category, so that's not shocking), no explanations, nothing.

And now that it's perfectly clear that they're really the same group as Club Dice... Well, I would hope that one provably dishonest casino would be enough to rogue the whole lot of them.

 

[thelawnet]

For the record, Joyland has never responded to my requests for an explanation, not even with "we're not paying you because you're a rotten scumbag advantage player". My complaint to Playtech is now two weeks old and I never got anything past "we have received your complaint and will respond within 72 hours". And I did PAB a week or so ago.

Nothing. No offers (though I think I lost enough that I'm not in the "winnings-comps > 0) category, so that's not shocking), no explanations, nothing.

And now that it's perfectly clear that they're really the same group as Club Dice... Well, I would hope that one provably dishonest casino would be enough to rogue the whole lot of them.

Well considering that Club Dice was set up by Playtech, and was their first casino, it's hardly surprising that their 'complaints service' is not all it could be when it comes to the left hand regulating what the right hand is doing.

This thread is almost 5 years old, but it's the same kind of story

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Some comments were particularly amusing

jetset:

If Club Dice has Antigua licencing then that is a hopeful shot. They have recently been revamping their legislation and have been boasting that they will now be policing their licencees more closely.

This could be a good test of their boasts.

Now four years later, with regards to my cynicism regarding Antigua:

jetset
Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,217


My response to thelawnet's pessimism is "nothing ventured, nothing gained" Look for pressure points here. MacDonald is a new-ish broom that may be trying to sweep a little better than the previous administration.

Ha ha. Nothing has changed. You can listen to them telling you what they say, but nothing will ever change.

Nobody sets up business in Antigua because they are looking for strong regulation and player protection.

They do it because it's a little rock in the middle of the ocean where you can do what you like away from prying eyes, who might ask such questions as just exactly what the relationship is between the two or three dozen casinos located on the island, and whether despite their differing names 'imperial e-club', 'crown solutions', 'christchurch gaming' etc., they are actually all the same.

See also

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or

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[Jay]

Rogue 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

 

[TeddyFSB]

Rogue 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

But seriously, personally I haven't played at any Playtech since the beginning of this debacle, and I don't plan to. There are at least 20 reputable Microgaming casinos that I'd be happy to play at instead. Actually, I wouldn't understand why anyone would play at Playtech after following this thread. What do they offer that Microgaming doesn't besides crooked operators?

I've seen a mention somewhere in the thread of a letter that Joyland wants people to sign before they give you your reduced winnings. Is anyone willing to post the text of this letter, if you have it? I'd like a good laugh.

 

[jetset]

You certainly have a certain abrasive style to your posts, thelawnet and it would be interesting to know who you are and the nature of your industry involvement. Perhaps we will have an opportunity to meet and exchange views one day - maybe at ICE in London as you seem to post from the UK?

Yes, I certainly took the previous director of online gaming in Antigua at his word when I met him and listened to what he had to say about tightening up the Antiguan regulations at various international industry conferences.

And I was disappointed when he did not deliver on his plans. But that does not imo presuppose that Antigua is corrupt or that his successor, Kaye MacDonald will also fail in making Antigua a more credible jurisdiction when it comes to handling player complaints. Until proven otherwise (and she has yet to be tested) I'm prepared to take a hopeful view because that gives players one more channel through which to address legitimate disputes rather than simply dismissing it out of hand.

The same applies to your questioning of this site when certain *rogue rulings* are not implemented when you think they should be. Personally, I prefer a measured approach that ensures open channels of communication before this sanction is imposed. Not always easy to argue when players are justifiably angry, but one I support as a more practical method through which Casinomeister gets results...and his success rate in these matters speaks for itself.

 

[ElDuderino]

This is *such* crap. Joyland's correspondence to me (and others, I presume) has gone out of it's way to make it clear that people who play video poker aren't bonus abusers... yet they bonus banned me at their sister casino, where I wagered TWENTY TIMES the wagering requirement for the only bonus I have ever received there. If that's bonus abuse, I want to see what the real abusers do... certainly not wager 20x the WR on large video poker spins.

I REALLY hope a resolution is forthcoming, or I'm going to spend moore time than I should tarnishing this group's reputation.

 

[thelawnet]

Yes, I certainly took the previous director of online gaming in Antigua at his word when I met him and listened to what he had to say about tightening up the Antiguan regulations at various international industry conferences.

And I was disappointed when he did not deliver on his plans. But that does not imo presuppose that Antigua is corrupt or that his successor, Kaye MacDonald will also fail in making Antigua a more credible jurisdiction when it comes to handling player complaints. Until proven otherwise (and she has yet to be tested) I'm prepared to take a hopeful view because that gives players one more channel through which to address legitimate disputes rather than simply dismissing it out of hand.

I can only speak based on experience: their site's complaint form went to a non-existent email address, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the effectiveness of their complaints procedure. Further, when I forwarded an email to Ms. Macdonald herself I did not receive any reply, nor to a previous email. And Antigua itself is hardly renowned for its probity:

their government was considered the most corrupt in the Caribbean, possibly the world. From serving as a tax haven, to drug smuggling, to embezzling, to arms smuggling, to vote fraud, to media control, to land-grabbing and even to domestic terrorism when they fell out of power from 1971-76, the Birds and their cronies did it all.

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That said, they have a new government, and it's possible things are improving.

 

[The Dude]

Well this thread has sure died down fast. I've been expecting a cluster of postings from happy clappy casino players who feel this has been resolved, and that they would be glad to continue playing at Joyland.

Guess I was wrong.

 

[Jay]

This thread only died down because there's nothing new to say. Everyone still has their money stolen by this dishonest casino (and unresponsive software provider) as far as I can tell. I'm just waiting for your next newsletter (and wondering if there was any point in a PAB against Joyland itself for thoroughly ignoring my complaint)

 

[Homer]

Well this thread has sure died down fast. I've been expecting a cluster of postings from happy clappy casino players who feel this has been resolved, and that they would be glad to continue playing at Joyland.

Guess I was wrong.

Joyland has not even contacted me. Am I the only one?

 

[andrew26]

Well this thread has sure died down fast. I've been expecting a cluster of postings from happy clappy casino players who feel this has been resolved, and that they would be glad to continue playing at Joyland.

Guess I was wrong.

You'll be hearing that from me when (if) my money hits neteller.

 

[The Gunslinger]

Well this thread has sure died down fast. I've been expecting a cluster of postings from happy clappy casino players who feel this has been resolved, and that they would be glad to continue playing at Joyland.

Guess I was wrong.

I'd imagine this was a joke.

I'll be waiting for the hordes of these players to come back and say that Joyland is again a place they'd be willing to play.

The Gunslinger

 

[Jay]

I'd imagine this was a joke.

I was guessing that his Joyland contact told him, "No, you don't need to rogue us, because we've solved all the problems and everyone is happy, and I'm sure they'll be posting on your board soon saying how happy they are to play at our casino again and again. Even though, obviously, none of them will ever have anything to do with us or our sister sites for the rest of their natural lives."

Because that seems like the sort of thing they would say, even though I'm clearly not the only one who's had no contact whatsoever.

 

[The Gunslinger]

I was guessing that his Joyland contact told him, "No, you don't need to rogue us, because we've solved all the problems and everyone is happy, and I'm sure they'll be posting on your board soon saying how happy they are to play at our casino again and again. Even though, obviously, none of them will ever have anything to do with us or our sister sites for the rest of their natural lives."

Because that seems like the sort of thing they would say, even though I'm clearly not the only one who's had no contact whatsoever.

This just keeps getting stranger and stranger.

The Gunslinger

 

[Jay]

Well, it's just a guess However, there is an earlier post when (in between the complaint posts from user after user) they tried to say that really everything was just fine except for a tiny fraction of users who were being abusive [ paraphrasing ]. I doubt they're changing tactics much.

 

[casinomike]

Joyland tried to bribe me $500 to drop the whole thing and pretend I like them on this forum

its going to take a lot more than $500 for that to happen, like how about 10.8 thousand ?

tell you what, call it $10,000 even and give the rest to your promotions manager as my appreciation for the best player comp promo ever conceived.

Imagine the positive press you could have turned this into

 

[The Gunslinger]

Imagine the positive press you could have turned this into

What could possibly be one of the greatest acts of defrauding players so far as I could remember could have just as well been one of the most generous casino give-aways of all time.

It's all in the way things are spun.

The Gunslinger

 

[jetset]

I find it worrying that Joyland are not contacting everyone they screwed on this disgusting example of bad casino management.

That indicates to me that they are not even sincere about the (reduced) liability they said they would shoulder in reviewing the cases of players generally as opposed to merely those that submitted PABs.

And there has clearly been no attempt to return deposits to losers.

This does not look good at all, and Playtech's silence and apparent lack of interest on their licensee's behaviour here should be of concern to everyone.

 

[The Gunslinger]

I find it worrying that Joyland are not contacting everyone they screwed on this disgusting example of bad casino management.

That indicates to me that they are not even sincere about the (reduced) liability they said they would shoulder in reviewing the cases of players generally as opposed to merely those that submitted PABs.

And there has clearly been no attempt to return deposits to losers.

This does not look good at all, and Playtech's silence and apparent lack of interest on their licensee's behaviour here should be of concern to everyone.

I think so too!

I'd imagine their stratagy is to simple stonewall players until the community would (as they presume) forget about their transgressions. It's hard to keep posting in a thread about somthing that has been having increasingly fewer and fewer developments of interest.

I think everyone should be asking themselves the same question: What exactly can we (as the community) and they (as first hand concerned parties; the players) do to help bring this to a just solution that won't echo fraud unto the world of online gaming for time to come?

The Gunslinger

 

[The Dude]

Just a heads up to any fraudsters - if you submit a PAB through me you're gonna get caught. And I WILL publicly bust you out.

This goes for any past fraudulent activity - I'm not kidding about this. I will trash your PAB and tell the casino to keep your money. Don't waste my time.

Just a little venting on my part...

 

[cashroom]

Who's defrauding who?

Without players online casino has no casino. This is the same group that changed the terms for a bonus at Carnival and changed there deposit bonus terms when Diamond club joined up with them not to mention some of the bad odds at other Playtechs that I joined up at. What are Bet365 the only descent Playtech left. I will just stick to casinos that I know will pay and have good odds unless it is free. I also am learning programming and guess what? Programs do what I say to do and I also can change the scripting if I want.

 

[Mr. Petre]

Hey Bryan, I just got back to your email.

 

[andrew26]

Thanks CM for your help in resolving this.

Note my new signature.

 

[casinomike]

are you guys receiveing emails from CM on your PAB's ?
I haven't seen one, I'm hoping my spam filters didn't block something important.

I did receive an offer for $500 from Joyland but I have not responded, is this my only recourse on my PAB ?

 

[ElDuderino]

Thanks CM for your help in resolving this.

Note my new signature.

I thought Joyland was going to wait until it was too late to save face, but it looks like they're beginning to do the right thing. Awesome!!!

I'm guardedly optimistic that they will right all the wrongs they have committed.

I'm still disappointed that they said that people who didn't play low risk games were not considered abusers, yet they haven't paid us. Also, I can't speak for others, but their sister casino bonus banned me, which could have only happened because of Joyland, as I previously lost about $2700 at the casino.

Like I said, Joyland overreacted (by bonus banning everyone across Crown (I presume), falsifying logs, and not paying). I neither know nor really care about anyone else, but I lose more than I win gambling online. If they've treated me like dirt, I can only imagine what they did to saavier players.

Dude

 

[The Dude]

are you guys receiveing emails from CM on your PAB's ?
I haven't seen one, I'm hoping my spam filters didn't block something important.

I did receive an offer for $500 from Joyland but I have not responded, is this my only recourse on my PAB ?

If you have received an offer, it's up to you to do what you want. I'm pretty much through with this whole situation. There are only three PAB's that I haven't forwarded yet - but the casino and Playtech should NOT be sitting around waiting for me to send them player complaints. The ball is in their court - they know what to do, they know who to contact. Playing their customer support is NOT my job. I have a website to run.

As far as I am concerned, this whole episode shows a casino at its worse - they blamed everyone to include their software provider (!) and their traffic (players) for their woes. It couldn't have been much worse.

 

[scrollock]

For the record, Joyland has never responded to my requests for an explanation, not even with "we're not paying you because you're a rotten scumbag advantage player". My complaint to Playtech is now two weeks old and I never got anything past "we have received your complaint and will respond within 72 hours". And I did PAB a week or so ago.

Nothing. No offers (though I think I lost enough that I'm not in the "winnings-comps > 0) category, so that's not shocking), no explanations, nothing.

And now that it's perfectly clear that they're really the same group as Club Dice... Well, I would hope that one provably dishonest casino would be enough to rogue the whole lot of them.

i dont how accurate and upto date this is, but according to online casino city club dice is now owned by empire online, but the website still says crown solutions. so does empire online own them now ?

talking about roguing the whole group, with empire online looking to buy sportingbet now we are talking about a whole lot of casinos being rogued, somehow i cant see it happening.

but if empire online do own this group and they then buy sportingbet, maybe you might some be able to achieve some kind of redress in the UK as i guess that empire onlline would technically owe the debt to you.

 

[sirius]

I think Online Casino City changed it after the news story came out about the potential purchase by Empire Online. The press release from Empire Online didn't mention Joyland as part of the Club Dice group so it may just be using the same license and could even have no owners other than Playtech now (as I said before, it used to have its own license called Joyland Gaming a couple of years ago and also had a Korean language site which isn't there now).

Although the CasinoCity database is much more up to date than mine, I once contacted them about incorrect information about Kiss and Giant Vegas casinos (I think they had them as using Playtech but they had moved to RTG) so I don't think it can be relied on 100%. BTW, I was just looking at a news story there a few hours ago and they had a big banner ad for Black Widow Casino, which probably isn't a good idea!

 

[jetset]

QUOTE: ....but the casino and Playtech should NOT be sitting around waiting for me to send them player complaints. The ball is in their court - they know what to do, they know who to contact. Playing their customer support is NOT my job. I have a website to run.

As far as I am concerned, this whole episode shows a casino at its worse - they blamed everyone to include their software provider (!) and their traffic (players) for their woes. It couldn't have been much worse. UNQUOTE

I absolutely agree - these guys have given themselves a seriously acute black eye by not handling this dispute in an honourable way.

BTW on the the Empire Online story - it's Sportingbet (and some as yet unfounded speculation that maybe Party Gaming too) that is chasing Empire Online with a GBP 700 million plus acquisition in mind - not the other way around.

And Empire Online have a three month DD window to get out of the deal on Clkub Dice - Crown.

 

[TrixSlice]

If they have three months to back out of the deal, what would be the best way to show them the wrong doings of Crown Solutions? Obviously they are connected if people are getting banned across the board. Actually, I just locked opening an account at New York. Other then New York, I'm just a member of Monaco and Joyland. Their email stated that do to my relationship with their 'affiliates'. I don't know what else to think. Are they not all located in the same complex? - I swear I heard that someplace.

Does anyone have a good connection with Empire Online, someone who will listen and realize the problem? Definatly looks like Joyland doesn't want to pay you big winners, so maybe you should expand this issue to those who have access to Joyland's balls.

 

[scrollock]

I think Online Casino City changed it after the news story came out about the potential purchase by Empire Online. The press release from Empire Online didn't mention Joyland as part of the Club Dice group so it may just be using the same license and could even have no owners other than Playtech now (as I said before, it used to have its own license called Joyland Gaming a couple of years ago and also had a Korean language site which isn't there now).

Although the CasinoCity database is much more up to date than mine, I once contacted them about incorrect information about Kiss and Giant Vegas casinos (I think they had them as using Playtech but they had moved to RTG) so I don't think it can be relied on 100%. BTW, I was just looking at a news story there a few hours ago and they had a big banner ad for Black Widow Casino, which probably isn't a good idea!

why is it this group of casinos feels the need to hide that they are all connected anyway ?

this reminds of virtual, cool cat, prism etc, etc, we all know they are the same company, so why do they bother to deny it ? or is it just a fact that all the dodgy casinos employ this tactic, just like they are all attracted to the same dodgy software (rtg & playtech).

ive just read the press release regarding the deal between club dice & empire online.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

according to this the only casinos in the club dice arm is

Club Dice Casino,
MonacoGold Casino,
Carnival Casino and
YouBingo.

now i have only have ever played at 3 playtechs, they are golden palace,monaco gold and carnival. i also opened an account at club dice, but was denied the sign up bonus, although i was told i was welcome to play there as they were happy with my record of play at their other casinos (not the impression i got with the way they tried to stall my payouts at the others).

i gather that if you open up more than one account at this group and they define your style of play as bonus abusing they will simply lock your account before you can even deposit.

now i gather that a major part of this deal is the player database, so the big question is why have my details been passed onto new york casino ? a supposedly independent casino. why am i being offered a sign up bonus at new york casino ? when i was previously denied any more sign up bonuses at any casinos under the crown solutions arm ?

either the casinos has sold on the player database to other parties aswell as empire online

or is it a case that all casinos under the crown solutions wing, i.e. club dice & those listed above, plus new york,joyland etc are all owned by the same people and they are using their own database to steal customers from a part of their group which they are selling on? in effect rendering the database worthless.

is it a coincidence that this inducement to take my business from monaco gold & carnival arrived just after the deal above was annouced ? (not that i had any business with them for long time due to the appaling way their group is run).

it even has to be asked, was this whole comp points fiasco another player stealing exercise, one that has totally back fired on them?

 

[jetset]

The Empire Online group is very online gambling savvy - especially in the marketing sphere - and I doubt that this incident will have escaped their notice. They seem to keep their ears pretty close to the ground.

But...they have a website and a contact point - that could be a useful channel if you think they may not be aware of what is going on here.

Scrollock as usual raises some interesting questions regarding who is in this Crown Solutions group and who isn't. Unfortunately transparency is not a common attribute of online casino owners!

 

[TrixSlice]

For the life of me, I just can't find Empire Online Limited's website! I can find countless articles, I can find the Star Wars Empire website ;o)

It's not www.empireonline.co.uk, is it? Not the kinda company I was looking for.

 

[The Dude]

https://www.casinomeister.com/podcasts/

In a nutshell, I've more or less had enough. If you've received an offer from the casino, it's up to you to take it or not. If I receive any more complaints, I'll be happy to forward these to the casino and Playtech. Other than that, that's it.

 

[ElDuderino]

A hearty thanks for you involvement in the matter Bryan. Out of curiosity, did Joyland/Playtech feed you a stream of bullshit, or did they basically just disregard your concerns?

Dude

P.S. I just listened to your radio show... you stole my pseudonym for your Bluff Magazine article! LOL, j/k. Good stuff on the radio show.

 

[Jay]

No speakers hooked up here.. grrr...

Anyway, I was kinda hoping that Club Dice would get rogued as obviously being the same exact management (since Joyland sent out their offers from a "clubdice" email by mistake). But I guess I'll take what satisfaction I can.

Thanks for playing CS rep for a while, Bryan. Someone has to...

Now I have a FAQ to update somewhere...

 

[The Gunslinger]

https://www.casinomeister.com/podcasts/

In a nutshell, I've more or less had enough. If you've received an offer from the casino, it's up to you to take it or not. If I receive any more complaints, I'll be happy to forward these to the casino and Playtech. Other than that, that's it.

It says in the Rogue section that Joyland is in the Kahnawake licencing jurisdiction. This isn't right is it? I thought it was Antigua?

The Gunslinger