Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

[Vesuvio]

It was always going to be far too easy for the casino to fudge its way out of.

I tend to agree that it's more than a little disingenuous for most of the players involved to claim they thought they'd been made instant VIPs (though less knowledgable players might have thought so), but I think the point is this isn't something the casino can "fudge its way out of".

They've had to go in for wholesale falsification of records and various incoherent claims to cover the fact that there isn't even a get-out clause to cover them in this case. All players have done is clicked to cash-in comp points at the rate announced in the software before they played. There was no software error (if the software processed claims at a different rate to the one shown that would have been a software error).

I disagree with those giving in to Joyland's "abuse" claims so that they can claim their "legitimate" (minus the comp points) winnings. The comp rate was just part of the way the casino was set up - and as ever players tried to make money however they could. If the casino was too generous (as others have been with bonuses), they just have to pay up and heed the lesson for the future. We'll still have to see if they will, of course, but if they don't they'll be dragging down the reputation of a number of companies that are much bigger than Joyland.

 

[freakin]

The key being "assume". However VIP anyone is, a 4% comp rate is extraordinary. To achieve such a level, if such exists, a player would have to be a seriously known quantity as a provenly serious sucker, with a lot of sucker-play history in the bag at the casino in question. To achieve that 4% level on signup is, I'm sure, unheard of. On that basis, yes, this was an unreasonable assumption. And again, the key is "assumption": there was no written backup to any of this. It was always going to be far too easy for the casino to fudge its way out of.

I recently saw a new casino start up. The promotions manager had obviously shown a complete lack of research in the world of signup bonuses, because they were offering an extremely generous blackjack bonus with a low wagering requirement. I knew that within a short period of time they would realize their mistake and correct it. They did. They corrected it by changing the terms and condition, and the $ amount of their bonus; they did not correcting it by screaming bonus abuse on all teh players who had accepted their offer and seizing their bonus + winnings. Even without any bonus, I would highly recommend this casino (and I have) to anyone looking for a place to play. Yeah, they lost money, but they surely gained some legitimate players because of it.

Joyland needs to realize that they have a group of 7 or 8 casinos that are quite well known in the world of online gambling. I do not think the amount they lost in this situation is more than 500,000 (and thats probably pushing it). How long do you think it takes to earn that much money? I'm guessing it's no more than a couple months. They handled this incredibly stupidly, and refusal to pay out is going to cost them a helluva lot more in the long run.

If they were smart, they would have said something like 'We're so generous that we paid out a half-million during a comp-point promo! Stay tuned for our next crazy promotion!'

Freakin

 

[The Gunslinger]

Joyland needs to realize that they have a group of 7 or 8 casinos that are quite well known in the world of online gambling. I do not think the amount they lost in this situation is more than 500,000 (and thats probably pushing it). How long do you think it takes to earn that much money? I'm guessing it's no more than a couple months. They handled this incredibly stupidly, and refusal to pay out is going to cost them a helluva lot more in the long run.

If they were smart, they would have said something like 'We're so generous that we paid out a half-million during a comp-point promo! Stay tuned for our next crazy promotion!'

Freakin

And Freakin, I think you touched on the bottom line here.

When does it become profitable to screw players? Joyland must realize that along with their own reputation, they're juggling that of Mon. Gold, NY Casino, Club Dice, Carnival ... etc. etc. Not to mention the fact that as could be expected over half (I didn't count) of this thread is blaming the software provider along with the casino. I figured that although we were stirring up a ruckus here on Casinomeister, it would still in the end be more profitable for the casino to just screw all of the players and wait for it all to blow over. That is until I found Link Removed (invalid URL) (safe.)

I think Joyland's management needs a simple weekend course in business critical analysis.

On one hand, if they don't pay the players:

+ They keep however much they would have had to pay out to players (an upper estimate seems to cap at $500,000)

o They establish industry precident for the non-payment of players on an extremely wide scale using the grounds of "a software error," which it clearly was not. Easily a "misconfiguration," possibly a deceptive tactic, but at any rate: Not a software malfunctionn.

- They incur what will undoubtedly be irrepairable damages to their single casino's reputation. A reputation which was brand new all of a two months ago.

- They incur what must be highly significant damages to the reputation of all other casinos which people the public is able to link them to, a group that extends at least to two other casinos, and more than likely to a majority of the popular Playtechs (sans the Golden Palace casinos.)

- They incur what will likely be significant damages to the reputation of the entire family of Playtech casinos, including what is possibly the most publicly well known online casino "Golden Palace."

- They incur what could possibly be temporary damages to the reputation of the online gaming world as a whole.

- Eventual losses no doubt in the millions over the long term for Joyland and it's related parties due to their actions in this dispute.


On the other hand, if they just pay the players:

+ (Most Significant) They will likely be able to salavage their reputation and repair what damage has been done to it thus far by "firing someone" and making good on what they should have done in the first place. Thus not causing damage to their reputation, nor their groups, nor Playtechs, nor Online Gaming as a whole.

+ They gain a publicity free pass card from the payment from the comp system, as well as easing the worries of anyone who would worry about depositing at their casino.

+ They get to keep their investment and continue from this day forward as a profitable casino (as most are) with a great deal of free advertising.

- They're out $500,000 (max) to players they have as creditors.

.... THAT'S THE ONLY DOWNSIDE FOR JOYLAND. I DON'T GET IT!!!!

This is making really clear to us how much whatever kinda money Joyland owes to it's players it worth to them. It's pointing out that if an Online Casino can screw you for that much money, they will screw you for that much money.

To the Joyland rep. involved in this dispute ... I ask that you listen. Regardless what you decide to do, I believe my assessment is generally accurate. I think your paramount concern should be that your point of no return (I'd imagine) is approaching at alarming speed. Either you're going to drag this out too far, and players are going to perminently lose faith in you, your affiliates, and your software ... you're going to flat out say you're not paying anymore people ... or someone's gunna get you on record saying somthing you shouldn't ... and when that happens, you'll be past the point of no return, and you'll have lost much more than whatever withholding players rightfull winnings could have gained you.

Why not make this right while you still have the chance?

The Gunslinger

 

[thelawnet]

After my account got credited (~ $1100) and I cashed-in, Joyland contacted me saying they forgot to subtract the 808 bonus. On the previous call I was told I could cash-in the full amount.
I only got ~$300, so that sucks. I'm done with this casino.

Can I clarify?

You deposit 500, they gave you 800.

You won a lot of comps, leaving you well in profit

They said 'we aren't going to pay you the comps, but you can have your 500 back like everyone else'

You 'considering I won without comps, can you please deduct them and give me my winnings?'

Casino 'ok'

a short time later:

Casino 'ha ha. Even though when you signed up you probably did so partly because of the comps, and as a result of them you won a good amount, so we thought we would just give you your deposit back. But now you've let us take the comps away, we have a special joyland surprise for you! Guess what?

You're not even getting your 500 back. Only 300 for you!'

Joyland - where the joy never stops.

 

[Amsterdamn]

Can I clarify?
You're not even getting your 500 back. Only 300 for you!'

No.
I got my 500 deposit back two weeks ago, like everybody else.
Yesterday I got 300 more.

 

[jon593]

No.
I got my 500 deposit back two weeks ago, like everybody else.
Yesterday I got 300 more.

whan you originally cashed out did the bonus get removed? i know it got removed from my account

 

[Amsterdamn]

whan you originally cashed out did the bonus get removed? i know it got removed from my account

Deposit: 500
Bonus: 808

Played, total of 464 comps

Cashout: 1214 (with bonus removed)

Deposit back: 500
Account credited: 1080
Cashout: (after removal from 808 'bonus') 272

Total winnings: 1214
Total from Joyland: 772

 

[funeralparty]

I think the thing that amazes me most about this thread is that people still play on their garbage software.

Had I taken the bonus and played at this casino, I would have assumed the generous comps were adjusted to make up for Playtech's rigged BJ games

 

[freakin]

I think the thing that amazes me most about this thread is that people still play on their garbage software.

Had I taken the bonus and played at this casino, I would have assumed the generous comps were adjusted to make up for Playtech's rigged BJ games

I :heart: playtech.

It's probably my favorite software to play VP on. I just wish they'd take care of this situation so I could actually support them and continue playing.

Freakin

 

[Lord_Have_Mercy]

I :heart: playtech.

It's probably my favorite software to play VP on. I just wish they'd take care of this situation so I could actually support them and continue playing.

Freakin

Support them or your habit? All Playtech casinos should be ban not just until they straighten this matter out. But also until they provide facts to prove their BJ is fair. We players have the power right now to bring Playtech down to its knees. I would suggest we all boycott them as a whole until everyone's questions are answered. DOWN WITH PLAYTECH

 

[andrew26]

Since Joyland and Playtech have decided to go about dealing with this matter in the most sleazy manner possible, I now introduce you to my new signature for this and other online discussion groups:

JOYLAND casino and Playtech Gaming STOLE my money.
Read all about it here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

We, as players, cannot let this casino group get away with this incredibly offensive activity without any damage to the reputations involved.

All the online casinos have going for them is the trust of the online gaming public. Without that they will fold. I ask you to join me in publicizing this matter outside of this thread and making sure that Joyland and Playtech are held accountable for this sleazy and dishonest way of doing business.

 

[caruso]

Has everyone who was owed ASIDE from comp points been fully paid? Any outstanding debts beyond this issue?

Mr / Mrs 20K royal paid up?

 

[jon593]

Has everyone who was owed ASIDE from comp points been fully paid? Any outstanding debts beyond this issue?

Mr / Mrs 20K royal paid up?

no, i have not tried to contact them because they are just trying to sweep things under the rug and get off with out paying out what they really owe

although if i were htis person i would contact them soon

 

[ElDuderino]

Has everyone who was owed ASIDE from comp points been fully paid? Any outstanding debts beyond this issue?

Mr / Mrs 20K royal paid up?

Nope! I would contact them (as invited to do so by their rep in this thread), but their total lack of professionalism (along with their tag of "abuser" on anyone who redeemed comp points AT THE RATE THEY SET THEM AT) means that I will wait til CM gets back and let Mr. Bailey address this for me. I will not extend myself to a group of people who makes such poor decisions and disrespect me so.

-Dude

 

[Casinomeister]

The Pitch a Bitch section will be reopened shortly, and I'd appreciate it if all players who have complaints concerning Joyland (besides those who have already filled out the form) to please submit a complaint through me:
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

This will give me the info I need to review and forward to the concerned parties. Thanks!

 

[qazwsx]

You need to put many players on your EVIL list, Bryan.

Here is the truth. This flaw was recognized and promoted at www.bonuswhores.com

Even the owner of the site has posted in this thread that he is due "5 figures". (Poster Jek187)

Upon the revelation of this error and the ensuing discussions here at CM, Jek187 removed the threads promoting this casino error in an attempt to further deceive.

Conversations were moved to the private, secret forum at Bonuswhores. Yes, there is a secret, hidden forum there where conversations regarding deceptions like this are discussed between a privilaged few. The error was that it was promoted and discussed in general forums before you began your coverups.

Shame on all of you who do nothing but add to Bryan's work load with these bogus claims. Cowardice and unethical is coming here to clutter CM's forum and try to rally the troops. Using this forum for this person makes you all EVIL and I hope that list gets expanded.

You thieves saw the bug, you promoted exploitation of the bug, and now everyone is crying because they were caught.

You got what you deserve.

 

[GOCC]

I note from your post qazwsx you call them "Cowardice and Unethical"

This coming from someone who has joined today to just post this message criticising others. There is a Private forum at Rpoints as well but no one mentions that.


I dont know what the bug was as I only play Microgaming

 

[cardsandmore]

You need to put many players on your EVIL list, Bryan.

Here is the truth. This flaw was recognized and promoted at www.bonuswhores.com

Even the owner of the site has posted in this thread that he is due "5 figures". (Poster Jek187)

Upon the revelation of this error and the ensuing discussions here at CM, Jek187 removed the threads promoting this casino error in an attempt to further deceive.

Conversations were moved to the private, secret forum at Bonuswhores. Yes, there is a secret, hidden forum there where conversations regarding deceptions like this are discussed between a privilaged few. The error was that it was promoted and discussed in general forums before you began your coverups.

Shame on all of you who do nothing but add to Bryan's work load with these bogus claims. Cowardice and unethical is coming here to clutter CM's forum and try to rally the troops. Using this forum for this person makes you all EVIL and I hope that list gets expanded.

You thieves saw the bug, you promoted exploitation of the bug, and now everyone is crying because they were caught.

You got what you deserve.

How is the private forum at BW secret & hidden? I am a lurker there and even I know it exists because it is spelled out in the public forums. Heck they even tell you how to get admitted if you really want in. Sounds to me like a disgruntled ex poster from there since you are only attacking them. I don't really know anyone there since I only lurk but it has really helped me in the past so I don't see how your attacks are warranted.

 

[thelawnet]

You need to put many players on your EVIL list, Bryan.

Here is the truth. This flaw was recognized and promoted at www.bonuswhores.com

Even the owner of the site has posted in this thread that he is due "5 figures". (Poster Jek187)

Upon the revelation of this error and the ensuing discussions here at CM, Jek187 removed the threads promoting this casino error in an attempt to further deceive.

Conversations were moved to the private, secret forum at Bonuswhores. Yes, there is a secret, hidden forum there where conversations regarding deceptions like this are discussed between a privilaged few. The error was that it was promoted and discussed in general forums before you began your coverups.

Shame on all of you who do nothing but add to Bryan's work load with these bogus claims. Cowardice and unethical is coming here to clutter CM's forum and try to rally the troops. Using this forum for this person makes you all EVIL and I hope that list gets expanded.

You thieves saw the bug, you promoted exploitation of the bug, and now everyone is crying because they were caught.

You got what you deserve.

How is playing at an advantage evil? Casinos do it all the time.

The players on the evil players list were involved in fraud, faking screenshots, chargebacks, etc.

From what I can see the only fraud here is Joyland's in deleting records.

Or does sharing this in a group make it wrong? Like the forums that list mispriced Dell PCs. Those guys are evil too?

 

[Vesuvio]

Yes, there is a secret, hidden forum there where conversations regarding deceptions like this are discussed between a privilaged few.

That would be the forum mentioned on the public forum on a thread with a title along the lines of "a public private forum" - not exactly a "secret, hidden forum"

Shame on all of you who do nothing but add to Bryan's work load with these bogus claims. Cowardice and unethical is coming here to clutter CM's forum and try to rally the troops. Using this forum for this person makes you all EVIL and I hope that list gets expanded.

Why on earth does it matter if people have played at a casino because someone else recommended it to them - or after discussing it with others? It doesn't change any of the issues here. Are you saying that if someone recommends a good bonus to me and I play it I'm evil!? Somehow I get the feeling you work for Joyland and decided to try going on the offensive to cover up your own stupidity and fraud.

You thieves saw the bug, you promoted exploitation of the bug, and now everyone is crying because they were caught.

Thieves!? You've got some twisted morals there, qazwsx (gotta love those anonymous forum names ). If seeing a good offer and taking advantage of it makes you a thief I'd love to know which circle of hell you'd consign the casino to for refusing to pay players who played by its rules

p.s. for the record I don't post at the forum in question and have never played at Joyland.

 

[qazwsx]

That would be the forum mentioned on the public forum on a thread with a title along the lines of "a public private forum" - not exactly a "secret, hidden forum"
Why on earth does it matter if people have played at a casino because someone else recommended it to them - or after discussing it with others? It doesn't change any of the issues here. Are you saying that if someone recommends a good bonus to me and I play it I'm evil!? Somehow I get the feeling you work for Joyland and decided to try going on the offensive to cover up your own stupidity and fraud.
Thieves!? You've got some twisted morals there, qazwsx (gotta love those anonymous forum names ). If seeing a good offer and taking advantage of it makes you a thief I'd love to know which circle of hell you'd consign the casino to for refusing to pay players who played by its rules

p.s. for the record I don't post at the forum in question and have never played at Joyland.

The issue in this particular situation is that particular community.

If someone sees a slot machine paying every pull, many would sit and play rather than contact the casino. In this case, they all called their buddies over to play. Then when the error was found, instead of moving on and being happy they got their funds back, they had the nerve to bring it to a regulatory forum and waste precious time of the Webmaster.

They are thieves for pursuing their claims and should all be added to the EVIL list. For the record, I am an active member of that community so the previous poster that mentions my motives a disgruntled, I respond that I posted there as recently as 2 hours ago.

 

[scrollock]

You need to put many players on your EVIL list, Bryan.

Here is the truth. This flaw was recognized and promoted at www.bonuswhores.com

Even the owner of the site has posted in this thread that he is due "5 figures". (Poster Jek187)

Upon the revelation of this error and the ensuing discussions here at CM, Jek187 removed the threads promoting this casino error in an attempt to further deceive.

Conversations were moved to the private, secret forum at Bonuswhores. Yes, there is a secret, hidden forum there where conversations regarding deceptions like this are discussed between a privilaged few. The error was that it was promoted and discussed in general forums before you began your coverups.

Shame on all of you who do nothing but add to Bryan's work load with these bogus claims. Cowardice and unethical is coming here to clutter CM's forum and try to rally the troops. Using this forum for this person makes you all EVIL and I hope that list gets expanded.

You thieves saw the bug, you promoted exploitation of the bug, and now everyone is crying because they were caught.

You got what you deserve.

hey hey well qwascx, i guess this is another member of the well known Rpoints forum members creating a new identity on casinomeister out of spite.

yes their is people who have abused the system, but does that allow the casino to just arbitarily void everyones winnings?

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi all,

Just popping in at 2:30 AM my time to put out a fire before it starts. No portal wars in this thread please. That's the quickest way to derail a thread. If ya'll want to hammer away at each other (in a civilized manner) feel free to start a new thread. Thanks!

 

[cardsandmore]

The issue in this particular situation is that particular community.

If someone sees a slot machine paying every pull, many would sit and play rather than contact the casino. In this case, they all called their buddies over to play. Then when the error was found, instead of moving on and being happy they got their funds back, they had the nerve to bring it to a regulatory forum and waste precious time of the Webmaster.

They are thieves for pursuing their claims and should all be added to the EVIL list. For the record, I am an active member of that community so the previous poster that mentions my motives a disgruntled, I respond that I posted there as recently as 2 hours ago.

then why are you trying to hide your identity with a new name? Because you post doesn't mean you aren't disgruntled. Did you get denied admission to this super secret forum you speak of? Your attacks here seem to be motivated by hatred than the fact the casinos aren't honoring their side of the deal. I could care less about what goes on at BW but I am interested in why you have such a hatred for them.

 

[Casinomeister]

then why are you trying to hide your identity with a new name? Because you post doesn't mean you aren't disgruntled. Did you get denied admission to this super secret forum you speak of? Your attacks here seem to be motivated by hatred than the fact the casinos aren't honoring their side of the deal. I could care less about what goes on at BW but I am interested in why you have such a hatred for them.

Please read my last post - thanks!