Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

[cardsandmore]

Please read my last post - thanks!

Sorry you are right. I think we were posting at the same time.


Back on topic - has anyone been able to get through on the phone of late? I just tried and still got no response.

 

[qazwsx]

Did you bother reading the Casino's reply?

NO INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE SHAFTED ! 99.99% of the people who only got the $500 were advantage players. The other .01% who were naive will get their winnings less the flawed points.

This is being made to look like a big problem, but it honestly only applies to handful of VOCAL thieves who played zero sum games in a quest for the perpetual promo dollars.

 

[JohnGalt]

Did you bother reading the Casino's reply?

NO INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE SHAFTED ! 99.99% of the people who only got the $500 were advantage players. The other .01% who were naive will get their winnings less the flawed points.

This is being made to look like a big problem, but it honestly only applies to handful of VOCAL thieves who played zero sum games in a quest for the perpetual promo dollars.

99.99% means 9,999 out of 10,000. That's obviously not the case here. You say the problem honestly only applies to a handful of vocal thieves, but how could you possibly know? You are clearly being disingenuous and biased for some reason.

And what exactly is a zero sum game?????

There's plenty of blame to go around here, but lets try to be fair and not 100% one-sided about something that obviously involves both parties.

Clearly a lot of completely innocent people got caught up in this problem, far more than 1 in 10,000. And I don't know why you equate "advantage player" with "thief". You post at BW and you're not an advantage player? You must feel very lonely there. I can't see how "advantage player" is a pejorative term.

But nevertheless, many innocent people have not been paid and joyland still has not explained their alteration of the transaction records or how this mistake was made and allowed to continue for a week. These are very serious problems that have not been addressed by the casino at all. Clearly there is far more to this situation than a few vocal "thieves"

 

[scrollock]

99.99% means 9,999 out of 10,000. That's obviously not the case here. You say the problem honestly only applies to a handful of vocal thieves, but how could you possibly know? You are clearly being disingenuous and biased for some reason.

And what exactly is a zero sum game?????

There's plenty of blame to go around here, but lets try to be fair and not 100% one-sided about something that obviously involves both parties.

Clearly a lot of completely innocent people got caught up in this problem, far more than 1 in 10,000. And I don't know why you equate "advantage player" with "thief". You post at BW and you're not an advantage player? You must feel very lonely there. I can't see how "advantage player" is a pejorative term.

But nevertheless, many innocent people have not been paid and joyland still has not explained their alteration of the transaction records or how this mistake was made and allowed to continue for a week. These are very serious problems that have not been addressed by the casino at all. Clearly there is far more to this situation than a few vocal "thieves"

by far the best and most unbiased post in this whole entire thread.

 

[scrollock]

Did you bother reading the Casino's reply?

NO INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE SHAFTED ! 99.99% of the people who only got the $500 were advantage players. The other .01% who were naive will get their winnings less the flawed points.

This is being made to look like a big problem, but it honestly only applies to handful of VOCAL thieves who played zero sum games in a quest for the perpetual promo dollars.

calling casinomeister, no offence that this poster is out of kilter with the rest of us here,as that is the right of every member, however for example John Galt who in no way supports the joyland protesters has even taken exception to his post in that it is suspect.

would a quick IP check do anygood? i mean it would be very revealing it if showed up as st johns wood in antigua.

 

[Annorax]

Hi, I'm having a bit of an identity crisis. I think I'm a Joyland supporter, and I'm irrationally and wrongfully calling hundreds of people thieves. Or maybe I'm a Joyland shill, I don't know. Link Outdated / Removed to do the right thing with me!

Fixed your post. Can we get an IP check on this guy?

 

[jetset]

If q-whatever is a Joyland person it would be evidence of incredible ineptitude or maybe even criminal stupidity to try to mount a defence at Casinomeister in this manner.

Yet the poster does seem to know way more about the casino side of this disgraceful incident than the rest of us, which makes me suspicious.

And this reference to a "bug" in the Playtech software frankly bugs me, because it seems to me that there are strong indications that this was a casino employee error (on the comp points) for which the casino now seeks to transfer the cost to its players. Not a sensible or responsible strategy in my view.

John Galt's post really goes to the heart of this distraction, and the questions he raises remain unanswered by Joyland.

Was this a software fault for which Playtech is answerable, or was it a human error on the casino side?

Why were the transaction logs tampered with (and incidentally, if BW expunged their posts on this issue, it is a little rich for Joyland to be calling them on it in protesting their own innocence - the pot calling the kettle black)

How does q-whatever know who was and who was not penalised by Joyland's actions, or is this just a guess on his or her part?

The casino seemingly screwed up on its comp points over a surprisingly long timespan that could indicate negligence as well as incompetence, yet they are castigating the player community for their own mistakes.

 

[qazwsx]

John Galt who in no way supports the joyland protesters has even taken exception to his post in that it is suspect

ROFL

The same John Galt that spends 23 hours a day posting at bonuswhores? The same John Galt that may not have been involved, but has a dozen friends that are owed five figures?

Yes, he is uninvolved and unbiased </sarcasm>

 

[qazwsx]

If q-whatever is a Joyland person it would be evidence of incredible ineptitude or maybe even criminal stupidity to try to mount a defence at Casinomeister in this manner.

Yet the poster does seem to know way more about the casino side of this disgraceful incident than the rest of us, which makes me suspicious.

And this reference to a "bug" in the Playtech software frankly bugs me, because it seems to me that there are strong indications that this was a casino employee error (on the comp points) for which the casino now seeks to transfer the cost to its players. Not a sensible or responsible strategy in my view.

John Galt's post really goes to the heart of this distraction, and the questions he raises remain unanswered by Joyland.

Was this a software fault for which Playtech is answerable, or was it a human error on the casino side?

Why were the transaction logs tampered with (and incidentally, if BW expunged their posts on this issue, it is a little rich for Joyland to be calling them on it in protesting their own innocence - the pot calling the kettle black)

How does q-whatever know who was and who was not penalised by Joyland's actions, or is this just a guess on his or her part?

The casino seemingly screwed up on its comp points over a surprisingly long timespan that could indicate negligence as well as incompetence, yet they are castigating the player community for their own mistakes.

Promo log entries for Playtech partners are not the responsibility of Playtech. I defy any of these "victims" to present one altered play log regarding actual wagering on games.

Why would the casino alter anything that reads

500-red
500-black
50-zero

This is their proof, not something that would be altered. Regardless, for the record, this site can't alter play logs. Why can't you people see you are being manipulated by greedy people that are BAD for online gaming and future online bonuses?

Correction, the people see it. Only those repeating themselves here are the ones arguing. That's because they are the sour grapes morons who got caught and can't understand why they are thieves to begin with.

 

[jetset]

Once again qazwsx claims a surprisingly detailed level of knowledge about a poster here in his *expose* of John Galt, and then follows it with more insulting comment and detail from the casino perspective.

Come on Q - 'fess up - how close are you to Joyland or Playtech?

And what makes you believe that the player community should pay for Joyland's mistakes?

 

[The Gunslinger]

Promo log entries for Playtech partners are not the responsibility of Playtech. I defy any of these "victims" to present one altered play log regarding actual wagering on games.

Why would the casino alter anything that reads

500-red
500-black
50-zero

This is their proof, not something that would be altered. Regardless, for the record, this site can't alter play logs. Why can't you people see you are being manipulated by greedy people that are BAD for online gaming and future online bonuses?

Correction, the people see it. Only those repeating themselves here are the ones arguing. That's because they are the sour grapes morons who got caught and can't understand why they are thieves to begin with.

Hahahahahaha.

500 Red
500 Black
50 Zero.

First off it's "Green" when refered to in this context, second off that's not a "Zero Sum Bet" as you previously refered to.

However, your tactics are again blatently obvious.

First you come into this thread and make all types of assertion beyond what a player would typically know in your position, then when someone mentions it, you shoot back with comments that plainly seem ignorant. The above mentioned quote, along with your general comment regarding altering of what you now seem to believe are game logs, whilst the whole time everyone has been saying it's the modification of transaction histories, and what is even more rediculous is your asertation of break even betting, which players on this thread (at least 1 in every 10,000 lol) have said they played video poker, one player must've even been playing $5 coins. I've busted out $5,000 balances before playing Video Poker with $5 coins, it's not exactly a break even kinda stratagy.

So my inclination is to say that you are either someone slanted for the casinos who has come on this thread trying to stir the pot, you said more than you should, and is now trying to backpeddel by slipping in inconsistancies and plainly wrong assertations. OR, you could be a player who thinks that posting anonymously is doing more good than hard by trying to misrepresent the casino side of things, which would be a highly misguided view.

Of course there is a possibility you are who you say you are, an affluent member of the BW community, but then why exactly would you be doing what you are doing. My only reason for mentioning that is the train of logic is simple.

If you are not who you say you are (which is highly likely the case,) then you found it nessisary to lie about who you are, so if you found it nessisary to lie about who you are, you are obviously someone who does not want their views tied to their identity.

The only question is ... why?

The Gunslinger

p.s. I saw the irrelivant shot you took at John Galt for being a member of BW. Obviously I've made no attempt to conceal my identity, as niether has he. I have no money whatsoever tied up in Joyland, and my only interest in this thread is to see that this precident doesn't get set that casinos can refuse payment in the event of essentially what turns out to be nothing more than the player winning. Anyway, I'd appreciate you not bringing BW into this regarding me as I do not in anyway represent BW, nor perticularly the same views as it's manager, infact Jek and I have found eachother at odds a couple of times. I just duely find it troublesome that you would launch an attack on John Galt based only on information you were able to ascertain because he's straightforward enough not to conceal himself as you have plainly done. The attack is as rediculous as it comes because you yourself say you're an active member of the community, posting there as recently as two hours ago. Well, perhaps you are, in which case, I'm sure you'll recognize me, so who exactly are you? I think you're a liar, and I believe you are a shill.

 

[qazwsx]

which players on this thread (at least 1 in every 10,000 lol) have said they played video poker

You are trying to portray intelligence, yet you are completely ignorant to the scam, OR are a misleading participant.

These high wagers in a near 50-50 game were made possible by the simple activation of the spin because of the comp dollars generated. Play enough $100, or any value spins, and there will be paytable scores due to expected hits. Hits = more play time, more play time = a money tree.

500 Red
500 Black
50 Zero

Take your grammar naziism elsewhere. You knew what I meant.

As far as the transaction logs, they were not altered in ANY way. They were corrected.

What do they owe You ?!

Smarten up Sally.

 

[qazwsx]

Of course there is a possibility you are who you say you are, an affluent member of the BW community, but then why exactly would you be doing what you are doing. My only reason for mentioning that is the train of logic is simple.

I play sanctioned Poker Bonuses that sites condone, and find them there. Also, i find useful strategy there every now and then.

Pretty insidious stuff, huh ?

I am taking the approach I have because of the deception to THIS community by a small number of thugs, smearing a casino making an innocent mistake makes me sick especially when all innocent players were paid, and the sheer gall that some of you have makes me angry.

 

[Vesuvio]

As far as the transaction logs, they were not altered in ANY way. They were corrected.

Now there's a quote worthy of Joyland

 

[raol]

As far as the transaction logs, they were not altered in ANY way. They were corrected.

Nice way of putting it! How is it "correcting" to delete a requested withdrawal from the log? The proper thing to do if the casino wants to decline it, is to mark it as "declined". Totally unacceptable to remove it from the log.

 

[jetset]

Now there's a quote worthy of Joyland

I agree - one for the classics in online gambling!!!

 

[thelawnet]

It is pointless to respond to your bile, as its convincing nobody. Blah, Blah, the casino clearly stated the comp ratio in the software, but people who played were somehow evil for doing so. yeah whatever. I would suggest that there is no point in responding to any more of this garbage. Lets instead move this on to you, who claim to be interested only in poker, but yet have an intricate knowledge of this situation. You only signed up yesterday, but claim to be concerned about bryan and this forum. You claim that all the innocent players were paid, and you are just here to defend poor joyland. You claim to know what was done to transaction records. You are convincing nobody with this anonymous charade. So come on, forget joy land, let's talk about you.

 

[JohnGalt]

ROFL

The same John Galt that spends 23 hours a day posting at bonuswhores? The same John Galt that may not have been involved, but has a dozen friends that are owed five figures?

Yes, he is uninvolved and unbiased </sarcasm>

I guess all you did is go to BW and check my username to see how many posts I had. Why don't you try READING THE BEGINNING OF THIS THREAD.

While I don't have any animus towards the posters at BW, they are not my "friends", they are just random people on the internet, none of whom I have ever met. My position as stated has been about as pro-casino as it gets, that I felt this was a mistake that players took advantage of and that their comp points should be recalculated to the right amount. However, there is clear evidence of wrongdoind by Joyland that apparently you just want to sweep under the rug. Good strategy, and good luck.

 

[mary]

Anybody try contacting Antigua on this? Modifying the play or transaction logs is probably a violation of their license.

A note of precedence: Cryptologic paid out millions to players who had won when Crypto got hacked.

As the Gunslinger points out, this was a configuration value entered by an employee, not a software glitch or outside attack. The company should be held liable. To do otherwise is to give them a free pass to screw around with the comp point system to entice deposits and rip off players whenever they feel like it. The fact that they have not proactively contacted their losing players in this situation shows that they're happy to take advantage of it to their benefit.

 

[scrollock]

qazwsx, anychance that you are the now unemployed comps manager for joyland? hence your anger & vendetta in this thread, also judging by your example of a risk free bet, you certainly have the same level of mathematical ability.

 

[Aindreas_Daoc]

qazwsx, anychance that you are the now unemployed comps manager for joyland? hence your anger & vendetta in this thread, also judging by your example of a risk free bet, you certainly have the same level of mathematical ability.

Now I'm reading this thread purely for entertainment.

 

[TrixSlice]

Top three quotes of this thread

Top three posts:

Those players, who abused the system, will not receive their withdraws, because they used a breach, instead of letting us know about it.
I am aware of the fact that this should had been traced by us, and it was

This ^ cracks me up. Darn you guys! The ship was going down and no one told the captain! Arg!

As far as the transaction logs, they were not altered in ANY way. They were corrected.

These ^ are the words of a pyscho.

.. also judging by your example of a risk free bet, you certainly have the same level of mathematical ability.

^... so so true. This one just mirrors the crap I talk about how poorly most casino operators.. don't operate.


My transactions weren't altered, probably because I made zero dollars even after the huge amount of comps I earned. Maybe next time, eh QAZWSX?

PS - I just posted this thread and realized it is getting more offtopic then it should be, as CM pointed out.

So is it Empire Poker that bought the whole buliding? Crown, Imperial E-Club, Intercont.? I think someone should give them a call, point this out to them. This is pretty important, as if Joyland continues to lie to thierself, it's going to bring down that whole group. Each and every casino that shares their building even if they are not truly related. That's just how business is: ruthless. But you still gotta pay the customer.

PSS - Also, someone with good standing should also contact Antigua or the legal jurisdiction where Joyland is based. Perhaps we should start compiling any screenshots and saved emails people have in a *case* folder? I've never filed a PAB, so I'm not sure if Bryan accepts screenshots and emails as proof, but it's probably worth compiling.

 

[Casinomeister]

I have just forwarded the PABs that have come in since yesterday (after I opened the PAB back up) to Playtech and Joyland.

So far a total of 16 complaints have been filed via the Pitch a Bitch section totalling in the neighboorhood of around $111,000 in claimed winnings.

 

[scrollock]

Anybody try contacting Antigua on this? Modifying the play or transaction logs is probably a violation of their license.

A note of precedence: Cryptologic paid out millions to players who had won when Crypto got hacked.

As the Gunslinger points out, this was a configuration value entered by an employee, not a software glitch or outside attack. The company should be held liable. To do otherwise is to give them a free pass to screw around with the comp point system to entice deposits and rip off players whenever they feel like it. The fact that they have not proactively contacted their losing players in this situation shows that they're happy to take advantage of it to their benefit.

as someone said this thread is becoming off-topic, rather than concentrating on the problem at hand.

I would have to disagree with you mary, about that the casino should be held liable because it was an employee that had enterted the value. i have worked in the industry before and know that input errors are very common and if every casino/bookmaker was held liable to them all, then each one would be bankrupted at some point.

however what makes this case different, is that the evidence is clear that a "wrong value " wasnt entered, but a value that was decided by management, which was then entered correctly by the input operator. it was not a case of an input operator being handed a figure to input into the system, who then consequently entered a different figure.

the evidence for this, is that they changed the figure from a 100 to a $, to 150 to a $, if the original figure was input so grossly wrong in the first place, then why the small change in its value, when it was corrected? and even after it was corrected, it was still possible make money by using optimimal play, i find it highly unlikely that a casino would make the same highly expensive mistake twice.

it is quite clear what has happened,a very incompetent promo manager took the decision to set the comps value at 100 to a $, they then seen that were losing money, so then thought "lets change it 150", they were then still losing money, eventually at some point they have managed to call in some body who can count, who has then pointed out what the problem is.

even if the first figure was a mistake, the second figure wasnt, as a decision was taken to change it to that, but as that was so close to the first i can only conclude the first figure was what was intended.

if it was a computer glitch or an input operator typo, then i would have to take the stance of john galt, however as the evidence is contary to this, then i will have to take the opposing view, in that everyone should be paid.

 

[Jay]

As far as the transaction logs, they were not altered in ANY way. They were corrected.

Says the casino employee, pretending to be a third party. You seem to know a lot about it.

In my case, I requested a fairly large withdrawal. I got an email confirmation of the withdrawal request, with a transaction number. It was declined without comment by the casino, and the money disappeared. Emails to the casino went unanswered, and they didn't answer their phone. The online transaction logs were changed to remove my large withdrawal altogether, though two smaller withdrawals were "declined" also, but remained there. Of course, I have the EMAILED transaction numbers...

I'm so glad they "corrected" the logs by removing the declined transaction. That was very confusing before they "corrected" them to remove evidence of their actions.

And Playtech's "72 hour response" to my complaint is now 2 days overdue.

Anyway, now I see that Joyland has responded HERE, first with some BS about how everyone is satisfied, and then after that lie didn't stick, with a long explanation (three weeks after the fact) about what happened and why they confiscated all the funds, and now something about how they'll reconsider if people re-complain about it?

They have my email. They have my phone number. If they're so freaking honest and above-board, why weren't any of those explanations emailed to ME? Surely they knew what they were doing right around the time they blocked my cashouts and stole my money.

They post good intentions in public, but make no effort to actually inform their customers personally about why they did what they did. Why should I have to re-submit a complaint? Did they purge my original complaint from the system along with the logs, so that they could make the claim that everyone involved was satisfied? Is there ANYTHING honest about this casino? Is Playtech itself now condoning rogue licensees, who can have second thoughts about their promotions after the fact?

Just asking.