- Joined
- Apr 4, 2005
- Location
- UK
The Gunslinger said:
No it's not right. They don't have the Kahnawake logo on their site.
Joyland Gaming was an Antiguan licensee, then Kahnawake, but is now owned by Crown Solutions, licensed in Antigua.
Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request
- Thread starter Josyck
- Start date
No it's not right. They don't have the Kahnawake logo on their site.
Joyland Gaming was an Antiguan licensee, then Kahnawake, but is now owned by Crown Solutions, licensed in Antigua.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2005
- Location
- boro, uk
so it looks like the situation has finally closed without resolution in favour of the players but the deserved rouging of joyland.
i think those that played at joyland purely for the comp points and have recieved their deposits back should take the attitude of nothing ventured, nothing gained, ce se ra.
however my sympathy does goto those who either lost deposits or made big wins which have not been honoured, for it is through either of these 2 situations that joyland have made a profit from this whole episode.
plus also it must not be forgotten that there was extra deposits ellicited by joyland, which were subsequently lost by those who tried to take advantage of the comp points but lost and also those of players who played well beyond the WR for the sign up in pursuit of the comp points.
as joyland has kept deposits without honouring large wins, i believe joyland has been rightly rouged as they have turned this whole fiasco into a money spinning episode themselves.
maybe joyland can redeem themselves slightly if they are willing to donate the money they have made from this to the hurricane katrina appeal and CM responds by moving joyland to either the "not recommended" or "past issues" list as i believe joyland should not be allowed to profit from this whole episode as it will set dangerous precedent which i'm sure some casinos will be tempted to pursue themselves.
myself have not been affected through this debacle due to the fact i would not engage in any business with any playtech till they clean up their questionable business practices.
the things i find questionable are,
the choice of juristicition, choice of software, long reversible pending payment times which defeats the whole point of playing on the internet in the first place although we know this is done in the hope that you are weak willed and will lose your money back to them.
then we come to the payout itself, simple fact is that i rarely get ID and next time i am asked for it i will have to scan my documents again as they hopelessly out of date, yet these casinos will ALWAYS ask for ID in the vain hope that they might be able to refuse your cashout. this suggests to me that they are bad losers and given the opportunity would decline a cashout if problem occured without judging your case with reasonable fairness.
also we have the payout tricks, such as sending an email giving you the impression that your payout has been approved, yet when checking your neteller or whatever you find you havnt been paid. when the casino is then pressed on why you havnt been paid, they claim an email asking for ID was sent and you have failed to send in the ID. this is email is never sent by them!
we now have the whole process of sending in your ID where you are further stalled with a succession of excuses, such as we havnt recived it, you sent it to the wrong address, you need to rescan it as its not clear, the file is to large for them to recieve it (you then compress the file, which then allows them to go back to the scan isn't clear excuse).
eventually after a succession of phonecalls, emails and period of time they realise you are not going to forget or give up on your cashout they then begrudgingly give you your money.
although these casinos do keep to the their rules and will honour all cashouts (except this joyland case), the fact is they are run by crooks this should be self evident just from the choice of software and jurisdiction.
i think empire online should be asking themselves do they really want to be doing business with this group, afterall if they are willing to welch on a $1000 payout then what are the chances of them acting honourably in a deal worth $40 million ?
especially in light of the player stealing tactics they have employed which i have highlighted above, the possible massaging of their casino turnover figures through this joyland situation and the undeniable fact that are they are willing to change history (i.e. the deletion of transaction logs), so what are the odds of crown solutions handing over an honest set of books to allow empire online make an informed decision on wether to buy this set of casinos or not? it should be noted that all of this happened in the week after the 1st aug, i.e. when the deal was annouced, just another coincidence ?
i would like to let those who it concerns know, that if this deal is completed and the deal with sportingbet is then completed then i will be looking elsewhere to be placing my sportsbook wagers (i dont use the casino there). i do about 80% of my sportsbook betting with SB and the amout i gamble on sports makes what i spend on online casinos pale in to significance, but the simple fact is that the size of my sportswagers means that i need to conduct business with those who i can trust and i cannot trust those who are willing to have any involvement with this set up of casinos.
i think those that played at joyland purely for the comp points and have recieved their deposits back should take the attitude of nothing ventured, nothing gained, ce se ra.
however my sympathy does goto those who either lost deposits or made big wins which have not been honoured, for it is through either of these 2 situations that joyland have made a profit from this whole episode.
plus also it must not be forgotten that there was extra deposits ellicited by joyland, which were subsequently lost by those who tried to take advantage of the comp points but lost and also those of players who played well beyond the WR for the sign up in pursuit of the comp points.
as joyland has kept deposits without honouring large wins, i believe joyland has been rightly rouged as they have turned this whole fiasco into a money spinning episode themselves.
maybe joyland can redeem themselves slightly if they are willing to donate the money they have made from this to the hurricane katrina appeal and CM responds by moving joyland to either the "not recommended" or "past issues" list as i believe joyland should not be allowed to profit from this whole episode as it will set dangerous precedent which i'm sure some casinos will be tempted to pursue themselves.
myself have not been affected through this debacle due to the fact i would not engage in any business with any playtech till they clean up their questionable business practices.
the things i find questionable are,
the choice of juristicition, choice of software, long reversible pending payment times which defeats the whole point of playing on the internet in the first place although we know this is done in the hope that you are weak willed and will lose your money back to them.
then we come to the payout itself, simple fact is that i rarely get ID and next time i am asked for it i will have to scan my documents again as they hopelessly out of date, yet these casinos will ALWAYS ask for ID in the vain hope that they might be able to refuse your cashout. this suggests to me that they are bad losers and given the opportunity would decline a cashout if problem occured without judging your case with reasonable fairness.
also we have the payout tricks, such as sending an email giving you the impression that your payout has been approved, yet when checking your neteller or whatever you find you havnt been paid. when the casino is then pressed on why you havnt been paid, they claim an email asking for ID was sent and you have failed to send in the ID. this is email is never sent by them!
we now have the whole process of sending in your ID where you are further stalled with a succession of excuses, such as we havnt recived it, you sent it to the wrong address, you need to rescan it as its not clear, the file is to large for them to recieve it (you then compress the file, which then allows them to go back to the scan isn't clear excuse).
eventually after a succession of phonecalls, emails and period of time they realise you are not going to forget or give up on your cashout they then begrudgingly give you your money.
although these casinos do keep to the their rules and will honour all cashouts (except this joyland case), the fact is they are run by crooks this should be self evident just from the choice of software and jurisdiction.
i think empire online should be asking themselves do they really want to be doing business with this group, afterall if they are willing to welch on a $1000 payout then what are the chances of them acting honourably in a deal worth $40 million ?
especially in light of the player stealing tactics they have employed which i have highlighted above, the possible massaging of their casino turnover figures through this joyland situation and the undeniable fact that are they are willing to change history (i.e. the deletion of transaction logs), so what are the odds of crown solutions handing over an honest set of books to allow empire online make an informed decision on wether to buy this set of casinos or not? it should be noted that all of this happened in the week after the 1st aug, i.e. when the deal was annouced, just another coincidence ?
i would like to let those who it concerns know, that if this deal is completed and the deal with sportingbet is then completed then i will be looking elsewhere to be placing my sportsbook wagers (i dont use the casino there). i do about 80% of my sportsbook betting with SB and the amout i gamble on sports makes what i spend on online casinos pale in to significance, but the simple fact is that the size of my sportswagers means that i need to conduct business with those who i can trust and i cannot trust those who are willing to have any involvement with this set up of casinos.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
I think they were up front with me and didn't give me a line of BS, we just have some differing opinions. Further, I was mostly critical about the way it was handled before I was involved.ElDuderino said:
The licensing info was merely the info they have listed on their website.
I'm not holding my breath, but if those companies involved in this dispute were smart they will have taken away the following from this dispute:
Joyland: Get some professional staff who know how to construct comp point, loyalty and promotions initiatives in a fair and competent manner - something that is patently and sadly lacking at present. Same thing applies to your communications with the customer which have been appalling in this issue. Integrity is something that you don't usually have to learn, so the shortcomings so evident in that department can only be redressed with new management imo.
Playtech: If you're going to introduce a genuine disputes channel for god's sake staff it with someone who knows what they're doing and is committed to it...and make sure the contact side actually works instead of being a dead line for days and even weeks. The idea is to mediate between the casino and the player - not act like a traffic cop and wave the customer back to the casino that has just rejected his or her complaint. Judging by the attitude and actions of Joyland management, there's a serious need for some licensor policing and discipline here too - you can't just sit on your hands and tell the player you agree with them but there's nothing you can do.
Jurisdictional authorities (Antigua?): You guys should be monitoring major boards like this one so you're ahead of the game. And you need to realise that you lose credibility if you do not take an active role in ensuring that the casinos licensed in your jurisdiction behave in an honest and efficient manner. And there needs to be more transparency and clarity in who owns what on your publicly open books.
Players: It looks like this is one that has to be reluctantly written down to bitter experience because this management is not going to do the right and expected thing, and it seems unlikely that either their provider or jurisdiction is interested in taking a stand either. Players have long memories, especially for rogues. They will be remembered.
Joyland: Get some professional staff who know how to construct comp point, loyalty and promotions initiatives in a fair and competent manner - something that is patently and sadly lacking at present. Same thing applies to your communications with the customer which have been appalling in this issue. Integrity is something that you don't usually have to learn, so the shortcomings so evident in that department can only be redressed with new management imo.
Playtech: If you're going to introduce a genuine disputes channel for god's sake staff it with someone who knows what they're doing and is committed to it...and make sure the contact side actually works instead of being a dead line for days and even weeks. The idea is to mediate between the casino and the player - not act like a traffic cop and wave the customer back to the casino that has just rejected his or her complaint. Judging by the attitude and actions of Joyland management, there's a serious need for some licensor policing and discipline here too - you can't just sit on your hands and tell the player you agree with them but there's nothing you can do.
Jurisdictional authorities (Antigua?): You guys should be monitoring major boards like this one so you're ahead of the game. And you need to realise that you lose credibility if you do not take an active role in ensuring that the casinos licensed in your jurisdiction behave in an honest and efficient manner. And there needs to be more transparency and clarity in who owns what on your publicly open books.
Players: It looks like this is one that has to be reluctantly written down to bitter experience because this management is not going to do the right and expected thing, and it seems unlikely that either their provider or jurisdiction is interested in taking a stand either. Players have long memories, especially for rogues. They will be remembered.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Location
- Mass
scrollock said:
That would be a great precedent. You can steal my money, but as long as you claim to donate it to charity, you're off the hook. If I want my money to go to charity, I'LL choose the charity and I'LL donate it.
Playtech responded to my third email asking why they hadn't contacted me yet. They said Joyland was dealing with it and I'd be contacted by them within 24 hours. Any guesses whether or not that happened?
Playtech should be "not recommended" for having a fake complaints line.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
jetset said:
Excellent post Jetset. Believe me, this will be brought up in Vegas since I am scheduled to meet with several key people next week.
And here is my "two cents".
For operators:
Do not lie or skirt the truth:. You will be caught out and busted. Never forget that reputation is everything. The ball is in your court 95% of the time, it's up to you on how you want to deal with this.
If you make a mistake in public - admit it in public. If you want to BS your way out of a bad situation, you should be willing to suffer the consequences; this industry revolves around truthfulness and fairness. And not all of your players are post-teen college students playing with daddy's money who are meant to be jerked around. Some of the players here are University professors, Artisans, Engineers, and successful businessmen and women - and they are watching you.
Admitting one's mistakes is an honorable thing, and I tried to explain this. But perhaps there are cultural differences or other reasons that prevented the casino to see the logic behind this.
It's going to take a lot of effort on Playtech's part to move on. They have lost a lot of face with the players with this casino episode.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Oh, and I almost forgot.
Players:
If you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt. If you intend to hammer the hell out of a casino, watch who you are dealing with.
Players:
If you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt. If you intend to hammer the hell out of a casino, watch who you are dealing with.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2005
- Location
- UK
casinomeister said:
I see that, quite interesting
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Joyland is NOT listed on
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which clearly states that it lists ALL licensed casinos.
Interestingly from the Kahnawake regulations
This is not the case.
They are not a Kahnawake casino.
I am not sure why they have this there
According to archive.org, from June 2004
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states
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(old page)So Joyland Gaming moved from Antigua to Canada.
They were then bought by Crown Solutions, who hold an Antiguan Gaming licence. Outdated URL (Invalid) - which states that their site is 'clubdicecasino.com'
I am not sure why their website was not updated to reflect the licensing of their new owners.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2005
- Location
- UK
jetset said:
Considering that Antigua doesn't even appear to answer player enquiries (did anyone get a response), it demonstrates what a joke their claims are.
They are a tiny island of 108 square miles and gaming is very important to them. They have been paying high-powered lawyers to engage with the WTO in their fight against USA.
So why then are they demonstrating that they are no better than Costa Rica, and providing US gambling opponents with ammunition they need to attack online gambling.
Short sighted, very poor.
- Joined
- May 10, 2005
- Location
- Los Angeles
Jay said:
Agreed. Playtech software really should be put into "not recommended." And any casino related to Joyland should be rogued.
I've played at several playtech casinos and put up with all their BS antics because often times they offered generous offers and for the most part had a reputation for fair payment. After this incident, I won't be playing at playtechs anymore. I urge everyone else to avoid playtech casinos, even those of us(like myself) who get enticed by bonuses. What good is a generous sign up offer if the casino just plans to seize any winnings and the software provider dismisses your complaints?
Playtech had a bad reputation before the Joyland incident. Looks like they've hit rock bottom. I do hope more prospective online players are informed about Playtech before they give them business. Ideally, we need a thread like this to be one of the top hits when someone googles "playtech." As Gunslinger pointed out earlier, it is already a top hit when searching "joyland casino." I'm not sure how isolated this incident will be or if it will get the publicity that it needs.
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2004
- Location
- Yorba Linda, Home of Nixon
Dispute Resolved
I have resolved this dispute with Joyland Casino to my satisfaction and I'm happy to continue playing on Joyland Casino.
I have resolved this dispute with Joyland Casino to my satisfaction and I'm happy to continue playing on Joyland Casino.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Location
- Mass
... Unfortunately, since that time they've gone on the "Evil Casinos" list here, so I've now changed my mind based solely on this new infoJohnny Empire said:
Just curious whether the people who are obviously being required to say that they're "happy to continue playing on Joyland Casino" have actually gone back and continued playing.
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2004
- Location
- London, England
Jay said:
My guess would be no way in a million years!!. Always brings a smile to my face when I read those posts
GrandMaster
Dormant account
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2004
- Location
- UK
casinomeister said:
I would add one more thing: refunding the winners' deposits and keeping the losers' money is theft and is unacceptable.
Jay said:... Unfortunately, since that time they've gone on the "Evil Casinos" list here, so I've now changed my mind based solely on this new info
Just curious whether the people who are obviously being required to say that they're "happy to continue playing on Joyland Casino" have actually gone back and continued playing.
There was somebody who was forced to publish an even more grovelling apology by Connect To Casino in order to get paid.
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Nowhere
Here's my plan:
1) See if Bryan learns anything from Joyland/Crown at the CAC in Vegas this weekend.
2) Correspond one more time with Joyland/Playtech and see if I can get a reasonable settlement.
3) Unleash the fury to Empire, and let them know what kind of operation they're buying. I generate $100,000 of rake a year at Empire. If they buy Joyland and operate it, I will go to another Party skin.
1) See if Bryan learns anything from Joyland/Crown at the CAC in Vegas this weekend.
2) Correspond one more time with Joyland/Playtech and see if I can get a reasonable settlement.
3) Unleash the fury to Empire, and let them know what kind of operation they're buying. I generate $100,000 of rake a year at Empire. If they buy Joyland and operate it, I will go to another Party skin.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Location
- USA
hapaboii said:
I really agree with the above. If the oversight isn't there, then trust is already partly gone. How can players really be expected to trust a no name with no oversight?
Playtech really should step in and make things right. No way paying late is ok, and this is not paying at all.
Poker sites pays winnings in like 2 hours, and a lot of these casinos take weeks. That is bs, too.
USCBlackjack
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Nowhere
uscblackjack said:
I agree. There is empirical evidence (physical address, e-mail sent from Club Dice accidentally) that JOyland is related to the others... they should all be rogued. If not, then why was I bonus banned at Monaco Gold?
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2005
- Location
- Mid-World
ElDuderino said:
I tend to agree too. I think it's important to send a hard line message to casinos who work themselves into this situation. Of course this kind of decision is all up to the meister, and perhaps he has a good reason for not roguing the whole group. Who know, I'd be interested to hear it though.
The Gunslinger
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Nowhere
Joyland, Enron, same thing:
A city boy, Kenny, moved to the country and bought a donkey from an old farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day. The next day the farmer drove up and said, "Sorry son, but I have some bad news, the donkey died."
Kenny replied, "Well then, just give me my money back."
The farmer said, "Can't do that. I went and spent it already."
Kenny said, "OK then, just unload the donkey."
The farmer asked, "What ya gonna do with him?"
Kenny: "I'm going to raffle him off."
Farmer: "You can't raffle off a dead donkey!"
Kenny: "Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he is dead."
A month later the farmer met up with Kenny and asked, "What happened with that dead donkey?"
Kenny replied, "I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a piece and made a profit of $898.00."
Farmer: "Didn't anyone complain?"
Kenny: "Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."
Kenny grew up and eventually became the chairman of Enron...
A city boy, Kenny, moved to the country and bought a donkey from an old farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day. The next day the farmer drove up and said, "Sorry son, but I have some bad news, the donkey died."
Kenny replied, "Well then, just give me my money back."
The farmer said, "Can't do that. I went and spent it already."
Kenny said, "OK then, just unload the donkey."
The farmer asked, "What ya gonna do with him?"
Kenny: "I'm going to raffle him off."
Farmer: "You can't raffle off a dead donkey!"
Kenny: "Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anybody he is dead."
A month later the farmer met up with Kenny and asked, "What happened with that dead donkey?"
Kenny replied, "I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a piece and made a profit of $898.00."
Farmer: "Didn't anyone complain?"
Kenny: "Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."
Kenny grew up and eventually became the chairman of Enron...
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Nowhere
Has anyone got a SATISFACTORY settlement from these guys, or are they only offering the $500 they originally offered? I'm in touch with them and giving them one more chance before I let Empire Online know what they're getting into by acquiring Crown Solutions...
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2005
- Location
- massachusetts
ElDuderino said:
i got all my winnings minus comps
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Nowhere
Hmm... you still should be entitled to *some* comps, no? Did they decide their rate was too much and they should give everyone zero comps? Oh well, if they don't take the initiative and bargain with me soon, I'm spilling this whole damn thing to every ear at the iPoker network and Empire that I can find. I will also discourage my high MGR friends from playing at Empire. Hell, I generated $800 in rake each of the last two days, I'll just take it back to Eurobet. Hahaha.
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2005
- Location
- AZ
I still haven't gotten an offer,
or any response at all since they
emptied my account.
or any response at all since they
emptied my account.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Location
- Mass
No reply of any kind from Joyland, and no reply from Playtech's fake complaint resolution system (other than a week ago saying that they'd referred the problem once again (with apologies) to Joyland's management, and Joyland would be responding within 24 hours.. Great system.. When you have a problem with casino management, they just forward the issue back to the crooks to "resolve", and then ignore the whole thing).
With all due respect, I don't understand why in most cases, the "evil casinos" list includes the siblings of casinos that rip people off, but here, where a huge number of people have been ripped off, the group gets a free ride -- according to Joyland's own website, they're owned by the same folks as Carnival and ClubDice and USA. And Playtech's resolution system is obviously a sham... they're up to three rogue licensees and counting...
With all due respect, I don't understand why in most cases, the "evil casinos" list includes the siblings of casinos that rip people off, but here, where a huge number of people have been ripped off, the group gets a free ride -- according to Joyland's own website, they're owned by the same folks as Carnival and ClubDice and USA. And Playtech's resolution system is obviously a sham... they're up to three rogue licensees and counting...
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2005
- Location
- iugljk
I'm pissed that we still have no explanation at all from the casino or anyone. I still don't know what relationship this casino has with the others in the group, let alone what happened and why they altered transaction logs. In my opinion this is just about the worst thing any casino has ever done because it has never offered any explanation of what happened, what its motivations were, etc. No attempt was ever made to enter into a dialogue. Apparently they care about their players so little that they won't even speak to some of them AT ALL. Even total scumbag rogue casinos sometimes reply to email.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2005
- Location
- boro, uk
i vowed to myself not to post on this thread after my last post, but it looks like there is more financial irregularities going on a crown solutions which are possibly connected with them "cooking" the books for their deal with empire.
too long to explain, but it can be found in the other forum
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/search
too long to explain, but it can be found in the other forum
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/search
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2005
- Location
- Mid-World
I think Joyland should, in good faith, send out T-Shirts that say
The Gunslinger
I played at Joyland Casino for the Favorable Comp Rate
and all I got was this stupid T-Shirt
and all I got was this stupid T-Shirt
The Gunslinger
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Nowhere
caruso said:
I sent them a quite cordial e-mail, and was pleasantly surprised to get a response saying they'd look into my situation. My voicemail is really backed up, but I think they may have called (repeatedly). I will report back when I hear from them via e-mail or phone.
I don't think they realize the effect that the people they stiffed could have on their future business. Heck, maybe they do, I certainly do so. I don't want to alert Empire Online to their actions; I just want my money. Will keep you guys updated.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Location
- Mass
I sent them another email two days ago, and once again got a cordial "we're sorry for the inconvenience, and we'll get back to you within 24 hours" sort of thing.
Still waiting, of course.
Don't know if the Duderino is having more luck.
Still waiting, of course.
Don't know if the Duderino is having more luck.
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Nowhere
*bump*
Wanted to see what course of action all the people who got screwed by Nojoyland are pursuing.
Wanted to see what course of action all the people who got screwed by Nojoyland are pursuing.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
After my brief hiatus, I'm getting back on this today.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
In Vegas, I was assured by Playetech that all issues will be resolved. I'm just beginning to unpack, so give me a day or so to get both feet planted down....[/QUOTE]Jay said:
The write up wasn't published as I left. It should be up within a day or two.Jay said:
pokeraddict
Webmaster
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Location
- Las Vegas
caruso said:
You are damn right. I was discussing this possibility in Las Vegas with someone owed money and surprise surprise Playtech announces going public soon after. This would make that very difficult to get a good price and backers.
Empire needs to know what is going on here before they step in something they cant ever clean their hands of.
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2005
- Location
- SPAIN
Finally...
I have resolved this dispute with Joyland Casino to my satisfaction and I am happy to continue playing on Joyland Casino.
Thank you very much Casinomeister and users
I have resolved this dispute with Joyland Casino to my satisfaction and I am happy to continue playing on Joyland Casino.
Thank you very much Casinomeister and users
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
You're welcome. One question though, are you really happy?Josyck said:
Actually, you don't need to answer this. I wouldn't want you to forfeit anything. Cheers!
ROTFLMAO!Josyck said:
Just to set the record straight here: clearly, as part of Josyck's payment agreement he was required by the casino to make this statement. If I had to put money on it, I'd say there's a reasonable possibility he might not be playing at Joyland again in the near future.
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Nowhere
casinomeister said:You're welcome. One question though, are you really happy?
Actually, you don't need to answer this. I wouldn't want you to forfeit anything. Cheers!
Haha, Joyland has some people by the balls, unless Josyck was being tongue in cheek. I have no doubt the people who (fair and square) did well at this casino and haven't received a 'settlement' still have a lot more fight in them than Joyland might guess.
Personally, I won't be taking an unfair settlement and let Joyland dictate my language/thought process with b.s. statements like "I am happy and will continue playing at Joyland blah blah blah." I'm not trying to demean those who have settled... I am disappointed that people have posted the "I'm happy" statement to appease such a crooked company.
Dude
P.S. Can't wait for Bryan's piece on the whole Crown family and how this fiasco will affect the Playtech IPO/Empire Online buyout situation...
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Location
- Mass
I heard back from Joyland finally.
Because my play included not only high-stakes blackjack and video poker, but also high-stakes roulette (even though I was spending five minutes at a time making cool patterns on the roulette board and at points winning and losing many hundreds of dollars per spin, and not playing "red and black" or whatever), I get zippo. My response to their short statement received no reply, so they've obviously made the determination not to pay me, period.
I found it interesting that their reply made reference to "the forum", as if obviously all my questions about the stolen money should have been answered here (or a different forum?), and why on earth would I expect a personal reply in under six weeks?
As far as I'm concerned, even if I was betting the same amount on red and black and sitting there spinning the damned wheel, that's valid casino play. They certainly wouldn't be refunding my money if their comp points had been set lower -- they would've made me a VIP and sent gifts to my house. Therefore keeping ANYONE'S money is dishonest here. If I was playing on a signup bonus, fine, there are often rules about restricted games. But I wasn't. I was playing my own money.
And I've never seen a single word justifying, or even admitting, the crude and obvious doctoring of transaction logs (which I wouldn't be surprised had to be done on Playtech's end). As if I'd forget cashing out a sizeable win, especially when I have email confirmations with transaction numbers.
Forget "advantage play" and "software errors" and all that. Playtech has a casino that altered transaction records. Their response, twice, to my complaints was "we've forwarded your information to Joyland management and you'll hear back from them." It's disgusting.
I really don't expect to see any money from them now, nor do I think that Playtech, with its ever-growing stable of rogue casinos and blind acceptance of a casino group that cancels withdrawals and alters withdrawal records for its users, will do a thing about it. I'd love to be proved wrong.
Because my play included not only high-stakes blackjack and video poker, but also high-stakes roulette (even though I was spending five minutes at a time making cool patterns on the roulette board and at points winning and losing many hundreds of dollars per spin, and not playing "red and black" or whatever), I get zippo. My response to their short statement received no reply, so they've obviously made the determination not to pay me, period.
I found it interesting that their reply made reference to "the forum", as if obviously all my questions about the stolen money should have been answered here (or a different forum?), and why on earth would I expect a personal reply in under six weeks?
As far as I'm concerned, even if I was betting the same amount on red and black and sitting there spinning the damned wheel, that's valid casino play. They certainly wouldn't be refunding my money if their comp points had been set lower -- they would've made me a VIP and sent gifts to my house. Therefore keeping ANYONE'S money is dishonest here. If I was playing on a signup bonus, fine, there are often rules about restricted games. But I wasn't. I was playing my own money.
And I've never seen a single word justifying, or even admitting, the crude and obvious doctoring of transaction logs (which I wouldn't be surprised had to be done on Playtech's end). As if I'd forget cashing out a sizeable win, especially when I have email confirmations with transaction numbers.
Forget "advantage play" and "software errors" and all that. Playtech has a casino that altered transaction records. Their response, twice, to my complaints was "we've forwarded your information to Joyland management and you'll hear back from them." It's disgusting.
I really don't expect to see any money from them now, nor do I think that Playtech, with its ever-growing stable of rogue casinos and blind acceptance of a casino group that cancels withdrawals and alters withdrawal records for its users, will do a thing about it. I'd love to be proved wrong.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Location
- Arizona
casinomeister said:
Good to hear. Will this even include the unpaid players at African Palace/Indio?
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2005
- Location
- USA
I doubt even Bryan can squeeze water from a rock.sdaddy said:
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Location
- Arizona
That's likely true. Okay, I probably read more into that Bryan's statement, which probably just referred to this case. Neverthess, if Playtech truly wants to make things right, then they ought to address the issues with African Palace as well. Sorry to take this off-topic.Bruce Hamilton said:I doubt even Bryan can squeeze water from a rock.
Anyone owed anything by Playtech should get onto the Powers That Be in the proposed float on the London stock exchange.sdaddy said:
I reckon this is a God-sent opportunity to clear all outstanding player debts at Playtech.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
It pretty much means that if anyone is owed any money legitimately, they will be paid. I haven't had the time to do many individual follow ups at the moment; I suspect that there is activity in the background that is taking care of each player issue.sdaddy said:
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2005
- Location
- massachusetts
casinomeister said:
does this mean comp $ will be payed to players who have already accepted a settlement of winnings-comps?
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2005
- Location
- USA
If someone filed a lawsuit against you and you made a settlement offer that was accepted, would you want them refiling if you hit megabucks? Poor analogy I know, but the end result is the same.jon593 said:
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2005
- Location
- massachusetts
Bruce Hamilton said:
i know but i just figured i would get that clarified
I would stake a lot of money on that being a "no".jon593 said:
In the first place, an accepted settlement is just that: accepted.
In the second, they seem to have made their stance on that comps issue crystal clear anyway.
Shooting for those 4% comps was just...nuts. Sorry, can't put it any other way. Like playing Russian Roulette with all six cylinders loaded.
