JoReels refusing payout

[Chipkin9]

Hi,

I'm going to PAB about this if I can't get it resolved directly but I just wanted to make people aware that JoReels are refusing to payout over disputed Photo ID.

If you are like me and do not own a Passport or Drivers License then they will flat out reject any other Photo ID and refuse to pay your winnings.

Here are the documents I submitted for verification:

National Identity Electoral Card
Birth Certificate
Bank Statement
Bank Card

In my opinion this is more than sufficient enough documentation for the KYC process, but here we have a casino insisting that unless you drive a fancy car or take flash holidays then you shouldn't gamble and you're winnings will not be paid. This despite having other photo ID.

This isn't the first time a MT Secure operated site has made life difficult with documents and in my opinion they are a very poor. They will pull every trick in the book to stall paying you, but this is the first time I have been outright rejected to my rightful winnings.

I don't want to make this opening post too long so I will post the Live Chat transcript in a reply.

So to anyone considering depositing here without a Passport or Drivers License, just don't.

 

[Chipkin9]

Lars: Hello Paddy. Thank you for contacting JoReels support!

Hi, How an I assist you?

Paddy: Hi,

I Emailed support to kindly request to have my withdrawal processed.

She Emailed back stating I had been contacted to resend my documents (Which is a lie), this was the first time I heard mention of it.

Anyway, I resubmitted my documents explaining that my ID is Government issued and a valid form of photo ID under the UKGC.

Please see here.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

6.57

I don't Travel and I don't Drive so I don't have a Passport, nor a Drver's License.

In the Email she stated

"After we have received these copies from your ID (such as passport or a identity card)"

Please not how she asks for an Identity card which is exactly what I sent Joreels.

Email support has since been unresponsive.

What is going on here? Other casino's usually respond an verify the account wthin the hour.

My account is fully verified with Rizk, Ikibu, Casinopop, Thrills, Superlenny etc... which are all MT Secure operated.

Why the deliberate delay tactics?

Will you please assist with this and verify my account and process my withdrawal.

Thanks.

Lars: Can you please confirm your date of birth and home address for me, so I can take a closer look on your account.

Paddy: ********

Lars: Even your account might be fully verified on another brand under the same casino network, you still need to provide documents for all casino sites on the same network. We are only missing ID-card from you, and we need either a driving license or a passport.

Paddy: You are not missing it

I sent a National Identity card

Why does it have to be a Passport or Drivers License specifcally?

Not everyone travels or drives.

Photo ID is Photo ID

Okay.

How was my 1st deposit made?

My Debit card?

Lars: The card you provided is unfortunate non-compliant and can not be accepted as a valid ID-card, as per information from our security department. As I understand, this card is mainly used to prove your identity when voting. However, you have only done Paysafe card deposit with us here at Joreels.

Paddy:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

6.57

Have you read this?

Which states:

"•current identity card issued by the Electoral Office for Northern Ireland"

So under the UKGC the card I provided is a valid form of Photo ID is it not?

Tell me. What is the issue with the card?

It proves who I am and my date of Birth.

I also provided my Birth Certificate.

What more do you require?

Why does a gambler need to own a car and go on holidays to be able to gamble and receive his winnings?

Just listen to how ridiculous that sounds.

Proof has been provided.

I am not able to provide you with a Passport or Drivers License.

So now what do you propose?

Am I just not going to have my winnings paid now?

Lars: One moment please and I will be right back with you.

Paddy: Sure.

Lars: I have checked this up and unfortunate we do need some ID-card that can prove your identity. The card you provided to us, are unfortunately not a valid ID-card. As per our gambling commission, we are required to ask about this. More information here.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Why ID verification is important

Paddy: You know who I am, I have supplied sufficient documentation.

So are Joreels refusing to payout?

My Birth Certificate shows I am old enough to gamble as does the legitimate Photographic ID.

Lars: We are unable to pay out your winnings before we can get a valid ID-card. Your electoral card and birth certificate are unfortunate not a valid ID-document.

Paddy: Bullshit.

I can not provide you with a Passport or Drivers License.

You have valid photo ID.

 

[geordiecolin]

Good luck mate. Do they have a rep here,or a rep from a sister site who could assist you?

 

[Chipkin9]

Good luck mate. Do they have a rep here,or a rep from a sister site who could assist you?

No Rep unfortunately.

I did PM Rafelito from Ikibu as I know sometimes a Rep works for the Group, however unfortunately he has no affiliation with JoReels, but did say he knows the guys behind JR and would contact them, which I am grateful for.

It's just a waiting game now, to see if they Email me or not

 

[vinylweatherman]

It's more of a valid ID card than a driving license, and indeed a passport. It is, after all, an actual ID card, rather than a document proving an entitlement to drive a motorised vehicle, or a document that authorises passage through borders.

They are also going against the UKGC list of what they are allowed to accept, so this falls within the remit of the CMA investigation into unfair business practices, and one facet of this investigation has been the very issue of misuse of KYC to avoid paying winnings, and there is a prospect of heavy fines for operators found to be behaving in breach of UK consumer law.

They may accept a PAB, or they may insist you use the ADR. Either could be a lengthy process, so whatever you do, DON'T be tempted to play the money back just because they are being difficult, as this would mean they would no longer be held to account because they will claim you "chose to play on" rather than continue with the withdrawal.

 

[Chipkin9]

It's more of a valid ID card than a driving license, and indeed a passport. It is, after all, an actual ID card, rather than a document proving an entitlement to drive a motorised vehicle, or a document that authorises passage through borders.

They are also going against the UKGC list of what they are allowed to accept, so this falls within the remit of the CMA investigation into unfair business practices, and one facet of this investigation has been the very issue of misuse of KYC to avoid paying winnings, and there is a prospect of heavy fines for operators found to be behaving in breach of UK consumer law.

They may accept a PAB, or they may insist you use the ADR. Either could be a lengthy process, so whatever you do, DON'T be tempted to play the money back just because they are being difficult, as this would mean they would no longer be held to account because they will claim you "chose to play on" rather than continue with the withdrawal.

Thanks Vinyl

I am sick explaining that to MT Secure Casinos. I have pointed out numerous times to them on the accepted documents according to section 6.57 of the UKGC site here - Old / Expired Link

I mean I am literally sick to the teeth of pasting that link and explaining to them that it's A) Government Issued B) Valid and C) Apart of their License "agreement" as a UKGC Casino

I mean maybe I'm wrong.

Also I will not be touching the measly £200. I am just as stubborn and difficult. In the meantime I am sending them DNA samples as we speak so hopefully I can get the issue resolved. So incase of having to PAB I will be making this my last post here on the matter as I am aware of the process

 

[petro]

I have this problem myself. I have a national ID card that some casinos wont accept.
If I remember to, I ask them if it's acceptable before I deposit.
Some casinos don't even ask for ID, 32Red never asked me for any.

 

[Chipkin9]

My Email

Hi,

I'd like to ask that this Email finds it's way to Senior Management.

I am currently in a dispute with your casino (JoReels) regarding Photographic Identification.

My ID has been rejected and I have been informed that I will not receive payment until I provide a Passport or Drivers License.

The Casino has taken the stance to overlook my Valid ID.

The Irony of it all is that my Photographic ID is not only Government Issued but it is an ACTUAL ID Card. Although support are insisting that the card is not Government issued, well it is.

It is aptly named Electoral Identity Card, the clue is in the name.

That is what I (as a player/customer) am expected to provide to pass KYC measures, an ID card.

If anything it is a more valid ID card than a Driving License and Passport, yet the Casino insist on being stubborn and difficult on the matter.

I don't know if you are in breach of your UKGC License, but according to the UKGC a National Identity Card is a valid ID document, and I am being told it is not.

So who is right?

The guy from Live Chat or the body who provisions their License for you?

Here is what is stated from the UKGC website.

Documentary evidence

6.51

If verification is undertaken using documents, casino operators should usually rely upon documents issued by government departments.


6.57

The following sources may, therefore, be useful for verification of UK-based customers:

•current signed passport
•birth certificate
•current photo card driving licence
•current EEA member state identity card
•current identity card issued by the Electoral Office for Northern Ireland
•residence permit issued by the Home Office
•firearms certificate or shotgun licence
•benefit book or original notification letter from the Department of Works and Pensions
confirming the right to benefits
•council tax bill
•utility bill or statement (but not ones printed off the internet), or a certificate from a utilities supplier confirming an arrangement to pay services on pre-payment terms
•bank, building society or credit union statement or passbook containing current address (but not statements printed off the internet) - bank or credit cards alone will not be sufficient as these do not provide either residential address or date of birth
•confirmation from an electoral register that a person of that name lives at that address
•recent original mortgage statement from a recognised lender
•solicitor’s letter confirming recent house purchase or land registry confirmation of address
•local council or housing association rent card or tenancy agreement
•HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) self-assessment statement or tax demand
•house or motor insurance certificate
.
So I feel that I have provided more than sufficient enough evidence of my Identity.

It is not my fault support do not know what an Identity Card is even though it is written there on the card.

My hope now is that the issue can be resolved through direct contact with you (JoReels) and not through a time consuming ADR which will reflect negatively not just on JoReels, but MT Secure Trade as a group and an entity.

Thanks,

Paddy

 

[Chipkin9]

Their Response

Hi Paddy,

Thank you for your response and also patience and cooperation while we chased this with MT Secure Trade.

I am happy to let you know the ID card has been accepted, the withdrawal was also paid to you.

I wish you a pleasant evening and apologize for any inconvenience caused.

Do not hesitate to contact us should you have any further questions or queries.

If you are happy with the service you have received then don't hesitate to rate us in the email which will be sent to you later.

Best regards,

André
Senior Advisor

 

[Chipkin9]

So some common sense prevailed in the end, but not without the inconvenience and stress I would expect from an RTG casino operating on a Curacao License only.

While I am relieved that I got paid in the end, I can't help but feel embittered with just how far MT Secure casinos will go to stall payment for as long as possible.

Their casino's and practices have taken a turn for the worst.

We've all seen the huge decline in Guts.

Live chat and Email exchanges are getting more and more unpleasant, they are difficult to deal with, and they show less and less understanding and compromise.

They charge for deposits as well as withdrawals, and when I take everything into account I can not say anything good about MT Secure Trade and their operations.

 

[KasinoKing]

Their Response
If you are happy with the service you have received then don't hesitate to rate us in the email which will be sent to you later.

Got to be 10 out of 10 - surely!

KK

 

[Chipkin9]

Got to be 10 out of 10 - surely!

KK

Haha Indeed.

I can't fault their humour at least

 

[vinylweatherman]

That was quick, a couple of quotes from a legal document and they fold right away, yet they were being stubborn as hell, even at supervisory level.

You should make the CMA aware of this case, as far as I know they are still seeking further examples in order to understand just what the issues are.

They have at least avoided the lengthy and costly for them ADR process or an embarrassment in the civil courts, but it should never have made it this far, they have a UK licence, it comes with terms and conditions, and they should have made sure to have read and understood them.