Jennifer VS Allstar Slots

[secret2]

When I asked the investigator this he said it was processed by the main company which gave the processors permission to withdraw the money. So I asked "it was the casino?" He said "yes".

He also said the way the transactions were processed most times, they were duplicate purchases made within seconds of each other and then a few scattered here and there. This is how he came to conclusion its fraud charges.


So unless he is misinformed then yes it was allstarslots. Im taking their word for it here, I do not really know how these things work

"Duplicate purchase" ?

When I deposit sometimes, I receive a pink shaded warning, in the cashier section (RTG) that a "duplicate transaction has been detected.

It happened to me 2 days ago.

Did you see that when you deposited, Jennifer?....if so, this is a big problem that needs to addressed.

 

[Jennifer]

I dont recall seeing that to be honest. If its happening to others then I guess it could be the reason for this?

 

[secret2]

I dont recall seeing that to be honest. If its happening to others then I guess it could be the reason for this?[/QUOTE
Yes it happened to me..and I think it has to be the processor..imvvvho..because this happened at Inetbet. They sorted it out but I opted for the bonus to be taken away , so I played with twice my deposit...still not right.

BUT, though what is even more worrying is that I think you said that maybe you were not playing on the transaction dates? BUT this could be also for delayed CC processing and then DUPLICATE transations on that.

As Beth said (Harrys)...I feel for you, too.

If it is this case, then they should be responsible for refunding you.

 

[max1mike]

in my experience, its not the casino, its the shitty "processors", the same shitty processors who have trouble paying us. i had many charges from ccbilleu, but could not nail down exactly which casino it was initiated from, so, I stopped playing, without getting a prepaid card., and now, most of those don't work, so, im kinda done for now. on a positive note, ccbilleu has an office in the states, and if you call and bitch enough, they will refund the fraudulent charges... (if we/you are talking about ccbilleu) otherwise, please disregard, as I'm 1/2 asleep.

 

[vinylweatherman]

When I asked the investigator this he said it was processed by the main company which gave the processors permission to withdraw the money. So I asked "it was the casino?" He said "yes".

He also said the way the transactions were processed most times, they were duplicate purchases made within seconds of each other and then a few scattered here and there. This is how he came to conclusion its fraud charges.


So unless he is misinformed then yes it was allstarslots. Im taking their word for it here, I do not really know how these things work

This would scream FRAUD! were you making a purchase from an online shop, but this alone is not necessarily proof of fraud when it comes to gambling. Players may well keep depositing the same amount several times a day until either they hit big and withdraw, or decide they have taken enough of a battering that day. I have sometimes made a string of deposits of the same amount during a day. It is simply better than depositing everything at once and then finding a big win comes within the first few spins.

This investigator may not have enough experience of the gambling industry to say this is almost certain to be fraud.

What needs to be done is to get a full deposit history from the casino, and then match the deposits with the entries on the card statement, bearing in mind that they may be in the wrong order, or be entered days after the deposit was made to the casino. What matters is that the total amount charged to the card is matched by the total amount that made it into the casino account.

I have thought my card had been double charged a couple of times, but carrying out this exercise of matching a long term Cashcheck (it was MGS) history to the card statement it turned out that a few transactions had somehow got stuck for over a month, so rather than being charged soon after, ended up on the following months statement, and didn't fit with that months depositing history. No money had actually been taken that had not been credited to my casino account and played.

The investigator may not necessarily be correct when stating that the casino would have initiated each charge, including the duplicates. The processors are offshore, and things may be done differently in their local jurisdiction, whereas the investigator is relying on his knowledge of local procedure to declare it "impossible" for the processor to have taken the charges without a prompt from the casino each time.

The card fees would be based on the transaction coding, and down to the card company whether they treat a transaction coded as "gambling chips" as a purchase or a cash advance. Where deposits have been treated as a purchase in the past, it could have been because thay have been miscoded by the processor because of UIGEA, even though you are in Canada.

I have made deposits to La Vida via Barclaycard, but my statement listed them as "computer software" instead of "gambling chips" like all my other casino deposits. I was also charged a penny less each time. if anything, this would make a UK bank MORE suspicious because there is no need to miscode remote gambling transactions to get UK VISA cards to work, it is perfectly legal here. More likely the bank will consider the sudden purchase of over 4K worth of "computer software" from a card used almost exclusively for gambling as a sign of fraud. However, being Barclays, they didn't bat an eyelid

 

[kauphy]

this also happened to me a number of times.

too much being taken out of my account from the casino but i got ahold of the casino and they gave me back my money and it stop for awhile.

but then happened again.


it has,nt happen for awhile now but i still keep a good eye on my card and this was a prepaid one.

you will get it worked out don,t worrie.

and yes it was a cw casino that it happened with.

 

[maxd]

@Jennifer: if you can't be arsed to follow the proper procedures for Accred casinos then you'll have to be more selective in your thread titles.

Title changed to better reflect the OP's state of mind.

 

[Casinomeister]

You did not post at the same time, it was over a minute. Why would you post twice times in a row but conveniently wait until nifty posts his garbage and you follow it up with the exact same thing?

Why are you leaving? I would like to know why you did this and why you decided to point the finger at me first when this group has been having problems like this in the past and other issues? What is your agenda here?
...
How can I not be mad? I guess in a perfect world like nifty lives in everyone should not get upset and everything is butterflies and lollipops.

and btw nifty if you paid attention to my post where I clearly stated this thread is about warning members, you wouldnt suggest to PAB etc. I dont need to do that, Im getting it dealt with. Try paying attention please before you troll members.

Totally unnecessary - and you are being the troll here. In defense of Nifty, he had an issue at the way you were behaving - you deleted the original rant after he read it, so he was on the mark.

I don't care if you are warning people or not, to go apeshit on fellow members will not be tolerated. Club World is a member as well as Nifty29. You could have posted a firm warning without all the baggage while contacting the Casino Rep to give him a heads up so he could investigate.

If you want to rant and have a go at people, please be aware that this is not the forum to do this. Thank you.

@max1mike - your thanking privileges have been suspended for "Thanking" Jennifer's flame post directed at Nifty29. I have warned everyone for high-fiving flamey posts - that's bullying, and we don't do that here.

 

[chayton]

I wonder if these fraudulent charges that people have been getting coincide with the RTGs 'processor problems' causing payment delays? It seems to be that there's been a big increase in fly-by-night processors this year - people getting doublecharged or finding unauthorized charges on their credit cards, as well as casinos (mostly RTG) scrambling around trying to find new processors.

Seems to me if you're a crook and you want to make a killing in a very short amount of time, you'd open a processor and in a couple of months just disappear with the loot. Remember, that's what started Lock casino on their downward spiral. And to skim off the player accounts all it takes is one dishonest employee.

 

[rena35]

i have had this happen also with the charges but i didnt complain because it was a small amount and i didnt want a chargeback

 

[vinylweatherman]

i have had this happen also with the charges but i didnt complain because it was a small amount and i didnt want a chargeback

This is by far the biggest problem. It seems casinos are blacklisting players simply for questioning the charges through the casino, which is surely the RIGHT thing to do as opposed to going via the banks in this particular industry. Even if you DO go via the bank, it isn't a case of the bank taking the cardholder's word for it, there is a procedure that at some stage allows the merchant to give their side of the story. The problem with the US is that the merchant cannot exercise this right without blowing their cover, hence players are doing the casinos a favour by trying to resolve the problems quietly with the casino and it's processor, rather than following the procedure stipulated by the banks.

As there is a window of opportunity with the bank's systems, players can explore other avenues for up to 6 months before having to inform their banks. Where the amounts are in the thousands of dollars, casinos cannot expect players to just take the hit, after all, if the position were reversed, a casino would not take a thousand dollar hit from a fraudulent player just to stop a complaint thread being started in a public forum.

The complaints that have emerged over the last year show that this is a BIG problem, not just an "accident". The banking system is too robust to cause this level of "mistakes" in charges without there being some criminal intent behind them, even if this is just rogue employees. At best, it is rogue processors taking advantage of "timeouts" during a transaction and putting the charge through rather than allowing the pre-authorisation to lapse. At worst, it is rogue processors managing to "hack" the system to generate additional and unauthorised transactions from information gleaned from authorised ones. It's possible they are misusing the "recurring charge" facilty available to merchants where a single authorisation can be used to take a series of charges, for example, a subscription service.

I have noticed that there is no way to explicitly state a charge as "one off" or "recurring" when typing in card details on an internet merchant form, it is down to the merchant's terms of service whether or not they put it through as a recurring charge. Many cardholders are being caught out by this here in the UK because merchants use a single authorisation to take a series of charges. Most notorious are car hire firms on the continent, where holidaymakers pay the bill by card, and think that's it, only to find that the hire company have taken another big chunk days later for "damage" from the same authorisation. If hire firms can do this, then so can rogue processors.

 

[clubworld]

Hi Jennifer,
To make sure I understand correctly, you made a purchase with All Star Slots and then subsequently 12 further debits for ~$125 were made from your account with the same descriptor?
Can you contact me via PM with your username, the descriptor in question and a list of the dates and amounts of these additional charges.
Regards
Tom

 

[Nifty29]

This is by far the biggest problem. It seems casinos are blacklisting players simply for questioning the charges through the casino, which is surely the RIGHT thing to do as opposed to going via the banks in this particular industry. Even if you DO go via the bank, it isn't a case of the bank taking the cardholder's word for it, there is a procedure that at some stage allows the merchant to give their side of the story. The problem with the US is that the merchant cannot exercise this right without blowing their cover, hence players are doing the casinos a favour by trying to resolve the problems quietly with the casino and it's processor, rather than following the procedure stipulated by the banks.

As there is a window of opportunity with the bank's systems, players can explore other avenues for up to 6 months before having to inform their banks. Where the amounts are in the thousands of dollars, casinos cannot expect players to just take the hit, after all, if the position were reversed, a casino would not take a thousand dollar hit from a fraudulent player just to stop a complaint thread being started in a public forum.

The complaints that have emerged over the last year show that this is a BIG problem, not just an "accident". The banking system is too robust to cause this level of "mistakes" in charges without there being some criminal intent behind them, even if this is just rogue employees. At best, it is rogue processors taking advantage of "timeouts" during a transaction and putting the charge through rather than allowing the pre-authorisation to lapse. At worst, it is rogue processors managing to "hack" the system to generate additional and unauthorised transactions from information gleaned from authorised ones. It's possible they are misusing the "recurring charge" facilty available to merchants where a single authorisation can be used to take a series of charges, for example, a subscription service.

I have noticed that there is no way to explicitly state a charge as "one off" or "recurring" when typing in card details on an internet merchant form, it is down to the merchant's terms of service whether or not they put it through as a recurring charge. Many cardholders are being caught out by this here in the UK because merchants use a single authorisation to take a series of charges. Most notorious are car hire firms on the continent, where holidaymakers pay the bill by card, and think that's it, only to find that the hire company have taken another big chunk days later for "damage" from the same authorisation. If hire firms can do this, then so can rogue processors.

Could you show me where casinos are blacklisting players for asking about unauthorized charges?

I've only seen one possible relevant post where someone here spoke to allstarslots about "getting a refund". Now, considering the state that person was in, I'm sure the word "chargeback" also came up in the conversation, and in that case one IS at risk of being blacklisted (and rightly so). I haven't read where the casino DID blacklist them......so obviously your statement is wrong, as the player DID question the charges.

As I said, I'll put $100 of KK's money on the player provoking the "blacklist" threat from the casino by mentioning "chargebacks" and/or "bank investigation". In fact, if the player was aggressive as they were here, the casino may have understood "refund" to mean "chargeback".

Would I be pissed about being overcharged? Of course, but I would be asking for an audit trail from the casino for a 6 month period and reconciling it with my cc statement. I'm sure the rep could make that happen. If it were found that I was overcharged, I would expect CWC to refund the money. If they didn't, I would PAB. I would also warn others to check their statements (which everyone should do anyway). The only thing a bank investigation will do is get one blacklisted everywhere.

CWC might have CS issues and processor problems, but they certainly are not thieves.

I also notice vinyl that Tom has been kind enough to help even though he has "left the company"

 

[Zepher]

^^ Look who's back! WB Tom. You been on an extended holiday or something?

 

[rena35]

im new here and all i can post is my experience which is when i asked about a over charge about a year ago all deposits was put back on my card and it was labeled a charge back which isnt a good thing with the online casinos.Now i dont even question it.Like i said i have had it happen to me since then.

 

[Jasminebed]

I use a prepaid Visa, reloadable, which I think most Canadian gamblers would find useful. There are fees of course, but I don't find them unreasonable. Take a beating with currency exchange, but that's true with Skrill and disposible cards and normal credit cards.

It can be paid back to, and one of it's advertised uses is online gaming.

At one point my card details were compromised, but seriously, I think this happened offline. Because there were no funds on the card, there was a declined purchase, which was what alerted me. A new card was issued pretty promptly.

IIRC, I too had a "declined" transaction which was charged to my card at CWG. But because I use a prepaid, I noticed right away that the declined purchase had in fact been deducted from my card, and the chips were issued to my account a day or two after. (Think it was a weekend).

Edit: found the thread https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...irst-real-problem-with-clubworld-group.47285/

We all need to be vigililent with our cards and bank accounts, even those who do not gamble online. I remember fraudulent charges to cards back in the 70's, mostly down to restaurant or gas pump employees who had possesion of your card out of sight.

It's a tough world out there.

 

[Jennifer]

Im a little surprised to see both the admin and the moderator publicly call me out in this thread after I apologized and edited my post. I feel that is extremely unprofessional especially the "state of mind comment."

I have asked Bryan to close my account as I do not want to be part of this community any longer. Thank you to everyones comments in the thread where most were positive and empathetic.

I also feel very alarmed to see how many people are having these issues with the casino. I find it very odd the thread title was changed to insinuate I have a vendetta against the casino when I see 8 different posters confirming the same problem.

Take care and good luck
\
Jenn

 

[rena35]

good luck wherever u go hun and thanks for the warning

 

[BMWSTACK]

Im a little surprised to see both the admin and the moderator publicly call me out in this thread after I apologized and edited my post. I feel that is extremely unprofessional especially the "state of mind comment."

I have asked Bryan to close my account as I do not want to be part of this community any longer. Thank you to everyones comments in the thread where most were positive and empathetic.

I also feel very alarmed to see how many people are having these issues with the casino. I find it very odd the thread title was changed to insinuate I have a vendetta against the casino when I see 8 different posters confirming the same problem.

Take care and good luck
\
Jenn

Thats his job Jennifer. I dont believe he suspended you or anything, and maybe he did not do that because you did try to recover by apologizing and deleting the original thread. If a kid beats up another kid in the playground and he apologizes to the other kid , the teacher still needs to let him know its wrong. (not sure if thats a good analogy)

Your losing a very valuable forum by closing your account, you already admitted you were wrong, but the forum moderators still need to make the comments to have it known that this behavior will not be tolerated.

 

[Keno]

This is by far the biggest problem. It seems casinos are blacklisting players simply for questioning the charges through the casino, which is surely the RIGHT thing to do as opposed to going via the banks in this particular industry. Even if you DO go via the bank, it isn't a case of the bank taking the cardholder's word for it, there is a procedure that at some stage allows the merchant to give their side of the story. The problem with the US is that the merchant cannot exercise this right without blowing their cover, hence players are doing the casinos a favour by trying to resolve the problems quietly with the casino and it's processor, rather than following the procedure stipulated by the banks.

This echoes my thoughts exactly for what I had to do in my situation. I thought I was doing the right thing and instead got screwed for it. And for me, it was almost $5000 in fraudulent charges.

 

[me_and_ed]

Im a little surprised to see both the admin and the moderator publicly call me out in this thread after I apologized and edited my post. I feel that is extremely unprofessional especially the "state of mind comment."

I have asked Bryan to close my account as I do not want to be part of this community any longer. Thank you to everyones comments in the thread where most were positive and empathetic.

I also feel very alarmed to see how many people are having these issues with the casino. I find it very odd the thread title was changed to insinuate I have a vendetta against the casino when I see 8 different posters confirming the same problem.

Take care and good luck
\
Jenn

Emotions all get the best of us, its hard to walk backwards once the damage is done. It took me years to practice the 24 hour rule, I cannot count how many times I made an ass of myself only to wish I could have a redo the next day. This sounds harsh but suck it up, you were emotional, you made an ass of yourself, you have apologized, its now over. Dont let your bruised ego make a decision for you to leave that you will regret, I dont think anybody is here to judge you.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Could you show me where casinos are blacklisting players for asking about unauthorized charges?

I've only seen one possible relevant post where someone here spoke to allstarslots about "getting a refund". Now, considering the state that person was in, I'm sure the word "chargeback" also came up in the conversation, and in that case one IS at risk of being blacklisted (and rightly so). I haven't read where the casino DID blacklist them......so obviously your statement is wrong, as the player DID question the charges.

As I said, I'll put $100 of KK's money on the player provoking the "blacklist" threat from the casino by mentioning "chargebacks" and/or "bank investigation". In fact, if the player was aggressive as they were here, the casino may have understood "refund" to mean "chargeback".

Would I be pissed about being overcharged? Of course, but I would be asking for an audit trail from the casino for a 6 month period and reconciling it with my cc statement. I'm sure the rep could make that happen. If it were found that I was overcharged, I would expect CWC to refund the money. If they didn't, I would PAB. I would also warn others to check their statements (which everyone should do anyway). The only thing a bank investigation will do is get one blacklisted everywhere.

CWC might have CS issues and processor problems, but they certainly are not thieves.

I also notice vinyl that Tom has been kind enough to help even though he has "left the company"

I didn't say he had left, just that he had not informed anyone why he was going to be unavailable for so long during a developing crisis of confidence.

It seems that players ARE being told that their accounts are locked and all balances confiscated, and that this is a "final decision" even though they are just asking about the charges. Whilst Jennifer was very aggressive from the start, what about the other player who collated the evidence, and checked his card statement against his cashier statement and then forwarded this to 5 casinos to ask which of them could identify what was going on. Casino B (Rushmore) admitted it was their processor that had taken the money, and that they no longer worked with them. When the player informed Casino A (CWC) that the culprit had admitted to their processor being responsible, and that CWC were in the clear, CWC reacted by locking the account and confiscating $12K that was awaiting withdrawal. This looks like bullying the player to shut up and take the hit when this kind of thing happens, and this is not even a "two off". The forum is becoming littered by mainly US players who have discovered extra charges have been taken from their cards, and these are not mere "holds" either, the money has been taken and billed to the cardholder.

Although Tom had a stand in, she stayed silent whilst this crisis unfolded, and questions remained unanswered.

With "US style" payment delays now spreading to players all over the world, one has to wonder what on earth is going on, but can be sure that watever it is, it certainly isn't good.

I remember what CWC "normal service" is like for a non-US player using an eWallet. It was at worst next day payment (not including weekends), yet now it seems withdrawals routinely sit in pending for days, with quite a few then just being declined for no stated reason, as though they simply sat in the queue till they "timed out", and were then declined. It's like a call centre that is so grossly understaffed that callers are on hold for ages, and then the system just drops the call because it can no longer cope with the size of the queue.

 

[Jennifer]

good luck wherever u go hun and thanks for the warning

Thanks and you're welcome

Thats his job Jennifer. I dont believe he suspended you or anything, and maybe he did not do that because you did try to recover by apologizing and deleting the original thread. If a kid beats up another kid in the playground and he apologizes to the other kid , the teacher still needs to let him know its wrong. (not sure if thats a good analogy)

Your losing a very valuable forum by closing your account, you already admitted you were wrong, but the forum moderators still need to make the comments to have it known that this behavior will not be tolerated.

Their job to make back to back posts like that? I disagree. I was spoken to in PM by Bryan and received 3 separate infractions for this thread Where he went back and looked at my edited posts and still infracted me. One should suffice, not 3 since they were deleted and edited

Emotions all get the best of us, its hard to walk backwards once the damage is done. It took me years to paractice the 24 hour rule, I cannot count how many times I made an ass of myself only to wish I could have a redo the next day. This sounds harsh but suck it up, you were emotional, you made an ass of yourself, you have apologized, its now over. Dont let your bruised ego make a decision for you to leave that you will regret, I dont think anybody is here to judge you.

I disagree. If people think I made an ass out of myself well thats their opinion. I was frustrated and rightly so. I made a mistake posting while mad, thats all. I quickly tried to clean up the thread the best I can. The bruised ego is very far off and has nothing to do with requesting my account be closed. I find it very odd there have been over 25 complaints by tonnes of posters in regards to club world and not a single thing has been done by this forum and its officers. This has been going on for months. There has been no warnings issued by the powers that be and new players are still signing up and having issues because this site lists them as accredited. I find this to be a poor practice and while some of you loyal members will disagree to show your loyalty. Im sorry if you feel like this is a cheap shot and I wasnt even going to air and simply leave until you suggested its because of a damaged ego. I am simply confused with the mounds of complaints and player concerns why nothing has been done. I disagree with it and I do not support it. The amount of infractions I received for deleted posts, the public outting with back to back posts by admin even though I was spoken to via PM, the thread title change to make it look like I have a vendetta, the mass of complaints without anything being done, the sudden awol of the casino rep (who magically came back after I posted) solidifies my want to have my account closed. Plus it was time to call out the admin here in regards to why they have not done a single thing in regards to dozens of complaints. And I may be wrong but people who speak against admin of sites usually get banned anyways. So I will take that banning. I will not regret leaving this forum at all. I barely gamble as it is, I was mostly here to be friendly with others and congrats them on their wins and do my part to express issues with certain casino's. Thanks all and good luck and hope you all hit big in the future!

 

[Jennifer]

I didn't say he had left, just that he had not informed anyone why he was going to be unavailable for so long during a developing crisis of confidence.

It seems that players ARE being told that their accounts are locked and all balances confiscated, and that this is a "final decision" even though they are just asking about the charges. Whilst Jennifer was very aggressive from the start, what about the other player who collated the evidence, and checked his card statement against his cashier statement and then forwarded this to 5 casinos to ask which of them could identify what was going on. Casino B (Rushmore) admitted it was their processor that had taken the money, and that they no longer worked with them. When the player informed Casino A (CWC) that the culprit had admitted to their processor being responsible, and that CWC were in the clear, CWC reacted by locking the account and confiscating $12K that was awaiting withdrawal. This looks like bullying the player to shut up and take the hit when this kind of thing happens, and this is not even a "two off". The forum is becoming littered by mainly US players who have discovered extra charges have been taken from their cards, and these are not mere "holds" either, the money has been taken and billed to the cardholder.

Although Tom had a stand in, she stayed silent whilst this crisis unfolded, and questions remained unanswered.

With "US style" payment delays now spreading to players all over the world, one has to wonder what on earth is going on, but can be sure that watever it is, it certainly isn't good.

I remember what CWC "normal service" is like for a non-US player using an eWallet. It was at worst next day payment (not including weekends), yet now it seems withdrawals routinely sit in pending for days, with quite a few then just being declined for no stated reason, as though they simply sat in the queue till they "timed out", and were then declined. It's like a call centre that is so grossly understaffed that callers are on hold for ages, and then the system just drops the call because it can no longer cope with the size of the queue.

I also suggest people read this persons posts. He is a great poster and a valuable member to this site. Even when others who post for the casino's first and members second, he is the voice of reason and is completely unbias. He is a great person for the gambling community and hopefully he sticks around for a long long time. I have re-confirmed with Bryan to delete or self ban my account so that should be done shortly. Thanks again for most of the people showing empathy, kindness and understanding.

 

[Casinomeister]

I also suggest people read this persons posts. He is a great poster and a valuable member to this site. Even when others who post for the casino's first and members second, he is the voice of reason and is completely unbias. He is a great person for the gambling community and hopefully he sticks around for a long long time. I have re-confirmed with Bryan to delete or self ban my account so that should be done shortly. Thanks again for most of the people showing empathy, kindness and understanding.

I don't care that you are apologetic after the fact, calling members shills and that they post garbage is a major no-go. It's like you stick up a bank and say "I'm not robbing you" - you are still wrong.

I gave you a chance after closing your other account thinking you would be cool - but here you go complaining about me, this site, the mods, and name-calling your fellow members. Infractions are just that, and they have time limits. But you want to go, fine - banned for being a PITA.

By the way, your other account stated you were a male. What's up with that?

Bye.