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Is this illegal/ a crime ?

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by fyndet3, Feb 17, 2007.

    Feb 17, 2007
  1. fyndet3

    fyndet3 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    school adm.
    Location:
    Sweden
    VISA NOT SAFE !!??

    How is it possible for a casino to withdraw a deposit twice ?
    isnt that a crime? if they are able to take my money once they can easily do it again and again! I thought it was impossible. But apperantly not.
    I dont know what to do. They say they will pay me back but I feel robbed, naked, and exposed. :( and furthermore the 30 euros was supposed to be payed to a company debt I had. Now they are charging me for not paying them in time !! I complained to my bank about money being gone since I couldnt see where the money went until yesterday. Then I saw that the casino wich I had deposited one time 30 euros 060207 had stolen another 30 euros the very same day wich where NOT credited to my casino account!. It had just dissapeared. this is 10 days ago. still no money in my account to pay my bill !!

    what would you do?:what:
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  2. Feb 18, 2007
  3. TheGooner

    TheGooner Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Your VISA card will give you complete protection against unauthorised purchases - it's all part of your T&Cs with your bank.

    In this case it's not an issue of unauthorised access - but that the charge has been debited twice?

    It is possible that it was an error either manual or programmatic - but either way you should be able to fill out a form at the bank that issued your VISA saying that you think it is a duplicate debit.

    So if you've approached the merchant (casino) and got no satisfaction then tell them that you are going straight to your bank - and they'll also be slapped with chargeback and penalty fees.
    :D

    Sidenote :

    I'm not sure where Sweden sits with online gambling - and whether your particular card issuer has told you that online gambling payments are not allowed though.

    (eg. There are no problems for me in New Zealand - but I understand that it is now specifically banned for many US issued VISA Cards)

    This may cause a different issue.
     
  4. Feb 18, 2007
  5. mikepipe

    mikepipe Dormant account

    Occupation:
    owner
    Location:
    still progressing
    100% agree. But which casino is it?
     
  6. Feb 18, 2007
  7. fyndet3

    fyndet3 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    school adm.
    Location:
    Sweden
    casino770
     
  8. Feb 18, 2007
  9. Vrindavan

    Vrindavan Newbie member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Internet
    usually duplicated payments occurred on pressed submit twice or browser page back
     
  10. Feb 18, 2007
  11. fyndet3

    fyndet3 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    school adm.
    Location:
    Sweden
    Sweden has NO restrictions what so ever with visa cards or any payment with online gambling! so this is not the case here.;)

    I want to add that I have received email with confirmation about the double charging. But the main thing that bothers me is that they are able to do it without my confirmation. AND that it should take 15 days for them more than 2 weeks to put them back! and also since the money was a payment to another company, They are now charging ME for not paying them in time!
    It feels insecure to know that this could happen again. all my money every month is planned for. so when money is missing it stings and gets consequences. :(
     
  12. Feb 18, 2007
  13. fyndet3

    fyndet3 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    school adm.
    Location:
    Sweden
    I know, but then I would have made 2 deposits to the casino account, right. But this is not the case. ;) the money was NOT inserted to my casino account but just taken from my visa card and dissapeard. :eek2:
     
  14. Feb 20, 2007
  15. daera

    daera Ueber Meister webmeister

    Occupation:
    The Hodgepodge
    Location:
    USA
    Was the money taken from your Visa card or are those funds just 'Not Available' and 'Pending' right now? There's a big difference.

    If the funds are not available, it doesn't mean the casino has the funds. It just means you can't spend it because your bank holds whatever amount of money it has already authorized for payment.

    If you did click the submit button more then once when making your purchase then that IS probably why there's two charges. Probably the first one didn't show up in your account and you did it again thinking it didn't go through.

    It's like a time-out, Neteller and Money Bookers used to have them from time to time and casino support would have to manually claim the funds. With credit cards it's different though. The casino sometimes doesn't see this charge as approved or available to them, but the cc card company/bank does. After a period of time, the charge will drop back into your available balance where it never really left. Usually about 10 business days depending on your bank. It sucks! But it happens. I've had this happen at least 4 or 5 times with different casinos, and once with Western Union even. Frustrating!

    If your funds aren't just unavailable, but actually gone, then you need to talk to a superfisor at the casino maybe. Good luck...
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Jun 20, 2007
  17. fyndet3

    fyndet3 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    school adm.
    Location:
    Sweden
    query solved


    Thank you all for your answers. I know this topic is old. But found it again today and realized that this post of mine was too short and not explaining the problem at all, so I realized that you couldnt understand the problem at all. lol :p Since I cannot modify my post any more, I am writing you this post to clearafy that the casino in mind has resolved the matter . Anyways This is a topic I have to talk to the Visa company about instead. Just wanted to make that clear here. ;)

    Casino770.fr is a good casino in many ways and they are not to be blaimed for issues that the CC company is supposed to monitor and regulate.

    thank you all for your understandings in my poor knowledge in the english language and the poor way I expressed myself in this topic:rolleyes:. hope you all forgive me.
    thank you;)
    fyndet3
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jun 20, 2007
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Given the kind of BS we have to put up with from casinos, it is not surprising that it is the casino that gets the blame when something goes wrong.
    One way to prevent this in future would be to have a separate VISA card which is ONLY for casino deposits. This will ensure than previously budgeted money cannot either disappear, or be held "pending" while it is needed to make another payment. Most cards will decline a casino transaction if the transaction takes the card over the limit, however this can go wrong if the casino take too long in claiming the funds (they drop back into your balance, you spend them, THEN the casino claims the money & you go overlimit).

    I would hope that over these four months you have got both the money back, and got the charges refunded.
     
  20. Jun 21, 2007
  21. mysticjoz

    mysticjoz Senior Member

    Occupation:
    disabled~ (still capable of being pretty darn stub
    Location:
    somewhere... over the rainbow!
    Actually, consider yourself lucky it was only once.... for me an online casino took an unauthorized charge 5 times! (and I did not deposit that day, I was playing with a reversed cashout!),,, Different Casino also!
    I learned then to use click2pay or a prepaid card... I relate all too well to all the money being accounted for each month. and money you depend on being there.. missing. This is why I learned the hard way to NOT use my bank debit card EVER with online casinos....
    Also, I got the run around about a refund by the casino that burned me, in the end they "creditted my account" with "FREE CHIPS" and when I won there the FREE CHIPS came back and are still haunting me!
    Good luck.. but personally I would never again give any casino online access to my bank debit/credit card info (unless of course Inetbet!)<<they have never burned me. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2007
  22. Jun 21, 2007
  23. pja1

    pja1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Pediatric Neurology Nurse
    Location:
    No. CA, enroute to AZ
    Is this illegal/ a crime

    Dear FYNDET3, I have had this occur on more occasions than I care to mention. I was the victim of Identity Theft in 1990 and it still haunts me from time to time. Proving that this was an intentional act (fraud) is very difficult which is why it continues to occur. Casino will tell you that it was a mistake made by the bank and bank will blame casino. Big waste of time. Visa and Mastercard have very specific rules that MUST be agreed to and followed by any merchant accepting Visa and/or MC. What you ned to do is file a merchant error dispute with your credit card co./bank. You can do this by phone for quicker results. As soon as you notify CC Co. they MUST CREDIT YOUR ACCT. THE UNAUTHORIZED CHARGES AS WELL AS ANY OVERDRAFT AND/OR NSF FEES ASSOCIATED WITH TRANSACTION WITHIN 10 BUSINESS DAYS. This includes any charges RESULTING from unauth. transaction. If a transaction you auth. WOULD HAVE CLEARED HAD CASINO NOT DOUBLE CHARGED YOU, THE CC CO. MUST REVERSE THOSE FEES AS WELL. This is true whether you live in the USA, Europe, or on the moon. :) BTW, most CC Co's and Banks state in T & C's that WRITTEN NOTICE is the only acceptable form of communication to report an error. However, this is NOT TRUE. "Notice is considered given whether in person, by telephone or in writing". You are not even required to contact a specific dept. of the financial institute. As long as you notify a bank/CC Co. employee, that is considered taking "steps reasonably necessary to provide the financial institution with the pertinent information, whether or not a particular employee or agent of the institution actually receives the information". Additionally, the financial institution must " inform the consumer, within 2 business days after the provisional crediting, of the amount and date of the provisional crediting and gives the consumer full use of the funds during the investigation" and "corrects the error, if any, within one business day after determining that an error occurred". Any and all merchants who accept Visa and/or MC as a payment option are legally required to comply with The Consumer Protection Act. This includes Visa Debit and Pre-Paid and MC Debit and Pre-Paid cards as well. Falls under Electronic Funds Transfers FDIC-Consumer Protection for the USA. Go online to You must register/login in order to see the link. and you should be able to find whatever they call it where you are. Once you arm yourself with your legal rights and confidently and loudly advised all involved of same, you should see much quicker results. Violating your rights can cost them 3 times what they owe you PLUS some heavy legal fines! I have had casinos request authorizations for 6 transactions at the same time when I only authorized 1. They do this so that the can access funds whenever consumer initiates a chargeback to recoup monies spent. Most people are not very diligent checking for unauth. charges month after month but you either become a watchdog, close the acct. they have the info on or keep getting robbed. This has happened to me with Neteller, Firepay PaySpark as well. I eventually won disputes but what a pain in the a-- I only use a Pre-paid card now and fund it as I like. It's not a convenient but I've saved myself tons of grief, not to mention a considerable amount of money. Lastly, are the confirmation/authorization numbers for both transactions the same? If so, the financial institute must immediately reverse the second charge. It is absolutely illegal to use the same confirmation/authorization number for more than 1 transaction. :oops:Sorry for being so long-winded but I completely understand how frustrated you must be and finding out what yor legal rights actually are takes some doing. Don't expect bank or CC Co to know what the Law provides consumers, they absolutely do not nor are they interested in educating themselves. They only see these problems as more work for them and hope we'll just quietly disappear. Hope this helps! Feel free to contact me if you'd like more info or if I've said anything that doesn't apply where you live. Any consumer protection that exceeds those Visa/MC provides applies but anything less is superseded by Visa/MC T & C's. Have a great day!
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Jun 21, 2007
  25. pja1

    pja1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Pediatric Neurology Nurse
    Location:
    No. CA, enroute to AZ
    Is this illegal/ a crime?

    No offense everyone but the reason merchants get away with this kind of thing is because the resources we have available as consumers is not well known or easily deciphered. I had thousands of dollars taken from my accts. through the years since my ID theft that had I not investigated endlessly, I would be in the poor house. It frosts my tush that these large, faceless organizations think they can break all kinds of laws and step all over individuals and BELIEVE THEY WON'T BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!:mad: One voice can make a difference as long as one is stubborn, obsessive-compulsive and mad as heck! I love being told "it can't be done" makes me try that much harder!:lolup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Jun 22, 2007
  27. fyndet3

    fyndet3 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    school adm.
    Location:
    Sweden

    Thank you for your reply pja1. And I must say I AGREE WITH YOU completely!:thumbsup:
    If more people think like you do, and not just give up and let the big guys win all the time the world would be a better place (the casino world would) :p

    I wish you the best of luck in the future. Keep on fighting. LoL:lolup:
     

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