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I feel a problem approaching... what do I do?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by SquareShooter, May 18, 2008.

    May 18, 2008
  1. SquareShooter

    SquareShooter Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Gambling
    Location:
    Who's asking?
    Hi there. It's been some time...

    Long story short - I log in on my acct of a reputable casino (is there such a thing?) to find out that 90% of my balance is gone...
    Roll-over has long been completed, no cashouts or signs of hacks etc, but the balance is gone...

    Customer support clarified that they have a policy (which I never read or accepted ofcourse!) of deducting huge percentage of balance every month I do not log in. I repeat - HUGE percentage.. every month... And you know - they called it "management fee". They're acting like anti-bank or something :eek2:

    No sort of "management fee" was included and described in Terms and Agreements which I accepted. And OFCOURSE nobody warned nor even notified me (very convenient!) after each deduction. My e-mail's working and they know it, right!? Wouldn't it be logical to drop a message like - "hey if you care, we just took another of your $100. Kind regards".

    Ok, now I wonder... What do I do?

    At this moment I have stated to them that their "management fee policy" is not binding to me because it wasn't in T&A and requested my balance returned. I will probably be ridiculed.

    What then?
    Please give some advice!

    Thanks,

    SqSh
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. May 18, 2008
  3. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    What Casino is this ??....and again folks...when you post a situation like this asking for advice, please, please name the Casino !!
     
    12 people like this.
  4. May 18, 2008
  5. GaryWatson

    GaryWatson Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Marketing Consultant
    Location:
    Europe
    888Casino.com

    # Monies held in your account shall not attract any interest.

    # Should you fail to use your account for six months your account will be considered a "dormant account". The six-month period will run from the date of your last login to your account. In the case of a dormant account, the Company will levy a monthly administration fee at a rate of 10% of the balance in the account on the date that it became dormant. The administration fee shall be deducted from the dormant account commencing from the last day of the sixth month in which the account is inactive and on the last day of every month thereafter, until the balance of the account has reached zero. In the event that you login to your account during the ten-month period during which the administration fee is levied, the Company will cease to levy the administration fee but shall not be obligated to return to you any monies already deducted from the account at such time.
     
    3 people like this.
  6. May 18, 2008
  7. kakata

    kakata Banned User - hyper flamming PABnonaccred PABnoaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    miami fl
    ....and BTW how f...kin rich are you and what kind of an Id..t r u to leave money on a casino account.?....:confused:
    Something fishy about the story....I might be wrong tho....as usual:D
     
    3 people like this.
  8. May 18, 2008
  9. GaryWatson

    GaryWatson Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Marketing Consultant
    Location:
    Europe
    There could be many reasons why someone would leave cash online but that is a real sneaky term. I noticed it a couple of months ago at 888 and was pretty shocked. I dont know if that is the site he is talking about but it's the only one I have noticed.

    The terms havnt changed since november 2007.

    Never mind the big money, what about the $5-$10 people routinely leave on an account when they get fed up with a site for a while. Remember there is usually a minimum withdrawal in place.

    Sites who add terms like that should be avoided. This is nothing short of extortion
     
    5 people like this.
  10. May 19, 2008
  11. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Casinomeister accredited?
    Then P.A.B.
    (Even if not accredited - as long as it not in the rogue section - PAB)
    That's what Max is here for! :thumbsup:
     
    7 people like this.
  12. May 19, 2008
  13. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    Sorry I cannot remember which casino, but one of the T&C's at a casino I played at was that I agree to read the T&C's monthly. By agreeing to that policy I am bound by any changes made, (as I understood it) in the previous calendar month. I worked as a legal secretary and read T&C's and fine print on everything. Sometimes it is hard to find the T&C's from the casino software and you have to go to the casino site itself. I'll make sure to re-visit T&C's before my next deposit, and will add the name when I come across it. Elsewhere on this forum another member posted that you are wise to revisit the T&C's periodically, and I always check bonus terms and conditions on any e-mailed offers.
     
    3 people like this.
  14. May 19, 2008
  15. bonustreak

    bonustreak Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Home Office
    I have left money sitting in Micros plenty of times with no issues, been up and had to go run errands and next thing I know a few days go by before I have the chance to go in and play again, happens all the time more then you think.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. May 19, 2008
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Even though 888.com has this in their Ts&Cs (and I guess we're assuming that this is the casino Sharpshooter is referring to), one would expect a series of emails to be sent to notify the player that the balance is being chiseled away.

    10% a month seems pretty steep though :rolleyes:

    I'd suggest that Sharpshooter PABs so Max can have this addressed.

    Has this happened to anyone else?
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. May 19, 2008
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    If this is 888.com, they are licenced in Gibraltar, and this could be challenged under "unfair consumer contract" regulations. The reason being the charge is a PENALTY, and not a legitimate charge for a service, which would be the actual cost to the company of providing the service, plus a small profit of the same margin normally made on it's services.
    The UK Banks have LOST their recent case that their extortionate charges were "for providing a service", and it has been ruled that they can be investigated under the consumer contract laws.
    If the casino is NOT EU regulated, tough maybe, but always worth exerting pressure.
    The lack of notification certainly shows they were conniving to confiscate the balance, rather than give the player every opportunity to realise they had some funds left. Their maths is also pretty poor, as a 10% fee would surely be 10% of what is left, not 10% of the starting sum, otherwise it is NOT a "10% monthly fee", but rather a mechanism to clear the account in as short a time as possible.

    SOME casinos just seem to DESERVE rogue players:mad:

    "Do unto others as you would have others do unto yourself" - applies to businesses as well as people, and businesses that forget this often suffer in the long term, despite the short term gains.
     
    10 people like this.
  20. May 19, 2008
  21. SquareShooter

    SquareShooter Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Gambling
    Location:
    Who's asking?
    Ok, thanks folks!

    You know I have always been more of a sportsbook guy and I thought I have seen it all :what:

    I sent one last request to stop this shady business practice but most likely for no good.

    PAB I guess is Pitch A Bitch, I will do it as soon as they deny me last time.


    The casino was indeed 888.com (Casino-On-Net).

    Thanks guys, I will keep you up to date on how this resolves!

    Regards,

    SqSh
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. May 20, 2008
  23. SquareShooter

    SquareShooter Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Gambling
    Location:
    Who's asking?
    Ok, they denied me

    Ok, they denied me one last time, what a surprise.

    From my conversation with CS:
    Now, one last question - do I have rights and reason to PAB them or maybe is it really not a shady business practice? (I personally think thats a theft but obviously I can't be fully impartial on this one)


    BTW I also wonder is it not too late once again for me... Because PAB rules say:
    "If you choose to publicize your complaint in the public fora, we reserve the right to disregard it. Making complaints a public issue will usually derail most arbitrations."

    Does this thread I made qualify as publicizing complaint in public fora?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2008
    2 people like this.
  24. May 20, 2008
  25. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Your postings are perfectly understandable. I'm mostly concerned with players who come into a forum and start abusing a casino verbally. That's a good way to put a casino operator in the defensive mode. It doesn't apply in this case.

    As for PABing, well it may be fruitless since this is clearly stated in their terms and conditions. You can PAB, and Max or I can contact them and tell them their terms suck, but that's as far as it will probably go.

    FWIW - you won't find them listed here any time soon unless this policy is modified to something more player friendly. :rolleyes:
     
    3 people like this.
  26. May 20, 2008
  27. GaryWatson

    GaryWatson Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Marketing Consultant
    Location:
    Europe
    This is an adaption to a bank letter. I successfully claimed using this letter a few years back.

    To offer their services within the UK, I believe 888 are obligated to comply with the Consumer Act to maintain their accreditation. The letter goes as recorded delivery for proof of receipt.

    Im not really sure of international law but it could have strong implications regarding advertising in the UK.

    I can check a few details with someone when they come back from the Champions League game.





     
    7 people like this.
  28. May 20, 2008
  29. GaryWatson

    GaryWatson Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Marketing Consultant
    Location:
    Europe
    17.1 General

    If any part of this Agreement shall be deemed unlawful, void or for any reason unenforceable, then that provision shall be deemed to be severable from the rest of this Agreement and shall not affect the validity and enforceability of any of the remaining provisions of this Agreement. In such cases, the part deemed invalid or unenforceable shall be construed in a manner consistent with applicable law to reflect, as closely as possible, the original intent of the parties.
     
    4 people like this.
  30. May 20, 2008
  31. SquareShooter

    SquareShooter Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Gambling
    Location:
    Who's asking?
    Ok, thanks.

    So now I P.A.B.

    I'd also be very grateful for more info from GaryWatson's guys when they return :)
     
  32. May 20, 2008
  33. james01

    james01 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Germany
    I find this completely unbelievable.
    I mean, they're basically running a site which takes your money.
    Then they charge you more because you haven't given your money willingly enough.
    Unbelievable. Some businesses have absolutely no integrity.
     
  34. May 20, 2008
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It does show that those players who withdraw at the end of a session because they "don't trust the casino to look after it" are doing the right thing.
    This kind of action shows that some casinos will take full advantage of players who "trust" them more than is necessary. Pity for the industry though, as this lack of trust is reflected in the fact that many players disregard the ability of the software to hold a balance between sessions, even for weeks or months, and insist on withdrawing everything each time they decide to stop playing. Many players do not trust a casino to hold their money overnight!!!

    If a BANK did this, they would be forced to give it back. The only comparable thing to this are stores that sell "gift certificates", where the purchaser swaps proper money for "currency" issued by a store that may expire after as little as a year. The store makes 100% profit if the certificate is never used.

    Worth complaining to Gibraltar, just to see what their position is on this kind of business practice.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2008
    3 people like this.
  36. May 20, 2008
  37. lauram

    lauram Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    toronto
    I recall last month there was a post on about a casino wanted to charge them a extra fee when they had been done playing (they wanted to cash out) as they didnt like to leave their money in their account. They stated costs to much to give it back player deposits again and service fees add up. So now we have the opposite here
    leave it here we will just take it away if you dont log in. What about the person
    that gets caught up with a computer that dies has to wait to buy a new one.
    Or internet probs that at times dont get solved over nite. I for one can say that my last house cable went out took them over 4 months to redo the wires outside to set me up again as it was winter and they couldnt just fix the the cable lines are they are underground. So now you deal with depositing and if you cant log in for some time they are going to take your money from you.
    Just like banks have that dormant account but at least its a year and then its in a holding area not just vanished away.
     
  38. May 20, 2008
  39. lots0

    lots0 Banned User - troll posts - flaming PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    I do nothing productive
    Location:
    Hell on Earth
    I have had 888 and all their casinos on a blacklist for a VERY long time.

    These guys, in my opinion, are some of the worst of the worst.

    I hope you get your money, but I would not hold my breath...
     
    1 person likes this.

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