How Slots Work, are made and adjusted - Informational Videos

The Reel Story

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May 5, 2019
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On my YouTube Channel, among my gambling videos, I'm producing a series called 'How Slots Work' in an effort to help explain some of the inner workings of online and land based slots as well as some industry insights and other things. I've done 2 videos so far (below) with more to follow (they take a while to produce) with the next one likely to be a deep dive into Danger! High Voltage, building on some of the information I already shared in another thread.

Here are the vids. Shout if you have any questions.


 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
On my YouTube Channel, among my gambling videos, I'm producing a series called 'How Slots Work' in an effort to help explain some of the inner workings of online and land based slots as well as some industry insights and other things. I've done 2 videos so far (below) with more to follow (they take a while to produce) with the next one likely to be a deep dive into Danger! High Voltage, building on some of the information I already shared in another thread.

Here are the vids. Shout if you have any questions.




Just one question, in video 1 you say as soon as you pick gates or HV the server returns the result of all wins and retriggers etc, yet the CEO of BTG has said on these forums that each spin in bonus is a separate RNG call, so you can't be both right, so which is it?

Not wanting to be picky but if your going to post stuff like this like you need to right before telling people their "totally utterly wrong" < vid2 . How can you know for certain how each provider handles each game if your not part of that provider.


Im not saying your wrong, and agree with a lot of what you say, just that your assuming you know how every single provider is doing it, which is a bit of a stretch.


You also dont mention that RTP online is NOT the same as slot machines say in your local arcades, pubs and bingo halls etc eg AWPs So this could be misleading to some viewers that think that your saying that every slot everywhere is the same when it comes to getting to its RTP.


As a compensated AWP does exactly what you say online slots don't do in the videos..........eg adjust payouts according to its current RTP and target. Just saying :)
 

The Reel Story

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May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
Just one question, in video 1 you say as soon as you pick gates or HV the server returns the result of all wins and retriggers etc, yet the CEO of BTG has said on these forums that each spin in bonus is a separate RNG call, so you can't be both right, so which is it?

Not wanting to be picky but if your going to post stuff like this like you need to right before telling people their "totally utterly wrong" < vid2 . How can you know for certain how each provider handles each game if your not part of that provider.

I'm not saying your wrong, and agree with a lot of what you say, just that your assuming you know how every single provider is doing it, which is a bit of a stretch.

You are right. I did that video before I had looked in to BTG slots. They do indeed make a server call for each and every spin, even in free spins. They do appear to be the only one who does so though. The video is based on industry standard, it just so happens I chose the exception to use as an example haha. Typical. I've never seen another do it though. Not to say there isn't another, but for sure, most do not. This is primarily due to efficiency reasons more than anything else.

You also dont mention that RTP online is NOT the same as slot machines say in your local arcades, pubs and bingo halls etc eg AWPs So this could be misleading to some viewers that think that your saying that every slot everywhere is the same when it comes to getting to its RTP.


As a compensated AWP does exactly what you say online slots don't do in the videos..........eg adjust payouts according to its current RTP and target. Just saying :)

This is true, while I have some experience of land based slots, I don't have a lot of experience with Fruit or arcade machines, so my video is targeted at video slots specifically. I'll put a note in the description of the video clarifying :)
 

Playford7

Permanent Ban: Too much flaming
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We can study and have all the info in the world but it means diddly squat if you like slots.
I don’t believe for a second they are as transparent as we are told, no matter how much mind numbing the maths are behind the games.
Yeah we have the resident foil swatter (trance) and a few others popping up with reels and strips and other alchemy..
Which is great for discourse, but me for one has re placed my foil hat and it sits proudly on my shaven bald head :)
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
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Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Yes I have to say as nice as it is to have some info and insight as to how slots predominantly work Imo there will always be the finite detail that remains unexposed.

There are some things that don’t add up like for example how is it nobody ever sees the 117,649 in the bonus round on Bonanza. How is it you can predict the likely outcome of a bonus round after 1 or 2 spins etc, etc.

I am grateful for the effort these programmers are providing but we now have a dilemma in that one says bonus rounds are predetermined, apart from Btg vs @trancemonkey who states categorically that bonus rounds are not predetermined:confused:.
 

Okman

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Yes I have to say as nice as it is to have some info and insight as to how slots predominantly work Imo there will always be the finite detail that remains unexposed.

There are some things that don’t add up like for example how is it nobody ever sees the 117,649 in the bonus round on Bonanza. How is it you can predict the likely outcome of a bonus round after 1 or 2 spins etc, etc.

I am grateful for the effort these programmers are providing but we now have a dilemma in that one says bonus rounds are predetermined, apart from Btg vs @trancemonkey who states categorically that bonus rounds are not predetermined:confused:.

RE: the predetermined angle, for example in pick a box features, I always went by the idea that when you selected a box and it showed you what was in the others that it was random. In an instance where you pick a box and that is the only one you see and the others are not revealed, this is predetermined. Happy to be proven wrong, probably just one of those gambler’s correlation/causation things.

88 Fortunes jackpot coins are always predetermined though, you will always get the bloody mini 9.9 times out of 10.

Just my 2c
 

bamberfishcake

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We can study and have all the info in the world but it means diddly squat if you like slots.
I don’t believe for a second they are as transparent as we are told, no matter how much mind numbing the maths are behind the games.
Yeah we have the resident foil swatter (trance) and a few others popping up with reels and strips and other alchemy..
Which is great for discourse, but me for one has re placed my foil hat and it sits proudly on my shaven bald head :)
I'm leaning towards this conclusion myself but I still need to be schooled to come to any assumption and since having a better understanding I've had a bit more fun. I've learnt it's as much about my attitude and application as well as the luck. Before looking into it I believed a lot of the myths.
 

dunover

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You are right. I did that video before I had looked in to BTG slots. They do indeed make a server call for each and every spin, even in free spins. They do appear to be the only one who does so though. The video is based on industry standard, it just so happens I chose the exception to use as an example haha. Typical. I've never seen another do it though. Not to say there isn't another, but for sure, most do not. This is primarily due to efficiency reasons more than anything else.
This is true, while I have some experience of land based slots, I don't have a lot of experience with Fruit or arcade machines, so my video is targeted at video slots specifically. I'll put a note in the description of the video clarifying :)


Nope.
 

trancemonkey

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United Kingdom
You are right. I did that video before I had looked in to BTG slots. They do indeed make a server call for each and every spin, even in free spins. They do appear to be the only one who does so though. The video is based on industry standard, it just so happens I chose the exception to use as an example haha. Typical. I've never seen another do it though. Not to say there isn't another, but for sure, most do not. This is primarily due to efficiency reasons more than anything else.



This is true, while I have some experience of land based slots, I don't have a lot of experience with Fruit or arcade machines, so my video is targeted at video slots specifically. I'll put a note in the description of the video clarifying :)

They most certainly aren't the only ones that do it... there are many others that do an RNG call per spin.

But whether it does all at the start, or an RNG per spin, it is still statistically exactly the same.

You're also right that efficiency is one reason, but also game recovery is another. For example, if the server plays all the games out first and then sends the results one at a time, the server knows the final outcome. If a game is disconnected and for some reason never reconnected, the server can still add the final total to the balance if need be. From a game fairness point of view, this is actually better. For example, if the client got in to an unrecoverable state, the server could still kill that game cycle and award the total win anyway....
 

The Reel Story

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Location
United Kingdom
They most certainly aren't the only ones that do it... there are many others that do an RNG call per spin.

But whether it does all at the start, or an RNG per spin, it is still statistically exactly the same.

You're also right that efficiency is one reason, but also game recovery is another. For example, if the server plays all the games out first and then sends the results one at a time, the server knows the final outcome. If a game is disconnected and for some reason never reconnected, the server can still add the final total to the balance if need be. From a game fairness point of view, this is actually better. For example, if the client got in to an unrecoverable state, the server could still kill that game cycle and award the total win anyway....

All the platforms I've worked with in the past worked in this way. Game recovery was handled the other way, with the client pushing state back to the server (current spin number) which would be returned on recovery. Didn't impact efficiency as the requests to save the state were done asynchronously (didn't really matter if one failed).

Either way, as you note, it makes no difference to the outcome :)
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
Yes I have to say as nice as it is to have some info and insight as to how slots predominantly work Imo there will always be the finite detail that remains unexposed.

There are some things that don’t add up like for example how is it nobody ever sees the 117,649 in the bonus round on Bonanza. How is it you can predict the likely outcome of a bonus round after 1 or 2 spins etc, etc.

I am grateful for the effort these programmers are providing but we now have a dilemma in that one says bonus rounds are predetermined, apart from Btg vs @trancemonkey who states categorically that bonus rounds are not predetermined:confused:.

I think we need to address this point

Predetermined does NOT mean rigged.

Generating all of the results up front is no different to generating them one at a time. It makes no difference whatsoever. The word 'Predetermined' is used like it's a bad thing. It just efficient.

RE: the predetermined angle, for example in pick a box features, I always went by the idea that when you selected a box and it showed you what was in the others that it was random. In an instance where you pick a box and that is the only one you see and the others are not revealed, this is predetermined. Happy to be proven wrong, probably just one of those gambler’s correlation/causation things.

88 Fortunes jackpot coins are always predetermined though, you will always get the bloody mini 9.9 times out of 10.

Just my 2c

Again, predetermined does not mean it is not random. When you click a box, it shows you your result. It doesn't matter which box you pick, you will always get the same result. This is true whether it reveals the other boxes or not. However that result was random. It's just presentation, window dressing.

Also, just because there are 5 boxes does NOT mean the odds are 1 in 5 of hitting the big win. Again, this is presentation. The odds of getting the big win are very low, and just because they show it to you after you select your box does not mean you had the possibility of selecting it (in that game). The only thing that matters is the random result generated by the server. If the server RNG produces the result of jackpot, that's what you'll win. If it produces a low win, that is what you'll get. The box you select doesn't matter, but that doesn't mean it's rigged.

I do agree that it is disingenuous presentation though. One of the reasons I LOATH picking bonuses (they're also just boring).
 

Sasukdcf

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i was going to start a new thread however my question is sorta linked to this thread and has all the right people talking in it so will post mine here if thats ok...

on the megaways game temple where if you hit the feature you can choose 1 of 3 sets of spins or go for random.
if you choose random then whats the situation regarding picking the boxes? does anyone know?

i would have thought it should be random although clearly isnt as to date i have never hit the 15 spins at 10,000 ways even though it should be a 1/9 shot.

and last night i decided to keep choosing the same 2 boxes over and over again.

i bought around 30 features in total and had good and bad results but as for the picking of boxes not a single selection put me above the possible starting point of any of the 3 features....

in theory its a 1/3 shot of getting a head start on the feature

there are 9 possible outcomes and hitting 15 x 2304 or 10 x 10,000 or 15 x 10,000 would all be a positive outcome.

i didnt hit any of these and although i have in the past hit a couple this seems very skewed while giving the impression its a random choice ( which it should be in my mind and doesnt allude anywhere to not being so.....

comments please TIA
 

The Reel Story

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May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
i was going to start a new thread however my question is sorta linked to this thread and has all the right people talking in it so will post mine here if thats ok...

on the megaways game temple where if you hit the feature you can choose 1 of 3 sets of spins or go for random.
if you choose random then whats the situation regarding picking the boxes? does anyone know?

i would have thought it should be random although clearly isnt as to date i have never hit the 15 spins at 10,000 ways even though it should be a 1/9 shot.

and last night i decided to keep choosing the same 2 boxes over and over again.

i bought around 30 features in total and had good and bad results but as for the picking of boxes not a single selection put me above the possible starting point of any of the 3 features....

in theory its a 1/3 shot of getting a head start on the feature

there are 9 possible outcomes and hitting 15 x 2304 or 10 x 10,000 or 15 x 10,000 would all be a positive outcome.

i didnt hit any of these and although i have in the past hit a couple this seems very skewed while giving the impression its a random choice ( which it should be in my mind and doesnt allude anywhere to not being so.....

comments please TIA

So this is a prime example of disingenuous presentation. The result is random. It IS possible to get 15x10,000, however the odds are most certainly NOT 1 in 9. It doesn't matter what boxes you pick, you'll get the result the server generated for you. That result is still random, but the chance of getting the 'big one' is very very low. I can't tell you the odds, because that will be held on the server, but the graphics are designed to make you feel like you have a better chance than you actually do.
 

SlotGrinder

Senior Member
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Jan 8, 2016
Location
England
i was going to start a new thread however my question is sorta linked to this thread and has all the right people talking in it so will post mine here if thats ok...

on the megaways game temple where if you hit the feature you can choose 1 of 3 sets of spins or go for random.
if you choose random then whats the situation regarding picking the boxes? does anyone know?

i would have thought it should be random although clearly isnt as to date i have never hit the 15 spins at 10,000 ways even though it should be a 1/9 shot.

and last night i decided to keep choosing the same 2 boxes over and over again.

i bought around 30 features in total and had good and bad results but as for the picking of boxes not a single selection put me above the possible starting point of any of the 3 features....

in theory its a 1/3 shot of getting a head start on the feature

there are 9 possible outcomes and hitting 15 x 2304 or 10 x 10,000 or 15 x 10,000 would all be a positive outcome.

i didnt hit any of these and although i have in the past hit a couple this seems very skewed while giving the impression its a random choice ( which it should be in my mind and doesnt allude anywhere to not being so.....

comments please TIA

It would never be randomly weighted as the graphics represent
You can look at the choices and realise that they are not equally spaced in value
If there was no increasing multi then the spins should be equal chance because 5 - 10 -15 it's just like 1 -2 -3 . But with the increasing multi obv spins 10-15 are worth a LOT more than spins 1-5 . The value of number of spins increases exponentially .
Same with the number of megaways and when you compound megaways with spins with increasing multi and consider that the potential winnings are uncapped whilst the potential loss is capped (your buy amount) then it's clear that the best choice of 15 x 10000 has to happen a lot lot less often than an average or bad choice

As a completely uneducated guess :p I'd say first choice of spins is like

5 = 50% 10 = 30% 15 = 20%

but then say you pick 5 the megaways choice would be

324 = 20% 2034 = 30% 15 = 50%

but if you managed to pick 15 spins

324 = 70% 2034 = 20% 10000 = 10%

so really overall there's only a 2% chance of hitting the best 15 x 10000

disclaimer : those numbers are completely made up haha but from my experience of playing the game it's definitely weighted in that sort of way
 
Last edited:

Sasukdcf

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Norwich
that seems to be about right regarding the odds....

i hit 5 x 324 3 times on the bounce which made me laugh (NOT!)

however that said why couldnt they just set it up as random.....surely the odds of 1/9 against would offset automatically and plus just cos you hiy 15 x 10,000 doesnt automatically mean a huge feature....

bit like hitting extra symbols on millionaire etc

I just think its very misleading....

i tend to just take the 5 x 10,000 spins now and hope for a retrigger !!
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
that seems to be about right regarding the odds....

i hit 5 x 324 3 times on the bounce which made me laugh (NOT!)

however that said why couldnt they just set it up as random.....surely the odds of 1/9 against would offset automatically and plus just cos you hiy 15 x 10,000 doesnt automatically mean a huge feature....

bit like hitting extra symbols on millionaire etc

I just think its very misleading....

i tend to just take the 5 x 10,000 spins now and hope for a retrigger !!

Unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that. The 15 x 10,000 won't be offset by the 5 x 324 due to the incrementing multiplier. It has an exponential effect. If they were to make the odds truly 1 in 9, the RTP of the game would be well over 100% :)
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
I am with @Sasukdcf on this one, that the game is like many others blatantly misleading the player, by giving the choices the way it does.

It could be clearer to a seasoned player that it isn't probably a true representation but compared to something like when you have 4 progressives with only 12 choices ( 3 of each ) which clearly won't be true choice this could look to the player as quite plausible that its true chance. I really think these are the sort of things that the UKGC should be looking into and forcing the slot providers to at least display the term "the odds are not necessarily the same as displayed" etc So that it is clear your choices have no impact on the result. Does that take the fun out? Yes absolutely, but so does the fact its not true choice anyway!.

A better way would have just been display the result as soon as they pick the "mystery choice" one with no player pick at all. This could have then been the randomly awarded feature.

The other thing that further compounds the belief to the player that the player had a true choice is the reveal after the pick. In situations where the player had no real chance to change the outcome they have no reason to be displayed and is something they shouldn't do IMO. In Nevada for example this method is illegal for that very reason, I appreciate that you cannot compare land based with online but that's a rule that IMO should apply to online as well, as it can harm a player chasing odds that don't exist.

Its one thing for providers to hide the math for the game, of true odds of hitting a jackpot or feature etc but totally another to deceive a player into thinking they have a true choice when they don't, most players already know if the other results from the pick are not revealed then it was predetermined so that would be a good way forward for providers to not reveal the other outcomes in these cases.

I know that pick me bonuses are problematic for game security and recovery and that is most of the reasoning for predetermination, but don't make it in a way that its not transparent to the player whats really doing on, there is no need.
 

lotusch

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Dún Dealgan
Isn't it the same with games where you can win a progressive JP and have to match 3 symbols to win the matching JP?
On Playtech progressive slots for example where you can win a power (mini) extra power (maxi) super power (mega) ultimate power (super) jackpot.
You pick coins until you match 3 identical symbols and win the corresponding JP.


I have triggered this JP feature a couple of times and ALWAYS won the mini JP.
Some WMS slots has a similar pick feature for a progressive and same story, always won the mini (lowest) JP.
So true odds are defo not in play here which is fine as players could pick the biggest JP every time out of sheer luck if it wasn't set up in a certain way :)
 
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