Guts/Betspin/Rizk and generally the issue with Groups and Operators linked by licence

[mac72]

Mac72, as it happens Yits was in a meeting with me at that time, where we were discussing - amongst a large number of other matters - your case and that of taximania123.

There have been other points on this during this whole thread and so to be clear. Earlier this month we upgraded our cross referencing software and procedures to ensure that these type of situations should not happen in the future, this means that anyone that has an exclusion from any of the brands should NOT even be able to register at another brand during an exclusion period.

What it also means is that on top of an already full workload there is a backlog of cases that are being resolved on a daily basis. Taximania123 should receive a communication in the next hour or two that his case has been resolved and Mac72, Yits will get to your case later today.

You can rest assured that these cases still have visibility and are being actioned, the necessary processes are being followed. The relevant and auditable paperwork that we need to do for these cases is being created and processed



Tirilej is pretty much spot on here and, as above, and as above these will be solved asap.

I'd like to receive the outcome to my case in open on this thread not by pm.This caused me considerable annoyance at the time with GUTS and the follow up with Tony from that company, i got past it but now its annoying me again and why shouldn't it.
I played completely within the rules, the one overbet is not an overbet as per the live chat it was quashed. If thats not the case then obviously live chat cannot be trusted.
So in effect we have a situation where i played within the rules and then was left not knowing what was going on,had my payment info been hacked etc etc. Just let me know in the open forum how this all came about

 

[mac72]

As a quick aside, 2016 notification addresses all of 2015; and 2015, for 2014...so essentially, they won the awards before the most current..ie but a year and a bit they won
Additionally, as it turns out, Tril was likely pretty spot on.

yeah she was! - 4/6 on she pm'd them. The reason they're talking now after an absense is cause we're talking and thats it in a nutshell

 

[Tirilej]

yeah she was! - 4/6 on she pm'd them. The reason they're talking now after an absense is cause we're talking and thats it in a nutshell

No I didn't. Since they hadn't responded to your pm's then I knew they wouldn't respond to mine. Chrystal clear.

I say what I feel needs to be said, and I defend anyone who deserves it. If that annoys you then it's your problem, though I think it's sad. It would be so much easier in here if we were polite and listened to eachother.

 

[dionysus]

Additionally, I'd not pmed anyone either; rather, the team saw the post/thread and responded.

 

[mac72]

Additionally, I'd not pmed anyone either; rather, the team saw the post/thread and responded.

ah its all clear now, they watch the THREADS and respond nearly immediately they get going,its just the numerous pm's they ignore for weeks!!

 

[mac72]

No I didn't. Since they hadn't responded to your pm's then I knew they wouldn't respond to mine. Chrystal clear.

I say what I feel needs to be said, and I defend anyone who deserves it. If that annoys you then it's your problem, though I think it's sad. It would be so much easier in here if we were polite and listened to eachother.

Lets be "crystal" clear on this Tirilej, i am annoyed about the GUTS situation and how i was treated and made feel . I am not in the slightest bit annoyed about anything you would ever say, i have always viewed you as wearing two hats and that makes your views on most things to me anyway irrelevant.

 

[dionysus]

ah its all clear now, they watch the THREADS and respond nearly immediately they get going,its just the numerous pm's they ignore for weeks!!

What is clear is that, though you referenced GUTS in your first line, the Cap'n, outside of his own responsibilities and duties was kind enough to step in and post on behalf of his peer to a relevant point but recognizes the other points arent his remit

 

[mac72]

What is clear is that, though you referenced GUTS in your first line, the Cap'n, outside of his own responsibilities and duties was kind enough to step in and post on behalf of his peer to a relevant point but recognizes the other points arent his remit

According to him he was sitting beside his peer ! And i referenced Rizk in the 1st line too

 

[dionysus]

Lets be "crystal" clear on this Tirilej, i am annoyed about the GUTS situation and how i was treated and made feel . I am not in the slightest bit annoyed about anything you would ever say, i have always viewed you as wearing two hats and that makes your views on most things to me anyway irrelevant.

I may be quoting YOU, but to Tril - I respect she wears two hats. She can see the player side AND the casino side. To me, that makes her unbiased and her opinions incredibly relevant.

I may appear here, to be casino biased, but I put ANY casino through the wringer. I call out, freely, both sides.

 

[mac72]

I may be quoting YOU, but to Tril - I respect she wears two hats. She can see the player side AND the casino side. To me, that makes her unbiased and her opinions incredibly relevant.

I may appear here, to be casino biased, but I put ANY casino through the wringer. I call out, freely, both sides.

Every player has to see the casino side, she sees the casinos side way too often when its obvious they are in the wrong , thats my opinion, has been for a while now

 

[crikeym8]

A good casino would have a feature warning you when you make those mistakes. A good casino would prevent you increasing above that limit. A good casino wouldnt allow you to sign up twice by implementing simple data comparison coding. a good cxasino wouldnt allow deposits if data between accounts breaches their terms. Thats a good casino, ive found 2 that provide these features, this week i closed every other casino account i could remember being on except these two.

 

[Guts - Yits]

Hi mac82 - can you outline to me please in a single, simplified post what it is you are requesting of me? This all happened way, way before my time at Guts and it's not 100% clear to me what you are requesting? I cannot access the EM game-round-specific data without requesting it especially from them (although it would be forthcoming if requested, I'm certain), and according to the original game logs you posted you did indeed breach terms, albeit ever so slightly which may have been harshly interpreted by whoever took the decision to enforce these terms. As I originally stated it might not necessarily be the approach I would have taken - but I again stress that I had nothing to do with it.

So, once again, state in clear terms what you are seeking please so I do not need to skim through this thread in its entirety and assemble it as that invariably causes me to miss one or more aspects of the development? If it is confirmation that enforcement was overly harsh - then yes I agree with you, and they could have perhaps extended your wagering a bit or given you a last chance warning to please avoid it in the future.

If it is compensation you seek - outline it kindly.

And yes, I do not take chats via the customer service tool if at all possible - I will on occasion help them when they are slammed, simply because there are too many chats in the queue, but it is a rare occurrence. I am constantly working and incessantly behind on operational tasks, last night I was setting up bonuses at 02:00 AM, after having worked the entire weekend to keep the Easter Trivia promo stable and address all bugfixes. CS are there to take your chats. It is not because I "feel too good" for it - it is because I do not have the time, and otherwise there would be no promos, no free spins, no new games, no bonuses, no offers, no new functionalities etc...

That is not snobbery, it is common sense.

Having said that, I am looking internally for a solution to this CM absence that I occasionally fall into - I will soon announce an additional rep either sharing my login or setting up his own - we shall then rotate CM coverage shifts, because I am conscious of the fact that I sometimes go awol and need to find a solution that more suits the fair fulfillment of legitimate CM contacts and gripes. I apologise sncerely to all legitimate contacts who have been kept waiting.

I kindly await your public response, and shall answer it tomorrow by 19:00 CET.

Respectfully,

Yits

I'd like to receive the outcome to my case in open on this thread not by pm.This caused me considerable annoyance at the time with GUTS and the follow up with Tony from that company, i got past it but now its annoying me again and why shouldn't it.
I played completely within the rules, the one overbet is not an overbet as per the live chat it was quashed. If thats not the case then obviously live chat cannot be trusted.
So in effect we have a situation where i played within the rules and then was left not knowing what was going on,had my payment info been hacked etc etc. Just let me know in the open forum how this all came about

 

[Guts - Yits]

This tool was recently developed, but the messaging is too confusing to go live with for the customer. The workaround for the (unexpectedly complicated) messaging problems that are being overriden by the game-provider iFrame are currently being scoped.

FYI - I hear your point and you are not at all being obtuse by stating it, but I stress please always read bonus terms. Our general bonus terms are among the most simple and understandable in the industry - and our CS team is there to clarify further regarding any of the quite few clauses that encompass these bonus terms.

I never, ever play at a casino without checking terms. I strongly suggest as a fellow gamer that you do the same - it's a pain to do so at the time as you are likely excited and ready to deposit and play, but it's worth it. Kind of like going to doctor to check out that pesky cough rather than seeing if you can wait it out and it goes away - it's not immediately convenient, but it is extremely prudent and by far the better tactic.

I hope this makes sense - and that you see that we have taken this feedback aboard for our casino platform.

BR

Yits

A good casino would have a feature warning you when you make those mistakes. A good casino would prevent you increasing above that limit. A good casino wouldnt allow you to sign up twice by implementing simple data comparison coding. a good cxasino wouldnt allow deposits if data between accounts breaches their terms. Thats a good casino, ive found 2 that provide these features, this week i closed every other casino account i could remember being on except these two.

 

[Guts - Yits]

Taximania123,

I am sorry - I was ensured that your refund would be fully processed - we made sure to get this done today and I have received confirmation that it had been dispatched . You should also have received an email from the head of customer services reconfirming this.

Why this happened I don't know - I thought this chapter had been finalised and can only assume it was a human oversight, rather than a system error.

No excuses here from my end, it was a crappy oversight from our part and frankly I'm a bit embarrassed.

Has he really not been here for three weeks ?

 

[Guts - Yits]

ALL -STATUS UPDATE

Hi all,

All outstanding PMs will be answered by 19:00 CET tomorrow evening, I have to take care of some operational task over the next hour, and want to get out of the office after that. To outline:

1. PMs - sorry it's not great from my part - I was abroad for 5 days, and now we have a massive and labour-intensive Easter promo live and a new team starter who needs training and attention.

2. The good news is that this new starter, once basically trained and familiarized, will allow for an additional rep - either on my login (we'll update the names accordingly in that scenario) or on a separate one. I would prefer the first option, so that we both receive messages and can coordinate, but of course in an ideal world we all have our own individual accounts and logins - the only issue with that is that we will not be able to know what the other account has or has not received and handled, making for a harder process. Either way, the idea is that there will be less delays and lags, and more consistent casino rep coverage.

3. Once the 2nd rep is on board, we'll announce a very generous CM Guts promo. Regardless of what may be the case, I'm pretty certain all involved will be able to enjoy it and benefit from it.

Kindest regards to all for now,

Yits

 

[dionysus]

Cheers, thanks for the replies.
I'm sure a second rep would be welcome.

 

[Jono777]

I'm sure I will need no introductions

 

[mac72]

Hi mac82 - can you outline to me please in a single, simplified post what it is you are requesting of me? This all happened way, way before my time at Guts and it's not 100% clear to me what you are requesting? I cannot access the EM game-round-specific data without requesting it especially from them (although it would be forthcoming if requested, I'm certain), and according to the original game logs you posted you did indeed breach terms, albeit ever so slightly which may have been harshly interpreted by whoever took the decision to enforce these terms. As I originally stated it might not necessarily be the approach I would have taken - but I again stress that I had nothing to do with it.

So, once again, state in clear terms what you are seeking please so I do not need to skim through this thread in its entirety and assemble it as that invariably causes me to miss one or more aspects of the development? If it is confirmation that enforcement was overly harsh - then yes I agree with you, and they could have perhaps extended your wagering a bit or given you a last chance warning to please avoid it in the future.

If it is compensation you seek - outline it kindly.

And yes, I do not take chats via the customer service tool if at all possible - I will on occasion help them when they are slammed, simply because there are too many chats in the queue, but it is a rare occurrence. I am constantly working and incessantly behind on operational tasks, last night I was setting up bonuses at 02:00 AM, after having worked the entire weekend to keep the Easter Trivia promo stable and address all bugfixes. CS are there to take your chats. It is not because I "feel too good" for it - it is because I do not have the time, and otherwise there would be no promos, no free spins, no new games, no bonuses, no offers, no new functionalities etc...

That is not snobbery, it is common sense.

Having said that, I am looking internally for a solution to this CM absence that I occasionally fall into - I will soon announce an additional rep either sharing my login or setting up his own - we shall then rotate CM coverage shifts, because I am conscious of the fact that I sometimes go awol and need to find a solution that more suits the fair fulfillment of legitimate CM contacts and gripes. I apologise sncerely to all legitimate contacts who have been kept waiting.

I kindly await your public response, and shall answer it tomorrow by 19:00 CET.

Respectfully,

Yits

Firstly you make reference to "legitimate CM contacts and gripes". I'm seeing that as a dig that i may not be "legitimate" but please advise if i have read that wrong. You also make a further reference apologising to "all legitimate contacts who have been kept waiting" and that would seem to reinforce my view that this isn't directed at me as this response was directed at me to begin with.

I didn't realise you were the "main man". Now the fact that you are and the fact that in your follow up pm's to me you talked about my "winnings being voided" and i had to correct you (which had you read the thread correctly wouldn't have happened,my name is mac72 by the way not mac82) and explain i actually wasn't at any financial loss just shows me the care and attention that is taken with these matters,indeed from the outset.

What relevance is it to me or any customer what time you are up to dealing with matters within your own company (you get renumeration for it, you neither need praise or a medal) and if without you there would be no "promos, no free spins, no new games, no bonuses, no offers, no new functionalities etc..." then your business is either a garden shed operation or it is a large enterprise with way too much focus on one person's abilities.

Had you read the thread correctly you would of established that i didn't give a toss about what happened historically with Guts/Betspin and had i gone onto Rizk and been refused an account there wouldn't have been a word about it.The fact that i had started to play there after full disclosure and "the CEO" authorising my account and not once but twice thereafter had my account closed due to the issues that the CEO had signed off on is what concerned me. What if i had had a 20k withdrawal pending during one of these closures,would i have been paid??? These are the things that quite rightly go through my mind.

As the "main man" who is "short of time" all the time you have now:
i) PM'd me 3 times
ii) Had at least one meeting with Captain Rizk about my "case"

After all this the position is that YOU are asking ME what i want? You have achieved not one step forward as yet in weeks.

At this stage i'd want the people who are backing GUTS financially to be asking themselves what the hell you are doing with your time

Anybody in your position should of identified quite quickly all that was needed for me was a simple assurance that i wouldn't run into any further issues with my RIZK account and having reviewed the GUTS logs and the GUTS chat i think an apology was in order ONLY because your chat rep told me it was ok that should of been the end of it.Had the chat rep told me at the time "you broke the rules thats it" i would have accepted it no questions asked.

Actually that poses a question for you to answer if you wish :
If a Chat Representative confirms something to a player on GUTS/BETSPIN?RIZK can that be relied upon or can that assurance simply be overridden again? If the answer is that chat can be relied on why close my account,it was an honest mistake one you could of enforced at the point of asking. Why this has run into such a mess is the inconsistency "its ok", "account closed" , "account refused at Betspin" , "Account opened with CEO approval at RIZK" , "Account closed" , "Account opened" , "Account closed", "Account opened" its just a complete clusterfuck!!

So in closing for my friend Triliej can you just confirm if this is a true statement:
"My account was closed at Guts due to one overbet of £8 resulting in an £8 loss on my account ,there was no gain from this overbet and i immediately spoke to CS about it and was assured by them it was an honest mistake and not to worry about it. I was denied the benefit of the other 2 parts of the Welcome Bonus at Guts due to the closure.
I was subsequently denied an account at Betspin due again to the £8 overbet which was information i provided full disclosure on when asking to open an account.
An account was then opened for me with CEO approval at RIZK and closed TWICE thereafter due to the overbet at GUTS despite again full disclosure at the point of opening by me"

According to Triliej nobody should judge you without knowing the full story.As far as i'm concerned the above is the full story,should you wish to add to it by all means do so. You see according to Triliej i am trying to give you a bad reputation but the above is all i have ever said so it follows that if the above can give you a bad reputation and it is all true with nothing left out then all you have done is earn a bad reputation (Her words not mine) all on your own.

 

[The Dude]

Well, one thing I can say - Mac72 - you're acting like a real jerk. Knock it off.

For one thing, I could barely get through your initial post - copies of chats, etc., what the hell? Get to the freaking point? Who has time to read all of that?

How about - "I have a problem. This is what it is (one sentence). Can anyone give me advice?"

And when you posted this, I just gave up on the thread:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...groups-and-operators-linked-by-licence.72160/

What the hell is that supposed to prove? Do you think that anyone is going to actually read that garbage?

And throughout this thread you've been disrespectful towards your fellow members and the iGaming reps. This will not be tolerated.

So in essence, chill out, and let the casino reps decipher what your problem is. Let them do their jobs, and give you an answer. Thank you.

 

[Webzcas]

I'm not going to trawl through the entire thread, as I do not have the time or frankly the inclination to do so. But I will throw in my two cents worth from myself as a player.

Guts have been a great casino for me to play at. They are extremely fast payers ( 24 hr from when I hit withdraw to when funds hit my bank account ) and the only time I had an issue, it was resolved extremely quickly and more importantly acted upon.

I see the rep here is involved in this thread. If there is an area where the casino is proven to be at fault, I have every confidence Guts will resolve it.

So far, I have nothing but praise for them.

 

[mac72]

Well, one thing I can say - Mac72 - you're acting like a real jerk. Knock it off.

For one thing, I could barely get through your initial post - copies of chats, etc., what the hell? Get to the freaking point? Who has time to read all of that?

How about - "I have a problem. This is what it is (one sentence). Can anyone give me advice?"

And when you posted this, I just gave up on the thread:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...groups-and-operators-linked-by-licence.72160/

What the hell is that supposed to prove? Do you think that anyone is going to actually read that garbage?

And throughout this thread you've been disrespectful towards your fellow members and the iGaming reps. This will not be tolerated.

So in essence, chill out, and let the casino reps decipher what your problem is. Let them do their jobs, and give you an answer. Thank you.

I think my initial post was very well laid out and made a very clear point as the title suggested.

As is always the case we have the usual suspects who always query "are we getting the full story" which is why i showed the gameplay in its entireity, to remove any ambiguity (and pointed out in bold so no-one would have to go through it all where the £8 infraction occured). That is what it proved - that there was one bet over the max which was then forgiven and then went on to cause all this mess.

I waited for an answer and after weeks what i got back from YITS in public was "what do you want" (i had already communicated with him 3 times by PM and by his own admission he had a meeting with Captain Rizk so what exactly could they discuss if he didn't know the answer to question he has just had to ask)

The Jerk's (to coin your phrase) in this scenario are GUTS/BETSPIN/RIZK. If the infraction at GUTS was that major the correct response at that time was to say so on the live chat, i broke the rules that was it done.
Instead after forgiving the infraction they then closed the account - i point out i wasn't on here posting about that i fully respect that decision.

Then BETSPIN refused an account over the same £8 bet - i point out i wasn't on here posting about that i fully respect that decision.

Then RIZK opened an account after full disclosure and after their CEO rubber stamping it and TWICE since opening have they closed it and my issue is at any of these points when the account was closed there could have been major money in play, luckily there was not - HENCE the title of my thread about the problems dealing with connected companies and the potential for disaster.

I am well aware of exactly what YITS response to me yesterday was all about : The innuendo that there are "legitimate CM contacts" (so there must be illegitimate ones , strange as he himself thanked the original post) the use of the two letters TONY gave him ( i will break the suspense for you YITS the second letter when you open it says "sit down and write two letters") and the fact that after a fortnight he is not reading any of the communication properly - he is giving answers to questions that were never asked and therefore drawing this whole thing out.

He cannot decipher my problem Brian if he does not bother to read the initial post correctly, he has wasted my time and his. If he wants to publish his PM's to me it should be blatantly obvious that is the case.
I have in effect given him the answer in my last post, what i believe was the right course of action , or maybe that is just garbage

 

[Captain Rizk]

Actually that poses a question for you to answer if you wish :
If a Chat Representative confirms something to a player on GUTS/BETSPIN?RIZK can that be relied upon or can that assurance simply be overridden again? If the answer is that chat can be relied on why close my account,it was an honest mistake one you could of enforced at the point of asking. Why this has run into such a mess is the inconsistency "its ok", "account closed" , "account refused at Betspin" , "Account opened with CEO approval at RIZK" , "Account closed" , "Account opened" , "Account closed", "Account opened" its just a complete clusterfuck!!

OK I have to bring this to a close from a Rizk point of view and answer all of these questions clearly and transparently. Yes your account did get closed incorrectly after the CEO had approved its opening, since then procedures have been brought in to make sure this doesnt happen again. Furthermore you were given further confirmation from me that there was no problem with your account. So for these errors I apologise on behalf of Rizk unresevedly.

I helped you on a number of occasions throughout your registration and welcome bonus that you did clear and were able to withdraw and refunded the incorrect withdrawal fees for your account and I can categorically confirm that even had you had any winnings at that point then you absolutely would have been paid AND your account reopened once we realised the mistake.

Your account with Rizk remains open and you are more than welcome to play with us any time you choose as I believe that you did just a couple of days ago.

 

[mac72]

OK I have to bring this to a close from a Rizk point of view and answer all of these questions clearly and transparently. Yes your account did get closed incorrectly after the CEO had approved its opening, since then procedures have been brought in to make sure this doesnt happen again. Furthermore you were given further confirmation from me that there was no problem with your account. So for these errors I apologise on behalf of Rizk unresevedly.

I helped you on a number of occasions throughout your registration and welcome bonus that you did clear and were able to withdraw and refunded the incorrect withdrawal fees for your account and I can categorically confirm that even had you had any winnings at that point then you absolutely would have been paid AND your account reopened once we realised the mistake.

Your account with Rizk remains open and you are more than welcome to play with us any time you choose as I believe that you did just a couple of days ago.

Thank you, that is all i need to know and ever did need to know from RIZK. It is exactly because i might wish to play at your site that after 2 account closures i needed the reassurance.You have given it,that is fine

 

[The Dude]

@Mac72

I disagree that your initial post was straightforward. The title is not clear, and you should have summarized the chat script. Personally, I eschew reading chat transcripts unless they read like this.
https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2009/

A word of advice, when posting complaints be very concise and to the point. The people who are assigned these complaints - to include myself and Max (when they are submitted) have only a certain amount of time to get through them. If you want to have a conversations about something, that's fine, but when you want something to get done, you need to be focused. No one mentioned anything to me about casino reps not logging in until yesterday - after this thread was three weeks old.

 

[mac72]

@Mac72

I disagree that your initial post was straightforward. The title is not clear, and you should have summarized the chat script. Personally, I eschew reading chat transcripts unless they read like this.
https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2009/

A word of advice, when posting complaints be very concise and to the point. The people who are assigned these complaints - to include myself and Max (when they are submitted) have only a certain amount of time to get through them. If you want to have a conversations about something, that's fine, but when you want something to get done, you need to be focused. No one mentioned anything to me about casino reps not logging in until yesterday - after this thread was three weeks old.

The best of it is Brian it wasn't even supposed to really be about GUTS/BETSPIN/RIZK , it was supposed to be about the abundance of linked sites now and how anyone is supposed to make sense of it all and i was just trying to lay out clearly one issue i had as an example but in the context of the wider issue which i thought would be the focus of the discussion.
There are issues all over the forum re linked properties and its just all becoming too much like hard work trying to decipher who your playing with.

 

[mac72]

I've just been reading another thread on ALLBRITISH and a player who could never win because he breached the max bet rule and the readership here seem to be consistent in the view that if he couldn't win he should have his deposit back.

So the situation we have at GUTS is that i breached the max bet rule, their chat then said it was fine and i continued on but given subsequent events is it fair to assume that had i won i would have been paid??? Was i in effect gambling with no chance of winning?
It is obvious to me that the overbet was seen as a serious breach , i emailed tony numerous times on it trying to get to the bottom of it but they wouldn't move from their position.
This was never the purpose of the thread but given what i've read this morning maybe i would be justified in asking for my deposit back. If this post gets 10 "thanks" or more i will ask for it, if not i won't so its down to you guys.

 

[Guts - Yits]

This is a matter we discussed earlier and that was addressed. Hands were held up regarding problems, legit feedback was taken and fed through for development and UX enhancements and and players affected were refunded (one with long delays though, major screw-up on our part)

For now, regarding the abundance of linked sites I suggest dropping a quick line to CS departments, asking them whether you need to be aware of anything of this nature and explaining why you wish to know. Hopefully, they would be able to answer you and assist you accordingly, as they should.

This is most certainly a legitimate concern, and it has been a worthwhile and necessary discussion all around. Although there were troubles associated with the affair, I look back on it as a positive learning experience which served to drive us and casinos in general to improve.

The best of it is Brian it wasn't even supposed to really be about GUTS/BETSPIN/RIZK , it was supposed to be about the abundance of linked sites now and how anyone is supposed to make sense of it all and i was just trying to lay out clearly one issue i had as an example but in the context of the wider issue which i thought would be the focus of the discussion.
There are issues all over the forum re linked properties and its just all becoming too much like hard work trying to decipher who your playing with.

 

[Guts - Yits]

Hi mac82 - to back up Captain Rizk, you are welcome to have an account with Guts too - albeit one restricted from reload bonuses but allowing for free spins eligibility due to the fact that some notes I have dug up from back in the days this happened to you that the decision was also based on apparent links to other accounts to maximise the use of available bonuses.

Now please BEFORE you go ballistic at my statement above let me once again outline - I do not know whether it is accurate or not - I am just stating information that I am receiving. It might well even be inaccurate, as I mentioned was well before my time, on a different gaming platform - I did not make nor assess these decisions.

I have one question please: Did you, or did you not get your bonused deposit refunded by Guts when your account was closed and winnings were confiscated due to breach of terms? That is something tangible I can address and look into with pleasure. I gather more or less that you didn't lose your deposit as such, but in later posts you mention the right for a refund in these scenarios so it has left me wondering.

I ask you to please keep the answer simple, and for the love of God I beg you to calm down somewhat. There are people dying and suffering in this world, people blown to smithereens from Brussels to Mogadishu and Aleppo to Cuidad Juarez. Please maintain some sort of perspective regarding the relative severity of matters being discussed here.

And yes - regarding the legitimacy insinuation - these back and forths and constant posts with various temperament levels are not always fully legitimate requests or inquiries IMO - they may have started that way but degenerated into downright anarchy. Sorry. When I look at your recent post (one of a great many), with your reference to "2 letters from Tony..." (although I get the deeper reference, which i quite dig) I must say that it comes across as somewhat surreal...if you cannot see that then I'm frankly mystified.

I DO respect you, and you can have an account with Guts as stated - but just tone it down, please.

Hope this makes sense.

Respectfully,

Yits

I've just been reading another thread on ALLBRITISH and a player who could never win because he breached the max bet rule and the readership here seem to be consistent in the view that if he couldn't win he should have his deposit back.

So the situation we have at GUTS is that i breached the max bet rule, their chat then said it was fine and i continued on but given subsequent events is it fair to assume that had i won i would have been paid??? Was i in effect gambling with no chance of winning?
It is obvious to me that the overbet was seen as a serious breach , i emailed tony numerous times on it trying to get to the bottom of it but they wouldn't move from their position.
This was never the purpose of the thread but given what i've read this morning maybe i would be justified in asking for my deposit back. If this post gets 10 "thanks" or more i will ask for it, if not i won't so its down to you guys.

 

[mac72]

Hi mac82 - to back up Captain Rizk, you are welcome to have an account with Guts too - albeit one restricted from reload bonuses but allowing for free spins eligibility due to the fact that some notes I have dug up from back in the days this happened to you that the decision was also based on apparent links to other accounts to maximise the use of available bonuses.

Now please BEFORE you go ballistic at my statement above let me once again outline - I do not know whether it is accurate or not - I am just stating information that I am receiving. It might well even be inaccurate, as I mentioned was well before my time, on a different gaming platform - I did not make nor assess these decisions.

I have one question please: Did you, or did you not get your bonused deposit refunded by Guts when your account was closed and winnings were confiscated due to breach of terms? That is something tangible I can address and look into with pleasure. I gather more or less that you didn't lose your deposit as such, but in later posts you mention the right for a refund in these scenarios so it has left me wondering.

I ask you to please keep the answer simple, and for the love of God I beg you to calm down somewhat. There are people dying and suffering in this world, people blown to smithereens from Brussels to Mogadishu and Aleppo to Cuidad Juarez. Please maintain some sort of perspective regarding the relative severity of matters being discussed here.

And yes - regarding the legitimacy insinuation - these back and forths and constant posts with various temperament levels are not always fully legitimate requests or inquiries IMO - they may have started that way but degenerated into downright anarchy. Sorry. When I look at your recent post (one of a great many), with your reference to "2 letters from Tony..." (although I get the deeper reference, which i quite dig) I must say that it comes across as somewhat surreal...if you cannot see that then I'm frankly mystified.

I DO respect you, and you can have an account with Guts as stated - but just tone it down, please.

Hope this makes sense.

Respectfully,

Yits

The only thing i want to say to that is please "provide the links to other accounts to maximise the use of available bonuses". If your saying they are linked to me i give you my authority to publicly post all the data pertaining to them: full name,address,phone numbers,emails the lot.
Your saying your not even sure its right but you feel the need to put it out there and create the assumption of guilt.

edit: Sorry i can't leave it at that and i had to write the above response quickly and then move away from the computer as you could of got the full blown version of this,this is the watered down version now:

DONT YOU DARE try and use the deaths of those poor people today in Brussels or anywhere else for that matter to try and deflect away from the fact you guys made a right fucking balls up a year ago and compounded it lately through RIZK.
DONT lecture someone who spent the first 25years of his life living in a conflict zone and burying friends and family members regularly on getting perspective on anything.I know all about the killin and the dyin and it has nothing to do with this discussion.

You have come back asking questions of me that have already been answered in the thread, you have negated to answer questions that were put directly to you and then you come with this passive agressive bullshit of "hey i got passed some info you may be a bonus abuser , not sure just saying!" . So you would have me and the readership believe that you carry out some sort of half baked analysis of people you suspect are trying to have you over but don't really keep any proper records and if such people turn up a year or so later at another brand you are involved with , hey why not let them play now.Pull the other one Yits it has bells on.And i'm done now i'm starting to get worked up again

 

[Adam Randall]

Holy shit, this thread was good reading.

It makes me realise how far up the backside of the casinos many here are.

This dude came in with a completely normal concern, was polite & respectful. I do not know anyone on this thread in the least so am impartial here. He was needled with underhanded and subtle digs to get a rise out of him all the way along from the start to the end and he kept his cool better than I would have.

This should be used as an example of exactly how customer service should not be handled, almost takes my breath away.

The guy gives bullet proof evidence that he did everything right, was told by the casino chat it was all good then finds his account closed with zero warning, abhorent and abysmal behaviour of not even extending the courtesy of an email.

Worse than that is he is then made to feel like the one in the wrong like some sort of weird twilight zone. It demonstrates this place is far from an impartial place where honest assessments of casino behaviour are spoken about because this behaviour is indefensible.

Give the man an answer, why did it take 8 pages, he was not looking for any handouts, he did not really even care about why it happened.
He was taking his experience and making a post about it so that it may help others out which is exactly what a forum is supposed to be about, it is not about a bunch of sycophants behaving as a casinos lapdog.

Still an entertaining read and proof that people can spin something anyway they want.

***Also I have read the playbook with regard to mindf*cking someone who is calm reasonable and rational, Rule one is always to ask them to stop being so irrational I see that this rule was enacted a number of times & with some degree of success as the poor guy seems to have blown a gasget at the end.

I did cringe at the face saving part where the rep wanted to on one hand offer him an account so he looked like he was doing the right thing but then packaged up with the barb of having restrictions on it.........

These are mind tricks that would make military psych ops proud..

 

[The Dude]

Holy shit, this thread was good reading.

It makes me realise how far up the backside of the casinos many here are.

This dude came in with a completely normal concern, was polite & respectful. I do not know anyone on this thread in the least so am impartial here. He was needled with underhanded and subtle digs to get a rise out of him all the way along from the start to the end and he kept his cool better than I would have.

This should be used as an example of exactly how customer service should not be handled, almost takes my breath away.

The guy gives bullet proof evidence that he did everything right, was told by the casino chat it was all good then finds his account closed with zero warning, abhorent and abysmal behaviour of not even extending the courtesy of an email.

Worse than that is he is then made to feel like the one in the wrong like some sort of weird twilight zone. It demonstrates this place is far from an impartial place where honest assessments of casino behaviour are spoken about because this behaviour is indefensible.

Give the man an answer, why did it take 8 pages, he was not looking for any handouts, he did not really even care about why it happened.
He was taking his experience and making a post about it so that it may help others out which is exactly what a forum is supposed to be about, it is not about a bunch of sycophants behaving as a casinos lapdog.

Still an entertaining read and proof that people can spin something anyway they want.

***Also I have read the playbook with regard to mindf*cking someone who is calm reasonable and rational, Rule one is always to ask them to stop being so irrational I see that this rule was enacted a number of times & with some degree of success as the poor guy seems to have blown a gasget at the end.

I did cringe at the face saving part where the rep wanted to on one hand offer him an account so he looked like he was doing the right thing but then packaged up with the barb of having restrictions on it.........

These are mind tricks that would make military psych ops proud..

You do realize that this thread has been dormant for over a year. And it's pretty much evident that Yits - the former casino manager - lost interest to managing the forum responses and pretty much let this go to shit. So I don't get why you are implying that people here have their heads up the casino's asses. Pretty trollish in my opinion.

Why don't you read up on a current thread concerning Guts etc. instead of rehashing the old?

 

[Adam Randall]

Trolling is a term misused so much, trolls will use any trick in the book to get a negative reaction from others and it matters little what they actually believe as their entire focus is on the negative reaction. For me, I actually believe what I write & ideally I prefer people to be in agreement with me rather than against, still it does not stop me saying what is my true thoughts on a subject.

I am not sure exactly how I ended up on that post, I knew it was an old post and yet it provided me with some light reading the was very interesting. I read the entire 8 or 9 pages and after that is when I began to form my opinion followed shortly by my post.

You may well post something that I agree with in the next post and if you do then I will not shy away from that fact. Everyone is different. This place must also walk a tightrope between players and casinos. On the one hand I am sure this place earns money from the casinos & yet on the other has to be critical. Not an easy position to be in.

I have never understood why people are critical of others replying to old posts because if the post is relevant to me then it matters little how old it was. It was a topical post that I thought demonstrated quite a serious level of unfairness.

The guy was the walking billboard for calm and reasonable from the start. Do people think that others cannot see what is being done in these instances & how transparent the bias is?

 

[Tirilej]

Trolling is a term misused so much, trolls will use any trick in the book to get a negative reaction from others and it matters little what they actually believe as their entire focus is on the negative reaction. For me, I actually believe what I write & ideally I prefer people to be in agreement with me rather than against, still it does not stop me saying what is my true thoughts on a subject.

I am not sure exactly how I ended up on that post, I knew it was an old post and yet it provided me with some light reading the was very interesting. I read the entire 8 or 9 pages and after that is when I began to form my opinion followed shortly by my post.

You may well post something that I agree with in the next post and if you do then I will not shy away from that fact. Everyone is different. This place must also walk a tightrope between players and casinos. On the one hand I am sure this place earns money from the casinos & yet on the other has to be critical. Not an easy position to be in.

I have never understood why people are critical of others replying to old posts because if the post is relevant to me then it matters little how old it was. It was a topical post that I thought demonstrated quite a serious level of unfairness.

The guy was the walking billboard for calm and reasonable from the start. Do people think that others cannot see what is being done in these instances & how transparent the bias is?

It's not the first time you're making a post without knowing enough to make those kinds of judgements that you do. The same happened here and you had just been a member for 2 weeks. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/karumba-casino-vs-aspirepleyford.79983/

The thing with this thread is that you have no idea what was said in other threads, and I guess you never checked if there were more threads started later about the same subject either.
Maybe the OP doesn't even want the thread to be digged up again since he's not allowed to discuss it more in the forum.
It's fine to have opinions but it should feel better if you knew a bit more before you judged this place and its members, or the casinos.

 

[colinsunderland]

Trolling is a term misused so much, trolls will use any trick in the book to get a negative reaction from others and it matters little what they actually believe as their entire focus is on the negative reaction. For me, I actually believe what I write & ideally I prefer people to be in agreement with me rather than against, still it does not stop me saying what is my true thoughts on a subject.

I am not sure exactly how I ended up on that post, I knew it was an old post and yet it provided me with some light reading the was very interesting. I read the entire 8 or 9 pages and after that is when I began to form my opinion followed shortly by my post.

You may well post something that I agree with in the next post and if you do then I will not shy away from that fact. Everyone is different. This place must also walk a tightrope between players and casinos. On the one hand I am sure this place earns money from the casinos & yet on the other has to be critical. Not an easy position to be in.

I have never understood why people are critical of others replying to old posts because if the post is relevant to me then it matters little how old it was. It was a topical post that I thought demonstrated quite a serious level of unfairness.

The guy was the walking billboard for calm and reasonable from the start. Do people think that others cannot see what is being done in these instances & how transparent the bias is?

Why haven't you updated your complaint thread yet like you said you would?

 

[The Dude]

Trolling is a term misused so much, trolls will use any trick in the book to get a negative reaction from others and it matters little what they actually believe as their entire focus is on the negative reaction. For me, I actually believe what I write & ideally I prefer people to be in agreement with me rather than against, still it does not stop me saying what is my true thoughts on a subject.

Well, it's not being misused here. I have been running this forum for nearly two decades, and I know trollish posts when I see them.

I am not sure exactly how I ended up on that post, I knew it was an old post and yet it provided me with some light reading the was very interesting. I read the entire 8 or 9 pages and after that is when I began to form my opinion followed shortly by my post.

Stay alert - stay alive. Keep an eye on what the date was from the last post - and see if there are other threads that are more up-to-date. There is no automated system here that closes dormant threads - i.e. those that have not been posted to for over a year.

And one of your conclusions was that so many people have their heads up the asses of the casinos. That is pretty much a troll post in my opinion.

You may well post something that I agree with in the next post and if you do then I will not shy away from that fact. Everyone is different. This place must also walk a tightrope between players and casinos. On the one hand I am sure this place earns money from the casinos & yet on the other has to be critical. Not an easy position to be in.

No tightrope here. It's called proper business ethics, and I have had no problem being ethical - ever. We have removed many casinos from this site for failing to maintain proper standards - some even being thrown in the rogue pit. I have no problem being critical about any casino, and if you had read some of my recent postings concerning Guts, etc., you would have understood this.

If you think this website/forum/ membership is so biased, then why bother being a member? I have always welcomed criticism, mainly because criticism has actually improved this site. But criticism should be coming from a balanced point of view - not biased or passive aggressive. Comprende?

 

[Adam Randall]

any[/B] casino, and if you had read some of my recent postings concerning Guts, etc., you would have understood this.

If you think this website/forum/ membership is so biased, then why bother being a member? I have always welcomed criticism, mainly because criticism has actually improved this site. But criticism should be coming from a balanced point of view - not biased or passive aggressive. Comprende?

I like the forum, that is why I am here but that does not mean I am not going to speak my mind when I feel like it, you may not agree with it and that is ok by me.

Trolling.....we can agree to disagree it is not very important an I explained my view on what a troll is.

As far as never having problems with ethics in business.....yeah right, you have never struggled with a dilema that involved heavily testing your integrity where no matter which way you go, you feel that none of the options are ethical? I have run a business, it was a failure if I am honest but I was faced with many times where every choice was shades of grey.

A business like this would often have decisions being required where neither choice is completely ethical. I learnt a long time ago that the simple black and white world does not exist and there are so many shades of grey that it is not possible to give such a simplified answer


I am not passive agressive, If I have a problem with someone then I tell them. My examples of being critical on this thread are exactly the opposite behaviour of someone that is passive agressive.

 

[Adam Randall]

Why haven't you updated your complaint thread yet like you said you would?

Because I have not spoken to the bank yet, because it is an unpleasant task that I have been putting off because it will suck a lot of my time for at best $100....
Why don't you keep to the topic of this thread or is your objective to attempt to attack me personally about some completely unrelated matter?

Its a weak strategy and it looks unsophisticated to me. Lets stick to the topic of each thread. Pretend there is not an individual person at the end of an opinion and that may help you from spending time attempting to attack the person rather than the topic being discussed?

 

[Borgie]

Because I have not spoken to the bank yet, because it is an unpleasant task that I have been putting off because it will suck a lot of my time for at best $100....
Why don't you keep to the topic of this thread or is your objective to attempt to attack me personally about some completely unrelated matter?

Its a weak strategy and it looks unsophisticated to me. Lets stick to the topic of each thread. Pretend there is not an individual person at the end of an opinion and that may help you from spending time attempting to attack the person rather than the topic being discussed?

I'm sorry but the fact that you have not spoken to the bank yet says to me you know full well that the casino never actually took that money from you.

You not updating that thread means that the Casino are left looking as potential bad guys. I think that suits you for it to look that way.

People on this forum add value by keeping everyone up to date on what goes on with them and casinos - a lot of the time that's good stuff occasionally bad but they update us and the longer they are on the forum the more people get to trust them.

At the moment you are not giving good vibes - you don't want to be called out on your own thread but you are happy to throw stuff out on other peoples , be it year old thread or stuff you've not researched very well .

You are a guest in Bryans house here so afford him the respect he deserves and stop being a pita.

 

[Adam Randall]

I'm sorry but the fact that you have not spoken to the bank yet says to me you know full well that the casino never actually took that money from you.

You not updating that thread means that the Casino are left looking as potential bad guys. I think that suits you for it to look that way.

People on this forum add value by keeping everyone up to date on what goes on with them and casinos - a lot of the time that's good stuff occasionally bad but they update us and the longer they are on the forum the more people get to trust them.

At the moment you are not giving good vibes - you don't want to be called out on your own thread but you are happy to throw stuff out on other peoples , be it year old thread or stuff you've not researched very well .

You are a guest in Bryans house here so afford him the respect he deserves and stop being a pita.

Firstly, apology accepted.

This place is full of others who seem to think they know what is going on and will take the outcome that shows the person in the worst possible light.

Now I have told you why I have not undertaken that task, you have no possible way of knowing my motivation as you do not know me. If you want to think the worst of people then I suppose nobody is going to stop you..........but its a miserable way to go through life & ensures you are wrong most of the time.

This is a forum, I will express my opinion any way I see fit. I have not gotten personal at all and stuck to the topic. Nobody deserves or is entitled to my respect, that gets earned over time. I do however give people the basic courtesies expected when interacting on a forum. I to not call people a piece of sh*t for expressing their opinions.

In short, I made a topical comment on a post that others did not agree with, you should brace yourself because I will continue to speak my opinion and while I realise others revert to tantrums and name calling if they come across others that do not agree, I cannot help them change and frankly I find it amusing.

That is about all I have to say

 

[Adam Randall]

It's not the first time you're making a post without knowing enough to make those kinds of judgements that you do. The same happened here and you had just been a member for 2 weeks. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/karumba-casino-vs-aspirepleyford.79983/

The thing with this thread is that you have no idea what was said in other threads, and I guess you never checked if there were more threads started later about the same subject either.
Maybe the OP doesn't even want the thread to be digged up again since he's not allowed to discuss it more in the forum.
It's fine to have opinions but it should feel better if you knew a bit more before you judged this place and its members, or the casinos.

Let me guess, you are the one who should decide who gets a say and when the line of "knows enough about a topic" is crossed?

I stuck to the thread which made complete logical sense from start to finish and my comments were based directly on the interactions within this thread.

Perhaps the OP is a monster however in his communication with people in this thread alone, in my opinion, he was treated unfairly. I do not need to know the backstory.

 

[ladyhawke]

I stuck to the thread which made complete logical sense from start to finish and my comments were based directly on the interactions within this thread.

And for all of your numerous other 'logical' moments, I give you...

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Adam Randall]

And for all of your numerous other 'logical' moments, I give you...

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

If you are going to have a dig then at least make a clear and concise reason for it.

 

[ladyhawke]

If you are going to have a dig then at least make a clear and concise reason for it.

Not too bright at times, are you?

A re-read of this thread, and your responses, is very illuminating. You have insulted everyone, including Bryan (the Forum owner), under the guise of believing you have the right to say what you like, as "This is a forum, I will express my opinion any way I see fit."

You also state: "Nobody deserves or is entitled to my respect, that gets earned over time."

So let's take a look at some of your little digs:

"it is not about a bunch of sycophants behaving as a casinos lapdog."

"It makes me realise how far up the backside of the casinos many here are."

"It demonstrates this place is far from an impartial place where honest assessments of casino behaviour are spoken about because this behaviour is indefensible."

And let's not forget some of your specific digs aimed at CM members:

"Why don't you keep to the topic of this thread or is your objective to attempt to attack me personally about some completely unrelated matter? Its a weak strategy and it looks unsophisticated to me."

Respect is a two way street, but that logic seems to have bypassed you by. Even though you state "... but that does not mean I am not going to speak my mind when I feel like it, you may not agree with it and that is ok by me", this is patently untrue.

Anyone - and I mean Anyone - who dares to either disagree with you/challenge you gets to feel the full force of your ire, under the guise of simple criticism, e.g. "you should brace yourself because I will continue to speak my opinion and while I realise others revert to tantrums and name calling if they come across others that do not agree, I cannot help them change and frankly I find it amusing."

Your attitude is wrong on so many levels, I find it incomprehensible that you believe your behaviour is "exactly the opposite behaviour of someone that is passive agressive." You just twist and spin...spin...spin whatever is said into something that you can use to undermine and belittle the poster.

I have refrained from any "tantrums and name calling", but trust me, it really has been a challenge.

 

[Tirilej]

Let me guess, you are the one who should decide who gets a say and when the line of "knows enough about a topic" is crossed?

I stuck to the thread which made complete logical sense from start to finish and my comments were based directly on the interactions within this thread.

Perhaps the OP is a monster however in his communication with people in this thread alone, in my opinion, he was treated unfairly. I do not need to know the backstory.

No, but I did give you a few reasons for why you should think before posting in an old thread. Have you ever been able to admit being wrong?

Yes you do need to know the backstory or you shouldn't judge. That goes from every part of your life. It's great to have opinions but what are they worth if you have no clue what you're talking about?

 

[ladyhawke]

No, but I did give you a few reasons for why you should think before posting in an old thread. Have you ever been able to admit being wrong?

Yes you do need to know the backstory or you shouldn't judge. That goes from every part of your life. It's great to have opinions but what are they worth if you have no clue what you're talking about?

Another important point is that using old posts as a raison d'être for attacking a casino is effectively refusing to accept the possibility that casinos are capable of learning from their missteps, and can change for the better, a fact that newer posts would support.

Not always of course, but sometimes.

 

[Tirilej]

Another important point is that using old posts as a raison d'être for attacking a casino is effectively refusing to accept the possibility that casinos are capable of learning from their missteps, and can change for the better, a fact that newer posts would support.

Not always of course, but sometimes.

Absolutely! We're suppose to learn from the past, but move on. The fact that there was another thread started after this one about the same subject makes this even more outdated.
You're thinking a lot like me I was planning to ask Bryan to maybe split these last pages to its own thread since it's more about one persons opinion, and also the fact that it seems very important to tell how bad everyone else behaved back in the thread. I'm so evil

 

[ladyhawke]

Absolutely! We're suppose to learn from the past, but move on. The fact that there was another thread started after this one about the same subject makes this even more outdated.
You're thinking a lot like me I was planning to ask Bryan to maybe split these last pages to its own thread since it's more about one persons opinion, and also the fact that it seems very important to tell how bad everyone else behaved back in the thread. I'm so evil

:notworthy