Grand Privé wants to get out of the Rogue Pit

[tushtush33]

Issue with grandprive non pay

I am going to pitch a bitch now about Villafortuna casino, If they pay me I have nothing against them although what they did to me is far from being nice , They havent paid my winnings

 

[ilovejesus]

hi

another members has not been paid, grand prive said its under new managment and bad guys r gone. it looks like new managment are playing same games ripping players off, i personal think these guy will never ever change i think they just love ripping players of

 

[KasinoKing]

Thirdly there is the issue of the accredited system and how it will impact other companies letting GP back in. I feel it is diluting the Casinomeister brand and what Bryan stands for if he lets these guys back in.

So after voting yes I am now in the no camp! Bryan don't do this! I think it's time to draw a line in the sand over this one. I am not a fan of the affiliate model but surely these guys should be paid their dues or at least a reasonable proportion.

Bryan has NEVER said he is considering making them accredited, just removing them from the Rogue List.
There is an enormous difference in those two things.

KK

 

[baldidiot]

She said that basically the affiliate program was costing them more in administration than it was bringing in, hence the re-vamp. They apparently had the data to demonstrate this for the proposed meeting which did not happen.

This is really worrying - they're saying they decided the aff program wasn't cost effective so just chose to not honour their contracts.

In theory with that attitude if they run a promotion or bonus that they then decide isn't cost effective they'll just screw over all of the players involved.

 

[maxd]

... She told me that she, along with some of the top Grand Prive executive scheduled a meeting with Bryan and others at (I think it was ICE London?) and that the CM people were a no-show. Is this correct Bryan?

If I recall correctly I was with Bryan at the time. We were at the designated meeting place at the scheduled time -- as far as we knew -- but no one came to meet us. Bryan would have called them to find out what was up but his phone battery was dead and he'd forgotten his recharger at home. We had another meeting shortly thereafter so after waiting around for 20 mins or so we moved on. I can't say what took take place after that insofar as the GP meet was concerned.

Bryan has NEVER said he is considering making them accredited, just removing them from the Rogue List.
There is an enormous difference in those two things.

Quite so! Bryan specifically says "de-rogued" and "de-pitified" in the poll. That very clearly means "out of the Rogue Pit" not "onto the Accred list".

 

[Mousey]

I used to play at Grand Prive when they were MG. I played enough, that they kept me on their contact list after the affiliate problems and was taken out for dinner when Kia, a Grand Prive rep from South Africa toured Canada and was in Toronto on the Grand Prive re-launch post MG.

I did not really know all the affiliate problems / history, but she brought it up when we met. She told me that she, along with some of the top Grand Prive executive scheduled a meeting with Bryan and others at (I think it was ICE London?) and that the CM people were a no-show. Is this correct Bryan? She said that basically the affiliate program was costing them more in administration than it was bringing in, hence the re-vamp. They apparently had the data to demonstrate this for the proposed meeting which did not happen.

Obviously, affiliates disagree and I respect their stake- especially the point that Dominique has made that what they owed was relatively small. But if this is true, why did you not honour their meeting and are entertaining their request to consider them getting out of the rogue pit now? Why didn't you give them the opportunity to provide their case and provide a solution?

And, why not allow them to make their case on the forum? Isn't this the time for transparency?

My night out/ dinner with "Kia" was lovely and really focused on everything outside of gambling. I was impressed indeed by her and her human-ness. Don't know if she is still there and I have no interest in whether they are in or out as, aside from the free chips she gave me to try out the games, I have not played since.

It would be remarkable if someone from GP showed their face in this forum and actually posted. Oh, I'm sure they read it. They always have.

But over all the years whenever a very real problem would arise, no one from GP would make comment, or even so much as contact the player, or sign up as casino rep here at Casinomeister. Head in the sand, ya know. They always liked to pretend to be rather 'above it all'.

Are things different now? I don't know. I doubt it. And don't really care. I don't trust them.

 

[colly]

I have mixed feeings on this one. I have never had any issues with grand prive on any of there software - played at lot at casino grand bay when MCG- don't play there now because I don't like the software.

Normally I would say give a chance but with a much extended probation period than usual however having read this thread and seen issues with affs. players, regulating bodies and software providers I would vote no untill

1) former issues are cleared
2) Management responsible for the decisions that led to the above is changed

In its current state I would have to vote no. We have seen this "reform promises" before Ex WOL members may remember the virtual groups promises of reform and chances given (and subsequenr screwover of players). Unless they are prepared to take full responsibility for the past actions (and it appears they aren't) then they should stay rogued.

An alternative (don't know if it's possible) is to leave them in the pit and put them on extended. extended probation with the possibility of deroguing if they fix issues and maintain standards over a long haul period. If they agree to that then there is some possibility intent is genuine rather than a quick fix.

 

[dominique]

I used to play at Grand Prive when they were MG. I played enough, that they kept me on their contact list after the affiliate problems and was taken out for dinner when Kia, a Grand Prive rep from South Africa toured Canada and was in Toronto on the Grand Prive re-launch post MG.

I did not really know all the affiliate problems / history, but she brought it up when we met. She told me that she, along with some of the top Grand Prive executive scheduled a meeting with Bryan and others at (I think it was ICE London?) and that the CM people were a no-show. Is this correct Bryan? She said that basically the affiliate program was costing them more in administration than it was bringing in, hence the re-vamp. They apparently had the data to demonstrate this for the proposed meeting which did not happen.

Obviously, affiliates disagree and I respect their stake- especially the point that Dominique has made that what they owed was relatively small. But if this is true, why did you not honour their meeting and are entertaining their request to consider them getting out of the rogue pit now? Why didn't you give them the opportunity to provide their case and provide a solution?

And, why not allow them to make their case on the forum? Isn't this the time for transparency?

My night out/ dinner with "Kia" was lovely and really focused on everything outside of gambling. I was impressed indeed by her and her human-ness. Don't know if she is still there and I have no interest in whether they are in or out as, aside from the free chips she gave me to try out the games, I have not played since.

I did meet with them in Vegas last fall. I saw a bunch of correspondence. The correspondence was between them and Microgaming, and it pretty much showed that Microgaming was responsible for the big mess that happened years back when they switched to a new platform, from Referspot to Grand Prive. It showed nothing about when they decided to ditch affiliates.

The talks went well and I came away thinking that things would be solved and even made a positive post at AGD about it.

But - very little happened. A few affs were paid settlements, others not.

This meeting came a couple years after the fact, and now it's been almost another 6 months and nothing happened. And I guess they are not planning for anything else to happen or they likely would have finished settling before approaching Bryan.

 

[BingoT]

I say from the get go before this poll some Rep from Grand Prive should of came here and told the membership here.
Instead they are lurking around looking at what is said here and saying jack...^&(*(.
I say state your case & lets get things on track.
& the first issue is Pay everyone off that is due to them.
Thanks
~T~

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Bryan has NEVER said he is considering making them accredited, just removing them from the Rogue List.
There is an enormous difference in those two things.

KK

Ta for the correction got my probation and baptism by fire mixed up in my enthusiasm last night .

I am still going 'NO' though even though I oroginally voted 'YES'.

 

[Luckylizzy]

I think everyone deserves the chance to redeem themselves- even Grande Prive' casinos which I've heard have royally screwed things up in the past. If they cannot do better, than they won't get out of the pit anyhow so I voted yes.

Maybe I'm just a forgiving person, and maybe its because I don't know enough about the past and what they have done, but I like to think that businesses can learn from their mistakes and make the necessary changes to better themselves and repair the damage.

 

[lots0]

If I recall correctly I was with Bryan at the time. We were at the designated meeting place at the scheduled time -- as far as we knew -- but no one came to meet us. Bryan would have called them to find out what was up but his phone battery was dead and he'd forgotten his recharger at home. We had another meeting shortly thereafter so after waiting around for 20 mins or so we moved on. I can't say what took take place after that insofar as the GP meet was concerned.



Quite so! Bryan specifically says "de-rogued" and "de-pitified" in the poll. That very clearly means "out of the Rogue Pit" not "onto the Accred list".

If memory serves, I remember a couple of years ago when GP invited Bryan to come to costa rica (all expenses paid) and Bryan turned them down, that Bryan is a perdy smart guy...

I personally missed the point about the Accreded list.
So I am sure others did as well. Might want to spell it out for those of us that are a little slower...

 

[LOOKAWAY]

Lets face it, Grand Prive set a date to contact Bryan to be put out the Rogue Pit before they even screwed there affiliates over. That's how business works!!

I hate it in life when this happens, they new what would happen and now they have to face the consequences. NO LET OFF!!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Lets face it, Grand Prive set a date to contact Bryan to be put out the Rogue Pit before they even screwed there affiliates over. That's how business works!!

I hate it in life when this happens, they new what would happen and now they have to face the consequences. NO LET OFF!!

I doubt they have this level of intelligent forward planning, otherwise they would not have kicked affiliates to the curb in the first place.

I suspect they went for "short term gain" by closing the affiliate operation, but hanging on to the players. This allowed them to renege on the lifetime commission deal, yet STILL make profit from the players. They made quite a few moves to disguise this, the first being to directly contact players telling them the LIE that the main 5 casinos would close soon, and to move their play to Villa Fortuna. This then allowed them to "prove" that the players referred by the affiliates had deserted in droves, and justified the closure of the scheme. They also fooled eCogra, because the data used in the investigation referred to the 5 original casinos, which the earlier move had stripped of many active players, hence the startlingly low amounts owing at the end of it. Requests to widen the scope of the calculations from eCogra were stonewalled, because GP realised that the "Villa Fortuna trick" might emerge, and inflate the sums owing.
The whole thing was driven by them thinking why they should pay affiliates around 30% of the profits from the players, when they could avoid this by cutting them out, and marketing directly. In the short term analysis, this was a profitable move, and in the short term, it worked.

GP didn't think that "short term gain" is often followed by "long term pain". The aches started when the affiliates did NOT just "walk away", but fought on for a fair deal. GP didn't consider that these affiliates would then start to work AGAINST them as a punishment for the thorough screwing they received. This lead to GP being added to a number of rogue pits (including this one), which eventually ensured that much of the information available on the internet about them was negative. With no affiliates, there was NO balancing information showing them in a positive light, as would be the case when affiliates try to ensure that the casinos they promote are attractive to players.

Finally, they learn that this was a big mistake, and that they CANNOT prosper without the affiliate community on their side, so they come crawling back hoping for forgiveness. Considering this was mostly a screwing over of AFFILIATES, rather than players, the fact that this poll has gone so much against them being let out of the pit shows just HOW deep seated the negativity has become.

Things have not been helped by the fact that they made further mistakes trying to turn things around, which has made them look VERY bad indeed. The screwing over of the Kahnawake and Microgaming demonstrates to others that they have no fear of screwing ANYONE, let alone the poor humble player. It also makes players think that if they again face trouble from their licensing jurisdiction, they will simply bail again, rather than stick to the rules.

 

[funeral979]

I think the whole issue of GP screwing over affiliates has been well documented, but I would like a little more information on how some players were screwed over (not saying that one is worse than the other).

There are a few players here who say they are still owed money by them. Can someone direct me to a thread or elaborate on what issues caused GP to not pay certain players? Thanks!

 

[jod5413]

I think the whole issue of GP screwing over affiliates has been well documented, but I would like a little more information on how some players were screwed over (not saying that one is worse than the other).

There are a few players here who say they are still owed money by them. Can someone direct me to a thread or elaborate on what issues caused GP to not pay certain players? Thanks!

definition of LAZY

a : disinclined to activity or exertion : not energetic or vigorous b : encouraging inactivity or indolence <a lazy summer day>
2: moving slowly : sluggish


definition of IGNORANT

ig·no·rant adj \ˈig-n(ə-)rənt\
1a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>

What you asked for is more info on the issue to learn more about what happened.

That makes you NOT lazy and NOT ignorant.

See, I was not bad mouthing folks, just telling it as I saw it. And there ya go.

 

[funeral979]

definition of LAZY

a : disinclined to activity or exertion : not energetic or vigorous b : encouraging inactivity or indolence <a lazy summer day>
2: moving slowly : sluggish


definition of IGNORANT

ig·no·rant adj \ˈig-n(ə-)rənt\
1a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>

What you asked for is more info on the issue to learn more about what happened.

That makes you NOT lazy and NOT ignorant.

See, I was not bad mouthing folks, just telling it as I saw it. And there ya go.

(lazy post, I know)

 

[jod5413]

See, you do get it!!!

And no, it is not lazy!!!

 

[skywalker]

My thoughts

Well I have played there recently a couple of times and from what I've seen the slots have got worse. You can spin all day and never hit nothing not even the triggered features. My opinion is they only wish to be out long enough to gain money and then start their mess all over again or because they know the way the slots are situated now , no one will ever win much.

 

[footdr]

What were the circumstances ........

They scammed me for over $1000.


NO FREAKING WAY!!!!

Once rogue...... ALWAYS ROGUE!!!!

Did they "scam you" recently? Why?

Can you be more specific please?

 

[maxd]

I personally missed the point about the Accreded list.
So I am sure others did as well. Might want to spell it out for those of us that are a little slower...

Sorry, not sure I understand what you mean.

If you are referring to this:

Bryan specifically says "de-rogued" and "de-pitified" in the poll. That very clearly means "out of the Rogue Pit" not "onto the Accred list".

Then "de-rogued" means being removed from the Rogue Pit. "de-pitified" means the same thing. As KK said, being let out of the Rogue Pit is a very different thing than being added to the Accred list. At no time was being added to the Accred list suggested here, at least not by us.

My apologies if you were just trying to be funny, I missed that. Attach Removed (Old not found)

 

[lots0]

Max or Bryan can you give us the number of people that have approached you guys about or tried to file a PAB against GP in the last couple of years?


@max I was really serious, I did miss that point. I looked at it and thought they were asking to be put on the accredited list. Just getting slow in my old age....
But it still does not change my vote.

 

[oren1976]

In General in the online gaming business you can't remember casinos all of their bad practice from all time, they suffer mistakes they make by themselves like Grand Prive offered life time commission to affiliate and when they got into some financial problems they decided to cancel it, I believe the are ok with players not so bad to be in the black list area

 

[Papa-ya]

We all have our views on this issue and voting yes by no means is asking for an open door to being accredited.

Many of us have been following these forums and issues for a long time, our membership time does not reflect what we know or don't know, as to what we have observered over the years with casinos, forums, the voices of it's members and personal experiences.

My vote is simply for the players that choose to play this software, is so they have an avenue if a problem occurs.

There should also be a stipulation that past issues need to be resolved in a satisfactory manner, this would show genuine desire for this group to be seen in a different light if they wish to continue with success to some degree, afterall, their software certainly isn't going to do it alone.

I personally have tried them many times with their free chips they are always sending out and not once have I met WR. The slots can spin endlessly, the features can never to rarely come, I have only seen the freespin feature on the western slot, once in the years off and on I have tried them, not just GP, but all with this software. So the software alone has no real appeal to me personally.

As for CM, his end decision is his alone and inuendos of his reputation being affected does not do him justice or honor and is not the issue.

 

[maxd]

Max or Bryan can you give us the number of people that have approached you guys about or tried to file a PAB against GP in the last couple of years?

That'll actually take a bit of effort. I'll be working on a monthly report in the next few days so maybe I can do it then.

Even with that number though you have to keep well in mind that once a casino is in the Pit the number of complaints we receive drops way off. A lot of people actually read the PAB rules and see that PABs against Rogue casinos are a "no go", so they don't bother. Ends up making Rogue shops look a lot better _after_ they are Rogued than they did before the black-listing. Attach Removed (Old not found)

 

[slotjunkie]

Everyone who is sincere in making their wrongs right and making a positive change, deserves a second chance!

 

[baldidiot]

Everyone who is sincere in making their wrongs right and making a positive change, deserves a second chance!

I agree, but in order for them to show sincerity they must first make amends for their wrong doings. And yes, this means squaring everything with the players, affs and anyone else they screwed over. Pay everybody and then come back and ask for a second chance, not the other way around (if ever).

 

[jod5413]

I agree, but in order for them to show sincerity they must first make amends for their wrong doings. And yes, this means squaring everything with the players, affs and anyone else they screwed over. Pay everybody and then come back and ask for a second chance, not the other way around (if ever).

I have to agree with your post. There is a world full of financial dealings that were not ever intended to be payed by them. They just want a clean sheet to start over. Impossible, since they really have made no prior effort to pay off all debt.

Even then, a long path of playing straight with every one and their mother would still barely make most folks feel they were trustworthy. But at least it would be something to actually think about, rather than the joke it is right now.

 

[anna1967]

no way

Are you setting up a poll?
or do you just want us to post our opinion?

I think you know my vote... No way!

How many chances are you going to give these guys?
I can see giving outfits in your Rogue Pit a way out, it's only fair.
However, after giving these very same people at grand privy chance after chance, they keep showing that they can't be trusted.

So who wants to be the NEXT big winner at Grand Privy that can't collect their money?

I agree, they offer promotions they do not honor, and if you win they do not pay out, or they lose your winnings and mess up the account or lock your account

 

[slotjunkie]

I agree, but in order for them to show sincerity they must first make amends for their wrong doings. And yes, this means squaring everything with the players, affs and anyone else they screwed over. Pay everybody and then come back and ask for a second chance, not the other way around (if ever).

Absolutely, which is why I bolded and underlined sincere and said right their wrongs!

Sincerity= 100% effort to show everyone that you have fixed/fixing your past wrong doings and are now operating with honesty, fairness and integrity!

 

[maxd]

I have to agree with your post. There is a world full of financial dealings that were not ever intended to be payed by them. They just want a clean sheet to start over.

Which brings up an interesting question: are the people who vote for release from the Pit not saying, however implicitly, "we agree to forget about your past non-payment issues"?

In a way it's like a bankruptcy, agreeing to wipe away past obligations. But usually in a bankruptcy settlement, at least a personal one, the bankruptee is expected to make an official statement regarding their recognition of the errors they've made and their plans not to repeat the process that got them there in the first place.

 

[I BEEN THERE]

In a way it's like a bankruptcy, agreeing to wipe away past obligations. But usually in a bankruptcy settlement, at least a personal one, the bankruptee is expected to make an official statement regarding their recognition of the errors they've made and their plans not to repeat the process that got them there in the first place.

On the same token. Once a person files bankruptcy, you can bet your sweet a$$ that the same loaner will NEVER again loan them a dime. Once a major mistake is made ( as in this case ) how can we ( as players & advocates ) turn our backs & give them another chance ? The bank wouldn't loan us money again after we filed, why are we any different or they ? They made a major mistake... did they ever make it right >? I am for no more excuses from these site(s) that take our money and find every possible loophole to wiggle outta paying.


I BEEN THERE

 

[silcnlayc]

the same loaner will NEVER again loan them a dime

Ok, here I need to disagree....My little sister filed over 10 years ago and she was able to borrow from the same lender within 2 years, including getting credit cards from the same card holders she filed chapter 7 against. It was an extremely bad time for her, having cancer of the spinal cord (she did not do it frivolously). But not working, the bills piling up..something had to give...So, never say never, because they did loan and she did get...from the same bankers/credit card issuers.

are the people who vote for release from the Pit not saying, however implicitly, "we agree to forget about your past non-payment issues"?

I voted yes because of the lack of places to play for the USA and it would be nice to know, I have someone (Bryan) have my back if I needed him. I did not vote to forget their past issues. I voted for protecting the player and Bryan and his site have enough pull to make a difference to make this happen for the players. (The protection/help)

That is why the casino is asking to back in his good graces (IMO) because they know if Bryan says he will be here for us....the first mistep the casino does while they are in his good graces, will all be for naught and they have doomed themselves..so....to me....if Bryan gives them a pass, I will feel that many will be more apt to return and play there more often, and I think they know that also.

At this time, USA players have slim pickings...and it would be nice to have one more place to feel good about...

.

 

[ksech]

Side note, if they are placed into the Probation section, any complaints that come through will be dealt with. At the moment they are on a "no can do" status, and they are not located in a jurisdiction that entertains player issues. Just an FYI.

So, question...
If they are de-rogued, they then are out of the "no can do" status, but does this still mean (because of their jurisdiction and non-accredited status) players would only get the one shot deal for a PAB if a player has problems? I think players need to look at all the angles before deciding they want to play there. Too many past bad issues with this group, and just stating they are under new management doesn't seem like enough to persuade a past player who has been burned from playing there again. They can spew all the words they want, the bottom line is what and how they are going to change.

They need to prove with their actions they have changed. They need to pay up what is owed to ALL parties.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Very good points you two.

I'm not sure a poll is the right thing for such a complex case. I've been yes, no and now I'm undecided!

Personally I think the decision is a very complicated one and it's best left to Bryan. There are very strong arguments on both sides I feel.

I think it would be fitting if he announced it in a webcast.

Bottom line is it's his business and you can't please everyone.

 

[maxd]

If they are de-rogued, they then are out of the "no can do" status, but does this still mean (because of their jurisdiction and non-accredited status) players would only get the one shot deal for a PAB if a player has problems?

My guess would be yes, they would be non-Accred like all the rest so the "One Free Shot" rule would, in general, apply. As ever though special cases would be looked at individually.

 

[baldidiot]

My guess would be yes, they would be non-Accred like all the rest so the "One Free Shot" rule would, in general, apply. As ever though special cases would be looked at individually.

Would the PAB status for players be reset? Ie: if a player has already submitted a PAB prior to the blacklisting of GP, could they submit another claim if they are let out of the pit? Or has that player already used up their "one shot"?

 

[tushtush33]

Pitched a bitch today

Managed to pitch a bitch today, hope they pay

 

[spiderman]

I just got done chatting

Chat InformationPlease wait for a site operator to respond.

Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Donovan'

Donovan: Hello and Welcome to our Live Chat service. How may I help you?

s: I heard you guys were trying to reinstate back to probation status from the rogue pit at Casinomeister, is that true?

Donovan: What are you talking about. O

Donovan: I will not tolerate this sort of chat,if you do not have a relevant query to your account then I will end this chat!

s: You guys have had lots of issues in the past with customers who post at Casinomeister

s: Its a relevant adult question.

s: Nothing personal

Donovan: That is none of our concern,Player who play at this casino are very happy.

Donovan: Well i dont have time for your adult questions,Do you have an account with us that you would like help with?

s: As a paying customer they have every right to know that the site is fair and paying.

s: Thats not how you talk to a potential customer.

Donovan: Are you a paying customer?

s: I never attacked the integrity in any way

Donovan: Our paying customers are happy with casino hence all the free offers we have given them

Donovan: Yes you have on your opening statement!

s: So you don't care about treating new customers the proper way

Donovan: Can I help you with anything else?

s: That was not an attack that was a question.

Donovan: New customers show a little more respect,not just come in here and accuse us of trying to move our status from rogues

Donovan: Will there be anything else?

s: It's a relevant question, is it not

Donovan: Is there anything else we can assist you with?

s: Well, I guess you don't care if I sign up or not then, right?

Donovan: If you would like to sign up then we have great offers for you being our birthday month

s: I do want to sign up

s: but I know you guys had problems in the past

Donovan: Those people that post comments are bonus seekers,all they want is free offers and never deposit,When we turn them down then they want to post negative things about the casino

s: Are you sure its just that and not payout issues?

Donovan: Not at all,we just paid $48,000 last week to our jackpot winner

Donovan: And a few weeks prior paid another $138,000 to one lucky player

s: I see

s: who audits your RNG software?

s: I don't see it on your site

Donovan: BetOnSoft

s: where are you guys licensed and regulated?

Donovan: Within the U.S

s: which company tests your RNG software (betonsoft) to see if it is fair and random?

Donovan: I cannot say

s: hello?

s: you don't know?

Donovan: I cannot say

Donovan: I cannot give you that information at this point

s: Why that info should be public and on your website.

s: I cant find it anywhere

Donovan: Will there be anything else regarding the casino and signing up questions

s: Are you guys licensed and regulated at any jurisdiction, yes or no?

Donovan: yes

s: Where?

Donovan: throughout the U.S

s: Ok

s: thanks then

I just got done chatting and this is verbatim. You guys know more about them so tell me what you think. They have usemywallet.com, which leaves them little excuses to delay payments, as a processor and accepts US players so that's why I might give a whirl over there. By the way, Itech lab does their software auditing but when I click on the icon I get the top of the landing page and nothing more. And no where do I see a jurisdiction. All their site are identical in format and same deal with all of them.

 

[vinylweatherman]

s: Are you guys licensed and regulated at any jurisdiction, yes or no?

Donovan: yes

s: Where?

Donovan: throughout the U.S

Well, clearly they have NOT changed.

For a rep who supposedly doesn't know what you are talking about, he became VERY defensive, and VERY quickly.

It seems as though they are trained to give stock replies to certain types of question, and I bet someone TOLD him to tell new players who asked that they were licensed and regulated in the U.S - highly misleading, and something a player with any experience will spot in an instant.

He brushed aside the point about the negative posts on forums as the "rantings of a few bonus seekers" who were angry about not being able to get something for nothing - yet STILL goes on to offer YOU a load of freebies and bonuses if you went ahead and registered.

Lying about where they are licensed got some Top Game casinos fast tracked to the rogue pit, so if GP are going to train their CS to lie about licensing when asked this question they are doing just the same.

CS are usually a players ONLY point of contact with a casino, so they MUST be in a position to tell the TRUTH, and answer questions that it is perfectly reasonable to ask of an internet casino that could be run from anywhere in the world, and by anyone.

I find it hard to believe that any casino CS rep could be THAT unaware of the current state of affairs in the US, given that CS have to be dealing with US players on a day to day basis, with many problems being due to the fact that far from being regulated by the US, they are OUTLAWED, and the DoJ is doing what they can to disrupt the flow of money between US players and casinos.

It seems they are "pulling a Virtual", in other words, blowing smoke up Bryan's ass about this "turning over a new leaf" and wanting out of the rogue pit. They cetainly want out of the pit, but probably because they hope this will bury all the bad PR, and make it easier for them to convince new players that they are "regulated throughout the US" and other such BS.

Pity this is only ONE rogue pit, they STILL have to contend with the HUNDREDS of affiliates they screwed over, who WILL be taking it personally, and therefore LESS likely even than Bryan to forget the whole affair.

This was never about the wholesale shafting of players in the first place, they roguing was to do with the business ethics of shafting affiliates, and then going on to royally ream the Kahnawake & MGS, followed by making eCogra into an unwitting accomplice in the cover-up operation to make it seem that the affiliates were making a fuss about nothing.

It is clearly FAR too early to consider a de-roguing. Questions like "where are you regulated" should be answered truthfully and CLEARLY - ideally on the website, so that players don't even need to ASK.

I bet they would turn similarly evasive and defensive when they decided a PLAYER was no longer "flavour of the month" with them, and this could lead to that player having a hard time getting anywhere without help.

Most of the "bonus seekers" he goes on about were DEPOSITING players, and who were doing nothing more "abusive" than taking all the bonuses they were PERSONALLY offered.

I remember how abruptly they turned on ME when I suddenly became "out of favour". One day I had a call from a VIP host, who wanted to "get to know me a bit", and we discussed the leaderboard slots wagering contest, and how I was enjoying the competition.

Less than a week later, it was "talk to the hand" - and I was escorted out of the tournament by security.

They did make some half hearted attempts to get me back over the following couple of years, and they sent me offers, even called me, and I was promised all sorts of nice things if only I came back and made them one of my regular casinos.

Now, when I DID dip my toes in, they broke EVERY DAMN PROMISE made to me - after all, they got my deposit, job done, no need to honour what they said BEFORE. This is no accident, this is POLICY, and just one of their "hard sell" tactics to tell the player what they want to hear in order to get that deposit out of them, and then renege on it afterwards.

Until this deep rooted culture changes, no amount of window dressing, new management, new leaves, etc... is going to make any difference.

It didn't at Virtual, and how many "new managers" have come and gone, each promising reform, but none delivering.

 

[silcnlayc]

Please remember that if you make a withdrawal, you must request the Credit card authorization form emailed to you if you used a credit card to deposit plus you need to send in all the usual documents. They do email you within minutes requesting these docs. I just made another withdrawal and they just asked to verify my info and update my authorization form since I used a different credit card.

Now I wait...it states they process withdrawals Mon-Fri once a day. I am sending in my updated docs today and will let you know when I recieve my funds if I will get them in the alloted 24-48 hours after the weekend.

.

 

[jetset]

Regarding post #139.

Whilst I have some reservations about condemning an entire organisation on the responses of a lowly CSR, I take the point that said CSR's are generally trained and briefed to give the company line on things like...say...licensing

That being the case, one would have to conclude that this chat transcript is yet another indication that there are serious questions regarding this operator's integrity.

 

[binshakindown]

Look at all the casinos that have never blundered in the capacity that GP did.

What kind of message does it send to those casinos that have worked their behinds off to keep this sort of thing from not happening. I realize that they are not going to gain accredited status overnight, but once they are out of the rogue, then comes the possibility of baptism by fire, etc. I have to agree that first they make amenz, then they ask for de-roguing. Not the other way around.

Also it does seem with the recent chat transcript (although cautious about authenticity) that the business model has problems as well. That should also be fixed before they ask for de-roguing. I voted "no" BTW.

 

[felicie]

Has anyone found out for certain whether their ownership/management has changed? I could ask them but that don't mean it's so. LOL

 

[lots0]

Looks to me like the poll numbers have been steady for the last couple of days.

IMO, this whole thing boils down to trust.

Do you trust GP to do the 'right' thing, EVERY time or don't you...

With that said;
Don't forget this simple FACT, gp still has the same owner. The same guy calling the shots who has already proven he can't be trusted by stealing people money and lying.

Screw me once, shame on you.... Screw me twice, shame on ME.

added///

Has anyone found out for certain whether their ownership/management has changed? I could ask them but that don't mean it's so. LOL

It's the same owner.
He has went through four management teams in the last three years (by my count), and every time he goes on about the "New" management... It's is all a smoke screen.

Here is a blast from the past... just to remind folks
from 2008

 

[felicie]

There's my answer. Thanks lots0. same guy same mistakes no amends. I'll change my vote to NO.

 

[The Dude]

Okay - well it seems that the "nays" have it.

31.90% yes
47.24% no
20.86% no opinion
326 members participating

I appreciate the feedback since I wanted to use this to gauge the general feelings out there. Actually, I was a bit surprised that a high number of members were willing to give them a chance to try and redeem themselves, but like so many of the "nay-sayers' I'll have to say nay as well.

#1 reason - the idea to place these guys in the probation section is premature. It wasn't the owner/operator who contacted me; it was their affiliate manager who wanted me to consider them to be removed from the pit. This pretty much demonstrates that it's not because they have gotten their act together, their motivation lies in the fact that being in the pit is bad for business. When I am approached by the operator (which is the usual scenario), I accept this as a sincere gesture and take them more seriously.

#2 - I don't think things have changed whatsoever at GP. For those of you new to the scene at Casinomeister, it's not primarily because of the affiliate program debacle from two years ago that landed them in the pit, it was the result of a continuous stream of stupid situations propelled by bad management.

Just by reading that chat session that spiderman posted gives one the gist of what things are like in GP land. It almost sounds like they recruited some of the clowns from Top Game's customer support.

My thoughts are the following: the casino's operation is still performing in a substandard manner and will remain in the rogue pit until there are some major changes (for instance: license from a white listed, or near white listed jurisdiction, use recognizable popular casino software, employ CSRs who can communicate in an effective and coherent manner, etc.). Till then...adios.

 

[silcnlayc]

Withdrawal completed

I would like to say that I am sorry to hear that this group will not get another chance to try and show good faith. There have been many that went to the wayside that were given multiple chances before being rogued or listed in the not recommended list. What made them so different than this group?

As I said on Friday night, I made a withdrawal of several hundred dollars and it already appeared in my usemywallet account ...It was faster than some accredited casinos. Especially since they do not do withdrawals on weekends and I had to resubmit my docs for updating.

The decision has been made by the powers that be...so be it..sadly excepted...

Please remember that if you make a withdrawal, you must request the Credit card authorization form emailed to you if you used a credit card to deposit plus you need to send in all the usual documents. They do email you within minutes requesting these docs. I just made another withdrawal and they just asked to verify my info and update my authorization form since I used a different credit card.

Now I wait...it states they process withdrawals Mon-Fri once a day. I am sending in my updated docs today and will let you know when I recieve my funds if I will get them in the alloted 24-48 hours after the weekend.

.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I would like to say that I am sorry to hear that this group will not get another chance to try and show good faith. There have been many that went to the wayside that were given multiple chances before being rogued or listed in the not recommended list. What made them so different than this group?

As I said on Friday night, I made a withdrawal of several hundred dollars and it already appeared in my usemywallet account ...It was faster than some accredited casinos. Especially since they do not do withdrawals on weekends and I had to resubmit my docs for updating.

The decision has been made by the powers that be...so be it..sadly excepted...

This is only one aspect of being reputable, and as far as you are concerned, they have passed the test.

The problem is that being considered reputable means that ALL aspects of their conduct must be "honest", and there must be no signs that deceptive practices are "policy", rather than rare mistakes.

Having been rogued, it is no longer a matter of "not getting caught again", but a matter of demonstrating that REAL changes have taken place, and right from the very top, down to the bottom level, where contact with players is direct.

In this case, the OWNERS apparently "couldn't be arsed" to talk directly to Bryan about this, but sent their affiliate manager to try their luck. Maybe this was all they wanted, a chance to "try their luck" at bluffing their way out of the pit.

The chat posted shows that any changes have yet to make their way down to the bottom of the organisation, and this is where it REALLY matters as far as the player experience is concerned.

Bryan has been fooled a few times before by the "we have turned over a new leaf" approach, mostly by Virtual group. He will have learned from these previous experiences, and this makes it harder for an operator to fool him again using a similar approach.

It is mainly affiliates that GP want to get back on side, and I doubt removal from the pit will make as much difference as they think, especially since many affiliates got conned out of revenue for the work they did getting GP players in the first place.

I don't think GP have much of a problem getting players, since they target the US, and have found a way to stay around when many other operators have pulled out. What they DO have a problem with is not being represented on many (if any) affiliate portals, so players visiting such portals will not even see GP as an option, and if they look further, will see GP in the rogue pits of many.

GP should first come to an agreement with these affiliates, to at least get rid of any negative listing. Next, they need to offer affiliates some guarantees that they won't just pull the same stunt again when they feel they don't need them to recruit players.

Next, they need to review all levels of the organisation, and make sure what they do follows what is regarded as "good practice", even if there is no law requiring them to do this.

When it comes to the pit here, not only coudn't the owners be bothered with dealing with Bryan themselves, but they STILL stick to the old policy of "we don't deal with forums", which is shown because one step that is taken by other casinos who want "out of the pit" has NOT been taken by GP, or did I miss the "Introduce yourself" post from the new Grand Prive forum rep

They got a "NO" from me.

 

[dominique]

IMO it's very simple: When you did something wrong, first thing you do is fix it.

Then you ask for forgiveness.

This would have gone very differently here if they had fixed things first.

They can still do so, and they can still be forgiven.