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Grand Mondial - no pay

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by odair, Oct 30, 2007.

    Oct 30, 2007
  1. odair

    odair Dormant account

    Occupation:
    bar tender
    Location:
    Natal - Brasil
    Hello Folks,


    My experience is the following:

    On 7.10. I made a withdrawal of 1900 GBP in the casino. It is all my
    winnings and I did not use any bonus.
    on 15.10. I still didnt have the money in my Neteller so I wrote an
    email to the support.
    After 4 days (!!!) there was no reply and I wrote another email and
    entered online chat. The chat guy told me it is normal (!!!) that it takes so
    long because of the size of the withdrawal.
    The only answer I got to the email was an automated one ( transferred
    to the relevent department...)
    After another 4 days (today) I asked them again why they dont answer
    and what is about my withdrawal.
    I got this answer:

    "Kindly note that your casino account has been locked and your winnings confiscated because you purchased in
    Pounds.
    Our terms and conditions states that the casino do not allow players from Non-Uk regions to play in GBP.

    I checked the terms when I made my deposit. There was nothing about
    this! I checked the terms again right now on
    You must register/login in order to see the link. and there is STILL
    nothing about this.

    So not only dont they keep their own promises ( 11. All customer
    queries will be answered within two working days. )
    They even say in chat that its normal that they dont.
    They dont respond to emails
    And they dont pay me for no reason (or a reason which is an obvious
    lie)


    I have contacted the casinomeister to ask how this casino can be on his recommended list but I also didnt get answer yet.
    I also contacted the CEO who is active in this forum. On thursday he asked me for 24 hours to get this fixe. On friday he said he would do it on monday and my recent emails he didnt answer.

    I am really sick of all this now and want to warn everybody of playing in this casino!!
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Oct 30, 2007
  3. GGW Laurie

    GGW Laurie Webmeister webmeister

    Occupation:
    Self Employed
    Location:
    In the Beautiful South !!
    that sucks, maybe they will take care of this pronto for you, i didnt see that either when i looked at the t/c but i could have missed something. hope it all works out well for you and you get your winnings........laurie
     
  4. Oct 30, 2007
  5. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    I Keep playing there at GM because I couldnt find another MG, now that I did, I wont be playing there because I have NEVER gotten any money, infact I have waited almost 10 days for an approval on the W/D let alone the money itself. Im sick of them and their games (mind, not slots)


    Another nasty thing happened today (no, KK, Im not blaming you because I picked it from you place lol) but I went to deposit $10 and got a letter saying my bank wont take it. I was confused because GM took it. So me being the little yenta I am, needing more info as to why, I decided to try $20, guess what? It worked. They have that you can deposit as little as $10 and no where in the email did it say "we dont take small amounts like $10" So I think they just wanted a bigger deposit.

    I sent them back an email tellling them they should of looked at my acct and seen my $20 deposit go through before opening their lying mouths and to close my account ASAP. Im really sick of the BS going on with us Americans and even Canadians are getting their share of BS.
     
  6. Oct 31, 2007
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    If you are not taking bonuses, it doesn't constitute an "advantage play" to use UK Pounds.
    I would be interested, though, in WHY you chose the UK Pound if you are from Brazil - it does give casinos an excuse to pull stunts.
    Unless they have it in the T & C, they cannot expect players to know that they cannot use the currencies actually offered by the software when they register their accounts.
     
  8. Oct 31, 2007
  9. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    I dont know whether this was newly added but it is stated clearly in Rule 15 of the General Terms and Conditions (Banking, Purchasing and Withdrawals):

    Players must register and play in the currency of the country in which they reside, if avaialble, or in USD. Should players not observe this rule all winnings derived from the resulting game play will be forfeited.

    If this clause was already there, the player has no claim to the winnings. However, there is a sense of injustice here as it doesnt void play but rather regards you as a sucker who will either lose your deposit or have your winnings confiscated. If they had stated that all play would be voided, that would have been different as every player gets back his deposit no matter how well/badly he had fared at the games. This clause seems to allow them to take advantage of players to confiscate winnings and retain losses.
     
    3 people like this.
  10. Oct 31, 2007
  11. USA2112

    USA2112 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Rehab old dwellings and playing music/guitar/etc..
    Location:
    USA
    It would be a little hard to miss what line 15 says in the banking terms and it does say you must play in your currency.

    Seems a little strange though that line 14 sounds to be the end of the bank terms, as you can see below, and line 15 comes after. You clearly don't have to look far for the other terms. :rolleyes: Grasping at straws I guess. ;)

    14.) You will find more purchasing instructions throughout this site so don't hesitate to contact us if you have further questions.

    15.) Players must register and play in the currency of the country in which they reside, if available, or in USD. Should players not observe this rule all winnings derived from the resulting game play will be forfeited.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Oct 31, 2007
  13. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I'm nearly 100% certain this term has always been there - it's quite a common condition at lots of casinos.

    However, I agree that it would be grossly unfair to not pay this player. As usual, the casino is the one with all the control here; if they don't want players using a particular currency, why do they allow them to open accounts & deposit in that currency???

    I hope the casino sees sense here & does the right thing.
    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Oct 31, 2007
  15. Mario

    Mario Dormant account

    Occupation:
    CSC Supervisor
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi there chuchu59,

    Yes indeed that Term and Conditions has been there since the beginning.

    Nothing has changed at all in fact the casino has taken a more firm stance in accordance to this T&C.

    Thanks
    Mario
    PlayShare Group Representative
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Oct 31, 2007
  17. Mario

    Mario Dormant account

    Occupation:
    CSC Supervisor
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi there odair,

    I find it really hard to believe that it will take us two days to respond to your emails as well as that you did not receive any responses back from us.

    I would like to make a full investigation into this matter for you and request that you please email me your account details either to the direct email address below and or via PM.

    Please do send this for me so that I can see when and what was responded to you and what the final outcome is of this.

    Thanks
    Mario
    PlayShare Group Representative
     
  18. Oct 31, 2007
  19. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Thanks for responding Mario. Can I take it further by asking whether a player can ask you to refund his deposit if he loses playing in a disallowed currency. IMO, casinos should have the right to protect themselves and even if this is not in any way related to 'advantage play' ie bonuses, you still have a right to not permitting players from using particular currencies for play. However, that would in fact mean that all play with such currencies are void and refunds should be made to players who lose or win since the bets were not accpeted.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Oct 31, 2007
  21. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    :thumbsup: Well said! If the currency was disallowed, then the player shouldn't have been able to deposit or play using it. I find it interesting that the hammer didn't come down until the player tried to make a withdrawal.
     
  22. Oct 31, 2007
  23. USA2112

    USA2112 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Rehab old dwellings and playing music/guitar/etc..
    Location:
    USA
    All casinos don't use these same standard terms, casino terms do very.


    The question never comes up when a player loses. Only when they try to cash out. This is a big problem with casinos, you would think their software could block these types of transactions that are not allowed. We are taking about computers here.

    Still find it a little strange that line 15 comes after line 14 "end of bank terms" also why would anyone who sets up a public document use the <p> tag where a <Li> tag should be, 1 to 14 <Li> tag and 15 <p> tag and centered on the page. Strange way of doing things.
     
  24. Oct 31, 2007
  25. odair

    odair Dormant account

    Occupation:
    bar tender
    Location:
    Natal - Brasil
    Thanks!

    I am 100% sure that this paragraph is new. And it is even obvious! Its a TAB ahead all the other paragraphs and its on last position (15) because they added it recently! Not when I registered! And also not 10 days ago (have a screenshot from then)

    BTW: I did play in pounds because my currency (Reais) is not offered!
     
  26. Oct 31, 2007
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    These terms were brought in to prevent players using the Uk Pound in particular to claim a far bigger bonus. It simply should NOT be an issue when no bonuses are involved - in such cases the player is simply playing with their own credits.
    Further, whether or not the term was there is not the point. The software continues to offer customers any casino supported currency, and they MUST choose at that point before being able to complete registration. If they are offered a currency, and they are not interested in a bonus, there should be no reason for them to have to worry about what is or is not allowed.
    I have never seen a valid justification for this term outside of the bonus issue. This term is NOT "standard" by any means. Usually, where present, the term dictates that players must use a certain currency in order to be ELIGIBLE FOR THE BONUS. With Globalisation, all currencies are equal, there is no reason why a player whose OWN currency is not offered should be limited in choice between the others offered. The casino then has the right to decide whether they want to allow the choice for bonuses, but it should never be used as an excuse to void winnings derived entirely from the random play at the casino. It would make no difference whether he played 3 a hand/spin or $6 - the only difference would be if he had twice the bonus because of using pounds.
    The term IS there, but is buried in a boring list of deposit and withdrawal options, and most players don't need to read beyond the point that describes their own chosen method. Indeed, often it is not necessary to read about how banking works at all if you have some experience of online transactions.

    It is time software providers used place of residence to limit the drop down list of available currencies, it would then be IMPOSSIBLE for the above to happen without the player resorting to trickery, such as giving false details during registration to manipulate the currency selection lists.

    Such instances give online casinos a bad name, and wasn't the whole DAMN POINT of these "white label" outlets to market outside the general niche of "standard" online players. You just snared one from Brazil - and without needing one of the damn "white labels" too, and the first thing you do is alienate him with a rather technical point at term 15 of banking, even though he followed the advice of "if you want to NOT have to woory about being tripped up by odd terms, DON'T TAKE A BONUS"

    An EXPERIENCED online gambler would probably think about this issue even when not using bonuses, but a newbie? probably the last thing they would expect to be tripped up on.

    Here in the UK, I can use Euros in Sainsburys if I have any left over, I don't have my shopping voided at the exit because I am a UK Resident & should have shopped with pounds.

    If this term is so pivotally important, it should NOT be at "15" under banking, it should be in BOLD, right at the top of EVERYTHING, including being CLEARLY VISIBLE at the top of the downloader as it installs the casino.
    This goes for the lot of you (operators) not just Playshare.

    If WE, the community, can think of an easy way for players to be more informed of pitfalls when registering, we should expect the operators and software companies to implement an "idiot proof" interface to the greatest extent possible, after all, casinos probably turn over more money than most other leisure activity we engage in, and much of the operation of it is not seen (and you like it that way, look what happens when some of the behind the scenes stuff comes out, such as the VP doubling win/lose being predetermined before dealing the first (dealer) card).
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Nov 1, 2007
  29. USA2112

    USA2112 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Rehab old dwellings and playing music/guitar/etc..
    Location:
    USA
    The casino is the one that is implementing the use of term 15 In their response to the player, that is why they are refusing to pay his winnings. The player posted that he read the terms, If so, I dont see how line 15 could have been skipped or just missed. So why did he not choose USD as it states he should have being his currency was not avalible.

    The terms being referred to are in a strange order to say the least, and possibly changed. So to say that is not the point, I guess that depends on if or when the terms were changed or added, if so, was it yesterday or six months ago and if terms in line 15 were changed or added after the fact, that is the whole point. This is the terms the casino is accusing the player of not following.

    I know I read all terms with every transaction I make with a casino and understand them clearly before I play, and would suggest everyone to do the same. By reading odairs first post it sounds like he did read the terms before depositing and playing. If I was to have the same thing happen to me and go back after making a deposit playing and winning and being refused a withdraw and found the terms were possibly changed I would be just as concerned and want to find out why.

    All Im trying to do is help, I always take a look at the obvious points that are presented. Which is the terms and that they were read by the player and that the reason the casino is refusing the withdraw, terms line15 and the player saying the terms did not exist when he read them.

    Dont matter if Im wrong or right its just something to consider, this is just my opinion.

    I do like the idea of casinos becoming a little more responsible and add certain features. Like drop downs that provide proper currencies at registration and as mentioned in another thread, pop ups that would inform players entering the casino of changes in the terms and conditions when changes have been made.

    As far as a casinos reputation, I believe casinos build their own reputation some are good some are bad and I dont think any player can determine the outcome of their reputation no matter what they say on any forum. Plus they always have the right to come forward and defend any and all accusations. H*ll that is why I have been coming to the casinomeister forum for the last several years, reading all the controversy that surrounds the gambling industry and just recently decided to sign up as a member.

    One small note: This is the best the statement, operators and software companies to implement an "idiot proof" interface dont think it is necessary. Definition: A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. This ought to keep the casinos on their toes especially when the phones calls come in.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Nov 1, 2007
  31. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    Well, damn, USA2112, you don't leave much to discuss by the end of a post, I bet you were good with essays :)

    I tend to think that if there is an issue here, it will be resolved. Am I mixing my posts or did OP say they had a screen shot? This would say one of two things...

    Apologies if I'm in the wrong thread.
     
  32. Nov 1, 2007
  33. USA2112

    USA2112 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Rehab old dwellings and playing music/guitar/etc..
    Location:
    USA
    Yeah, I always seem to look into things some times to much and get ahead of myself, I'm sure it will be resolved. He did mention a screen shot.
     
  34. Nov 1, 2007
  35. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    If we are on the same page (and i could be wrong) somebody is fexed.
     
  36. Nov 1, 2007
  37. odair

    odair Dormant account

    Occupation:
    bar tender
    Location:
    Natal - Brasil
    Hi,

    yes I did a screenshot when I wasnt paid after 2 weeks and now that I looked at it again, and Term 15 IS there. This means does not mean it was there when I depoisted, but it means I did overread it once, so it is possible that I did overread it twice.
    Of course this changes the situation a bit, but still I think it is not right not paying my winnings. It rather seems to me that I really have no chance to get my winnings.
    Thanks to Grand Mondial to have let me deposit in this currency though! I guess its impossible programming to not give the player the option if its prohibited! Just dont understand what the CM-acredited list is for if I cant really trust those casinos.
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Nov 1, 2007
  39. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    That does put it in a slightly different light.

    Just my opinion? If the casino took your wager they need to pay the result, but that's just my opinion. If I walk into the Rio and place a bet with a Golden Nugget chip, the dealer won't take the bet. If does, he damn well better pay me if i win. If i go to the cage and try to buy Rio chips (which is what your casino credits are online) with monopoly money or seashells, they won't do the transaction, if they do, they damn well better pay me if I place a chip (casino credit) and win.

    Have you read this page yet? http://www.casinomeister.com/problems.php It's a self help program for now, but the tools are there. Good luck, please let us know how things progress
     

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