GoWild don"t pay 3600€

[anja077]

I found GoWild Casino at this website and I am almost sure I used the link in this site to play there.

I made a 200 deposit and was auto credited with 200 bonus.

I went to fortune finder slots machine, placed 12 a spin and won 3600€.

The casino said I abused the bonus by betting large bets that are not allowed. I checked the terms and could see large bets are bets that consist most of bonus and balance as a single bet, but this is totally not my case, I never raised the bet more than 12 and never bet less than 12, is 12 a spin a bonus abuse at fortune finder slots

Then they said, you played autoplay and this is bonus abuse.

I never used autoplay, they say not true, why are you doing that GoWild, why can"t you pay my winnings, I trusted your casino after I searched all ok with you, and you are also an accredited casino at this site.

They also said, I made the maximum deposit to get the bonus and played the minimum amount and right after cashed out, this is also not true, I always play more as I do not sit and check how much I play, I played the slots, the bonus meter reached zero and I continued to play more, all not true.

Here are some of their replies and nonsense emails to support my claims, all I say is true and can be checked in the game log, all I did is to play 12 a spin in slots only, never used autoplay, won and not being paid.

"Hello Anja,

We trust all is well.

We would like to inform you that our risk and fraud department has denied your withdrawal.

During your game-play, fraud department noticed that you abused the bonus you received. Maximizing bonus offer and playing with large wagers is a clear violation of our Bonus Terms & Conditions:

3. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus playthrough requirements."

Is 12 a spin a large bet ?


"After reviewing Anja's play history, our Risk and Fraud department have detected an abusive bonus play.
Player opened an account with GoWiild Casino, deposited maximum amount right away - maximizing the slot bonus offer using auto spin feature while setting up the auto spins to stop when the minimal play-through is complete.
Further more, Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game, making sure the minimum amount needed to complete the wagering has been achieved. Immediately after the player has requested a withdrawal"

Look at what they say

"Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game"


Is this bonus abuse


forgot to mentioned I spoke to the casino 2 times on the phone and they promised to bring an answer from the account department but they never give me such an answer, they only called back to say they will contact the payment department

 

[De Beuker]

I found GoWild Casino at this website and I am almost sure I used the link in this site to play there.

I made a 200 deposit and was auto credited with 200 bonus.

I went to fortune finder slots machine, placed 12 a spin and won 3600€.

The casino said I abused the bonus by betting large bets that are not allowed. I checked the terms and could see large bets are bets that consist most of bonus and balance as a single bet, but this is totally not my case, I never raised the bet more than 12 and never bet less than 12, is 12 a spin a bonus abuse at fortune finder slots

Then they said, you played autoplay and this is bonus abuse.

I never used autoplay, they say not true, why are you doing that GoWild, why can"t you pay my winnings, I trusted your casino after I searched all ok with you, and you are also an accredited casino at this site.

They also said, I made the maximum deposit to get the bonus and played the minimum amount and right after cashed out, this is also not true, I always play more as I do not sit and check how much I play, I played the slots, the bonus meter reached zero and I continued to play more, all not true.

Here are some of their replies and nonsense emails to support my claims, all I say is true and can be checked in the game log, all I did is to play 12 a spin in slots only, never used autoplay, won and not being paid.

"Hello Anja,

We trust all is well.

We would like to inform you that our risk and fraud department has denied your withdrawal.

During your game-play, fraud department noticed that you abused the bonus you received. Maximizing bonus offer and playing with large wagers is a clear violation of our Bonus Terms & Conditions:

3. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus playthrough requirements."

Is 12 a spin a large bet ?


"After reviewing Anja's play history, our Risk and Fraud department have detected an abusive bonus play.
Player opened an account with GoWiild Casino, deposited maximum amount right away - maximizing the slot bonus offer using auto spin feature while setting up the auto spins to stop when the minimal play-through is complete.
Further more, Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game, making sure the minimum amount needed to complete the wagering has been achieved. Immediately after the player has requested a withdrawal"

Look at what they say

"Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game"


Is this bonus abuse


forgot to mentioned I spoke to the casino 2 times on the phone and they promised to bring an answer from the account department but they never give me such an answer, they only called back to say they will contact the payment department

Going through your story I think you have a case.
You did not break any of the T&C's and it looks like they try to pull a 'Spirit of the Bonus' on you, which is not allowed for an accredited casino.

The first thing you have to do is contact the casino representative here and explain the situation and see if you can come to a solution.
If that doesn't work you should file a PAB (Pitch a Bitch), which is an official complaint on this site, and Max Drayman will go to battle for you.

Anyway, stop posting about this issue, as forum posts can harm your case.

But as I said earlier, try to contact the rep. for GoWild first, Gia is usually very helpful, send her a private message and give her some time to respond.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

 

[sattty]

go wild is an excellent casino and im sure u will get this sorted

 

[SlotMonster]

I think that in "excellent" casino it would never HAPPEN

Good luck though.

 

[colly]

Bet percentage exclusions usually apply when betting over 35% of bonus = certainly 12 (6%) wouldn't break this rule= As to the autoplay that is just laughable= If that was against the rules then I think every single person including myself has a problem= we are talkig slots= no skill required just press the button= whether its automated or not doesn't influence. Its hardly a program or a bot making decisions and the autoplay is provided by the casino software

This one just sounds a little strange= I would be interested in the GW rep posting theor side of the story. I don't always beleive the GW chat CS having been on the recieving end of a clearly incorrect "scripted excuse" on the odd occasion.

While I do'nt play there any more = GW isn't the type of casino to pull a no pay flimsy= I have had the odd large cashout after bonus receipts and no query on payout and paid promptly.

In the meantime do follow the advice given by De Beuker= its frustrating to have to wit in silence when you wnat to rant but it will be worth it in the end.

 

[Jufo]

"After reviewing Anja's play history, our Risk and Fraud department have detected an abusive bonus play.
Player opened an account with GoWiild Casino, deposited maximum amount right away - maximizing the slot bonus offer using auto spin feature while setting up the auto spins to stop when the minimal play-through is complete.
Further more,Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game, making sure the minimum amount needed to complete the wagering has been achieved. Immediately after the player has requested a withdrawal"

None of the things above break the T&C or are a reason to confiscate. And confiscating because player deposited maximum amount... So one is not allowed to deposit for maximum bonus anymore? Clearly GoWild is acting in conflict with requirements for an accredited casino, so the OP should remember to mention this in their message to GoWIld casino Rep and PAB:

Standards for Accredited Casinos

Operational Standards

- Must not disqualify any player from a payout if terms & conditions are met, except for situations of fraud (multiple-accounts, bogus ID documents, chargebacks, etc.,).
- Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C violations.
- Must not implement terms that can be construed as "unfair" towards the player.

 

[The Dude]

None of the things above break the T&C or are a reason to confiscate. And confiscating because player deposited maximum amount... So one is not allowed to deposit for maximum bonus anymore? Clearly GoWild is acting in conflict with requirements for an accredited casino, so the OP should remember to mention this in their message to GoWIld casino Rep and PAB:

Gia is aware of this and she is checking with the Risk and Fraud department to see exactly what has happened. If the player did not break the terms, she ought to be paid.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Gia is aware of this and she is checking with the Risk and Fraud department to see exactly what has happened. If the player did not break the terms, she ought to be paid.

She should, and then get bonus banned.

This is a "spirit of the bonus" issue, and the casino side seems to be implying it watched her via webcam as it seems to be pretty certain HOW she did it "set autoplay to min amount etc......". That is bollocks, as she could simply have stopped autoplay and checked the WR, or she could just have sat there clicking manually and using the "stats" function to work out her total wagering.

Another reason such tactics don't work is that autoplay stops every time you hit a feature, so could NOT be set up with the number of spins required, and then left to complete WR.

If this tactic worked, it was only by chance, as the RTP along with the 29x WR ensures that this is -EV over the long term. 6% is hardly a "big bet" when their terms stipulate 35%. I have seen this type of term set at 10% in some casinos, but even here this tactic would be well within it.


This is the kind of thing GoWild were doing soon after launch, and it got them into trouble.

I also know that GoWild limit the max bet via the software when a bonus is on the account, so they were clearly happy with this level of betting. I was finding Munchkins limited to £15 per spin there with a bonus, and reverting to the normal max of £75 when no bonus was in play.

Why is the "risk and fraud department" even getting involved, this is simply a method of play, not fraud.

 

[GOCC]

Hi,

After reviewing Anja's play history, our Risk and Fraud department have detected an abusive bonus play.

Player opened an account with GoWiild Casino, deposited maximum amount right away - maximizing the slot bonus offer using auto spin feature while setting up the auto spins to stop when the minimal play-through is complete.

Further more, Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game, making sure the minimum amount needed to complete the wagering has been achieved. Immediately after the player has requested a withdrawal.

GoWild's Terms & Conditions:
www.gowildcasino.com/bonus-terms.html

3. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus playthrough requirements.

www.gowildcasino.com/termsandconditions.html

10. Promotion Abuse and Policy
10.1 Definition

GoWild Casino deems promotion abuse to include but not to be limited to any of the following:

A. Receiving a promotion bonus then cashing in without demonstrating a reasonable degree of play

The player obviously came with a propose of abusing the casino welcome offer and not for any other reason.

Kindly note that Anja's initial deposit is refunded back to player's Neteller account.

Should you need any further assistance please don't hesitate to contact me.


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[rainmaker]

.


The player used the auto-spin feature Oh my God. She used the auto spin feature! We all know that this feature is only used by fraudsters, so case closed then

C`mon GoWild. That explanation was, to be honest...terrible.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi,

After reviewing Anja's play history, our Risk and Fraud department have detected an abusive bonus play.

Player opened an account with GoWiild Casino, deposited maximum amount right away - maximizing the slot bonus offer using auto spin feature while setting up the auto spins to stop when the minimal play-through is complete.

Further more, Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game, making sure the minimum amount needed to complete the wagering has been achieved. Immediately after the player has requested a withdrawal.

GoWild's Terms & Conditions:
www.gowildcasino.com/bonus-terms.html

3. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus playthrough requirements.

www.gowildcasino.com/termsandconditions.html

10. Promotion Abuse and Policy
10.1 Definition

GoWild Casino deems promotion abuse to include but not to be limited to any of the following:

A. Receiving a promotion bonus then cashing in without demonstrating a reasonable degree of play

The player obviously came with a propose of abusing the casino welcome offer and not for any other reason.

Kindly note that Anja's initial deposit is refunded back to player's Neteller account.

Should you need any further assistance please don't hesitate to contact me.


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How is this anything other than them voiding winnings because the player didn't play "within the spirit of the bonus".

GoWild set the WR to 29x, so if it wanted more play it should have set it to 50x, even if only for the welcome bonus.

If 12 per spin was deemed too high a bet, they should have capped it even more harshly using the software function they already use to cap bets via limiting max coin size when a bonus is in play. They could screw coin size right down to 0.01 if necessary for the welcome bonus, and bets of 12 per spin would then be impossible.

Any voiding of winnings other than through explicit breaches of the terms does not meet the standards for accreditation. I doubt they would have refunded the deposit in the more likely situation of this player having busted out on 12 per spin.

Arguments about how the player sat or did not sit at her PC, or what settings she used in the lobby, are largely a matter of speculation on the part of the casino. They have no way of knowing whether this player set autoplay and buggered off to watch the telly, or whether she sat there and enjoyed the lights and sounds of the game, ready to take over should a bonus round be triggered.

They had better come up with a proper reason for voiding winnings, or suffer the consequences of pulling this "spirit of the bonus" bullshit.

OP should proceed directly to PAB, and post nothing further here, nor at any other forum. This may not get her paid, but it will let us know whether or not GoWild is back to it's old ways of pulling "spirit of the bonus" arguments in order to void winnings.

 

[Lucky Loser]

Go Wild is the microgaming casino I least trust. I would not be surprised if they are trying to find reasons not to pay.

 

[LaHutti]

If this casino stick to their reason for confiscating 3600,- they deserve the pit. That's my honest opinion.
THEY set the rules all the way, and the player followed their rules 100% and got lucky.
Behavior like this is nothing short of rogue behavior, and personally I will not put 5 cents more into this casino, until this player has been paid in full, and I hope everyone else will follow this example.
Just outrageous.

 

[GoWildGaming]

Hi Everybody,

Gia has already took care of this matter and dealing with the OP in private messages.
We are accredited for a reason and have proven this over the years.
Let's give her time to resolve this matter.

 

[jod5413]

Unless there is definite "proof" (which does not seem possible with the info here), anything other than pay the player will be considered rogue, IMO. How many ways can a casino screw themselves over these days? This will definitely lead to a loss of customers, and every little glitch will cause screaming by the players. So much for income for the casino.

Good Job, Go Wild!!!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Everybody,

Gia has already took care of this matter and dealing with the OP in private messages.
We are accredited for a reason and have proven this over the years.
Let's give her time to resolve this matter.

All very well, but there shouldn't have been an issue for Gia to deal with in the first place. The play was within the terms, and WR was completed. This was SLOTS play, not a player taking advantage of low variance table games with "do or die" aggressive betting.

I often bet at this level, sometimes more, and can just as easily LOSE 3000 as win it. I am sure many players have bet around this level on the welcome bonus, but do we hear of the casino rushing about refunding the deposits when they lose?

If a different story emerges (fraud, collusion, etc), then it still means the casino lied not only to the player, but to a party trying to mediate.

 

[Jufo]

The player obviously came with a propose of abusing the casino welcome offer and not for any other reason.

Whatever her reason for playing at your casino was it is none of your business really. The bottom line is that you offered her a bonus, she accepted it and played it well within the terms so now it is your turn to honor the deal you made, even though it didn't work in your favor.

What puzzles me the most is that casinos make the effort to be accredited, and yet still break the rules of accreditation so blatantly. Don't they even read what the responsibilites from becoming accredited are?

 

[Jasminebed]

GoWild is the only Microgaming I play at where the bonus amount is not shown when you hover your mouse over your balance in the lobby. You either have to count yourself or ask support where you are in your playthrough.

Players are accused of mis-using bonuses by placing small bets to grind out a big win. If this player hit something decent, they probably lost some along the way with $12 spins, maybe even losing and then making a comeback and deciding to cash out.

There's a feature in this game, so you can't just autoplay forever. Didn't Casino Rewards group have problems with eCogra or their licensor over denying wins that used autoplay, even though it was in their terms?

I usually flatbet for long periods, maybe raising if I'm doing well, or raising if it's been a very long time without a feature.

I don't think $12 is insanely large... if you pick two cents and hit max bet, it's $12 a spin.

I sometimes have sessions where I only play one game. If a game is doing well, I often stick with it.

If GoWild doesn't like how this player plays bonuses, then pay her and bonus ban her. Heck, ban her entirely after paying her winnings if you like. A sure way to have her never deposit and lose.

This is a slot game. I think even at 29x bonus, the odds favour the house.

 

[Jufo]

All very well, but there shouldn't have been an issue for Gia to deal with in the first place. The play was within the terms, and WR was completed. This was SLOTS play, not a player taking advantage of low variance table games with "do or die" aggressive betting.

You know, someone said once that once casinos start confiscating winnings from SLOTS play then everything has really gone to sh*t. Slots are kind of the last resort where players have felt they can play safely without breaking any rule or being accused of abuse. The same person said that this will hopefully never happen, but this case shows that we are probably there already.

 

[Jufo]

GoWild is the only Microgaming I play at where the bonus amount is not shown when you hover your mouse over your balance in the lobby. You either have to count yourself or ask support where you are in your playthrough.

A bit off-topic but I found the same thing at Purple Lounge (bonus balance not visible). Luckily there is a solution: Go to Loyality Points (Comps) section and it should display your current cash balance / bonus balance, so no need to count / ask.

 

[hausse222]

Hi,

After reviewing Anja's play history, our Risk and Fraud department have detected an abusive bonus play.

Player opened an account with GoWiild Casino, deposited maximum amount right away - maximizing the slot bonus offer using auto spin feature while setting up the auto spins to stop when the minimal play-through is complete.

Further more, Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game, making sure the minimum amount needed to complete the wagering has been achieved. Immediately after the player has requested a withdrawal.

GoWild's Terms & Conditions:
www.gowildcasino.com/bonus-terms.html

3. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus playthrough requirements.

www.gowildcasino.com/termsandconditions.html

10. Promotion Abuse and Policy
10.1 Definition

GoWild Casino deems promotion abuse to include but not to be limited to any of the following:

A. Receiving a promotion bonus then cashing in without demonstrating a reasonable degree of play

The player obviously came with a propose of abusing the casino welcome offer and not for any other reason.

Kindly note that Anja's initial deposit is refunded back to player's Neteller account.

Should you need any further assistance please don't hesitate to contact me.


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This explanation is a shame !

 

[brutaldeluxe]

If you lose you lose, if you win you don't get paid. Yeah awesome.
Go Wild should be binned. The very fact you even have to complain to get paid over something
like this is scandalous.
Can you imagine this happening at 32 Red ? Nae danger. There is a reason they win lots of awards !

 

[mattsgame]

I am going to reserve judgement until both sides come out..

But if what the OP has posted is true, then shame on Go Wild.

(*)
Why does it take someone to come to these forums and make a complaint for a casino to look into it? If the OP never posted the casino would be getting away with stuff like this and its BS. Then after the fact a casino will come out saying "We're looking into it". Is this meant to make you look better? well to me it does not.. it shows you will try get away with anything until caught.

Well I am sorry stuff like this should not be pulled in the first place and its not good enough that "you will look in to it" How about preventing it in the first place or stop treating players like they're idiots.(*)

*This is my opinion on all the casinos not just this case, because we don't know both sides. But if its proven that this is the case and the OP is telling the truth 100% then my opinion above also stands here*

 

[SlotsLover]

reducing bet size

GoWild is the only Microgaming I play at where the bonus amount is not shown when you hover your mouse over your balance in the lobby. You either have to count yourself or ask support where you are in your playthrough.

Players are accused of mis-using bonuses by placing small bets to grind out a big win. If this player hit something decent, they probably lost some along the way with $12 spins, maybe even losing and then making a comeback and deciding to cash out.

There's a feature in this game, so you can't just autoplay forever. Didn't Casino Rewards group have problems with eCogra or their licensor over denying wins that used autoplay, even though it was in their terms?

I usually flatbet for long periods, maybe raising if I'm doing well, or raising if it's been a very long time without a feature.

I don't think $12 is insanely large... if you pick two cents and hit max bet, it's $12 a spin.

I sometimes have sessions where I only play one game. If a game is doing well, I often stick with it.

If GoWild doesn't like how this player plays bonuses, then pay her and bonus ban her. Heck, ban her entirely after paying her winnings if you like. A sure way to have her never deposit and lose.

This is a slot game. I think even at 29x bonus, the odds favour the house.

These casinos seem to want it both ways. If you reduce your bet size after a big win, they often claim that you are abusing the bonus by not playing fairly. I had this issue a few times. I like to play rather big on slots ($10 per spin or so) but if I got to a high balance (2k or so), I liked to ride it out at $2 or so per spin. My reason was not that I wanted to abuse their bonus or that I did not want to gamble, but that I did not want to win an amount that the casino would not pay quickly. Most casinos have limits of around 2k-3k per payment period and furthermore, I felt I was less likely to have a hard time collecting if the win was less than 2k than if I got really lucky and kept winning at $10 per spin and hit for 10k.

This player played exactly the way a casino wanted them to and then had the audacity to complain. the player would have been better off reducing bets after the balance got to 2k to prevent winning an amount that got noticed!

Also, the part about "minimum to reach the wagering req" is amazing BS. When one hits big, they usually want to cashout immediately, not play more, so they play to the minimum. What is the point of a rule if it's really meant to mean something else.

This is absurd.

PS: Has the casino refunded the deposits to every player who deposited $200 and played $12 (or more) per spin on autoplay and busted out? I'd bet not.

 

[hausse222]

I hate it, when casinos, that mathematically always win for sure, acts like this if they have to pay out a lucky winner. This is nothing than rogue behavior. And the answer from the casinos rep in the other forum speaks for itself.
Perhaps the serbian police did right to raid the office of this company.

 

[chuchu59]

Strictly from the op's opening post I find nothing wrong with his play. In fact, I sometimes play like that myself. GoWild does itself no favours by not trying to explain the problem here and only resorting to pms. Even if the op got paid others will be wondering whether GW will pull the same trick on them. Needless to say, I will deposit less and possibly others as well who are afraid their winnings will be confiscated so arbitrarily.

 

[same_old]

Yeah I feel the same as most of you guys. I will keep an eye on this thread.

 

[Glunn11]

Was gonna post a response about a pretty blatant violation of a major accreditation credential, but saw that Bryan's already on the ball. Really hope this pans out. It's not looking good for GoWild right now.

 

[same_old]

The man played slots- right there is the house favour. he just SO happen to win on it. Who cares if it was $12 or $120 per spin. The odds are in the favour of the house. all this is doing is making those odds a lot more.

I mean I only played with a bonus last week and was hitting big ( my screenshots in the winner thread can confirm this) and I have to say I didnt play any different to what this person did,.

 

[threescatters]

Strange thing about GoWild:

The rule about having to bet less than 20% of your balance on GoWild when you have a bonus has a very hidden catch...

Almost always these rules say "you are not allowed to bet more than 30% of the amount of the bonus you got credited" or something along those lines. So fine, say you take a £100 bonus you cant bet more than £30 a go or you run the risk of winnings confiscation. Thats fine, and clearly laid out.

However at GoWild (and I confirmed this with the official rep via PM a long time ago as I was curious). The rule is 20%, and represents your entire balance at any given point! So say you are losing and your balance drops to £2. You cant have a final £2 spin on slots as your now betting your full balance and have run the risk of funds confiscation as you broke the term, youd only be allowed bets of up to 40p at that point!

This term to me is insane, you cant go bust without being in breach. And almost certainly anyone whos balance dips very low would probably be able to have winnings confiscated under it. Perhaps the OP had a balance of 60 or under at any point, if so then I guess its a T&C breach.


Personally, I have played a lot at gowild, both with and without bonuses. I have had some nice wins there and theyve always paid me quick. Nothing but courteous on live chat either.

if the OP is completely true then shame on gowild and pay up immediately please. if the OP is not entirely true we need to hear gowilds side of the story, and im afraid that post already in this thread from them is laughable

 

[Jufo]

However at GoWild (and I confirmed this with the official rep via PM a long time ago as I was curious). The rule is 20%, and represents your entire balance at any given point! So say you are losing and your balance drops to £2. You cant have a final £2 spin on slots as your now betting your full balance and have run the risk of funds confiscation as you broke the term, youd only be allowed bets of up to 40p at that point!

This term to me is insane, you cant go bust without being in breach. And almost certainly anyone whos balance dips very low would probably be able to have winnings confiscated under it. Perhaps the OP had a balance of 60 or under at any point, if so then I guess its a T&C breach.

I believe that it has been ruled at Casinomeister that the max bet rule is based only on your initial balance. So if you start with £100 bonus balance then with 20% rule you can bet anything less than £20 at any point, even if your balance is less than £20. If GoWild are really executing the rule like you write above, then that is clearly a rogue rule (impossible for the player to meet) and YET ANOTHER breach of accreditation.

 

[threescatters]

I believe that it has been ruled at Casinomeister that the max bet rule is based only on your initial balance. So if you start with £100 bonus balance then with 20% rule you can bet anything less than £20 at any point, even if your balance is less than £20. If GoWild are really executing the rule like you write above, then that is clearly a rogue rule (impossible for the player to meet) and YET ANOTHER breach of accreditation.

I had only good experiences at gowild, but what I wrote is how the term was explained to me by the rep.

 

[Jufo]

I had only good experiences at gowild, but what I wrote is how the term was explained to me by the rep.

You are probably going to get a different answer every time you ask.

 

[4 of a kind]

If GoWIld decides to pay this player in full regardless of why, do they remain accredited here?

 

[Nate]

If GoWIld decides to pay this player in full regardless of why, do they remain accredited here?

Asides from the OP's complaint, I would believe so. It would be harsh to remove accreditation based on a singular incident. The OP has brought it to our attention, Bryan and Max tackle it and deal with it from there.

I'm almost certain if they do it again, it would be fair to proceed with other means...

The thing I am concerned about is that Incidents of this nature usually crop up eventually. We cannot ascertain for certain IF this has been practiced for a while. If this was a once off misunderstanding sure... let it slip. But if this has been ongoing for a while, then it is a blatant breach of Accreditation Standards and should be dealt with immediately.

I certainly hope for Go Wilds sake it is just a misunderstanding.

Nate

 

[same_old]

It really does make you wonder though how often this happens and not just with GW.

We have only heard form the poster in this case as they seem to be savvy with the websites etc but what about the people that don't know how to submit complaints in when they happen?
Personally, I have had nothing but good thing to say about GW but this has left a bad taste in the mouth.

I mean don;t get me wrong. From what GW posted this is probably a good indicator to catch out who they call "Bonus abusers" but come on- out of 10 people doing this exact thing im sure nowhere near half would even make the wager requirement.

This person IS probably a bonus hunter (really don't care either way) but he/she has not done anything out of the ordinary than a lot of us have aswell. If,what the OP is saying IS true then I just cannot fault where he has gone wrong in this case.

I'm stumped

 

[zap987]

Lets get one thing clear, playing with a €200 deposit and €200 bonus, 29x WR on slots is absolutely +EV if betting as high as €12 and I would be very surprised if OP didn't know that. Doesn't really matter though since no rules were broken and she should get paid, but sadly it will also most likely mean terms get updated again to be even more restrictive which will hurt all the normal gamblers most.

 

[Marie2473]

I have read this whole thread and I can not see that the Op broke any rules (from what she said) And I hope that GoWild will honour the player and pay her her money (IF this is the whole story)
I have never really played at gowild, I dont know but I feel as if I have heard of too many problems in the past - which just makes me careful!

 

[Jufo]

Lets get one thing clear, playing with a €200 deposit and €200 bonus, 29x WR on slots is absolutely +EV if betting as high as €12 and I would be very surprised if OP didn't know that. Doesn't really matter though since no rules were broken and she should get paid, but sadly it will also most likely mean terms get updated again to be even more restrictive which will hurt all the normal gamblers most.

True. Most likely that style of play was +EV because of the chance to bust early on in the wagering (without knowing the standard deviation parameter of the game it's not possible to determine the expected value precisely). However, there is no rule or law that says that it is illegal to have positive expectation over the casino. It's the casino's responsibility to do financial risk assessments on how large and with what playthrough bonuses they can afford to offer. If the casino is unable to do such assessement, I would be happy to provide a risk assessment for them, for a fee of course.

 

[colly]

. However, there is no rule or law that says that it is illegal to have positive expectation over the casino. It's the casino's responsibility to do financial risk assessments on how large and with what playthrough bonuses they can afford to offer. If the casino is unable to do such assessement, I would be happy to provide such risk assessment for them, for a fee of course.

Like it

 

[4 of a kind]

Lets get one thing clear, playing with a €200 deposit and €200 bonus, 29x WR on slots is absolutely +EV if betting as high as €12 and I would be very surprised if OP didn't know that.

Under the above conditions this player has 33 spins before running the risk of being busted. Please provide the math that proves this is a positive EV investment on a random slot machine.

You may consider these stakes large but would be considered peanuts to many gamblers. Many players will play $5.00 machines @ $15.00 per spin and bust out of 1k in less then 15 minutes.

 

[Jufo]

Under the above conditions this player has 33 spins before running the risk of being busted. Please provide the math that proves this is a positive EV investment on a random slot machine.

I'd advice for you to research this on your own.

 

[4 of a kind]

Can you PM me with these facts?

 

[Jufo]

Can you PM me with these facts?

Sure.

 

[ksech]

/derail/
Just curious... Wondering how many gamblers in the cyberworld are getting "cheated" by online casinos every day simply because they don't know about places like Casinomeister...

/end of derail/

 

[snoddy]

Have been reading this thread. Astonishing, worrying, alarming.
I think if I was fortunate enough to win a large amount , at any casino accredited or not, I would be very worried about being paid. Seems like they find any excuse to avoid paying out.
I have had my fair share of issues with online casino's and when I read about stuff like this I have to question whether its really worth it.
I'm a tad disallusioned with it all.

 

[zap987]

Under the above conditions this player has 33 spins before running the risk of being busted. Please provide the math that proves this is a positive EV investment on a random slot machine.

You may consider these stakes large but would be considered peanuts to many gamblers. Many players will play $5.00 machines @ $15.00 per spin and bust out of 1k in less then 15 minutes.

What matters is the betsize in relation to the total amount of €400 that is bound by WR. Exactly because a player will bust out very fast quite often is what makes it +EV for the player, because busting out means not wagering. The casino gives €200 away and the only way they can make it back is by the player wagering. What matters is not the individual results for a single player but the combined results of a lot of players, which will give the casino something like 5% back on the total wagered, assuming 95% RTP on slots. It's quite counterintuitive, but if someone wagers only €400 the casino only makes €20 back of the initial €200 they gave out as a bonus, just that it's not that particular player getting the money, it's one of the others playing the same way that will hit a big win.

There are some old threads explaining it more in detail with examples but it doesn't matter much for this case since the player broke no rules and should get paid. Just did seem a lot of people weren't aware that this was quite clearly advantage play and it will be the regular players that will end up having to pay for it.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/new-rival-casinos-lost-the-bonus-plot.33486/ is one of these threads.

 

[SlotMonster]

There are some old threads explaining it more in detail with examples but it doesn't matter much for this case since the player broke no rules and should get paid. Just did seem a lot of people weren't aware that this was quite clearly advantage play and it will be the regular players that will end up having to pay for it.

Can someone please send me a links to these threads? It will be very interesting to read through them.

 

[chuchu59]

Have been reading this thread. Astonishing, worrying, alarming.
I think if I was fortunate enough to win a large amount , at any casino accredited or not, I would be very worried about being paid. Seems like they find any excuse to avoid paying out.
I have had my fair share of issues with online casino's and when I read about stuff like this I have to question whether its really worth it.
I'm a tad disallusioned with it all.

When times were good most casinos, some even bordering on the rogue, cared much about their reputation and would pay up if the player trumpeted their misdeeds openly provided the amounts involved were not massive. Ever since there was an issue over a payment over $270 at an rtg (cant remember name but it was an rtg) did I notice that reputation is starting to count less and even accredited casinos would try to pull tricks over players or at least start to do things that previously we thought were unthinkable. The JC group falls into this category as evidenced by the multiple threads on them lately and now its the turn of GoWild. It is common knowledge that a casino should not confiscate winnings with such vague terms such as 'not playing within the spirit of the bonus' yet for a sum of $3600 they tried it anyway. Dont tell me an accedited casino doesnt know CM's stance on this.

I am pretty certain more and more casinos, even accredited casinos, will try every trick in the book to deny players' winnings if they find 'something' to their advantage. I just hope I wont see the day when 32RED or 3 Dice does this.

 

[Jufo]

What matters is the betsize in relation to the total amount of €400 that is bound by WR. Exactly because a player will bust out very fast quite often is what makes it +EV for the player, because busting out means not wagering. The casino gives €200 away and the only way they can make it back is by the player wagering. What matters is not the individual results for a single player but the combined results of a lot of players, which will give the casino something like 5% back on the total wagered, assuming 95% RTP on slots. It's quite counterintuitive, but if someone wagers only €400 the casino only makes €20 back of the initial €200 they gave out as a bonus, just that it's not that particular player getting the money, it's one of the others playing the same way that will hit a big win.

There are some old threads explaining it more in detail with examples but it doesn't matter much for this case since the player broke no rules and should get paid. Just did seem a lot of people weren't aware that this was quite clearly advantage play and it will be the regular players that will end up having to pay for it.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/new-rival-casinos-lost-the-bonus-plot.33486/ is one of these threads.

Like you said, whether the game play in this case was +EV or not is irrelevant since the terms were not broken. Also playing in a +EV manner doesn't necessarily mean that the player is even aware of it. Can you accuse someone from abusing a bonus if they are completely oblivious to the mathematics of it? For example in the thread you linked KasinoKing conflicted himself by saying that the bonuses he has played cannot be +EV, yet he couldn't explain his five year long winning streak.

Also, referring to your post, I don't know if it's smart to post the details of mathematics of gaining an edge here, because it certainly isn't going to make bonuses any better.