GoWild don"t pay 3600€

[questa]

OP hasnt broken any specific terms, I dont see how it matters what way they played

Seems like the thread is going off at a bit of a tangent.

OP should be paid, if not GW should not be accredted. Simples

 

[SlotMonster]

In my opinion, and I expressed it in my first post in this thread, this situation even shouldn't have happened in CM accredited casino.

I agree with the statement that something is going on with the casino, is it had the nerve to confiscate player's winning for a reason, which even not high experienced online casino players found rather "strange".

I don't think this will ever happen with 3Dice and 32Red, as their reputation among players (and thus, their financial situation) allows them to pay out huge amounts in winning, not giving a f*** on $3600 won by legitimate player.

It is unacceptable for CM accredited casino even CONSIDER a possibility of confiscating players' winnings for not playing within the "spirit of the bonus". But they used it, and used consciously, according to what was posted on the OP. I think this issue should NOT be dealing with privately in PM and casino Rep should post public statement with an explanation on the whole situation. And I also think that Bryan should reconsider their accreditation, because this case was a BIG step in "Rogue Pit" direction. Just my opinion.

 

[LaHutti]

In my opinion, and I expressed it in my first post in this thread, this situation even shouldn't have happened in CM accredited casino.

I agree with the statement that something is going on with the casino, is it had the nerve to confiscate player's winning for a reason, which even not high experienced online casino players found rather "strange".

I don't think this will ever happen with 3Dice and 32Red, as their reputation among players (and thus, their financial situation) allows them to pay out huge amounts in winning, not giving a f*** on $3600 won by legitimate player.

It is unacceptable for CM accredited casino even CONSIDER a possibility of confiscating players' winnings for not playing within the "spirit of the bonus". But they used it, and used consciously, according to what was posted on the OP. I think this issue should NOT be dealing with privately in PM and casino Rep should post public statement with an explanation on the whole situation. And I also think that Bryan should reconsider their accreditation, because this case was a BIG step in "Rogue Pit" direction. Just my opinion.

I agree, that trying to "cut a deal" in private, to shut this player up is NOT the way it should be done. The casino needs to make it clear, whether they're paying this player in full, or not.
Imo there is NO other right solution than paying them the full amount, that they won fair and square.

 

[SlotMonster]

I agree, that trying to "cut a deal" in private, to shut this player up is NOT the way it should be done. The casino needs to make it clear, whether they're paying this player in full, or not.
Imo there is NO other right solution than paying them the full amount, that they won fair and square.

IMO, just paying a player is NOT ENOUGH. It's still interesting to hear the reason "why"

 

[rainmaker]

I agree with you SlotMonster.

And what worries me here, is that this case has been handled by GoWild staff higher up in their system (forum reps, fraud management etc). This isn't just a misunderstanding done by an inexperienced CS rep or something.

And their reply in the other forum is really as bad as it gets. I mean, they are actually confiscating the winnings based on:

The player

1. deposited max amount
2. used the auto-spin feature
3. only played one game
4. used the same bet amount

I mean, this has to be one of the most unacceptable explanation I have ever seen from an accredited casino.

If GoWild don`t like the fact that players occasionally will have some luck and profit when using a bonus (believe it or not GoWild, but slot games are all about luck), then they need to stop offering them.

If GoWild don`t like players to use the auto-spin feature, then they need to ask Microgaming to remove this from their software or change software supplier.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Like you said, whether the game play in this case was +EV or not is irrelevant since the terms were not broken. Also playing in a +EV manner doesn't necessarily mean that the player is even aware of it. Can you accuse someone from abusing a bonus if they are completely oblivious to the mathematics of it? For example in the thread you linked KasinoKing conflicted himself by saying that the bonuses he has played cannot be +EV, yet he couldn't explain his five year long winning streak.

Also, referring to your post, I don't know if it's smart to post the details of mathematics of gaining an edge here, because it certainly isn't going to make bonuses any better.

It's only +EV if you can do it over and over. You CANNOT do this at GoWild because they have no sister casinos, and they can easily bonus ban any player who wins, or even loses, from the SUB if they feel thay are trying a strategy that worries them. Even if they did open sister casinos, a one SUB over the whole group policy will deal with the multiple attempt issue.

This excuse gives them the scope to more or less confiscate winnings at will, as what seems to have happened here is that they first decided to confiscate the winnings, and then constructed the reason why based on the way the player played.

What if the player had bet €10, or even €5, and ended up with a similar big hit? What if they had played manually, but in exactly the same manner, and same amount. It's not the autoplay that lets you count WR accurately, but the "stats" function that you can click on to see how many spins you have made, and at €12 per spin, the amount wagered can be calculated exactly. Autoplay resets it's counter every time you hit a feature, so you lose the information needed to set it to an exact amount wagered.

They also claim to know a fair bit about what the OP did when sat in front of her PC, did they peek through the curtains as she played

 

[questa]

Even if the player used a 'strategy,' oreny other tactic, as long as they didnt break any terms listed oreny other term they should definately be paid. If there is any mystery oren igma here, it is it. A player who has read the terms would not risk orendanger their winnings by breaching them and the Op should not haggle orenter into any agreement, they should be payed, whether they are forengn, whether they speak finnish oren glish. We dont want to find ourselves restricted oren slaved at these orenline casinoes. thats for su oren

 

[Nate]

I would have assumed that the Rep for Go Wild would have at least responded by now? Why the silence?

Nate

 

[vinylweatherman]

I would have assumed that the Rep for Go Wild would have at least responded by now? Why the silence?

Nate

Weekend?

The rep was negotiating in private, and may not want to jump in with a responce just yet. The current "excuse" would not go down too well here

Maybe things will get moving next week.

It seems Bryan is already aware of what is going on, so there is no way GoWild can dodge the issue.

 

[Nate]

Possibly,

'GoWildGaming' has been monitoring the thread for some time. In any event, I do not want to interfere with any process that is already underway. I await the explanation ....

Nate

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi guys 'n gals,

It's a weekend, so this is why things are rather quiet concerning this issue. I have been assured that this player will be treated fairly - more tomorrow.

 

[Gia - GoWild]

Hi guys,

The casino manager reviewed the case and decided the player was indeed correct and did not violate any of the casino terms; this was only a mistake in the gameplay evaluation of our finance and fraud team.

We appreciate all the feedback and we will keep striving to improve all our services.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused and take full responsibility for this honest mistake.

The player will be paid fully.

Gia

 

[same_old]

There you are Anja077, A much deserved thank you to Gia and Bryan fits this situation I think!!

You could even throw a lazy $50 to one of Casinomeisters Charities for the work.

Link Outdated / Removed

 

[chuchu59]

Thanks for the reply Gia. GW, and for that matter other casinos, should learn from this and refrain from making hasty decisions in future . One would have thought that a lot of effort had been put into this before they formed a conclusion. However, it seems not to be the case. The amount in question is quite large but not staggering by any means so players will justifiably be worried of what could befall them if they won likewise. I know its lean pickings for the casinos during these economic times but this is something you have to endure.

 

[same_old]

Thanks for the reply Gia. GW, and for that matter other casinos, should learn from this and refrain from making hasty decisions in future . One would have thought that a lot of effort had been put into this before they formed a conclusion. However, it seems not to be the case. The amount in question is quite large but not staggering by any means so players will justifiably be worried of what could befall them if they won likewise. I know its lean pickings for the casinos during these economic times but this is something you have to endure.

I agree!

Casino's COULD even go to the extent of passing a case onto Bryan who THEY think might not be on the up and up and get his or Max's opinion on it. They got years dealing with this type of stuff seeing it from all platforms. They could give some good information to help them make decisions like this.

This way the casino doesn't get tarnished so to speak and Bryan could even make the reply on behalf of the casino's in some cases, if they want him to.

 

[4 of a kind]

Hi guys,

The casino manager reviewed the case and decided the player was indeed correct and did not violate any of the casino terms; this was only a mistake in the gameplay evaluation of our finance and fraud team.

Gia

If I could make a suggestion here:

Maybe the manager should also review all other past denied winnings under the same circumstances. Maybe there are other winners that didn’t know where to go to get help, and have been overlooked.

 

[everyday]

While I am very happy that the player will receive her winnings, I have to say that this case has left me very disturbed. IMHO following the rules for bonus play may not be enough any longer and I can't shake the feeling that this could happen to any of us, at any time, in our favorite accredited casinos. This "spirit" issue is being taken to new heights. Sure the "it's only a mistake" can be corrected but not before the player is put through a lot of argument and grief. It just isn't right.

 

[chuchu59]

While I am very happy that the player will receive her winnings, I have to say that this case has left me very disturbed. IMHO following the rules for bonus play may not be enough any longer and I can't shake the feeling that this could happen to any of us, at any time, in our favorite accredited casinos. This "spirit" issue is being taken to new heights. Sure the "it's only a mistake" can be corrected but not before the player is put through a lot of argument and grief. It just isn't right.

Dont tell me GW didnt expect players to adopt this line of thinking. They chose to arbitrarily confiscate winnings in the full knowledge that many like-minded players will be wary of similar misfortunes that could befall them in future yet chose to take this route regardless of the consequences. Seems they are severely cash-strapped.

 

[4 of a kind]

Player opened an account with GoWiild Casino, deposited maximum amount right away - maximizing the slot bonus offer using auto spin feature while setting up the auto spins to stop when the minimal play-through is complete.
Further more, Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game, making sure the minimum amount needed to complete the wagering has been achieved. Immediately after the player has requested a withdrawal"


We all know this is not just a mistake. Appears to be a lot of thought and explanations to come to that conclusion. But members should also realize this is a greedy business only because they could get away with anything they want with no consequences. Unfortunately, for the casino the OP found this place where they must protect their alleged Accredited rating here. Do you realize how many of the 20/30/40/50 dollar deposits they would have to accumulate to cover just this one winner?

Times are lean for everyone including online gaming.

Not that anyone here has the final say, but just a friendly question; What does everyone here think about them staying accredited?

 

[LaHutti]

I have to say, that despite this player being paid, this leaves a very bad taste.
Can't help but wonder how many other players they did this, or something simular to, and got away with it.
It's by no means just an "honest mistake". They deliberately came up with this BS, with one intention...to keep this players winnings, and ONLY because the player found this place, and made it public, will they get their money. Doesn't make ME feel all warm and fuzzy about the casino at all.

 

[deepsky2]

If this casino stick to their reason for confiscating 3600,- they deserve the pit. That's my honest opinion.
THEY set the rules all the way, and the player followed their rules 100% and got lucky.
Behavior like this is nothing short of rogue behavior, and personally I will not put 5 cents more into this casino, until this player has been paid in full, and I hope everyone else will follow this example.
Just outrageous.

Im with you all the way...................I loved GW but they quickly became one of my least favour and because of this player issue I have deleted the casino software and will not consider them untill they pay and see a improvement in there services.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi guys,

The casino manager reviewed the case and decided the player was indeed correct and did not violate any of the casino terms; this was only a mistake in the gameplay evaluation of our finance and fraud team.

We appreciate all the feedback and we will keep striving to improve all our services.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused and take full responsibility for this honest mistake.

The player will be paid fully.

Gia

.......is the correct answer.

Unfortunately, subsequent posts demonstrate that the damage has already been done, and now discussion is centered on the belief that this surely can't just be a "mistake", but a completely wrong line of thinking in determining whether players should have winnings confiscated.
In addition, the player has ALREADY gone to a mediator, and it was only when this failed that they came here, so why was this mistake not spotted at the first appeal.

This only goes to prove that the current appeals process is flawed, as it took far too much effort for the player to get a fair decision. One internal appeal failed, and then the first third party mediation attempt failed.

From the gameplay description alone, there doesn't even seem to be a case for review, so the question remains as to why play that was so obviously within the terms was ever sent up for said review in the first place.

It does seem that an early decision was taken that they didn't want to pay this player, and the review was more to do with coming up with a valid reason for confiscation. This meant that the review process was unfair, as the result was either predetermined, or the process was undertaken with an initial bias towards not paying.

To be honest, I would have been prepared to play a bonus just like this, and have done in the past without it causing any problems. I just choose different slots, but ALWAYS slots when it is a sign-up bonus, even if games such as Blackjack are allowed. This is because playing Blackjack and similar games with a welcome bonus gives the casino the wrong initial impression, a bit like turning up to a job interview in jeans and trainers would.

The other side of the coin is that the CASINO can give a bad initial impression by acting with haste, and this is what has happened here. Many slots players, the ones casinos make most of their money from, will be put off from trying any casino that has even the slightest history of confiscating winnings from slots only play. Many slots players are "recreational", and any argument about whether you can mathematically manipulate slots play to make it +EV is over their heads, and likely to be seen as "bullshit excuses" in order to avoid paying winners, even if there is mathematical evidence that a particular method of play IS +EV, which has been argued to be true in this case, but ONLY where an "infinite" number of identical opportunities are presented to such a player, and GoWild are in full control of all opportunities granted to such a player beyond the first (i.e., no more bonuses).

 

[Nate]

I agree, although the OP will be paid, this is a far cry from an 'honest mistake'.

Their Fraud team are looking for flags like these and then use T&C's which are clearly against the standards of accreditation to confiscate winnings. They have even made their decision public on another board because they were so confident about it.

Go Wild - I am not making matters seem worse than they are, this is truly an eye opener as to what even Accredited outfits can get up to. Being accredited means you MUST be squeaky clean and WILL be subject to intense scrutiny. You must follow the rules!!

'deposited maximum amount right away maximizing the slot bonus offer' - You OFFER a match bonus up to a certain percentage - Is it now a crime to take the full bonus?

'using auto spin feature while setting up the auto spins to stop when the minimal play-through is complete' - You OFFER auto play and specify that the bonus must be wagered a 'MINIMUM' of xxx in order for it to be completed. Isn't this the reason for attaching wagering? Is the minimum wagering actually NOT the minimum? When the Minimum WR is achieved, Its used as a reason to deny winnings?

'Further more, Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game, making sure the minimum amount needed to complete the wagering has been achieved. Immediately after the player has requested a withdrawal' - Since when are players required to play more than one game? Since when do we need to vary our bet size? Since when must we continue even after the wagering has been achieved?

You can't subject bonus money to wagering then throw in extra unwritten requirements in order for the casino to come out on top. Accept that a player CAN and WILL deposit $20 and cash out $3000... I have done this and haven't been treated like a rogue player... You are trying to make it impossible for a player to win with behavior like this..... This is Rogue behavior at the very least.

GIA - Advise us who actually represents Go Wild and dished out the above explanation of the confiscation?

Nate

 

[everyday]

I agree, although the OP will be paid, this is a far cry from an 'honest mistake'.

Their Fraud team are looking for flags like these and then use T&C's which are clearly against the standards of accreditation to confiscate winnings. They have even made their decision public on another board because they were so confident about it.

That is what bothered me most. Alarm bells should have been ringing when GW composed their response to the player on AskGamblers. And her case was obviously reviewed again for further responses. While I am not as experienced at understanding casino management as many others are here, this felt like a roguish response right from the start. I have taken GW off of my accredited list and what the powers that be here at CM decide to do is, of course respectfully, up to them.

 

[rainmaker]

It is great to see that the player will be paid.

But like others here, I am quite disappointed with the last reply from GoWild in this thread.