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Eastern European surnames: I and Y

Discussion in 'Ask the Meister' started by maxd, Jun 17, 2009.

    Jun 17, 2009
  1. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    I'm wondering if anyone out there can tell me why Eastern Europeans will often spell their names more than one way. For instance I have a PAB person from Hungary who sometimes spells her name as Kaprovari, with an 'i', and sometimes as Kaprovary, with a 'y'.

    [That's not her real name by the way, just using it as an example]

    So why the i/y difference? Just curious.
     
  2. Jun 17, 2009
  3. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    In case of Hungarian (latin alphabet) this might be an explanation
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    I had always tought that only those who use the Cyrillic alphabet used either i, y or sometimes j (so I got curious too).
    Like Jevgeni/Yevgeny
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2009
  4. Jun 17, 2009
  5. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Hmm, interesting, but unfortunately I don't see how it applies in this case. On her Hungarian passport her name ends as "VARI" with an acute accent on the 'A':
    [​IMG]

    So I guess I'm saying (a) not sure that the accent on the 'A' would affect the 'I', and (b) I still don't understand how the Hungarian 'I' becomes both 'I' and 'Y' in English.

    Thanks for the link though, did learn a thing or four from it.
     
  6. Jun 17, 2009
  7. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    Yes, Im a bit puzzled too. Pronounced as an y? shouldnt matter tough. Any Hungarians in the forum? Please, we need to know:)
     
  8. Jun 19, 2009
  9. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    GM sent me this via PM (reprinted with permission):
    I thought that was a useful contribution to the subject.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jun 19, 2009
  11. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Reference:

    :D
     
  12. Jun 22, 2009
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    This isn't playground stuff. :p

    This is important since we'll get PABs where the person is spelling his/her name differently. We need to know why :D

    There are some casinos who are unfamiliar with this and may peg the player as trying to commit player fraud. That's all.
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Jun 22, 2009
  15. zuga

    zuga Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Belgrade, Serbia
    Hungary is not in the Eastern Europe ;)
     
  16. Jun 22, 2009
  17. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    :oops: Yes, I've just been told that. I'm from Canada so ... understandable mistake I think. To us anything East of Germany is Eastern Europe. Live and learn. :cool:

    Also, I've had more info on this spelling thing. A helpful reader said:
     
  18. Jun 23, 2009
  19. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Hmm..open to debate:

    UN

    The United Nations Statistics Division considers Eastern Europe to consist of the following ten countries: Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Ukraine. The assignment of countries or areas to specific groupings is for statistical convenience and does not imply any assumption regarding political or other affiliation of countries or territories by the United Nations

    CIA

    The CIA World Factbookdescribes the following countries as located in:

    * Central Europe: Austria, Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia
    * Eastern Europe: Belarus, Estonia[16], Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova and Ukraine
    * Southeastern Europe: Albania, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo (Semi-recognised as a country), Republic of Macedonia, Romania, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey
    * Russia is defined as a transcontinental country.

    You must register/login in order to see the link. :D
     
  20. Jun 23, 2009
  21. zuga

    zuga Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Belgrade, Serbia
    Speaking in geographical terms Hungary is in Central Europe.

    But there was a time when Hungary was part of the Eastern communist block , so one can argue that Hungary is indeed Eastern European country..

    But thats only outdated political observation, especially since Hungary is now in the EU.


    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  22. Jun 23, 2009
  23. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I guess I'm outdated - anything East of Bavaria is Eastern Europe to me :p
     
  24. Jun 23, 2009
  25. brucefinaldi

    brucefinaldi Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Affiliate Director
    Location:
    Cyprus
    I believe it has to do with the fact that it is based upon the fact that when looking at a named based upon the transliteration, one can see where the surname's geographic history comes from.

    So for example if you have a name that is the same (ex. Greenberg), it can be spelled several ways -

    Greenberg
    Greenburgh
    Greeburg
    Grynberg
    Greenburghe

    All this names may have the same historical background and even meaning (greenberg may mean green mountain in certain cultures). But it is the spelling of the name where it can placed to a gepgraphical or ethnic location.

    Last Name Example -

    John
    Jon
    Sean
    Shawn

    All meaning John, one may be english, one may be Irish (Sean).

    This is why.

    Just my 2 cents, I hoped this helped, and if it didn't help, I tried!

    Take Care,

    Bruce
     
  26. Jun 23, 2009
  27. brucefinaldi

    brucefinaldi Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Affiliate Director
    Location:
    Cyprus
    Regarding Hungary,

    The Hungarians are Magyars. I believe originally coming from the Ural Altai tribes of Central Asia. This being said, the Hungarian culture has many differences when compared to it's neighbors.

    When people generally speak about Eastern Europe, they are generally speaking about people's of Slavic Origin (correct me if I am wrong).

    Specifically in the case of Hungarians, they see themselves as Central European, but they are not Germanic in ethnic history.

    Hungary also has an amazing cuisine that is much different from it's neighbors, another indicator of Hungary's Magyar past (being from central Asia).

    Cheers,

    Bruce
     
    1 person likes this.

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