Eastern European surnames: I and Y

[maxd]

I'm wondering if anyone out there can tell me why Eastern Europeans will often spell their names more than one way. For instance I have a PAB person from Hungary who sometimes spells her name as Kaprovari, with an 'i', and sometimes as Kaprovary, with a 'y'.

[That's not her real name by the way, just using it as an example]

So why the i/y difference? Just curious.

 

[Tengil]

In case of Hungarian (latin alphabet) this might be an explanation

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I had always tought that only those who use the Cyrillic alphabet used either i, y or sometimes j (so I got curious too).
Like Jevgeni/Yevgeny

 

[maxd]

Hmm, interesting, but unfortunately I don't see how it applies in this case. On her Hungarian passport her name ends as "VARI" with an acute accent on the 'A':
Attach Removed (Old not found)

So I guess I'm saying (a) not sure that the accent on the 'A' would affect the 'I', and (b) I still don't understand how the Hungarian 'I' becomes both 'I' and 'Y' in English.

Thanks for the link though, did learn a thing or four from it.

 

[Tengil]

Yes, Im a bit puzzled too. Pronounced as an y? shouldnt matter tough. Any Hungarians in the forum? Please, we need to know

 

[maxd]

GM sent me this via PM (reprinted with permission):

The suffix -i in Hungarian forms an adjective meaning "from a certain place", and there are many surnames of this kind. Before Hungarian spelling was regulated and standardized, both -i and -y were used, and this survives in surnames, otherwise the letter y only occurs in the combinations gy, ly and ty and in foreign loanwords. It is just about possible that someone might have documents showing his surname with two different spellings.

I thought that was a useful contribution to the subject.

 

[RobWin]

I'm wondering if anyone out there can tell me why Eastern Europeans will often spell their names more than one way.

Why does other people's spelling & grammar even matter eh? Playground stuff.

Reference:

 

[The Dude]

This isn't playground stuff.

This is important since we'll get PABs where the person is spelling his/her name differently. We need to know why

There are some casinos who are unfamiliar with this and may peg the player as trying to commit player fraud. That's all.

 

[zuga]

Hungary is not in the Eastern Europe

 

[maxd]

Hungary is not in the Eastern Europe

Yes, I've just been told that. I'm from Canada so ... understandable mistake I think. To us anything East of Germany is Eastern Europe. Live and learn.

Also, I've had more info on this spelling thing. A helpful reader said:

For instance my surname is pronounced something like ----esi, where s not the English noun s like "sun", but rather the German sch like schn.

When I pronounce my name, and somebody wants to write it down, there is room for mis-spelling in writing due to heritage variants, the following are all possible and pronounced almost identically: ----esi, ----esy, ----essi, ----essy. The same applies for surnames ending --asi (--asy, --assi, --assy) and a lot of other endings.

If a name ends like "vary", then if somebody else writes your name, then it is also possible to write it as "vari". The vari is the common one (means that somebody is from a location where there's a castle, "var" is castle, "vari" is something like a "Berliner" in German, if Berlin would also mean castle ), the "vary" is a bit archaic.

 

[The Dude]

Hungary is not in the Eastern Europe

Hmm..open to debate:

UN

The United Nations Statistics Division considers Eastern Europe to consist of the following ten countries: Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Ukraine. The assignment of countries or areas to specific groupings is for statistical convenience and does not imply any assumption regarding political or other affiliation of countries or territories by the United Nations

CIA

The CIA World Factbookdescribes the following countries as located in:

* Central Europe: Austria, Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia
* Eastern Europe: Belarus, Estonia[16], Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova and Ukraine
* Southeastern Europe: Albania, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo (Semi-recognised as a country), Republic of Macedonia, Romania, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey
* Russia is defined as a transcontinental country.

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[zuga]

Speaking in geographical terms Hungary is in Central Europe.

But there was a time when Hungary was part of the Eastern communist block , so one can argue that Hungary is indeed Eastern European country..

But thats only outdated political observation, especially since Hungary is now in the EU.

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[The Dude]

...But thats only outdated political observation...

I guess I'm outdated - anything East of Bavaria is Eastern Europe to me

 

[brucefinaldi]

I believe it has to do with the fact that it is based upon the fact that when looking at a named based upon the transliteration, one can see where the surname's geographic history comes from.

So for example if you have a name that is the same (ex. Greenberg), it can be spelled several ways -

Greenberg
Greenburgh
Greeburg
Grynberg
Greenburghe

All this names may have the same historical background and even meaning (greenberg may mean green mountain in certain cultures). But it is the spelling of the name where it can placed to a gepgraphical or ethnic location.

Last Name Example -

John
Jon
Sean
Shawn

All meaning John, one may be english, one may be Irish (Sean).

This is why.

Just my 2 cents, I hoped this helped, and if it didn't help, I tried!

Take Care,

Bruce

 

[brucefinaldi]

Regarding Hungary,

The Hungarians are Magyars. I believe originally coming from the Ural Altai tribes of Central Asia. This being said, the Hungarian culture has many differences when compared to it's neighbors.

When people generally speak about Eastern Europe, they are generally speaking about people's of Slavic Origin (correct me if I am wrong).

Specifically in the case of Hungarians, they see themselves as Central European, but they are not Germanic in ethnic history.

Hungary also has an amazing cuisine that is much different from it's neighbors, another indicator of Hungary's Magyar past (being from central Asia).

Cheers,

Bruce