Do you ever think how much you win isn't random?

Slotter

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I'm sure it's all random (at least in some way) but I feel I see consistently repeating patterns. Take for instance Bonanza's bonus game. It seems like there are 3 types of result you will get -
(1) The dead bonus where all but 2 or 3 of the spins are dead and the paying ones only yield micro-wins.
(2) The money-back bonus that somehow comes out to the amount you just lost in that session and
(3) The big-win bonus that pays maybe 500x+ giving you maybe 70% of your losses back from a losing streak you've maybe been on for a while to keep you interested and stimulate your brain's reward pathway.

I draw similar patterns of behaviour with the reel wins too but with those also adding it feels like you're more likely to hit a decent reel win if you have lost a fair bit in that session.

That's most probably all nonsense ;) but that's the way it feels to me sometimes when patterns seem to consistently repeat.
 

Lincolnuk

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I Love the shouts of where's the evidence to say its rigged!. I Have always been on the fence but lets roll with it as i enjoy playing the games as much as the gamble. But i want to just had that as mentioned this is a multi billion industry so unless you also have your own evidence that its not rigged then there is not any. Casino world is full of owners that would happily pay a fine for a breach/undercut and im sure plenty of Bribes and back hands have been passed around at times to turn blind eyes
 

CasinoNinja

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I Love the shouts of where's the evidence to say its rigged!. I Have always been on the fence but lets roll with it as i enjoy playing the games as much as the gamble. But i want to just had that as mentioned this is a multi billion industry so unless you also have your own evidence that its not rigged then there is not any. Casino world is full of owners that would happily pay a fine for a breach/undercut and im sure plenty of Bribes and back hands have been passed around at times to turn blind eyes

But they don't need it, they have an house edge of 4% (or more!) in most cases, so they have a steady income, and the more customers they have the more they will get.

House always wins remember.
 

Mr_Slot5

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But they don't need it, they have an house edge of 4% (or more!) in most cases, so they have a steady income, and the more customers they have the more they will get.

House always wins remember.
And since when has a ‘steady income’ sufficed in the business world?
 

Lincolnuk

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But they don't need it, they have an house edge of 4% (or more!) in most cases, so they have a steady income, and the more customers they have the more they will get.

House always wins remember.

I know but as i say. why settle for a million as a steady income to your business when you can make 2/3/4 times more. we are all human and everyone is driven by Greed and hunger for more. Including this industry
 

CasinoNinja

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I know but as i say. why settle for a million as a steady income to your business when you can make 2/3/4 times more. we are all human and everyone is driven by Greed and hunger for more. Including this industry

But so far, there hasn't been anything like that from slot end, if you think all the casinos and providers are in on it. Proof would have come out by now. There would be simply too much risk. Why risk something like that which would surely ban you as a provider when you already have other tools to increase your income, like reduce RTP which seems to happen more and more, even with newer slots. Thunderkick has a slot that has only one RTP and its at 94% odd.

There are ofcourse shady things happening, like Corals replacing Play and Go with fake helpfile showing higher RTP then they actually had, but that was the casino end, they have no influence over the actual gameplay of the slots which is on the provider side.
 

Buffalo Bill

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If you can spot these events then why bother gambling on the days when you “know” you can’t win?
 

Lincolnuk

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But so far, there hasn't been anything like that from slot end, if you think all the casinos and providers are in on it. Proof would have come out by now. There would be simply too much risk. Why risk something like that which would surely ban you as a provider when you already have other tools to increase your income, like reduce RTP which seems to happen more and more, even with newer slots. Thunderkick has a slot that has only one RTP and its at 94% odd.

There are ofcourse shady things happening, like Corals replacing Play and Go with fake helpfile showing higher RTP then they actually had, but that was the casino end, they have no influence over the actual gameplay of the slots which is on the provider side.
I was only making a reference to people shouting about where's the evidence saying there's something dodgy, Saying that before they shout for it people need to look for balanced evidence. Its only the same as tax fraud in a sense of speaking, Some get away with it some don't, Sometimes those that get caught have made many millions vanish before getting found out.. Just as a example a company could make millions by saying a slot was paying 94% when really it was only paying 85%.. With the amount of money around there's plenty to get people to turn a blind eye.
As for you would have found out by now then no not necessarily, Some businesses' have scammed the market for 30-40 years before been found out. Boots UK avoided Tax for many years by bouncing money all over so why shouldn't a casino/ game supplier try a fiddle or 2. Im going to leave this here as i was just making the point that it can and will happen but i play as im paying for entertainment with chance. Not to go out and get a sack full of money
 

McCutie323

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Like if u get a big win and manage to withdraw it. U will lose every deposit in 10mins for next couple months on that casino but swap casinos and the same games are generous as.. Or if u use ur loyalty points u spent months accumulating lol progress slows down significantly for a while.

I never play hot games.. Its like reverse psychology. Play these. They are winning.. 10 mins and u got 7 winning spins if that. Not even trigger a free spins bonus that yeilds nothing. Just one epic fail. Thats the thing that sets me off in to revenge gambling lol. YOU. WILL. PAY. ME... 100dollars later and its bed time to cry into my pillow lol
 

neon claws

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I was only making a reference to people shouting about where's the evidence saying there's something dodgy, Saying that before they shout for it people need to look for balanced evidence.
The burden of proof falls upon the accuser. Although that's something most flat earthers and other conspiracy theory folk often forget.

Its only the same as tax fraud in a sense of speaking, Some get away with it some don't, Sometimes those that get caught have made many millions vanish before getting found out..
But it's not like that at all. Every single game is audited, very few people are audited for tax purposes and if they've been cheating they will be caught.

Just as a example a company could make millions by saying a slot was paying 94% when really it was only paying 85%..
Except they wouldn't make any more, probably less, think about it; most people have a set gambling budget (usually whatever money they have) - they deposit it and play through, so long as the RTP is less than 100% they invariably lose it, the only difference the RTP makes is how quickly.
Now from a player experience point of view the casinos will want you to feel like you've "got your monies worth" which means a long play time, which means a high RTP.. Both would result in you losing your bankroll but one makes you feel a bit less sour because hey, at least you spent the entire evening doing it.

With the amount of money around there's plenty to get people to turn a blind eye.
Yes but what you are saying would require EVERYONE from the management, to the programmers, to the auditors and to anyone at all who decides to do their own checking (if you are so sure then go do a million spins and track your findings, a lower than advertised TRTP would show up pretty quickly) to keep quiet. I've worked with many, many programmers and there's no way it wouldn't have got out if there were underhanded tactics at play.

Im going to leave this here as i was just making the point that it can and will happen
This is the calling card or the conspiracy theorist; once faced with hard questions or asked to provide a shred of proof you always just bow out of the argument so you can live with your head perpetually in the sand.
 

Mr_Slot5

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Yes but what you are saying would require EVERYONE from the management, to the programmers, to the auditors and to anyone at all who decides to do their own checking (if you are so sure then go do a million spins and track your findings, a lower than advertised TRTP would show up pretty quickly) to keep quiet. I've worked with many, many programmers and there's no way it wouldn't have got out if there were underhanded tactics at play.
A lot of the time auditing means very little. Some of the things I've heard about in my previous places of work to pass audits (massive well known companies)...allied to the fact that the auditors generally don't just turn up, with prior warnings often given. Quite easy to get the house in order when you know they're coming. Never really seen the point in auditing or other inspections if you're going to announce when you're coming.

Not disputing what you're saying btw, just thought I'd chip in with the real world happenings :p Dodgy stuff goes on in pretty much every profession, it's naïve to think it doesn't.
 
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neon claws

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Sure, but saying that because some things happen in one industry they are happening in another totally different industry is nonsensical. Auditing for online slots isn't optional and is highly regulated.
It's like saying my mate lied about his uncle working at Nintendo so NASA probably lied about landing on the moon.

Actually it's even worse, because with a rudimentary effort you could prove that slots are cheating you.

I'm sure the idea has been floated before but what about a Are Slots Rigged? Megathread all these posts get dumped into?
 

Mr_Slot5

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Sure, but saying that because some things happen in one industry they are happening in another totally different industry is nonsensical. Auditing for online slots isn't optional and is highly regulated.
It's like saying my mate lied about his uncle working at Nintendo so NASA probably lied about landing on the moon.

Actually it's even worse, because with a rudimentary effort you could prove that slots are cheating you.

I'm sure the idea has been floated before but what about a Are Slots Rigged? Megathread all these posts get dumped into?
Oh I agree. Impossible to compare retail, for example, to a highly regulated financial based industry like the online casino business. Was just making a general point really.
 

flyingguy

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Just for the record, I was merely sharing my observations on how in many years of slotting the patterns become remarkably predictable. I don't have a theory as to how or I why, but it seems I'm not the only one. I'm sure in testing over billions of spins the RTP adds up correctly, but for the average player it seems to create very consistent patterns of behaviour.
 

brianmon

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Except they wouldn't make any more, probably less, think about it; most people have a set gambling budget (usually whatever money they have) - they deposit it and play through, so long as the RTP is less than 100% they invariably lose it, the only difference the RTP makes is how quickly.
Now from a player experience point of view the casinos will want you to feel like you've "got your monies worth" which means a long play time, which means a high RTP.. Both would result in you losing your bankroll but one makes you feel a bit less sour because hey, at least you spent the entire evening doing it.
So the current trend in lowering RTP by casinos is NOT to make more money. But just to make the customer experience WORSE, by giving fewer spins for the money??
 

Slotplayer83

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They advertise with "Not a way to earn money"

How big are the odds that on avg your deposits vs 96 ~ 98% of RTP will be returned to you overall.

I mean,
Do you guys really believe every spin is truely random? I can recall a countless times, doing 3 5 7 deposits of 50 euro each and at some point in my session get back to my initial (overall) deposits to the point of losing it straight again.

Believe what you want to believe; your wins are pretty much staked at what you initially deposit.
 

Slotplayer83

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Ive quite had it countless times to be honest, and if you want to try and experience this yourself; or at least "test" my theory; make a 50 deposit. Buy a 50 euro bonus. Just fly straight into it. If there's a gamble feature dont gamble. Take the base given bonus.

The outcome is usually 96% of your deposit, or if your lucky a "win" above your deposit. But countless times i always wagered my initial deposit. Sometimes i could lose 2 times and upon the third deposit play "even" if you know what i mean.

The difference when playing at 40 to 80 cents stakes on a 50 euro deposit is the same outcome or yield sort of say then when buying a bonus of 50 euro. The result is just faster.

My theory is that the winning big random fancy shit is nothing more then a random evenly distributed jackpot by usually the provider. The casino is signed with the provider. And why woud'nt it be all wagering ~ 96 to 97% being distributed among players on that provider.

Casino cant lose on the long term with a model like this. Players get their entertainment but never get this advantage on the house either. 3 months ago i won 5k i believe and i blew it on extra chilli bonus buys. I lost 'm all. No big deal, because i know in a while i will be at that very same level. And yep; my threshold this time was around 8k. Pretty much was in line with what i depositted over the course of those months, weeks. I lost the 8k again, because i just want to kick it to 20k and call it a day. Now i'm having a extreme cold streak from here to tokio, but at some point the slots will go wide open again for me, where i believe i should be able to push it to 12k. This all just simply depends on the deposits ive done over the last course of time. Perhaps its a security feature, players shoudnt be losing, i dont know.

The same is happening with another casino i play on. It took 3k of deposits upon signup to finally win something. I hit a wall while i was ahead. I lost that amount of money. It was only 2 deposits to kick it back to that "same" level again. I hit a wall but this time on a tiny higher threshold then before. I lose it again. The third time i deposit i repeat the same as above. Every game paid. On where my first 3k deposit just did'nt do jack shit.

Financially-wise i can take the loss; no worries. But it's always this same repeating pattern. None of you would believe that this could actually happen. I think the world of casino's is bigger then what happens in the UK alone. And looking at those live games with obvious brakes and tired flappers for example, as long as there's a distribution of a fair 96% it's legal by law. Simple as that. They dont have to hide the obvious rigging in various games. They can.

The field of playing would change, when i would hit withdrawl. I would be back at the initial slots are cold. I dont understand it really. Whats the point of gambling at this where i hit a wall nummerous time while it's told to be random. Well it's not. The only thing random would be when i'm winning obvious; and they stated pretty much that the outcome of their games was random and "unpredictable".

Correct; it really is unpredictable but the threshold to how / what / how high i can kick it, is'nt. I dare any of you big / high rollers to reproduce the above.
 

neon claws

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Jan 5, 2020
Location
Australia
The outcome is usually 96% of your deposit,
Funny that...

3 months ago i won 5k i believe and i blew it on extra chilli bonus buys. I lost 'm all. No big deal, because i know in a while i will be at that very same level. And yep; my threshold this time was around 8k. Pretty much was in line with what i depositted over the course of those months, weeks. I lost the 8k again, because i just want to kick it to 20k and call it a day. Now i'm having a extreme cold streak from here to tokio, but at some point the slots will go wide open again for me, where i believe i should be able to push it to 12k.
This is another common theme in these threads; "I recently had a big win and now I'm not winning anymore, therefore it's rigged, it's taking it all back!" No, you got lucky and you stupidly expected that luck to continue instead of returning to the usual grind.

I don't know why I reply to these posts anymore, I don't think anyone is ever going to realise they're proportioning blame in the wrong place until it's too late.
 

Slotplayer83

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Jan 29, 2021
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It's very weird if you ask me, that when your not winning, most slots (and i do play a variance of over 15 games) simply dont hit. When you do win suddenly ALL these games happen to throw winning bombs and combinations at you like no tomorrow.

Explain that how not changing any gameplay leads to a cold streak usually withdrawl amount + extra before things start to "work" a bit again. Oh it's all in our head ofcourse. How stupid we are. We surely do trust the slots and randomness they provide us do they.
 
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