Disgusting 888 Bonus Policy & Cashing Out - Help!

bajungo

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Location
UK
Hi,

I recently deposited £100 in to 888's online casino as I wanted to have a play with the live roulette.

Just after I deposited the £100 I get a pop up window with a girl asking me if I'd like a £20 bonus. I asked if it was suitable for roulette. She said yes. I said; well why not then.

I had four spins of the live wheel using my £100 and managed to get up to £164. This is when the £20 bonus hit my bankroll. After this point I hit a high of £230, went back to £200, before deciding to cash out.

888 contacted me after 2 days to tell me I wasn't allowed to cash out ANY winnings until I have played through the bonus 40 times (400 times for roulette as it only counts for 10%). This means I have to play through £8,000 worth of bets to unlock my money.

There are several things wrong here. Firstly, 888's communication on this has been just awful. They have deployed human robots to just shout about the T&Cs in my face. They haven't listened to or observed the facts (including a game history screen shot which shows the bonus has not hit my account until it is £64 in profit). Additionally, what kind of gambling establishment deploys a scammy bonus to a customer who has just deposited £100 of his own free will who is looking for an 'honest gambling experience'?
They 'kindly' offer to remove the bonus and all the winnings from my account so I can cash out my deposit. Disgusting.
The use of the bonus (which I didn't even notice whilst playing) was rendered useless seeing as I had my own £100 cash and £64 profit to play with, my account never went below £95.

Are there any 888 contacts around, or anyone who can help with this matter? I'm feeling a bit miffed just getting copied and pasted responses from the support e-mail, and also had a pointless 40 minute conversation with a girl who saw my problem, but didn't have any power to fix it (and her superiors were apparently busy).

Cheers,
B.
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Location
Narnia
40xbonus is pretty bad as it is. 400xbonus and your in trouble.
I don't how to advise you but one thing I can say is to check and re-check terms and conditions before you accept a bonus.

Sometimes they even hit you with a playthrough requirement on a basic deposit. So it would pay to check terms and conditons even if you don't accept a bonus.

Good lucky :cool:
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
If this is your first ever deposit at an online casino, then take it as a learning experience....every bonus has terms attached and it is the players' responsibility to keep themselves informed of the details. Did you really think they were just 'giving' you $20? If they did that, they would be milked to high heaven and be out of business in a month.

If this is not your first ever deposit - then you should know better.

Unfortunately, claiming not to know the terms isn't a 'defence' against the enforcement of those terms.

It is difficult to say whether the casino made it clear, as we don't know exactly what was said to you. The CSR might well have said "Please check terms and conditions" or "Bonus is subject to normal restrictions" etc etc and you may have missed it, in which case it is your problem.

Perhaps the rep can copy/paste the chat log and it might clarify things a little,.
 

Rick Deckard

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Location
UK
Hi,

I recently deposited £100 in to 888's online casino as I wanted to have a play with the live roulette.

Just after I deposited the £100 I get a pop up window with a girl asking me if I'd like a £20 bonus. I asked if it was suitable for roulette. She said yes. I said; well why not then.

I had four spins of the live wheel using my £100 and managed to get up to £164. This is when the £20 bonus hit my bankroll. After this point I hit a high of £230, went back to £200, before deciding to cash out.

888 contacted me after 2 days to tell me I wasn't allowed to cash out ANY winnings until I have played through the bonus 40 times (400 times for roulette as it only counts for 10%). This means I have to play through £8,000 worth of bets to unlock my money.

There are several things wrong here. Firstly, 888's communication on this has been just awful. They have deployed human robots to just shout about the T&Cs in my face. They haven't listened to or observed the facts (including a game history screen shot which shows the bonus has not hit my account until it is £64 in profit). Additionally, what kind of gambling establishment deploys a scammy bonus to a customer who has just deposited £100 of his own free will who is looking for an 'honest gambling experience'?
They 'kindly' offer to remove the bonus and all the winnings from my account so I can cash out my deposit. Disgusting.
The use of the bonus (which I didn't even notice whilst playing) was rendered useless seeing as I had my own £100 cash and £64 profit to play with, my account never went below £95.

Are there any 888 contacts around, or anyone who can help with this matter? I'm feeling a bit miffed just getting copied and pasted responses from the support e-mail, and also had a pointless 40 minute conversation with a girl who saw my problem, but didn't have any power to fix it (and her superiors were apparently busy).

Cheers,
B.

Just had a look at 888's casino-promotions/new-players-promotions/welcome-bonus.htm page and it says you should be able to wager with 100% playthrough on 888casinoLIVE? Which Live Roulette is a part of the Live Casino isn't it? That's how I would of understand it.

Though it also says lower down in the table that all versions of roulette 20% and all versinons of blackjack and bacarrat 10%.

Phewy this is confusing. :confused: Maybe an 888 rep here could clarify which of the 888casinoLIVE games contribute 100%?

" Wagering Contributions
Game Category Game Contribution

Video Slot & Slot 120%
The more you play, the faster we pay!

888casinoLIVE , Scratch card, Keno, Hi-Lo, Race, Arcade, Dice and all other games that do not appear in the table 100%

All versions of Roulette, Pai Gow Poker, Caribbean Poker, Triple Card Poker & Poker table games 20%

All versions of Blackjack, VideoPoker & Power Video Poker & Baccarat 10%
Craps 5%
"


On the plus side. At least they offered you your deposit money back so you can cash out and not be left out of pocket. :)
:thumbsup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Since you agreed to the bonus, you are not in a good position.

Maybe this is "scammy" tactics though, using a rep to interrupt your play to offer the bonus, when CLEARLY you in the process of playing, and would NOT at this point think to log out & check the terms.

Whilst correct, the rep failed to advise you that it is not simply a case of it being "OK for Roulette", but that it would tie you into a WR. This is something you would (or should) have realised had you decided from the outset to use this bonus, as you would have been on the website, with the rules in front of you, rather than having been inconveniently interrupted during your play.


Any casino that tries to open chat whilst I am in mid-game finds it closed again from my end before they even get to say "Hi, can I offer.........". This applies unless I have been told in advance that a promotion I am playing involves the use of a live chat interrupt to award any prize.
 

bajungo

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Location
UK
From what I remember there was no mention of T&Cs, I wouldn't have claimed a bonus unless the person in the popup box said it was suitable. I believe they were trying to give me free spins on a slot game but I specifically asked for one that was suitable for roulette.

A bonus of £20 that you must play through to the tune of £8,000 is simply inappropriate to any game and any situation, and I originally (naively perhaps) believed it to be a mistake on their part. Can someone from 888 please restore my faith in basic good will and remove this abhorrent bonus from my account whilst leaving my fairly earnt winnings in tact?

Does the 888 rep frequent these parts or does anyone have her contact details? I'm pretty sure if she looks at my account history she will be able to sort something out, if I'm risking my own money before a pointless bonus hits, then I should be rewarded for it.

I attach a screenshot of my play history which for some reason isn't in order, but you can see the bonus hitting on the third from bottom line when a £5 win is recorded, but £25 extra is credited to the bankroll.

I also just went on the cashier again and spoke to another 'pop up person' who offered me the free spins bonus. I asked about a roulette bonus, they said I could have £25 to be played through 40x, but roulette counts 100%. If this was the case with the bonus I was awarded I would at least have a decent chance of playing through the bonus with a £200 bankroll and still claiming some winnings from my initial £100 deposit, although it really doesn't feel like a good gaming experience, just like I'm trying to avoid being robbed!

B.
 

bajungo

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Location
UK
A few posts were added whilst I was writing that. I have sent Rachel a message, hopefully she can sort this out.

Not sure 'on the plus side' should be getting my own deposit back. That is a pretty low expectation to have when dealing with a legitimate company.

I just got cut off by 'Nikki' from live chat help when asking her about the exact wagering requirements on my account. Some classy extracts from the chat after she assured me the current bonus on my account is in fact only 40x playthrough for roulette and not 400x as I had been told on the phone and by e-mail:

you: So how can I play pennies then?
you: how can there be 790.64 remaining and not 790.00?
Nikki: What do you mean by Pennies.
Nikki: It is just a wagering
Nikki: All you need to do is continue playing
you: pennies is the same as cents but for £ instead of $
Nikki: Okay
Nikki: Just play the games

And...

you: if it started at 800
you: how can it decrease by 9.36?
you: it is impossible to gamble 9.36 on roulette
Nikki: OKAY
Nikki: That is the wagering on the account
Nikki: Thank you for choosing us, .
Nikki: Enjoy the Games
Nikki: If you require further assistance, please contact our Member Support Center, available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Nikki: Toll-free number to dial is: 0800-032-9873
Nikki: I hope I have been of assistance to you. Should you require further assistance please feel free to contact us again.
Chat session has been terminated by the site operator.

Well, 888 are really hiring the best, it must be said. :(
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
I think the title in this thread is unnecessary

"Disgusting"


If you want to be taken serious, I would recommend a more fair title.

You might be wrong in your allegations you know.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I think the title in this thread is unnecessary

"Disgusting"


If you want to be taken serious, I would recommend a more fair title.

You might be wrong in your allegations you know.

It doesn't look like it. If the WR is 790.64, this is CLEARLY a mistake on their part, and this leads me to believe there are likely to be further mistakes that as in the case of this WR, they are "bluffing" through in order to fool the customer into thinking they are 100% to blame.

It's the sales tactic that is the problem. At the time it was offered, the bonus was completely unsuitable for this player in the position he was in at the time. The only purpose served by offering this £20 at that time was to trap his then profit by an onerous WR.
The offer would have been more appropriate had it been offered when he bust out, or not offered at all had he eventually withdrawn.
It's preying on the naievety of the average consumer, and is at best considered "sharp practice", and at worst considered ILLEGAL in parts of the EU. Part of this offer was the requirement to make an on the spot decision, rather than getting back to the casino after checking the terms of this offer. The player even asked a question that gave the chat agent the opportunity to expand on any negative implications of this bonus, but instead it was glossed over as "suitable for Roulette". "suitable" is NOT the same as VALID, this bonus was indeed "valid", but it certainly was not "suitable" in the circumstances.

This is EXACTLY what I would expect from the likes of 888.com, so doesn't come as a surprise to me. If anything, they have done FAR worse things to their players.

Being taken over by Ladbrokes hasn't made much of a difference either, if anything, a recent thread about Ladbrokes casino suggests that Ladbrokes are lowering standards to match 888, rather than RAISING the standards of 888 to those of Ladbrokes.

I am rather intrigued by the idea that "live roulette" has a 40x WR, yet "computer RNG roulette" has a 200x WR. It's the same game, same odds, same rules, and SAME vulnerability to "abusive play" on a bonus. What are the live croupiers "up to" that substitutes for the need to protect against "bonus abuse" that is countered in the software variant through the use of a 200x WR through using a 20% weighting?
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
It doesn't look like it. If the WR is 790.64, this is CLEARLY a mistake on their part, and this leads me to believe there are likely to be further mistakes that as in the case of this WR, they are "bluffing" through in order to fool the customer into thinking they are 100% to blame.

It's the sales tactic that is the problem. At the time it was offered, the bonus was completely unsuitable for this player in the position he was in at the time. The only purpose served by offering this £20 at that time was to trap his then profit by an onerous WR.
The offer would have been more appropriate had it been offered when he bust out, or not offered at all had he eventually withdrawn.
It's preying on the naievety of the average consumer, and is at best considered "sharp practice", and at worst considered ILLEGAL in parts of the EU. Part of this offer was the requirement to make an on the spot decision, rather than getting back to the casino after checking the terms of this offer. The player even asked a question that gave the chat agent the opportunity to expand on any negative implications of this bonus, but instead it was glossed over as "suitable for Roulette". "suitable" is NOT the same as VALID, this bonus was indeed "valid", but it certainly was not "suitable" in the circumstances.

This is EXACTLY what I would expect from the likes of 888.com, so doesn't come as a surprise to me. If anything, they have done FAR worse things to their players.

Being taken over by Ladbrokes hasn't made much of a difference either, if anything, a recent thread about Ladbrokes casino suggests that Ladbrokes are lowering standards to match 888, rather than RAISING the standards of 888 to those of Ladbrokes.

I am rather intrigued by the idea that "live roulette" has a 40x WR, yet "computer RNG roulette" has a 200x WR. It's the same game, same odds, same rules, and SAME vulnerability to "abusive play" on a bonus. What are the live croupiers "up to" that substitutes for the need to protect against "bonus abuse" that is countered in the software variant through the use of a 200x WR through using a 20% weighting?


As always, a good and informative reply from you :thumbsup:

I would not use 888.com. But I do think that people should write a fair thread, and not use words like "Disgusting" in the title. I have no opinion about whether the player has a case or not here.
 

Rick Deckard

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Location
UK
I am rather intrigued by the idea that "live roulette" has a 40x WR, yet "computer RNG roulette" has a 200x WR. It's the same game, same odds, same rules, and SAME vulnerability to "abusive play" on a bonus. What are the live croupiers "up to" that substitutes for the need to protect against "bonus abuse" that is countered in the software variant through the use of a 200x WR through using a 20% weighting?

Good question. Here is one answer that is competely theoretical and completely unrelated to 888's live roulette. Live roulette is studio based. A casino could if they wanted to, use technological equipment to predict where the ball will land. Lasers and imaging camera frames can be fed in to a computer to predict instantly which sector of the wheel the ball might land in. Players that have used this equipment in a UK land based casino in London gained a 40% edge much nicer than the -2.7% edge of the normal game. They were not prosecuted and were allowed to keep thier £1.6 million in winnings. So if they can do it so too can the casino operators in the studio. If say a player put £300 on a single number ( £11,500 if wins) and the casinos computer prediction flagged a possible win in that sector, the casino could legally cut your live feed connection half way through the spin in where your bet would be voided. This is completely hypothetical and I don't think live casino studios would take these counter measures but who knows they could in the future. :(
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Good question. Here is one answer that is competely theoretical and completely unrelated to 888's live roulette. Live roulette is studio based. A casino could if they wanted to, use technological equipment to predict where the ball will land. Lasers and imaging camera frames can be fed in to a computer to predict instantly which sector of the wheel the ball might land in. Players that have used this equipment in a UK land based casino in London gained a 40% edge much nicer than the -2.7% edge of the normal game. They were not prosecuted and were allowed to keep thier £1.6 million in winnings. So if they can do it so too can the casino operators in the studio. If say a player put £300 on a single number ( £11,500 if wins) and the casinos computer prediction flagged a possible win in that sector, the casino could legally cut your live feed connection half way through the spin in where your bet would be voided. This is completely hypothetical and I don't think live casino studios would take these counter measures but who knows they could in the future. :(

It is more likely that PLAYERS would use this type of technology, so how come the WR is LESS on the live game exposed to such a vulnerability.

From the casino's side it is not a single bet, but HUNDREDS of bets, on each spin. There would ALWAYS be players about to win, so they would almost ALWAYS be having to engineer faults in the feed in order to void games. This would give them a reputation for terrible standards of reliabilty, and pretty soon NO players would be playing, and the studio would go bust.

The defence now used by land casinos is to close the betting BEFORE the croupier spins the wheel, thus no advantage is gained from being able to predict which sector the ball will end up in. Online casinos probably do the same to prevent any such possibilities.
 

2btakn

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Location
Killeen, TX
If this is your first ever deposit at an online casino, then take it as a learning experience....every bonus has terms attached and it is the players' responsibility to keep themselves informed of the details. Did you really think they were just 'giving' you $20? If they did that, they would be milked to high heaven and be out of business in a month.

If this is not your first ever deposit - then you should know better.

Unfortunately, claiming not to know the terms isn't a 'defence' against the enforcement of those terms.

It is difficult to say whether the casino made it clear, as we don't know exactly what was said to you. The CSR might well have said "Please check terms and conditions" or "Bonus is subject to normal restrictions" etc etc and you may have missed it, in which case it is your problem.

Perhaps the rep can copy/paste the chat log and it might clarify things a little,.

harsh
 

HadEnouth

Dormant account
Joined
May 23, 2010
Location
England
"Disgusting" in the title is fair as far as i am concerned

888 used a cheap tactic to trap this player and I am not the least surprised

888 belongs in the pit for more reasons than this.
 

Rachel888

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Location
Herzliyah, Tel Aviv, Israel, Israel
Talking to Bajungo

Hey Everyone!

So I am talking to Bajungo right now, I am working with him and our operations department to help resolve the issue. He messaged me and even added me to msn, we are chatting right now and hopefully together this will all be sorted out.

We value all of our players and want nothing more than for them to be happy, happy players mean loyal players and as I've said before 888 has made changes in the past few years and we are really trying to work with our players to resolve issues.

Sorry for the late response as things are a bit hectic with LAC this weekend and making sure all meetings are in place. Been working about 12 hours a day for the past week just trying to get everything done.

I do encourage everyone with any issue at all with 888 to feel free to contact me by any means available on my CP. I will always have time to talk to our players, or anyone with questions.

Have a great evening, and stay beautiful :)

Rachel
 

bajungo

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Location
UK
Rach has been great! An asset to any company I'm sure. If only the default 888 reps could be so helpful. :thumbsup:

I did feel completely disgusted with the bonus that was bestowed upon me and the treatment that I assume is afforded to all customers with similar problems. I just didn't expect this after not playing online for a few years.
 

Brooklyn

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Location
On the Hot Mess Express
I have talked to Rachel on a few occasions. She is very friendly, and she works hard over there to take care of her players. We also share a Dexter obsession which made us instant buddies.

I am sure she will get this taken care of asap to the players satisfaction!
:cool:
 
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