Dead or Alive statistics

[gagamel]

Fun mode can be faster becasue the algorithm is calculated on your pc processor, so you can hack it. When you play in real mode it is calculated from the casino server. There is a very big difference in results. I've read many threads on this topic. There were similar comparisons for roulette software in fun/real play mode. I'm sure of that.

Sorry, that is BS.

 

[gagamel]

I could prove it only with roulette but it's a very long and boring demonstration. It means observing roulette results in a special way. And if i do i will reveal the secret behind my strategy and i prefer to keep my discoverings private.

BS as well. To observe roulette in a special way has no result for players in the last 200 years. I know that there were some mistakes in the
landbased cauldrons. And some guys found a way to make profits. But this is a lot of years ago. Your way is wrong and you will lose because there is no way to cheat.

 

[gagamel]

I could prove it only with roulette but it's a very long and boring demonstration. It means observing roulette results in a special way. And if i do i will reveal the secret behind my strategy and i prefer to keep my discoverings private.

You are condemned as untrustworthy.

 

[Balthazar]

Let's not forget this post:

At NetEnt we like to make our games individual and unique. In keeping with this, some games will have very different mathematics in the freespins/bonus rounds

So the base game could be the exact same in free play and real play, but the very different mathematics could kick in only in real play, thus allowing a line of wilds. For all we know it could act similar to a progressive jackpot.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So the base game could be the exact same in free play and real play, but the very different mathematics could kick in only in real play, thus allowing a line of wilds. For all we know it could act similar to a progressive jackpot.

That's an interesting thought..... DoA is capable of insane hits, a couple of high-rollers hitting one of those 4000-5000x stake monsters at one casino in an evening could cause some serious carnage.....

So yeah, how about everyone playing for real feeds into a hidden 'progressive' pot, and when there's enough cash in there, randomly release the 'five wilds winline' to a player, if it's a high-roller, then the pot will take a lot longer to fill up again, to protect casinos from business-disrupting payouts.

After all, DoA is unique in NetEnt's slot library, they do have a couple of other high variance efforts in there (JATB/Reel Steal) but nothing that seems to hit as big and as regularly as DoA, and they certainly haven't produced anything like it for years.

Tinfoil hat stuff for sure..... But then again when you've chucked as many spins at this slot as me and dunover have in free play mode, you do start to ask if there's a difference between real and free, especially if you compare that to rolastan and Blathon's history in real. (Just go back to July 2013 and look through the 1000x screenshots thread.)

Still doesn't explain why they couldn't just model that behaviour into free play though, make it a 1 in 200 chance on the bonus round or something, unless it's an oversight, and the code to 'release' the five wilds simply doesn't exist on the freeplay calls to the server.

Fucking hell, time for my own tinfoil hat, unless dunover wants to lend me his

 

[Blathaon]

ok guys dont forget that before i posted DoA real play stats, i did 1000 features in free play. So lines of wilds do appear in free play too.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/dead-or-alive.53838/

while my free play stats are far worse then my real play, that might just be down to the variance. I do find Chopley's and Dunover's stats a bit extreme though.

 

[Balthazar]

So yeah, how about everyone playing for real feeds into a hidden 'progressive' pot, and when there's enough cash in there, randomly release the 'five wilds winline' to a player

When I'm talking about the possibility of "compensated" NetEnt slots, that's exactly what I'm talking about and I don't think that it's limited to DoA. If that formula is true for most of their slots, keeping the "big wins" as low as possible with the newer releases makes a lot of sense.

On the other hand, to be honest I've experienced strange slot behaviour* in the base game on JatB, Reel Steal and Starburst.

*By strange behaviour, I mean that it was easily noticeable that the slot wasn't acting "normally".

 

[dunover]

When I'm talking about the possibility of "compensated" NetEnt slots, that's exactly what I'm talking about and I don't think that it's limited to DoA. If that formula is true for most of their slots, keeping the "big wins" as low as possible with the newer releases makes a lot of sense.

On the other hand, to be honest I've experienced strange slot behaviour* in the base game on JatB, Reel Steal and Starburst.

*By strange behaviour, I mean that it was easily noticeable that the slot wasn't acting "normally".

So, what's 'normal' on a random slot?

 

[Balthazar]

So, what's 'normal' on a random slot?

If you play a slot long enough, you'll recognize the randomness. That doesn't mean that the spins are predictible and you can't get any surprise, but it's the same slot with the same reels. For example, if you play IR for a fairly long session, you should expect to get a scatter on the first reel more often than one on the 4th reel.

When you play JatB, you should expect to get a walking wild every now and then, and sometimes two and rarely 3 or more. If you play JatB for a long session and never get any walking wild but you get scatters all over the place and you keep getting the free spins, it doesn't feel "normal". If it does this for several hundred spins until you finally get a big win in the free spins, and then immediately goes back to "normal" and starts dropping walking wilds in the base game again....well that feels really fishy and not very random. But since it's "possible", you move on.

Until you repeat the exact same experience a month or two later in Reel Steal, that's when your BS meter starts ringing.

 

[biemme]

If you play a slot long enough, you'll recognize the randomness. That doesn't mean that the spins are predictible and you can't get any surprise, but it's the same slot with the same reels. For example, if you play IR for a fairly long session, you should expect to get a scatter on the first reel more often than one on the 4th reel.

It's the same feeling that i have when i play RTG Caesar's Empire slot, today i've been lucky and I've completed the wagering (25x), I've never seen so many features in a row and the most of them paid more than usual. But i know quite well this slot, i understand when it's going dead because dead spins in a row are not usual for a long time, there are always little wins and sometimes big wins. Today was full of coins and i've logged in in the right moment. Rolastan seems to have the luckyness to find this right moment. From 14$ i've gone to more than 200$ even if max cashout is only 50$ Good way to begin 2014

 

[gagamel]

If you play a slot long enough, you'll recognize the randomness. That doesn't mean that the spins are predictible and you can't get any surprise, but it's the same slot with the same reels. For example, if you play IR for a fairly long session, you should expect to get a scatter on the first reel more often than one on the 4th reel.

When you play JatB, you should expect to get a walking wild every now and then, and sometimes two and rarely 3 or more. If you play JatB for a long session and never get any walking wild but you get scatters all over the place and you keep getting the free spins, it doesn't feel "normal". If it does this for several hundred spins until you finally get a big win in the free spins, and then immediately goes back to "normal" and starts dropping walking wilds in the base game again....well that feels really fishy and not very random. But since it's "possible", you move on.

Until you repeat the exact same experience a month or two later in Reel Steal, that's when your BS meter starts ringing.

I really don`t know what you want to tell us.
ALL Slots are designed to make you lose your money.
I played a lot of different slots last year and the result was the same with every slot. I had some good wins and a lot of dry spells.
The difference was that I had bigger wins in high variance slots and longer dry spells, but at the end I lost 3 to 5% of my money in the long term. Rolastan says that he has a positive outcome with DoA.
In my opinion he is really lucky or he has a very good picture program.
I hope he is just a lucky man.

And for you Balt: 300 or 500 spins in a row is nothing. I played today 1000 spins Playboy and had no free spins in the first 650 spins.
And then 5 times in 350 spins but l lost 40. That`s because of my bad luck and the high variance.
You have to lose more than 3% on slots because if you win one time big (500x for example) you need 1000s of spins to reach your 97%.
Because of that your RTP can be 60& for 700 spins, but with one big hit your RTP is about 110%.
And now it depends on you to say bye or not.
But in a long term you will hit the TRTP

 

[Balthazar]

I really don`t know what you want to tell us.
ALL Slots are designed to make you lose your money.
I played a lot of different slots last year and the result was the same with every slot. I had some good wins and a lot of dry spells.
The difference was that I had bigger wins in high variance slots and longer dry spells, but at the end I lost 3 to 5% of my money in the long term. Rolastan says that he has a positive outcome with DoA.
In my opinion he is really lucky or he has a very good picture program.
I hope he is just a lucky man.

And for you Balt: 300 or 500 spins in a row is nothing. I played today 1000 spins Playboy and had no free spins in the first 650 spins.
And then 5 times in 350 spins but l lost 40. That`s because of my bad luck and the high variance.
You have to lose more than 3% on slots because if you win one time big (500x for example) you need 1000s of spins to reach your 97%.
Because of that your RTP can be 60& for 700 spins, but with one big hit your RTP is about 110%.
And now it depends on you to say bye or not.
But in a long term you will hit the TRTP

I didn't want to go in details because I knew it would attract that kind of reply. FTR I know how randomness and RNG's work. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I've defended slots randomness for well over a year here. NetEnt's slots act funny. I don't say this because I lost, I don't say this because I don't like them, I say it because I observed it and I believe that I can differentiate acts of randomness (and that's include being "streaky") vs. acting fishy.

 

[Finn]

Let's not forget this post:



So the base game could be the exact same in free play and real play, but the very different mathematics could kick in only in real play, thus allowing a line of wilds. For all we know it could act similar to a progressive jackpot.

In Mega Fortune this "bonus game algorithm may be different for play money and real money mode" means that the play money bonus game is much worse than real money bonus game. With play money, you can only hit the 1x-3xbet slices on the outer wheel, you will never get to the middle wheel or the inner wheel. I think they should have disabled just the jackpot slices from the wheel in play money mode, not the whole middle and inner wheel.

 

[zreb]

It's always good to maintain a healthy level of skepticism about whether you're getting a fair game, or no one would ever discover whether they were getting cheated. However, you don't want to be the guy standing on a soapbox yelling how everything is rigged against him either.

Based on Blathaon's data and a few assumptions, it looks like the lack of 1000x+ hits and 5-line wilds in the free-play testing should happen around 1% of the time, but that could be off significantly if my assumptions are. The data so far seems a bit eyebrow-raising, but not really conclusive of anything.

I'd still wager that more likely than not, NetEnt slots are not compensated and function like a random slot should.

And I think the intention of the quote about "very different mathematics" is just saying that they want to make slots with more creative types of bonus rounds than the standard "10 free spins, 3x multiplier" type.

 

[gagamel]

e I knew itI didn't want to go in details becaus would attract that kind of reply. FTR I know how randomness and RNG's work. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I've defended slots randomness for well over a year here. NetEnt's slots act funny. I don't say this because I lost, I don't say this because I don't like them, I say it because I observed it and I believe that I can differentiate acts of randomness (and that's include being "streaky") vs. acting fishy.

Dear Balthazar
you say something is fishy with Netent slots but you don`t want to go into details because it would attract a kind of reply like my reply.
Well, yes, of course, I understand.
Please tell us what is fishy with Netent slots.
Please tell us your doubts.
Please tell us all about your concerns.
Please tell us what you observed.
Please tell us why Netent slots act funny.

Thank you

 

[dunover]

If you play a slot long enough, you'll recognize the randomness. That doesn't mean that the spins are predictible and you can't get any surprise, but it's the same slot with the same reels. For example, if you play IR for a fairly long session, you should expect to get a scatter on the first reel more often than one on the 4th reel.

When you play JatB, you should expect to get a walking wild every now and then, and sometimes two and rarely 3 or more. If you play JatB for a long session and never get any walking wild but you get scatters all over the place and you keep getting the free spins, it doesn't feel "normal". If it does this for several hundred spins until you finally get a big win in the free spins, and then immediately goes back to "normal" and starts dropping walking wilds in the base game again....well that feels really fishy and not very random. But since it's "possible", you move on.

Until you repeat the exact same experience a month or two later in Reel Steal, that's when your BS meter starts ringing.

What you're hinting at there is the slot 'saving' for the subsequent big win it pays you. I said that once and got ridiculed - I suggested all the 4-reel wild desires were won by people who had lost an amount already more than the big win, or nearly as much. Then I blew that theory out of the water by getting my 4-reel shitstorm when I was already 200-ish up on that TSII game at LaVida. Netent however definitely exhibit that behaviour more than MG games do. I've noticed this in freeplay. Every time I open st*rb*rst it seems to take the same approximate time before hitting 2 stars the first time. Every time once it has produced a 50x plus win, it will behave the same afterwards. Wild rockets is another. I have rather gone off Netent as a result.

 

[gagamel]

What you're hinting at there is the slot 'saving' for the subsequent big win it pays you. I said that once and got ridiculed - I suggested all the 4-reel wild desires were won by people who had lost an amount already more than the big win, or nearly as much. Then I blew that theory out of the water by getting my 4-reel shitstorm when I was already 200-ish up on that TSII game at LaVida. Netent however definitely exhibit that behaviour more than MG games do. I've noticed this in freeplay. Every time I open st*rb*rst it seems to take the same approximate time before hitting 2 stars the first time. Every time once it has produced a 50x plus win, it will behave the same afterwards. Wild rockets is another. I have rather gone off Netent as a result.

Is your gameplay the same as in real play? I would say it isn`t. You will walk away from a game after 200 spins without a hit. Sometimes I had the same experience in my first spins with Netent and sometimes it was completly different.
It`s random and sometimes you win in your first spins and sometines your spins look the same as your spins before.
I never won anything with IM and then I won 3 free spin rounds with 3 spins and made a good profit. That`s random.

 

[dizze]

There is some sense in what your are saying, it's entirely possible BUT it's thus far only your theory - can you prove any of this?

there was some scam going on about a roulette software and randseed nonsense

FROM ANONYMOUS
Re: MMM-FART-ScaMMM

I'm a lurker and don't post much. I can't post too much. I probably won't post again, but I will lurk to follow this one through. I followed Cipher around and knew he would be found out.

You may not be aware but just about every online casino does not use their own server's RNG in Fun Mode, Play Mode or whatever they want to call it. They use [your] computer's own RNG. You can test it out at Online Casino by just disconnecting your internet connection and it will still allow you to play. It isn't connected to their server. I know this. I am sure many others know this. You can download Online Casino and test it for yourself, or if you can't because of your location then ask a friend to do it.

The data these people are collecting are not recording the RNG results of Online Casino's server; they are recording the results of a rigged RNG from MMM's program. Think how much turnover will have taken place when the duped place their 7th bet. 48.65% will win, 48.65% will lose. Starting bet of $10 makes accumulated losses at 7th loss of $1270 x $0.4865 x 40%* = $247 profits per player for MMM. How? Decode my message.* And eventually all the first time winners will also lose.

* 1 = A, 6 = F

This one will be bigger than Cipher. Their forum is full of roulette betting system junkies; the perfect clientele for the perfect scaMMM.

Do not PM me back. I won't respond.

posted in 2007,

try disconnecting your internet while playing in free mode

but regarding hacking the doa game, im not sure if its encrypted or not.

 

[dunover]

Hurray!!! Finally got the 5 wilds, 3-scatter trigger, got the 'chevron' with 2 spins left of the 12, top left down to bottom middle up to top right. 1312 x stake!!!!!! This was on the 106-107000 spins session! The 542nd. bonus trigger. I am however, at 90p a spin, down £8776.10p My RTP is at nearly 93%.
The biggest win still remains my 5-scatters + 343x stake paying 2500+343.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So it is achievable then, but only two spins with a wild line maxed out, hence the relatively small 1312x pay.

Overall our stats for this slot are scary though.

 

[biemme]

Ipotizing a compensated pot system for a single slot, i suggest a way to reach the Rolastan's results:
Make a new thread where each Doa player (with the same stake, for ex. 0,45) writes the casino name where he gets the 5 wilds feature with high paid (around 1000€ or more).
The list will be useful to avoid these casinos in the short term (2 weeks for example).
Similar threads can be opened with other stakes too.
What do you think?

 

[naththo]

Your statistic pretty much sums up, rather accurate to me I say.

Its so rare to see over 100x win in one go in one spin or altogether in free spin. So gotta keep in mind on that. Dead or Alive is so high volatile as Reel Steel or Break Da Bank Again. But not as extreme high volatile as the original Lord of the Ring or The Dark Knight with stack wild. Remember years ago we had first stack Lions or stack wild in free game was Aristocrat Lions 50? That was the first one invented. I haven't hit 50 stack of wild or Lions yet so hard to get.

 

[kktmd]

Free play. Bet: 9 x 1.

Disclaimer: I havn't double checked the numbers.

 

[Balthazar]

Thanks kktmd.

Over 1.5M spins is a big enough sample to get very close to the actual numbers IMO.

So it's pretty safe to say that on DOA:

The chances of triggering the bonus: ~ 1/150 spins
The chances of triggering the bonus and getting the additional 5 spins: ~1/7000 spins
The chances of getting a 1000x+ win: ~1/34500 spins

So on average, a player should get one or more full line of wilds OR 5 scatters every 35000 spins or so.

 

[Blathaon]

Free play. Bet: 9 x 1.

Disclaimer: I havn't double checked the numbers.

View attachment 44389

Very nice

so you found a way around the encryption ?

Is it it possible for you to show the interval between the 1000x+ hits?. Or possibly a graph of all the features, assuming you have logged them in sequence?.