1. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
  2. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies. You can find out more by following.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

Crystal Palace Casinos' IPO

Discussion in 'Casino Industry Discussion' started by Casinomeister, Oct 2, 2005.

    Oct 2, 2005
  1. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    THE Crystal Gaming Group, which runs online casinos in South Africa and the US, is lining up to float on AIM.

    The Isle of Man-based group is believed to have appointed Seymour Pierce to advise on the listing, which is expected to put a value of 140m on the firm.

    Crystal claims to be the third-largest online casino on the basis of the number of visits to its sites, which include Crystalpalacecasino.com.

    Warren Cloud, the 32-year-old South African founder of the business, and his family will retain a 45% stake in the company.

    More here:
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  2. Oct 3, 2005
  3. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
  4. Oct 3, 2005
  5. Bruce Hamilton

    Bruce Hamilton Dormant account

    Occupation:
    What's a job?
    Location:
    USA
  6. Oct 3, 2005
  7. amandajm

    amandajm Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Watch
    Location:
    London
    Seems to me the way to get on in online gambling is to take liberties.

    Whether that be starting up with rigged software (handa/iglobalmedia/partypoker/, popup or spyware hellraisers (888) or just plain ridiculous/Warren cloud/Don Fortune et al.

    Mildly worrisome yet unsurprising.
     
  8. Oct 3, 2005
  9. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I won't repeat what my initial thoughts were, but in actual fact this may turn out to be a good thing. Investor and market pressures leave little room for error. It could be just what the group, and the industry, needs to get on track.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Oct 4, 2005
  11. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I think there was a misprint - 140m should have been $140m - but this should be clarified sometime soon.

    Exactly. When one puts himself in the public eye to be scrutinized, that's usually what happens. I think every casino group should be placed in this sort of spotlight.
     
  12. Oct 4, 2005
  13. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming!

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    :eek:

    Laughable. However maybe with the pressure of being listed, they might clean up their act.
     
  14. Oct 4, 2005
  15. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    lol. What next? Windows casino to float?

    Btw, something slightly odd: the following page http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3400&page=1&pp=10 where you said the following:

    Pretty nice stuff for the owner of a soon to be publicly quoted company.

    The man is quite plainly not fit to run a quoted company, and this kind of information should not covered up.

    So what's up with that?
     
  16. Oct 4, 2005
  17. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
  18. Oct 4, 2005
  19. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    Curiouser and curiouser.

    What happened to this page (WARREN CLOUD CASINOS - The list and The Big Trick)?

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8132

    Or this one from http://www.casinomeister.com/newsletter/2005/5may2005.html?

    Um nope. Not there. No sign.
     
  20. Oct 4, 2005
  21. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    Let's hope that list of sites is in their prospectus, because they sure don't like to tell their players.

    Here's the way they work (You must register/login in order to see the link.)

    Step 1: player claims bonus at casino A
    Step 2: player cashes out (big mistake)
    Step 3: player is banned from casino A (but isn't actually told this, just has their account locked)
    Step 4: player is emailed offers like 120% bonus up to $9,600 from apparently unrelated casino B
    Step 5: player deposits and wins
    Step 6: player has winnings confiscated because he was banned from casino A.

    Alternative Step 5: player deposits and loses

    Either way it's win-win for Crystal palace

    That site list in full

    Crystal Palace
    High Rollers Lounge
    Vegas Riches
    Americas Online
    American Grand Casino
    Golden Nile Casino
    Lucky Coin Casino
    Lucky Pyramid Casino
    Royal Circus Casino
    Vegas Frontier Casino

    Interestingly from looking at Alexa, it seems that Vegas Frontier gets *a lot* of traffic.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    In fact seems to be more traffic than River Belle or Gaming Club.

    Any idea where they get their visitors?
     
  22. Oct 5, 2005
  23. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming!

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    If Warren Cloud does successfully float his casino group, this will be good for the existing and future player base there. However I for one wouldn't want to buy any shares as he is not known for good customer service and they are likely to freefall if the Crytal Palace Group continue operating in the way they have done over the past few years.

    I still find the valuation of $140 million laughable and vastly overpriced as well.
     
  24. Oct 5, 2005
  25. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    There is nothing being covered up. Warren and I have had our moments, and most of these moments were 2+ years old. The Crystal Palace group of casinos went from rogue to non-recommendable to probation to non-recommendable to off probation in the course of a few years. The non-recommended page was removed as I went out the door to visit the states for three weeks, and this is after Warren corrected the terms and conditions that he was getting hammered on. He corrected this - I removed the page. Fair is fair.

    Now the "tricks" thread that you referred to was removed due to a couple members getting way out of line. Out of all the casinos - rogued and recommendable alike - complaints against the Crystal Palace group seems to be always directed against specific people. If you have a problem with a person, fine - contact him/her directly and deal with it. Don't bring it to my forum.

    Incidentally, the issue that had Caruso so riled up about in the "tricks" thread I resolved by convincing Montana to reverse their decision. Now why wasn't this ever brought up?? :what:

    No one said a thing...

    General comment to everyone:
    I'm not here to support or condone vendettas that some players have against certain operators. That is not my function - I don't jump on bandwagons. I also expect forum members to refrain from attacking individuals, and to respect one another as well. This forum is for the entire casino industry, player, operator, software provider, etc.; it is not a playground for bonus whores to beat up casinos when they don't get paid..
     
  26. Oct 6, 2005
  27. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    That explains why that thread is not viewable, but not this one: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3400&page=1&pp=10 where he told you to 'fuck off'

    I really can't understand why you would go out of your way to hide that, and evidently quite recently as well, as the page is still in google. It happened, it's a matter of historical record, and I really think that potential investors in Crystal Palace, when searching for 'Warren Cloud' should be able to see the way that he has behaved.

    Sure if the casino has cleaned its act up, and is now no longer 'not recommended', it's fairly reasonable to remove the rogue page, but what happened is what happened, and it's really strange to go back into history and start hiding stuff.

    Well I have personally never played at any of his casinos. If I had seen something saying 'Crystal Palace has cleaned its act up', then I might have done. But as it is all I see is the mountain of history, and nothing to contradict it.

    I don't think it is quite realistic that the isse you would resolved would be brought up spontaneously - 'man robs bank' is newsworthy, 'man doesn't rob bank' is not.

    When Crystal Palace exited the evil list, it would be normal for them to get a listing under 'past issues'. Virtual Casino, Black Widow, etc., are all there, with a brief precis of what they did.

    Crystal Palace didn't get this.

    Therefore as far as people are aware, they are still rogue, since there is nothing to say otherwise. In July you said with regard to their evil listing 'The 404 you're getting is from moving files around when I reloaded the site.'.

    So the way you were saying it, the page was simply missing, not that they were no longer evil.

    And finally regarding whether they are still evil or not, Vegas Frontier says:

    'We will seize your winnings on a case-by-case basis'

    That doesn't look very much like they have cleaned things up to me, and that is the problem.

    That's better, but stil not really satisfactory. They have listed some of their casinos, but where is Crystal Palace itself?

    And also 'but not restricted to' is a bullshit term.

    How often does he open a new casino? It can't be that often.

    List all the casinos there, it can't be hard.

    The door is still open to say either 'you cashed out to quickly, you abused, we take your winnings', or 'you claimed the bonus at Crystal Palace as well, you are therefore an abuser under our terms, we take your winnings'.

    These terms don't to me smell like a new shiny, happy, helpful casino. I could be proven wrong, but all the evidence of past behaviour (such as the 'fuck you' page, above), doesn't really convince me otherwise. Given these things, it doesn't suggest to me that it really is a safe place to play.

    But I would welcome the feedback of others, and perhaps a few player reports would be beneficial.
     
  28. Oct 6, 2005
  29. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    I'm currently out the harness and have little time to respond to particular commets. I'll have plenty to say when I get back in the harness.

    Four quick comments:

    1) Vendetta????? What is "vendetta" about posting 200% pure factual information? Nothing I have ever said about Cloud's deposit-eliciting techniques is incorrect, including what I posted at Casinomeister. I challenge ANYONE to find ONE comment I have made which is "inaccurate".

    2) The suggestion that this is a "good move" is totally off the wall and the theory that it should apply to all rogues to "clean them up" is absolutely bananas. Following this to its logical conclusion, we should float all rogue casinos to "spotlight" them???

    Gimme a break, purleeeeease.

    3) It's interesting that the Cloud article that Thelawnet found had number one Google rank for "Warren Cloud" searches since its inception until about two weeks ago. Then, it vanished from Google. Now, we discover Cloud is floating his shit and could well benefit from covering up all bad comment. Coinidence? Or is there a way to get information like that pulled out of the Google archives?

    4) Thelawnet: good work, although I've only had time to skim-read everything.
     
  30. Oct 6, 2005
  31. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth

    I'm just back from three weeks away in Alaska, North West Canada, Washington and Oregon, but to clarify on the press material on the Crystal Gaming IPO, here's some detail.

    There was subsequently a currency correction which applied only to the latest pre-tax annual profits, which are audited at US$20.4 million:

    CLOUD ONLINE OPERATIONS TO FLOAT ON LONDON STOCK EXCHANGE

    Company valued by analysts at GBP 140 million

    Well known online casino owner Warren Cloud and his RTG-powered Crystal Gaming group hit the headlines this week with a reported intention to list on the London AIM exchange with a value of GBP 140 million.

    Cloud's group is the latest major online gambling group to seek a public listing in London, following the example of companies like Party Gaming and 888.com.

    Crystal Gaming is, according to the report based on the Isle of Man and is believed to have appointed the respected investment company Seymour Pierce to advise on the listing, expected to put a value of GBP 140 million on the firm.

    Crystal claims to be the third-largest online casino on the basis of the number of visits to its sites, which include Crystalpalacecasino.com. Warren Cloud, the 32-year-old South African founder of the business, and his family will retain a 45 percent stake in the company.

    Seymour Pierce is confident that the groups track record - in the 12 months to June 2005 the group made a pre-tax profit of US $20.4 million - and the fact that the management are not selling shares will attract investors.

    The expected GBP 47 million raised from the float will be used by Crystal to develop an online poker business.
     
  32. Oct 6, 2005
  33. eek

    eek Dormant account

    :lolup:
    45 million for poker and 2 million for Casinomeister so Warren can shut the place down and get rid of us. :D :D
     
  34. Oct 6, 2005
  35. mary

    mary Dormant account

    Publically traded companies do shady stuff all the time, so I'm not holding my breath on a cleanup here.

    Look at Angelciti's press releases and self-dealing, for example. Or Enron, or Tycho, or Doyle Brunson's pump of WPTE.

    Who needs $45 million to start up a poker site? What a scam.
     
  36. Oct 6, 2005
  37. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    The "fuck you" thread is still here, it's in a private area and it'll stay there. Why? Because there were a string of postings that focused on name calling. I chose to move it. And it's an old thread relatively speaking. Warren and I got over this (there were other colorful emails as well). But we looked finally at this as between me and him, and like I said we got over it.

    To Caruso: Vendetta? That was a general comment to everyone. But if the shoe fits wear it. You know me. I will try my damndest to try and help someone when they are getting screwed over, like I did with funkbomber. You were so riled up over Funkbomber's complaint that you lost yourself in a series of vitriolic and vicious postings which I should have banned you over. If you had maintained self discipline, that thread would still be there for google to google the hell out of. The same goes for the f-you thread, but others were spewing their hate in that one.

    Getting back to earth, are we making this IPO out like he is getting knighted by the queen? C'mon let's be real. Like Mary said, public traded companies can be just as sleazy as non-public ones. What the hell?
     
  38. Oct 6, 2005
  39. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    Well that's good to know.

    Evidently I wasn't the first one to notice this:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    and

    http://onlinecasinoreviewer.com/onl..._412/warren_cloud_gags_the_casinomeister.html

    says there was a complaint about namecalling. I presume this was from Warren himself?

    It doesn't seem to bad to me.

    Judge for yourself:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Indeed not. But there doesn't seem to be a good reason to wipe out evidence of their sleaziness. People should know what kind of man he is.

    The rogue page contained such delights as:

    If nothing else, it's hilarious stuff, and it makes good reading for that alone.....
     

Share This Page