Crystal Palace Casinos' IPO

[jetset]

As a general observation I am in agreement with most of what scrollock and chatmaster say above. Crystal Gaming is clearly not going to go away or fail, and therefore a public listing puts them under the whip and the public eye far more intensively and practically than the present arrangement does and should therefore constitute some improvement.

The article on gagging the 'Meister should perhaps be viewed as an editorial opinion in my view - I would think that the source is probably not very influential in an industry sense, and it was not accompanied by any comment from Bryan to substantiate its claims.

Also, Bryan is the owner of this site and is the guy on the spot when the nasty stuff occasionally hits the fan. As far as I am concerned that gives him the right to influence the manner in which things are done and opinions expressed here, and he exercises that in my experience in a pretty laidback style. He's the guy taking the flak if trouble starts - you don't often see anonymous posters coming forward to identify themselves in support when things go wrong.

Having frequently visited the IOM and with e-commerce business associates and friends in the financial and investment sector on the Isle of Man I would have to take issue with scrollock on his comments about the island, however.

Their financial services supervisory is strict and professional from what I can see and hear, and I believe the intentions are good when it comes to online gambling, although they got off on the wrong foot with overly draconian and bureaucratic procedures - a situation they have since recognised and addressed but which cost them dearly.

Although the Tynwald (which I am told is one of the oldest parliaments in Europe btw) gives the island its laws and has self-governing status, it has a Lieutenant Governor appointed by the UK and is heavily and amicably influenced by that country's government, with a number of joint treaties.

The reasons why so many companies find it attractive as a European operating base in diverse industries are in my opinion because it has a quality international banking, business and technical infrastructure; a well educated and English speaking pool for local staff recruitment; good geographical proximity to major European markets; accessible authorities and perhaps most of all a very business and personal friendly tax regime.

I had not heard that Crystal Gaming had been registered on the island but it does look as if in pursuing a credible listing, the company is seeking to move away from its Costa Rican past and is presumably preparing to submit itself to what is likely to be stringent UK licensing conditions in the not too distant future. That's another safeguard for the player imo, because the Brits will be doing this well and in a professional manner.

 

[Webzcas]

Excellent posts. I would also like to comment on one more thing. One of the links Lawnet has referred to is actually to my own site, whereby I covered in my forum the article on Gamblog. As I stated in the thread I checked with Bryan whether Gamblog had indeed got their facts correct - which they hadn't.

Now I have to agree with Chatmaster and Jetset that Bryan's site is one of the most authoriative player watchdog sites on the net when it comes to our industry and the way it operates. It really would not be in his interest to cover up anything. Bryan calls it as he sees it and he has helped many many people here.

Also I am inclined to agree that if Palace does float, this has to be good for their existing and future client base. There is nothing more powerful than shareholders of a company to ensure your business practices are kept in check. What does amaze me though, is not only in my view the over priced initial valuation being mooted around, but also the fact that the operation is indeed in a position whereby it can float.

 

[amandajm]

What amazes me though is the fact that someone can have the brainstorm to actually write an article about Casinomeister being gaged. What an easier way of getting some personal vendeta going and publishing a blog taking on the most recognised and respected person in the industry and suggest that he has been gagged by a casino owner, whilst supposedly being the casino watchdog. Mmmmmm

Anyone who even tries to gag the Meister will fail in the end, 1 way or the other, 1 fine day or sooner. That is the essence of the blog post.

Bryan has the public backing of that Blog writer (me) . That blog writer does not sig link here for traffic. That blog writer asks Bryan for permission for any content ever taken and has prior permission to report news from the news section with the approriate link to the source.

That blog owner does not however, have to run every opinion, based upon info gleaned from here, by the Meister for approval. Bryan won't want to hear it most of the time.

The opinion that Warren Cloud has tried to gag the Meister but will ultimately fail, proven by the mere presence of said blog posts in google and more importantly, on blog search facilities like technorati, is sound and stands until proven otherwise.

Or if Bryan says Joey, move that post from the blog eh, it is factually too far off the mark to stand, or indeed if he just wants it gone. It will begone.

# I also have less than no pull in the industry. I just add heat by volume, where I deem it necissary.

 

[thelawnet]

What amazes me though is the fact that someone can have the brainstorm to actually write an article about Casinomeister being gaged. What an easier way of getting some personal vendeta going and publishing a blog taking on the most recognised and respected person in the industry and suggest that he has been gagged by a casino owner, whilst supposedly being the casino watchdog. Mmmmmm

Sorry but I think get of your high horse thelawnet. You are as far as I am concerned out of line. Bryan has helped more people than you can dream of helping. He has earned my respect and I know if he takes a dicision it is based on a mature level This blog smells like rotten fish...

Er well the blog has actually got nothing to do with me, I just searched google for 'warren cloud casinomeister', and found that somebody had noticed that certain Crystal Palace threads were no longer up and reached their own conclusion. I also linked to the second site, which reported and then contradicted the first. Neither are mine, but in the absence of anything on the site to say 'Crystal Palace have fixed their issues', or a listing on the 'past issues' section, and given the history of the man being just about as abusive to Bryan as is possible, saying that Casinomeister members were not welcome at his casinos, etc., it's easy to see why people might not assume that Bryan and Warren had kissed and made up.

 

[thelawnet]

Having frequently visited the IOM and with e-commerce business associates and friends in the financial and investment sector on the Isle of Man I would have to take issue with scrollock on his comments about the island, however.

Their financial services supervisory is strict and professional from what I can see and hear, and I believe the intentions are good when it comes to online gambling, although they got off on the wrong foot with overly draconian and bureaucratic procedures - a situation they have since recognised and addressed but which cost them dearly.

Although the Tynwald (which I am told is one of the oldest parliaments in Europe btw) gives the island its laws and has self-governing status, it has a Lieutenant Governor appointed by the UK and is heavily and amicably influenced by that country's government, with a number of joint treaties.

The reasons why so many companies find it attractive as a European operating base in diverse industries are in my opinion because it has a quality international banking, business and technical infrastructure; a well educated and English speaking pool for local staff recruitment; good geographical proximity to major European markets; accessible authorities and perhaps most of all a very business and personal friendly tax regime.

I had not heard that Crystal Gaming had been registered on the island but it does look as if in pursuing a credible listing, the company is seeking to move away from its Costa Rican past and is presumably preparing to submit itself to what is likely to be stringent UK licensing conditions in the not too distant future. That's another safeguard for the player imo, because the Brits will be doing this well and in a professional manner.

I would take any news about Crystal Palace moving to the Isle of Man with about a tonne of salt.

The Isle of Man is just about the most regulated place for a casino to be, and along with Gibraltar, a casino being registered in one of these British territories is just about as solid a guarantee as you can get that the casino is legit.

Crystal Palace still looks to me like a dump, and certainly in no way in the class of Gibraltar/Isle of Man outfits such as Paddy Power, Belle Rock or Ladbrokes.

Just take a look at the site:

Crystal Palace Casino is a SafeBet certified online casino which means our online casino games are independently tested by a well-respected, non-profit gaming organization. Safebet membership for online casinos requires sufficient resources to operate at the highest standards and fair play.

Safebet???

And with still terms like (paraphrased) 'We will confiscate your winnings if we determine you have abused our bonus. Abuse is something defined by us at the time, so we can basically confiscate your winnings for any reason'

They might have a shell company on the Isle of Man for PR purposes, much in the same way as Vegas Frontier (and a lot of other RTGs) is currently registered from a 'Start your own Company' company with a mailing address in Dorking, but is really still the same shadowy offshore RTG casino.

But I can't see any sign that they could or would want to comply to the standards of the Isle of Man.

 

[jetset]

What we are all doing here is speculating, really because outside of the media reportage based on the listing advisers' comments and the company press release little else is known about the listing at this stage.

The intention to invest in the online poker sector should not be a surprise, given the phenomenal growth in that area of the industry - the Party Gaming pessimism recently notwithstanding.

Merely registering a company for business on the Isle of Man does not imply that it has an Isle of Man license, of course.

Whether that has been done merely for "PR purposes" or with the intention to take it a seriously credible step further by applying for an Isle of Man interactive gambling license as a prelude to a London listing remains to be seen as this IPO progresses. That could be another player safeguard - but perhaps the intention is to go directly for a UK license where the process and regulations will probably be stricter, but have more cred. in both player and business perspective terms.

Whatever is thought of Cloud personally, on the face of these reports he appears to be running a prosperous business as RTG's biggest operator with $20.4 million a year in profits. The obvious response to that is that it has been at the expense of screwed players, but running a successful business requires more than that.

This is going to be an interesting listing campaign to watch.

 

[thelawnet]

What we are all doing here is speculating, really because outside of the media reportage based on the listing advisers' comments and the company press release little else is known about the listing at this stage.

The intention to invest in the online poker sector should not be a surprise, given the phenomenal growth in that area of the industry - the Party Gaming pessimism recently notwithstanding.

Merely registering a company for business on the Isle of Man does not imply that it has an Isle of Man license, of course.

Whether that has been done merely for "PR purposes" or with the intention to take it a seriously credible step further by applying for an Isle of Man interactive gambling license as a prelude to a London listing remains to be seen as this IPO progresses. That could be another player safeguard - but perhaps the intention is to go directly for a UK license where the process and regulations will probably be stricter, but have more cred. in both player and business perspective terms.

Whatever is thought of Cloud personally, on the face of these reports he appears to be running a prosperous business as RTG's biggest operator with $20.4 million a year in profits. The obvious response to that is that it has been at the expense of screwed players, but running a successful business requires more than that.

This is going to be an interesting listing campaign to watch.

Indeed it will.

140m is a reasonable chunk of change. Certainly there has been a fair degree of interest in larger flotations - Ultimate bet for around 200m has had a fair bit of coverage.

As this progresses I think there will be interest.

A lot of people have been interested in gambling stocks, as it's a new concept, something that people can understand, and people see the potential for growth.

So as this one moves forward, a lot of people will investigate buying shares, because let's face it gambling stocks are sexy.

That's why I think it's important that the historical record is there. 18 months, two years ago is all we are talking about for these activities. That is not a long time. Two years is extremely recent when you are talking about the soon-to-be head of a public company. With reports on multiple sites that they are 'rogue' or 'evil'. One place I saw marked them as rogue only in April, apparently due to 'rudeness' of their customer service.

With all this baggage, and very recent history of bad behaviour, who would want to jump into that? Maye all publicity is good publicity, but if you are a financial journalist or a potential investor, what on earth are you going to think about this?

https://www.casinomeister.com/static/images/screenshots/wol.html

Jetset sucks Bryan Baileys Balls and sodomises Max

Here is an example of Warren Cloud's tact and public image. It is widely known that his handle at Winneronline's forum is "Cashhunter". He obviously is a heavy drinker, and probably doesn't even remember making this post. I've made this screenshot as a reminder for him when he wakes up from his hangover.

Warren Cloud is the operator of Real Time Gaming's Crystal Palace Group.

And this is the man who will be leading this company into an IPO? Ouch.


And finally, re the Isle of Man, they seem extremely shadowy. What is it with casinos and transparency? That press release indicates that they are 'Isle-of-man based'.... Since when? They very well may be, but there website is registered to Doleplex Trading in Cyprus.

They say:

This casino is owned and operated by Dolepex Trading Ltd., 4th Floor, 5 Costis Palamas Street, Nicosia 1305, Cyprus.

So no mention of the Isle of Man at all, ever, before this press release. Not really signs to me of a company turning over a new leaf (with Safebet on their site ha) and going straight.... No transparency whatsoever.

 

[Casinomeister]

Just jumping in here real fast. I'll answer more questions come Monday (I've got a lot of shit to do this weekend), but I see that I've broken my own rules with the screenshot of the posting at WOL.

...It is widely known that his handle at Winneronline's forum is "Cashhunter". blah blah blah.

Well, it's rumored to be a handle used by Oliver Curran, Cloud and others. You can check out WOL and see for yourself:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

As for drinking too much. Well, who knows. This is only speculation and was intended as a joke.

 

[thelawnet]

Just jumping in here real fast. I'll answer more questions come Monday (I've got a lot of shit to do this weekend), but I see that I've broken my own rules with the screenshot of the posting at WOL.



Well, it's rumored to be a handle used by Oliver Curran, Cloud and others. You can check out WOL and see for yourself:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

As for drinking too much. Well, who knows. This is only speculation and was intended as a joke.

I see you have corrected it now. Just curious that you refer to the alias being used by Warren Cloud OR his manager Oliver Curran.

I thought it was concluded that the two are very likely to be one and the same.

 

[Casinomeister]

...I thought it was concluded that the two are very likely to be one and the same.

Who concluded? Some anonymous posters on a message board? After discussing this with a number of sources, and reviewing my own emails, I'm pretty sure it's two separate people.

 

[thelawnet]

Who concluded? Some anonymous posters on a message board? After discussing this with a number of sources, and reviewing my own emails, I'm pretty sure it's two separate people.

Well I actually got that idea from one of your old newsletters.

Firstly:

https://www.casinomeister.com/static/news/nov2003.html

Bailey had another bone to pick with Cloud, however and that was the appallingly arrogant and abusive attitude of one Oliver Curran. There are conflicting views over whether Curran is just an uncontrollable Cloud employee, or another one of Cloud's several aliases but the fact is that players have been complaining about both his attitude toward clients and his unfair decisions, and he has made some pretty silly message board postings that have not enhanced his reputation or that of the casino group he purports to manage with Cloud.

Bailey has reversed the casino ID process to resolve this Cloud/Curran identity conundrum once and for all, and has asked Cloud to furnish authentic ID documents in respect of both himself and Curran. These will not be made public, but the 'Meister's verdict on this schizophrenic issue will be accepted by most! That's of course if the IDs are forthcoming.

and then

https://www.casinomeister.com/static/newsletter/2003/4december2003.html

CRYSTAL PALACE GROUP
Ongoing saga: I've been waiting all week for photographic proof (via ID documents) that Warren Cloud and Oliver Curran are separate persons. After discussing this with a number of well connected people, I've come to the half-assed conclusion that Oliver Curran is a made up fake name for whomever is managing the casino. This is why there is no ID coming from this person. So if you see a posting from "Oliver Curran", it's probably just some guy sitting there snickering to himself that he's known by another name. You don't know who he is. It's not a well made up name either, is it? It's not like Chad, or Jay, or something distinguished like Winston. It's Oliver. When I think of Oliver, I think of that little poor kid that Dickens wrote about, begging for another bowl of mush. Or some big dude, like Oliver Hardy. Or I think of an Olive stuffed with a red pimento. Whatever the case may be, Warren Cloud still owes me answers on a few complaints at Crystal Palace.

Incidentally, there's another Crystal Palace thread I couldn't access: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/install/index.php?upgrade/.

Not sure why?

Edit: I found it in Google's cache, cached in February this year (orginal post was July 2004). Just seems to refer to a takeover by Crystal Palace of some other RTGs. Seems pretty inoffensive stuff.

 

[thelawnet]

there is more on the float here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Warren Cloud, the South African founder of Crystal Gaming, has a mixed reputation within the online gambling industry.

I wouldnt want anything to do with him, one online casino operator who did not wish to be named told eGaming Review.

...

Tim Rosenberg, from Gambling.com, said.

But they have done a lot to clean their act up, and there have been no complaints I am aware of in the past twelve months, he added.

...

Crystal is expected to appoint a high profile chairman next week.

So Warren won't be chairman?

 

[jetset]

Hauling out two year old opinions can be informative but not necessarily constructive, I'm afraid - things happen and can change over time, and what we thought then is not necessarily proof of what we might believe to be the case now in a dynamic industry.

Several posters on this board have good contacts and try to keep up to speed with who's doing what to whom, but I have yet to meet anyone who can conclusively prove that Curran is a distinct personality from Cloud, or for that matter is one and the same person as Cloud. That's one of the drawbacks of the Internet, unfortunately. It would be interesting to know. For certain. It doesn't excuse the conduct attributed to either of them in the past, but it is one of the industrys intriguing conundrums despite that and could be a behavioural indicator.

This comment from a Crystal Gaming source in the EGR piece probably holds some basic truth, ""What investors are looking for is a management team that understands the online gaming business and can generate profits for shareholders." On the basis of the presumably audited figures issued so far that's a positive for Crystal Gaming.

But taking that in isolation would not be a good way to make an assessment imo - reputation in this business is hugely important - at the business and industry level and at the player community level. So in a run-up to an IPO campaign there could also be a move to clean house, too - as Tim Rosenberg at Gambling.com says "But they have done a lot to clean their act up, and there have been no complaints I am aware of in the past twelve months.

That has been my general experience, too and considering the probably hundreds of thousands of transactions that routinely take place at successful online casinos every day it is something to ponder.

Seymour Pierce are seasoned advisers, and I think we may just be seeing the start of this campaign, which will undoubtedly include briefings to investment banks and brokers and more publicity. I look forward especially to the identity of the chairman, as it would seem that Cloud will continue to run the group.

We should also note that Crystal Gaming seems to be the company set up to go after the IPO, so there is not necessarily any conflict with domiciles elsewhere of companies in which Crystal Gaming has or will have an interest - like Doloplex or the casinos themselves.

This is not unusual in international business providing that links are declared where required. How the strategic structure of the entire group fleshes out is going to be interesting as this will have to take into account tax and licensing considerations, too.

 

[Webzcas]

What I would like to know is, how with all the negative publicity that Palace and Cloud have accrued over the years, are CP worth a potential 140million Pounds!

I find that truly amazing!

 

[jetset]

It's normally an assessment that looks at all the operating factors of the company and its potential - the management, in-house expertise, assets and revenues, liabilities and of course profits. It has to be pegged at something that is credible to the market, independent analysts and the business media as well as potential investors, and it is usually worked out in consultation with outsiders like the investment advisers hired to guide the IPO.

 

[Casinomeister]

Well I actually got that idea from one of your old newsletters.

Firstly:

https://www.casinomeister.com/static/news/nov2003.html


and then

https://www.casinomeister.com/static/newsletter/2003/4december2003.html


Incidentally, there's another Crystal Palace thread I couldn't access: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/install/index.php?upgrade/.

Not sure why?

Edit: I found it in Google's cache, cached in February this year (orginal post was July 2004). Just seems to refer to a takeover by Crystal Palace of some other RTGs. Seems pretty inoffensive stuff.

C'mon, you're going back two years. Since then, Warren and I started up a dialogue (that has had its rocky moments), and he told me the deal about Curran [the manager(s)] and himself. I think I have explained this a number of times.

The other forum link that was moved? Sorry but with statements like this:

Just kill that guy...
He still owes me 450$...

and several other similar transgressions made me feel that these threatening and potentially libelous statements were putting this website at risk. I do not condone these sorts of postings, and members who make these sorts of ridiculous and irresponsible statements are the ones to blame for having these moved from the public sections. I will not have all the work I have done for this industry jeapordized or put at risk buy some anonymous posters. I'm sure you would agree with this.

 

[thelawnet]

C'mon, you're going back two years. Since then, Warren and I started up a dialogue (that has had its rocky moments), and he told me the deal about Curran [the manager(s)] and himself. I think I have explained this a number of times.

Ok, I guess the multitude of anonymous forum posters reinforced the idea that they were one and the same . Ideas breed quickly on the internet.

The other forum link that was moved? Sorry but with statements like this:

Just kill that guy...
He still owes me 450$...

and several other similar transgressions made me feel that these threatening and potentially libelous statements were putting this website at risk. I do not condone these sorts of postings, and members who make these sorts of ridiculous and irresponsible statements are the ones to blame for having these moved from the public sections. I will not have all the work I have done for this industry jeapordized or put at risk buy some anonymous posters. I'm sure you would agree with this.

I do, and wouldn't have thought anything of it had the statements had been nuked at the time. As it is they were up on the public internet until recently (about a year) you presumably didn't think they were problematic at the time. I guess something caused you to revisit them, as they were not exactly prominent on your site.

 

[Casinomeister]

...I do, and wouldn't have thought anything of it had the statements had been nuked at the time. As it is they were up on the public internet until recently (about a year) you presumably didn't think they were problematic at the time. I guess something caused you to revisit them, as they were not exactly prominent on your site.

It's a question of being able to nail things right when they happen. This is an active board, and sometimes I have to rely on alert members to draw my attention to something that may be offensive. So I am not flawless when it comes to administrating the Casinomeister SOP. I should have nuked that post instead of issuing a stern warning. I didn't. Maybe I'll revisit the thread - remove the offending posts and move it back into public view.

 

[caruso]

Maybe I'll revisit the thread - remove the offending posts and move it back into public view.

Far too much to comment on in one sitting, but since you comment here on a matter in the back of my mind today:

This is heavy stuff going on right now with this proposed float. Information that could be "acceptably" covered up back then is now RELEVANT information. The "F*** y**, Bryan, I make more in a week than you make in a year" I have no idea why that went, or where it went to. But, the threads which you claim contain comment sufficiently over the top to require shifting to the private area I HIGHLY recommend retrieving. All the complaint threads, plus my "deposit trick" thread - it's still as relevant then as now. However you want them cleaned up, clean them up - hell, I'll happily edit every single one of my posts with something along the lines of "I apologise to Cloud for any personally offensive remarks I made in the heat of the moment. I retract them all, and will let the facts speak for themselves" - or something like that.

Either way, ALL that information is important - the "f*** y**" article as much as any, as it clearly casts doubts on the character and trustworthiness of the individual seeking $45,000,000 of the public's money.

In the interests of all concerned, that information should be back where it belongs - and, assuming all offensive and non-factual comment is removed, I can see no reason why it shouldn't be.

 

[thelawnet]

Either way, ALL that information is important - the "fuck you" article as much as any, as it clearly casts doubts on the character and trustworthiness of the individual seeking $45,000,000 of the public's money.

Actually 47,000,000, so about $83,000,000.

 

[spearmaster]

I'm not paying too much attention to relevance here since it's early morning, and I have plenty of other things on my mind which take priority over scrutinizing every last bit of old and current threads about CP.

For the moment, I'm just cleaning up a few bits with soap because we do need to try and keep things simple and clean here - but the editing of those words does not in any way change the content.

As for moving threads about - Meister has his reasons for having moved these threads some time ago. I feel pretty confident in saying that he did not move these threads for any reason other than irrelevance, and not because he was asked or forced to do so.

In any case, I would like to remind members here to try and keep things civil here. At the first sign of unwelcome heat I will start giving away vacations again

 

[Casinomeister]

Up to this point, I've been referring to the threads that were moved on the site, but it has been pointed out to me these are cached at google, thus I see no need in moving them again. I've already given you my explanations on their removal, and my decision stands firm. If you don't like the way this is, sorry.

And for those of you raggin' on me like there's some conspiracy, sorry to disappoint you - there ain't one. I've spent way too much time on this so far, most of the things that have been brought up are merely rehashing things I've already covered. Perhaps some of you should direct the energy you're putting into this into something more constructive.

I have a crapload of PABs to deal with. Please let me get busy with these. Thanks!

 

[caruso]

You said:

and I will not tolerate my website to become the platform for a few individuals to make inflammatory statements

I've just looked back through the thread in the main forum you locked, and can find nothing "inflammatory", other than a joking suggesting to short-sell if and when this opens. My own comments relate to the deposit trick and the recent ante-upped promos. This is factual. The comment made about the balance sheet in relation to to these promos is interesting and relevant. What was "inflammatory"?

This is FACTUAL INFORMATION. When Mike Shakleford had the Casino Bar lawyers on his ass, he said "Since I only am reporting truthfully what happened to me...I see no reason to feel accountable." Just because the factual information is unpleasant doesn't make it any less factual. It's not my fault it's unpleasant, or yours, or any of the posters here. And FACTUAL information is unimpeachable. In addition to that, it's IMPORTANT information. Heck, this is the first ever proposed RTG float - of eleven casinos, fully twenty five percent of the ENTIRE RTG stable as listed on the clients page. And there's a lot of money involved, almost 100 million dollars. And whether you like it or not, the moving force behind that twenty five percent of the entire RTG stable has had, and has, a questionable record, factually recorded. FACTUALLY.

It's my opinion that censoring this important information is wrong. As long as it's FACTUAL, there is no possible comeback on you, legal or otherwise. And this is not information known to the larger public. We know it, because we're involved. We have a duty to those who aren't to report FACTUAL information that could benefit them.

I'm perplexed that we seem to be in such apparent disagreement on this.

 

[eek]

Stress relieving musical interlude for those that need it.
lets boogie

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Casinomeister]

Stress relieving musical interlude for those that need it.
lets boogie

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

All that does is make me want to punch my computer screen.

...I've just looked back through the thread in the main forum you locked, and can find nothing "inflammatory", other than a joking suggesting to short-sell if and when this opens...

The due diligence and prospectus for the Public Offer by Seymour Pierce on one of the biggest and best known rogues in the business should make for some interesting reading.
++++++++++
This is an all-time joke. Due diligence? Corporate fitness? Or do they just look at the balance sheet, see a figure with twenty zeros after it and go ahead on that basis?

Would the UK A.I.M. have run with alcapone.com?

What is the legal situation regarding flotations of companies that use deception and duplicity to get their customers' wallets open?
++++++++++
The way to shaft Mr Cloud is to find an irregularity in the profit forecasts, such as describing as "exceptional items" the confiscated winnings of players as being a contribution to forecast profits.
++++++++++
Perhaps there is still a chance for this IPO to be killed off before the suits in the city get their fingers burned as well as players.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
The difference being that CON actually PAID, of course.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
this isn't about the Mount Everest of complaints we've seen over time and the obnoxious public stance of Cloud - all that's now got harder to provide evidence for after the removal of useful threads and articles.
++++++++++++++++++++++
I am now full throttled to do short sell Crystal Palace as instantly
as they are on the stock chart.


That's enough for me to lock the thread because it was going nowhere but to the caruso lair of the damned. I locked the thread, and stated exactly why. I don't need to do the same here.

I have also explained why threads and articles were moved, most of these are cached anyway so what the hell?

Factual information? I disagree. You can't compare M. Shackelford's casino findings with this. Casinobar's situation was mathematics. I hate to say this but much of what you are bringing up is based on hearsay and the discontent of a handful of players - mostly people who were banned from his casinos. The thing is, in most cases these players were paid their winnings. I remember you received yours, didn't you??

The only thing that is messed up is that there are still some banned players who still receive mailshots (like you did). In most cases these are sent to email addresses other than the one used by the banned account. The other messed up thing is the safebet logos. They've never been removed, but I'll see if I can't make that happen.

Here is a fact, and you may hate to hear this, but I rarely receive complaints nowadays for the Crystal Palace casinos. So what the hell am I supposed to do about that? I believe that owners and operators should be given the chance to right their wrongs, and I feel that is what has been happening here for the past couple of years. I believe in giving credit where credit is due; you seem not to be able to fathom this - thus the nemesis for the disagreement.

Finally, if you feel that you need to keeping ranting on about this, please go elsewhere. These postings are no longer welcome here. I am only asking you to respect this board and my website.