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Corrupt Casino Watchdog Discussion

Discussion in 'Casino Industry Discussion' started by amandajm, Feb 13, 2006.

    Feb 13, 2006
  1. amandajm

    amandajm Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Watch
    Location:
    London
    I know Ladbrokes from the street for 15 years. Top operation. You must register/login in order to see the link. sealed.

    Theoretical scenario >> I have no money. Just about to sign a 250k advert deal. Ladbrokes decide to take a stand on apparent bonus abuse over 20 on 1 random player out of 1000 and pay the rest, then move them on, to make a point.

    CPA showed me the way. I listen when taught. Because I would sign the 250k deal.

    Corrupted? Is Caruso right? (see below)

    Question - Can a portal take advertising money and take a stand on principle for the player in EVERY situation that arises?

     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Feb 13, 2006
  3. scrollock

    scrollock Senior Member

    Occupation:
    google
    Location:
    boro, uk
    the problem with affiliate banners, is that if a decision needs to be made regarding keeping a certain casinos banners, is that it requires a subjective decision, however as money is involved, then the chances of this decision being made impartially is very much reduced and much more likely to side with a persons own greed (no matter how much they deny it)

    this is akin to a casino which rules on it own disputes without an outside body (such as playtech at the moment), the chances of having a fair and impartial decision is very much reduced as the companies balance sheet will decide the result and not what it is fair.

    when it comes to affiliates taking down banners on the point of principle that they would rather forgo an affiliate payment than have a player ripped off, well i just simply dont buy it.

    affiliates will take down the banners of rogue casinos because they dont want their site tarnished and their integrity questioned, as they know if they have a rogue casino on their site they know the informed player will simply not return to the site, thus the affiliate is thinking with his pocket

    another thing is, if a casino is rogue and doesnt honour paying out winning customers, then the chances of them being honourable with their affiate deals is much reduced, so any sensible webmaster would keep away from them, again the webmaster is thinking with his own pocket.

    going back to the hypothetical scenario, i dont think there is any webmaster in this virtual world who would take a stand on matter of principle over one customer and one small payment.

    the only time a webmaster takes action is when his own income threatened either by a casino being so rogue it wont pay up, or a casinos reputation has become so bad that it threatens the traffic to the site.
     
  4. Feb 13, 2006
  5. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Speaking from experience, if there is a 250k deal or even a 50k deal going on, then it's definitely not a watchdog site.

    I would suppose that webmaster - starring hard at the 250k, and on the other hand at some obnoxious bonus whore - that webmaster would probably chose the money.

    If we're going to make a debate about this cash vs integrity thing, how about making the scenario a bit more realistic :D
     
  6. Feb 13, 2006
  7. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    This should be interesting. And I am gonna bite my tongue as hard as I can, lol.
     
  8. Feb 13, 2006
  9. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    How about this - you're just getting ready to accept a 2k media buy from xyz casino, and the day before the campaign is being launched, someone complains on some other portal's message board that his winnings have been confiscated. That's all the details you have. What do you do?
     
  10. Feb 13, 2006
  11. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Oh, and the xyzcasino is licensed in Malta, and has been in business for six months. It doesn't take US players.
     
  12. Feb 13, 2006
  13. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I do believe some webmasters can be objective if that's your question. I believe there are some good people in the world where not everything centres around money. Probably a minority though more's the pity.
     
  14. Feb 13, 2006
  15. swampwitch

    swampwitch ProfessionalUnderachiever CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Independent craftsperson specializing in chenille
    Location:
    Iowa, dammit.
    PM the player in question and ask permission to look into the problem for him. Weigh both sides. If the casino is clearly at fault, or won't answer questions satisfactorily, do not accept their business and/or drop them from your site. If the player is clearly at fault, let him know that you can't go to bat for them because of this. If the dispute turns out to be a 50/50 at fault ambiguous mess, try to mediate a comfortable solution for both parties.

    Now, where did I put those rose colored glasses.....:rolleyes:
     
  16. Feb 13, 2006
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    But let's say you have no way to get in touch with the player. You're not a member of the other portal's message board - and you have no way to test the validity of the player's complaint.
     
  18. Feb 13, 2006
  19. scrollock

    scrollock Senior Member

    Occupation:
    google
    Location:
    boro, uk
    ideal solution and an ideal world, unfortunatly both dont exist.

    for the simple fact is, when faced with only one dispute the webmaster will vote with his pocket and sweep the matter under the carpet,he will only take action when there are so many compliants that he is unable to sweep them away and will only then do it then because it will affect his other income.
     
  20. Feb 13, 2006
  21. swampwitch

    swampwitch ProfessionalUnderachiever CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Independent craftsperson specializing in chenille
    Location:
    Iowa, dammit.
    Just join the forum. I can't even tell you how many forums I'm a member of and never go back. Then you can post and/or pm the person. Also, if you're already doing business with the casino in question, it shouldn't b too hard to get "your guy" to look into the problem.

    Of course this doesn't take into account the occasional putz who just plain lost and decides to post all over hell about how "crooked" xyz casino is and then just disappears. Or the rival forum owner who creates a new account and posts just to discredit the other forum's choices in sponsors.

    Here's the point...Any forum/portal owner who takes a lucrative deal and then does not also look out for the players AND the casino's he/she represents is not a person one should be downloading from. The definition of "fairness" may not always be black and white, but the best we can do is at least TRY to be aboveboard.

    The argument can be made that there is no such thing as a "true" watchdog, because all current watchdogs also either promote casinos/bingo/poker/sportsbooks...OR....the money used to run the watchdog is provided by gambling venues. BUT, each portal/forum has the responsibilty to watchdog what goes on.

    So, watchdog as VERB is what we should all aspire to.
     
    3 people like this.
  22. Feb 13, 2006
  23. swampwitch

    swampwitch ProfessionalUnderachiever CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Independent craftsperson specializing in chenille
    Location:
    Iowa, dammit.
    Sorry scrollock, but we're not all like that. I know Sorrelltop and myself have dropped our share of casinos and poker rooms who haven't lived up to what we believe is fairness to the player...and lost quite a bit of income in the process. Hell, Bryan's dropped entire software groups.

    Please don't paint all webmasters with the same brush.
     
  24. Feb 13, 2006
  25. swampwitch

    swampwitch ProfessionalUnderachiever CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Independent craftsperson specializing in chenille
    Location:
    Iowa, dammit.
    To be fair....we also ban cheating, scamming players too.:mad:
     
  26. Feb 13, 2006
  27. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Just out of interest JoeyL, what's your take on it?

    Cheers

    Simmo!

    [edit: just saw Caruso's take on it in another thread so removed part of the question]
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2006
  28. Feb 13, 2006
  29. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Up to here, you're correct. Webmasters always vote with their pockets. I voted many times with my empty pockets - to keep them empty. And I don't doubt that sometimes, I might vote to fill my pockets if I believe the dispute isn't valid - and believe me many of the complaints that find their way to the forums are far from valid.

    As for sweeping under the carpet - in my case at least, you're wrong. In Meister's case, I'm pretty sure you're wrong too. And as for the rest of the webmasters, they will speak up for themselves, you can be quite certain.

    Like swampwitch said, don't paint us all with the same brush. After all, we don't paint all players with the same brush either (especially since most of us are also players!)
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2006
    2 people like this.
  30. Feb 13, 2006
  31. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Swampy, you just made me remember (again) why I love you and Sorrell so much. You have voiced perfectly everything that I feel about this issue, thanks!!! Excellent points. Especially this one....

     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Feb 13, 2006
  33. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Well, for whatever reason amandajm entitled the thread "Corrupt Casino Watchdog Discussion" not "Corrupt Casino Portal Discussion" Some of us may be missing something here.

    Scrollock - it's a sad day in Casinomeisterland since you think that webmasters like me would say screw the player and take the the 2k. :(
     
  34. Feb 13, 2006
  35. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    You will have noted I know sod all about this after my "50K media buy" example.

    1) Take the deal - innocent until proven guilty.

    2) Investigate the complaint.

    3) If valid, pay back the money and pull the banner.

    Why would you even CONTEMPLATE anything else? I wouldn't - and if the situation ever arises, you're more than welcome to quote me.

    Of course, I'm assuming 3) is an option - so see my "know sod all" caveat.
     
  36. Feb 13, 2006
  37. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Oldtimers like me never join other message boards unless they are non-casino related. I eat in my own restaraunt and not across the street :D

    I think common sense rules on this one. If you're taking money from someone, you got to know who you are dealing with, and if there is anything that makes you uncomfortable about this - then don't do it. Simple as that.

    I'm moving this to the "Industry Discussion Section" since this is strictly industry related.
     
  38. Feb 13, 2006
  39. swampwitch

    swampwitch ProfessionalUnderachiever CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Independent craftsperson specializing in chenille
    Location:
    Iowa, dammit.
    Silly me.
     

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