Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[Slottery]

The human rights angle has been argued IIRC and the conclusion of it was the measures represented a departure from them but that the right to life trumped them.

That same still exist when very few people even get sick and die? It might got changed a little bit and if you have lockdown people already for two months, assume that you would need quite strong reason to continue it for ever.

At least government there seem to think people already could start to have some rights again instead of forced to stay home but don't really see where's that other argument to force whole population to do it, like said, nobody force anyone to get in places where they don't like to go.

With these numbers it's just hard to see it be reasonable anymore to continue it much further.

 

[pinnit2014]

That same still exist when very few people even get sick and die? It might got changed a little bit and if you have lockdown people already for two months, assume that you would need quite strong reason to continue it for ever.

At least government there seem to think people already could start to have some rights again instead of forced to stay home but don't really see where's that other argument to force whole population to do it, like said, nobody force anyone to get in places where they don't like to go.

With these numbers it's just hard to see it be reasonable anymore to continue it much further.

It's not being continued anymore in it's strictest format (bar the shielders)

The lockdown, thus far is lifting (well more in England than Scotland) - only those to be shielded are now told to stay inside - construction works beginning etc.

Work places are getting ready to re-open, albeit with staggered hours etc.

One thing that some shops etc may be peeved at is that they'll be told to have social distancing in place etc, or they can't open - i imagine some of them will point out their window, to things like Harry posted and go 'wot, like that?' - though they may well cut it from the 2m's to 1/1.5? I dunno

 

[pinnit2014]

There was a challenge to the legality of the Lockdown in the UK, some guy in aviation?, not sure how far it got

 

[Borgie]

Really? In whole UK, don't know where that measure is wanted then but i wouldn't consider it so high that all restrictions still should stay in place.

It seems that the government have decided bit same, so just wonder where that wish to these are coming from and how fair it's to make it mandatory to all? Staying home locked down is possible without it being mandatory so think it would be more fair to let people who wish to live bit more normal to it instead forcing everybody to stay home. Guess also government decision to easy these restriction is based on something (at least hope they haven't have a coinflip) and maybe they even listen some virologist and other peeps who should be able to make some educated guess about situation.

Just wonder where that's based that restrictions should remain and how much of population is actually supporting it and ready to force others to do what they want.

I get where you are coming from and I believe a lot of restrictions must now be lifted and they have been and more will be lifted tomorrow and on the 15th

However to answer your point about people being trusted to do things right and the government not mandate they must do things and then being able to choose for themselves. The issue is that its not just about that individual and their wants and their choice. If an able bodied person with no prior health conditions had said hey no real risk to me here off I go. So off they go and contract the virus and un knowingly infect vulnerable ones who get seriously ill or may even die. Is that ok too. ? We are past that point now so it's not applicable any more .

I was a little surprised vulnerable people are no longer being asked to isolate. Will see how that goes.

 

[Borgie]

It's not being continued anymore in it's strictest format (bar the shielders)

The lockdown, thus far is lifting (well more in England than Scotland) - only those to be shielded are now told to stay inside - construction works beginning etc.

Work places are getting ready to re-open, albeit with staggered hours etc.

One thing that some shops etc may be peeved at is that they'll be told to have social distancing in place etc, or they can't open - i imagine some of them will point out their window, to things like Harry posted and go 'wot, like that?' - though they may well cut it from the 2m's to 1/1.5? I dunno

Those shielding in England are allowed to go out once a day from tomorrow with one other person so even that is changing.

 

[pinnit2014]

Those shielding in England are allowed to go out once a day from tonorrow with one other person so even that is changing.

I was speaking to my mum the other day and in our council area the R number had shot up from around 1 to just shy of 3 in 5 days: quite a lot of regional variations for such a small country (NI)

 

[Borgie]

I was speaking to my mum the other day and in our council area the R number had shot up from around 1 to just shy of 3 in 5 days: quite a lot of regional variations for such a small country (NI)

That's not good at all ! That should mean a huge increase in infections.

 

[pinnit2014]

That's not good at all ! That should mean a huge increase in infections.

In 4 days it's dropped to circa 1.5 but shows how yo-yo it can be and how a mass rise could easily happen if you're not careful - seeming two areas are sitting at 0 (Derry and Fermanagh)

Probably why there's calls for different approaches across different areas

 

[cncas2123]

In 4 days it's dropped to circa 1.5 but shows how yo-yo it can be and how a mass rise could easily happen if you're not careful - seeming two areas are sitting at 0 (Derry and Fermanagh)

Probably why there's calls for different approaches across different areas

I think the official deaths in NI is under 600 which pro rata reads well compared to the rest of the uk and also the ROI but it’s mostly been down to people following lockdown but I’ve definitely seen a rise in the last 7 - 10 days in the number of cars on the roads and the number of people out and about so I’m not surprised they expect a rise in the R number , but bear in mind the countries population concentration so it will be more the bigger towns and the cities that will be affected.
On the positive side I think we only had 5 deaths yesterday and we had 1 day this week with zero deaths.

 

[Guntis]

Since from 15th June businesses will start to open, I'm looking forward to seeing these numbers at the end of the next month...



The full list that can be open from June 15 includes:

• Food retailers
• Chemists
• Hardware/homeware stores
• Fashion shops
• Charity shops
• Betting shops and arcades
• Tailors, dress fitters and fashion designers
• Car dealerships
• Auction houses
• Antique stores
• Retail art galleries
• Photography studios
• Gift shops and retail spaces in theatres, museums, libraries, heritage sites and tourism sites
• Mobile phone stores
• Indoor and outdoor markets
• Craft fairs
• Similar types of retail

 

[cncas2123]

The human rights angle has been argued IIRC and the conclusion of it was the measures represented a departure from them but that the right to life trumped them.

Two reporters in Dublin took the Irish Government to court on something similar , said the new laws were an infringement on their constitutional rights , but it got thrown out plus they got hit with the costs .
In my eyes how can anyone , apart from a conspiracy theorist, not see that this was being done to protect the citizens of the country?

 

[pinnit2014]

I'm getting jip from my wisdom tooth so right now am only interested in dentistry: think Mrs P is getting fed up with me saying 'If hear one more time a F@@@@@@ garden centre can open...'

 

[Slottery]

When looking that picture it seems it's not only very few people who would like to risk their lives"

Two reporters in Dublin took the Irish Government to court on something similar , said the new laws were an infringement on their constitutional rights , but it got thrown out plus they got hit with the costs .
In my eyes how can anyone , apart from a conspiracy theorist, not see that this was being done to protect the citizens of the country?

My question related to this was more that for how long it could be generally accepted, as there's not such a danger anymore that people couldn't be outside few kilometers from home etc... Sure it earlier it was done to protect people, but such extreme actions like locking people home should in my opinion only be used when really necessary and that's not really case anymore, now could let people chose themselves if they wanna risk their lives or not, staying home and avoid people stay as an option for all who wish to do that, nobody come other people home to spread anything if you don't open the door.

Not all really like that much this extended protection from the government in country of the free world. But happily that start to be over almost everywhere so no need to discuss anymore how long is reasonable and where's the line.

 

[snorky510238]

I reckon If you had a had a 5 metre length of wood and asked the world population individually to estimate where 2 metres is roughly from 1 end, that 25% would be lucky to be within half a metre of the correct mark.

 

[Kroffe]

I reckon If you had a had a 5 metre length of wood and asked the world population individually to estimate where 2 metres is roughly from 1 end, that 25% would be lucky to be within half a metre of the correct mark.

Making visual estimates is one of my many superpowers.
Very useful when baking.

 

[Kroffe]

Problem still will exist Christmas and probably longer before you get to near zero, are people happy to stay home keep world closed how many years?

Oh i have no input on that.
Just that you said "we know the symptoms so not many sick people would fly"
The long incubation period makes it kind of hard to avoid sick people flying.

 

[Slottery]

Oh i have no input on that.
Just that you said "we know the symptoms so not many sick people would fly"
The long incubation period makes it kind of hard to avoid sick people flying.

True, sorry, i seem to be bit too frustrated myself to for too much home, i fully agree with all you guys that restriction were there in place for reason. Now i feel (just my personal opinions, been fully followed all restrictions with gatherings, distances, mask in shops etc... and seem to feel annoyed about it, but it's only right thing to do, everything else is selfish and arrogant like my rant now)

 

[Kroffe]

True, sorry, i seem to be bit too frustrated myself to for too much home, i fully agree with all you guys that restriction were there in place for reason. Now i feel (just my personal opinions, been fully followed all restrictions with gatherings, distances, mask in shops etc... and seem to feel annoyed about it, but it's only right thing to do, everything else is selfish and arrogant like my rant now)

Feels like every country is trying their own thing.
But those that have done the best seems to be the ones that put in restrictions early, and had a serious lockdown.
But thats only for now i guess.
Second and third waves will be hitting every country before this is over im guessing.

 

[Slottery]

Feels like every country is trying their own thing.
But those that have done the best seems to be the ones that put in restrictions early, and had a serious lockdown.
But thats only for now i guess.
Second and third waves will be hitting every country before this is over im guessing.

That's probably one reason why personally feel bit over frustrated because this seem to be hard to forecast, would feel easier if somebody would know it's over by Christmas or next summer, would be easier to orientant. Don't really mean to disagree that restrictions have been made only good and were at least not the wrong thing to do

 

[pinnit2014]

Possibly see(n?) a gradual shift from scientific advice to political decisions so, should the ££ etc be looking too dodgy, you'll see a ramping up of unlocking

 

[Borgie]

Possibly see(n?) a gradual shift from scientific advice to political decisions so, should the ££ etc be looking too dodgy, you'll see a ramping up of unlocking

I think we are already seeing it. The scientists and doctors are saying erm not too much too soon and Boris is saying let's get back to normal make some ££ and aren't i great letting you all out. ( mutters under his breath a few of you may have to die but thats ok I've had it and am probably immune) ....

 

[pinnit2014]

I think we are already seeing it. The scientists and doctors are saying erm not too much too soon and Boris is saying let's get back to normal make some ££ and aren't i great letting you all out. ( mutters under his breath a few of you may have to die but thats ok I've had it and am probably immune) ....

I thought Van Tam the other day had a decent go at having a dig at them then asked about Cummings: yeah, you did pick up a few times when the advisors were asked questions 'Hey, I'll pick that Q up as it's unfair to ask the scientists': presumably that was code for 'Shit, i don't want them answering, they might be too honest for my liking'

 

[pinnit2014]

I wonder if any of the folk claiming Cummings had made the restrictions harder to enforce etc are stoating around London for the protests - some of them are struggling to meet 2 inches, never mind meters

 

[dealer wins]

Pathetic really these "protests" in the UK. Any excuse to push their racist agenda.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I was speaking to my mum the other day and in our council area the R number had shot up from around 1 to just shy of 3 in 5 days: quite a lot of regional variations for such a small country (NI)

In 4 days it's dropped to circa 1.5 but shows how yo-yo it can be and how a mass rise could easily happen if you're not careful - seeming two areas are sitting at 0 (Derry and Fermanagh)

Probably why there's calls for different approaches across different areas

The problem with the R is that you can't just estimate on day-to-day basis, like you said it will yo-yo. First of you should take a 7 day average and don't forget that the R is based on infections that happened 7 to 10 days ago, it's not very recent.

Add on top of that, virologists and other (medical/biological) statisticians have different methods of calculating the R. And not only that, we don't even know the true numbers and a number of countries keep COVID deaths out of their statistics and class them as "pneumonia" or "natural causes".

In other words: take it with a pound of salt.