Confiscated winnings

[Sajsan12]

Its not that hard to add under their terms & condition section for responsible gambling that “If you chose to SE, all the deposit methods you used will no longer be accepted and every deposit made with these will be voided” or something like that.

But there is no such thing.

 

[Slottery]

Everything is so clear and simple, just wonder why you waste so much time and energy to post over forums, claim complaints on different routes, keep repeating yourself to casino who have already advised you that they have given their reply and advised to go to ARN?

They possibly can give same reply to ARN decision so why to waste your time and energy and not to go to court right away?

 

[Sajsan12]

Everything is so clear and simple, just wonder why you waste so much time and energy to post over forums, claim complaints on different routes, keep repeating yourself to casino who have already advised you that they have given their reply and advised to go to ARN?

They possibly can give same reply to ARN decision so why to waste your time and energy and not to go to court right away?

I don’t know either. Guess I’m just frustrated. You should have been aswell. I guess it isn’t that simple. I make my statements out of the words from SGA, the Swedish law and what’s mentioned in their t&c. I can’t find anything that state this I particular.

This all just makes me very sad.

 

[Sajsan12]

I’m sorry guys. I just think you blame me for things I have no control over. You have to understand that it is a lot of money for me and that I didn’t do anything wrong and it ended up in a total mess. And if the regulation tells me different from what the casino does. Wouldn’t you try to at least get a reply from the casino to see what they say about the emails from the spelinspektionen?

 

[Slottery]

If i would be frustrated and 100% sure that i have legitimate claim, i would have started legal process right away after casino refused my claim.

Just a advise which you probably don't need as you are 100% sure that casino is doing wrong and illegally cofiscating your winnings. Everything in laws and regulations is not listed that every possible scenario is there but much bigger picture than "It's against law/regulation to use stolen credit card" for example. That's why judges and courts exist that there is case where two parties don't agree, they both have view what they think is right, both are allowed to give their statement, present all relevant evidences and point which parts and which law/regulation their action is following. Then it will be decided by judge/jury or who ever depending court and country have authority to make that judgment what is right and what is not.

Going through law books and regulations, it's not always that simple that some exact scenario is not mentioned there, it's right/wrong, as said, you can present your view and other side their and sometimes judgement can be surprising for other part who was sure that something is ok because it wasn't mentioned in a book, t&c or what so ever.

Just an advise, don't use your forum posts here or thepogg to present your side of story at all. I'm pretty sure that your chance to be right is better if these threads wouldn't exist at all.

 

[Sajsan12]

Thank you for that answer. I really thought I was in the right after going through everything. It is not that i don’t understand your point of view, I just wished that I would have been informed or at least that it was stated somewhere that this could turn out to be a problem. You know.

And like I said, it’s hard to understand what’s right when the casino says one thing, and the other parts something else.

I’m quite new to this and haven’t gambled for long so there is no possible way I could have known this when I thought I did everything to make sure things like this wouldn’t happen. I thought I was extremely careful.

I think some of you are extremely mean and accuse me for things that isn’t true. Please keep in mind that I always gambled for my own money and never did I ever try to get any deposits back...

 

[Slottery]

It's just no black and white with most of things what are leading to complaint and you have your point, no doubt on that but also casino have theirs. They have reviewed this and gave quite strong statement that they are happy to to go further with this if you wish and that's what going to happen.

You might be surprised how many things are justified by responsible gambling and that's what you two sides are arguing. Understand that it's lot of money and of course nice to get, there's still need someone to make that decision that casino have done something that wrong that you are entitled to that. As we know, many court cases go to voting and all judges don't have same opinion about same part of law or regulation.

One point also is that they are not taking your money but voiding your gameplay for reason they believe is valid one to be in line with responsible gambling and following their normal procedure. There's so far no reason to believe they wouldn't have returned your deposits if you wouldn't have been lucky and won.

 

[Sajsan12]

It's just no black and white with most of things what are leading to complaint and you have your point, no doubt on that but also casino have theirs. They have reviewed this and gave quite strong statement that they are happy to to go further with this if you wish and that's what going to happen.

You might be surprised how many things are justified by responsible gambling and that's what you two sides are arguing. Understand that it's lot of money and of course nice to get, there's still need someone to make that decision that casino have done something that wrong that you are entitled to that. As we know, many court cases go to voting and all judges don't have same opinion about same part of law or regulation.

One point also is that they are not taking your money but voiding your gameplay for reason they believe is valid one to be in line with responsible gambling and following their normal procedure. There's so far no reason to believe they wouldn't have returned your deposits if you wouldn't have been lucky and won.

I understand.

They haven’t returned all my deposits so I highly doubt that.

Like most of you I’ve lost and won. Lost maybe 50.000 SEK using this payment method. So what you say is that if my gf is se’d on other casinos or whatever they need to pay me back?
That I don’t understand. I gambled for my own money, lost my own money...

 

[Slottery]

Which is quite obvious because you have clearly stated that you are not accepting their decision, but are willing to claim official complaint against their ruling so as rep advised also here, they are waiting you to do so and then replying to it.

 

[Sajsan12]

May I please ask a mod to close this thread?

 

[L&L-Jan]

I'm not sure why to be honest?

Earlier I asked you that with the demand of full consent that I can explain everything. You started a complaint, and as a result I cant reply. If the complaint is resolved (which is not as it is still ongoing) and you provide full consent towards me - I can explain a bit more and let the community give their opinion about who is wrong here. But till date, I did not got a response to that statement.

Kr. Jan

 

[Sajsan12]

You have my full consent, as long as you don’t mention any personal information like my name or anything like that, thought i told you that in PM @L&L-Jan

 

[miksaxxx]

I'm not sure why to be honest?

Earlier I asked you that with the demand of full consent that I can explain everything. You started a complaint, and as a result I cant reply. If the complaint is resolved (which is not as it is still ongoing) and you provide full consent towards me - I can explain a bit more and let the community give their opinion about who is wrong here. But till date, I did not got a response to that statement.

Kr. Jan

If casino have solid proof that he is she ( gf ). Return deposit.

If not , pay winnings.

Any law dont say that casino is police.

 

[Harry_BKK]

A couple of points which make your story even more surreal and hard to believe.

- You requested the chat logs from "SOME OF THE OTHER CASINOS". That implies you have accounts with those "some" and a few more.
- In the other post, you say "I am quite new"
- So which is it? Many casino accounts aka experienced player or newbie? Can't be both! I might add, you sound very experienced and knowledgeable in what you are doing.

- So, you used your husband's/wife's card at "some of the other casinos"
- Hence, you must have completed that card authorization form quite a few times, right? And AS IF BY MIRACLE s/he never mentioned that s/he has an active SE with Spelpaus, NEVER?

- Of course, you never asked for "REFUNDS OF MY LOST DEPOSITS", simply because you were happy that you found a way to circumvent the system and still play. Addicts will do everything they can to stay under the radar. Asking for refunds would expose him/her.

I say it one more time, neither Casinos nor Spelpaus will ever say it is OK to make a deposit with a card of a player who has an active SE. It is just not feasible in the least to allow that as it will open the proverbial "Pandora's Box".

Taking all of the above, I'll stick for now to my verdict: You are actively circumventing the SE system and this is the first time you actually won big and wanted to withdraw. Too bad, the SE flagged up as it should. You tried to build an ironclad case for you by asking "innocently" and all that, just to prepare for such a moment.

As per your chat, you are talking about "CARDS", not a "CARD". Plus, again you never mentioned that she had an active SE. And I venture to say you knew about the SE because as per above, you did the same thing with "SOME OF THE OTHER CASINOS". No way, that the SE was never flagged up. If indeed it never did, then those casinos would be in for huge fines from the Spelinspektionen for not doing their due diligence.

 

[SpinUk]

Fine don’t pay him but where is the justification to keep his deposits if all deposits made would never legally be honoured through to withdrawal? Casino is legally and morally obliged to give those back, regardless of if he was trying his luck at being deceptive.

 

[thr0b]

Jan has said he’ll put his side across. So let’s see what the casino says. There could be a very good reason for not refunding deposits.

They may even have been refunded.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Fine don’t pay him but where is the justification to keep his deposits if all deposits made would never legally be honoured through to withdrawal? Casino is legally and morally obliged to give those back, regardless of if he was trying his luck at being deceptive.

AFAIK, Jan or L&L never stated that they would not return the deposits.

Plus, we do not know exactly what the Swedish regulations are proscribing for such cases. It might be different to the UK.

I remember the UKGC at the beginning had the position that no money should be returned as it would allow an addict to gamble elsewhere. IIRC, they recommended to donate it to a help organisation.

But yes, I would say too, refund the deposits unless the OP did this with a plan to circumvent the system.

 

[mack341]

Just looking up this ARN, luckily the website has an english option:

"Before the complaint is filed with ARN, the business operator must have rejected the complaint in part or in whole (or not answered at all). "

"ARN submits recommendations on how disputes should be resolved, for example that the business operator shall repair the product. ARN's recommendations are not binding, but the majority of companies follow them. "

"It usually takes about six months from the claim to a decision. ARN's inquiry is free of charge. "

[That's a long time to wait for a non-binding decision]

I feel Harry does make some valid points/observations above, but I wouldn't like to be the hanging judge in this one as it goes to 'intent'...if I was the op I'd file a complaint with this ARN service and see what they say.

I think I agree with Spinuk you can't void the wins and keep the deposits, that wouldn't be fair or logical.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Just looking up this ARN, luckily the website has an english option:

"Before the complaint is filed with ARN, the business operator must have rejected the complaint in part or in whole (or not answered at all). "

"ARN submits recommendations on how disputes should be resolved, for example that the business operator shall repair the product. ARN's recommendations are not binding, but the majority of companies follow them. "

"It usually takes about six months from the claim to a decision. ARN's inquiry is free of charge. "

[That's a long time to wait for a non-binding decision]

I feel Harry does make some valid points/observations above, but I wouldn't like to be the hanging judge in this one as it goes to 'intent'...if I was the op I'd file a complaint with this ARN service and see what they say.

I think I agree with Spinuk you can't void the wins and keep the deposits, that wouldn't be fair or logical.

Mack, I've done scams, hell, I was even part of a syndicate in a very distant past (all happened a long, long time ago).

And I can tell you that my gut is rarely wrong when I see something that looks like a scam/set-up. But, at the same time, I am happily proven wrong although until now I have not seen anything in that direction.

You don't just willy-nilly return deposits, e.g. in fraudulent cases. The fraudsters would have a laugh and share it immediately in their forums as a risk-free chance to gamble!

Guys, are you that naive to think that the gambling world is a "fluffy, innocent wonderland"?

 

[mack341]

Mack, I've done scams, hell, I was even part of a syndicate in a very distant past (all happened a long, long time ago).

And I can tell you that my gut is rarely wrong when I see something that looks like a scam/set-up. But, at the same time, I am happily proven wrong although until now I have not seen anything in that direction.

You don't just willy-nilly return deposits, e.g. in fraudulent cases. The fraudsters would have a laugh and share it immediately in their forums as a risk-free chance to gamble!

Guys, are you that naive to think that the gambling world is a "fluffy, innocent wonderland"?

With this fraud that goes on, it seems to me the most damaging financially to the casino is the bonus fraud, maybe the casinos should think hard about giving out large bonuses for just opening an account, and instead focus on customer loyalty perks etc..

Then the fraud perpetrated would be limited to people using stolen funds/bank cards which should be easier to stop with kyc and SOWs

Maybe the casino is waiting for a final outcome/action before returning the deposits, could be what this ARN might recommend, surprised the swedes haven't found a solution to this SE problem, I think a term added to the contract by all casinos, forbidding the use of joint cards would be a wise move and cut another area of dispute. It's not a good idea for one person to be able to gamble away jointly held money, when they can simply have their own separate bank account for this purpose.

Edit: It would be interesting to hear Tenur's legal analysis of this complaint

 

[L&L-Jan]

Hi guys,

So I’ll try to summarize the events related to this problems as short and simple as possible:

Customer joins Yeti Casino on the 14 of November. Started to deposit with a card belonging to another person. Customer starts the chat the next day asking to verify the account and upon receiving the email with the required documents customer informs us that he also is providing his partner’s documents because he used a card that is on her name.

That is also the moment the customer includes a chat log from HyperCasino – where customer is asking if it is allowed to use the card of a partner. Referring to the card belonging to a joint account. Personally I found it strange that you join YetiCasino, provide KYC documents and include a chat from HyperCasino from 2 weeks before. But that’s just my opinion.

While processing the provided documents the card used to deposit was ONLY on her name - no indication of a joint account. There we run in to the first problem.

As a result we request full KYC for the partner so that we know they share the same address. And the partner needs to sign a so called “credit card authorization” form. If this can't be completed, winnings will be void and deposits will be returned.

When we received all documents and handed over by support to our payments and fraud team, they started to investigate the partner because now we have all the details.

Upon searching the first name and last name of the partner we found many accounts that were closed due to “Gambling Addiction”. A lookup in our support system shows a chat from 15 September 2018 that starts as follows:

“Hi , I have multiple accounts within your group of sites, but the problem is that I have a really bad gambling addiction so I need to close my accounts. Can you help with that”.

Which we did, account closed and customer added to gambling addicted list.

So now we start to sum up events:

1) chat at Hyper Casino from customer containing questions if he has accounts under this licensee, if he was excluded with the licensee and if he is allowed to deposit with a partner card.

2) Joins YetiCasino 2 weeks later, no questions asked and starts to deposit with a partner card.

3) Provides KYC the next day + full KYC partner + Hyper chat.

4) Then I was asked to analyze the gameplay of both accounts and hereby I can confirm the gameplay looks very similar.

This was the moment we had to void the gameplay and return the deposits. We can not allow a card belonging to a person with a gambling addiction to be used on our sites.

It has been mentioned already but I’m pretty sure that if the player would not have won a request for a refund would have been submitted.

To protect ourselves we no longer allow Swedish players to use a partner card. Only cards and payment methods on your own name can be used.

Also customer claims we did not return the deposits, but I can only see that transaction as completed on our end.

Kr. Jan

 

[Slottery]

You started a complaint, and as a result I cant reply. If the complaint is resolved (which is not as it is still ongoing) and you provide full consent towards me - I can explain a bit more and let the community give their opinion about who is wrong here. But till date, I did not got a response to that statement.

Like Jan stated above. It's common practice that when there is ongoing complaint, casinos are not making any comments about issue anywhere, only replying to that complaint. Same will also go to any actions like if they are voiding gameplay and return deposits, that all would happen after complaint is fully resolved and outcome clear for all.

If you ever have been claiming complaints through ADR, regulator, ARN or what ever authority used for resolving these, casinos are not dealing with you anymore once process is ongoing and until there's outcome.

Jan mentioned there what i quoted that he have some further information what we don't have here which possibly can explain their decision even further (what ever their decision is).

In general, many probably have seen something bit weird in this case what doesn't sound 100% innocent from players part, way or another, ARN will give their opinion once they get players complaint but with information already shared in this thread, will find it very hard them to come conclusion that player should be paid his winnings (and casino seem to have more information where their decision is based and happily answering to ARN complaint).


EDIT: Ok, Jan provided some exact details and everything seem to be pretty much how many people gut feeling here have been told and probably most used abuse/fraud at the moment which was pointed out here as well. If OP was 100% innocent and all these happenings were only coincidence, then it's pitty that winnings will not be paid but voiding gameplay and return deposits have looked only correct action in this case since day one. Really wonder if ANR or any court or what ever instance is ruling this to OP:s favor.

Casino have taken their decision in a name of responsible gaming and other outcome (not to void gameplay) would be something in very other direction from protecting vulnerable players as then in future many self-excluded player who managed to circumvent system wouldn't get refunded as casinos could happily take and keep their deposits.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Hi guys,

So I’ll try to summarize the events related to this problems as short and simple as possible:

Customer joins Yeti Casino on the 14 of November. Started to deposit with a card belonging to another person. Customer starts the chat the next day asking to verify the account and upon receiving the email with the required documents customer informs us that he also is providing his partner’s documents because he used a card that is on her name.

That is also the moment the customer includes a chat log from HyperCasino – where customer is asking if it is allowed to use the card of a partner. Referring to the card belonging to a joint account. Personally I found it strange that you join YetiCasino, provide KYC documents and include a chat from HyperCasino from 2 weeks before. But that’s just my opinion.

While processing the provided documents the card used to deposit was ONLY on her name - no indication of a joint account. There we run in to the first problem.

As a result we request full KYC for the partner so that we know they share the same address. And the partner needs to sign a so called “credit card authorization” form. If this can't be completed, winnings will be void and deposits will be returned.

When we received all documents and handed over by support to our payments and fraud team, they started to investigate the partner because now we have all the details.

Upon searching the first name and last name of the partner we found many accounts that were closed due to “Gambling Addiction”. A lookup in our support system shows a chat from 15 September 2018 that starts as follows:

“Hi , I have multiple accounts within your group of sites, but the problem is that I have a really bad gambling addiction so I need to close my accounts. Can you help with that”.

Which we did, account closed and customer added to gambling addicted list.

So now we start to sum up events:

1) chat at Hyper Casino from customer containing questions if he has accounts under this licensee, if he was excluded with the licensee and if he is allowed to deposit with a partner card.

2) Joins YetiCasino 2 weeks later, no questions asked and starts to deposit with a partner card.

3) Provides KYC the next day + full KYC partner + Hyper chat.

4) Then I was asked to analyze the gameplay of both accounts and hereby I can confirm the gameplay looks very similar.

This was the moment we had to void the gameplay and return the deposits. We can not allow a card belonging to a person with a gambling addiction to be used on our sites.

It has been mentioned already but I’m pretty sure that if the player would not have won a request for a refund would have been submitted.

To protect ourselves we no longer allow Swedish players to use a partner card. Only cards and payment methods on your own name can be used.

Also customer claims we did not return the deposits, but I can only see that transaction as completed on our end.

Kr. Jan

Thanks Jan, you confirmed in essence what I said all along.

So in essence, since the gameplay is similar, the OP and the partner are the same person?!

The OP basically took the BankID credentials of her partner and opened an account in his name but had no access to one of his cards, so she tried to sneak her own card (joint account) into the stream.

Very cheeky to ask on Hyper 2 weeks in advance. Nicely planned with very few flaws.

Makes me wonder though how other casinos accepted it (as the OP indicated). Spelinspektionen would usually go ballistic when they hear of such cases.

EDIT: Might have him/her wrong, all confusing as to who is who.

 

[thr0b]

The only thing I’d say to Jan is that it is common for joint accounts (in the UK at least) to have only one name on a particular card. Not sure about Sweden.

On balance of what both parties have said though, it does look like the most appropriate outcome. There is significant doubt over who gambled and to be responsible they’ve voided and refunded. The player can still take it further, and I’m sure L&L will review if a formal decision is made contrary to their own.

My job is unrelated, but I’m used to He Said She Said arguments within it. And I wouldn’t accept selected responses from a third party as proof of me being wrong. I’d want everything.

 

[SpinUk]

AFAIK, Jan or L&L never stated that they would not return the deposits.

Plus, we do not know exactly what the Swedish regulations are proscribing for such cases. It might be different to the UK.

I remember the UKGC at the beginning had the position that no money should be returned as it would allow an addict to gamble elsewhere. IIRC, they recommended to donate it to a help organisation.

But yes, I would say too, refund the deposits unless the OP did this with a plan to circumvent the system.

I’ve definitely not seen this position, i’m doubtful as it would massively disincentive UKGC Casinos to have robust controls allowing previously self-excluded people to gamble. Can you - or anyone - direct me to where it was seen.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I’ve definitely not seen this position, i’m doubtful as it would massively disincentive UKGC Casinos to have robust controls allowing previously self-excluded people to gamble. Can you - or anyone - direct me to where it was seen.

It was in one version of the LCCP or maybe in one of the consultations. I remember reading the LCCP for the first time at the end of 2014 when I joined CM as I had some beef with 32RED when they introduced the pending periods. I read it a few more times since then as they made constant changes but I can't remember where exactly it was. They also recommended that operators should inform the player in question of the possibilities for seeking help.

The LCCP actually only said at the beginning that bets are to be voided. Nothing about what should happen with the deposit/s.

I'll do some digging, maybe I find it again.

 

[L&L-Jan]

I think it was more related to gamstop players no, trying to bypass the checks where gamstop advised operators not to refund. We did it, until the workshop we had with Gamstop and other operators where we got informed by other operators they never refund and basically gamstop was advising similar. I dont believe UKGC was involved but I could be wrong there.

 

[Slottery]

I think it was more related to gamstop players no, trying to bypass the checks where gamstop advised operators not to refund. We did it, until the workshop we had with Gamstop and other operators where we got informed by other operators they never refund and basically gamstop was advising similar. I dont believe UKGC was involved but I could be wrong there.

That at least has happened, many operators (guess most of them) are looking these pretty much case by case, others are making more refunds than others. Gamstop really are surprisingly much against refunds of deposits, maybe they target is to get people not to circumvent their system (which is proofed to be bit too easy at the moment) and try prevent people trying to freeroll casinos and claim their deposits back, more of these claims to get deposits refunded are these attempts than failures anywhere (and amount of these are quite big, there are quite active groups in internet sharing tricks what to try and exactly how, which then can be seen that operator can have several really identical cases ongoing at the time).

Like in these cases when there's 3rd party payment method used and owner is self-excluded, i'm not sure that there's any strict rule that operator would have to refund these deposits but many are doing it, especially for Swedish players who are depositing with Trustly and then provide their bank with deposit and confirm their self-exclusion to Spelpaus is 100%.

Unfortunately fraudulent behavior exist quite a lot and casinos do have to have own department to deal with these (telling something about volumes), most pitty thing that these exist is that many innocent people have to suffer and go through investigations and verifications which are annoying and time consuming but quite crucial if operator don't want to end up loose loads of money to fraudsters, if somebody manage "cheat" any casino, quite many people probably hear it right away and many others are ready to try.

Ps. Still can't say 100% that OP was doing what he/she is doing, huge coincidences can happen but with information now available, would for sure do exactly same than casino here and be very ready to reply to any complaint claimed. Hard to see someone would decide it to players favor (which of course always is possible, we see court and other judgements all the time what many don't agree).

 

[Borgie]

Has the OP vanished? He said he had not had deposits back didnt he?. Casino say otherwise and have proof. Would be interested to hear what he says.

 

[Roedgaard72]

May I please ask a mod to close this thread?

So you lied about not getting deposit back?

 

[colinsunderland]

May I please ask a mod to close this thread?

I wonder why you asked that, just before the casino side was posted.
Seems you missed quite a bit out of your story. Scammer.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I wonder why you asked that, just before the casino side was posted.
Seems you missed quite a bit out of your story. Scammer.

I actually feel for the OP. He/she has a serious gambling problem, so serious that he/she is minutely planning on how to circumvent the system that is supposed to protect him/her. That is a clear indicator of how advanced the addiction is. Just imagine the efforts he/she was going through to get a fix. Getting off such a path is mightily difficult.

I can also see how important that money would be for him/her as the debts are probably sky high and the withdrawal (although a good portion would have gone back) would have provided some relief, albeit temporarily only.

We can only hope that he/she will decide to face his/her demons and start doing something about it. Continuing on this path will only become more destructive and will likely end one day with much worse results.

 

[nutnut]

Person should be banned. They have tried to scam.l the casino and forum. Just having the excuse they have a addiction makes it all ok is massive piss take.

Take responsibility for your own actions.

 

[Slottery]

Getting deposits back (which is already remarkable amount for many) in this case is probably better for gambling addiction than getting winnings paid and be tempted to repeat same action.

Guess there's not much to add to this thread unless OP still have something to add.

 

[Sajsan12]

I have sent you a PM @Harry_BKK.

I never ever used a deposit bonus in my life. If I would have tried to cheat the system wouldn’t that be the first thing?

Nah, when you talk about correcting my words, if it was “cards” or A card, remember English isn’t my first language.

Like I mentioned in the PM. I would gladly provide you with a copy of my income and credit score that would show you that your claims is straight up lies.

Please be careful about what you say.

 

[colinsunderland]

I have sent you a PM @Harry_BKK.

I never ever used a deposit bonus in my life. If I would have tried to cheat the system wouldn’t that be the first thing?

Nah, when you talk about correcting my words, if it was “cards” or A card, remember English isn’t my first language.

Like I mentioned in the PM. I would gladly provide you with a copy of my income and credit score that would show you that your claims is straight up lies.

Please be careful about what you say.

Correcting your words isn't the issue.

You claimed you had contacted chat before using your partners card. Jan says you didn't, you contacted chat at Hyper then played at Yeti.
You said you hadn't had your deposits refunded, Jan says you have. Which is it?

 

[Sajsan12]

Hi guys,

So I’ll try to summarize the events related to this problems as short and simple as possible:

Customer joins Yeti Casino on the 14 of November. Started to deposit with a card belonging to another person. Customer starts the chat the next day asking to verify the account and upon receiving the email with the required documents customer informs us that he also is providing his partner’s documents because he used a card that is on her name.

That is also the moment the customer includes a chat log from HyperCasino – where customer is asking if it is allowed to use the card of a partner. Referring to the card belonging to a joint account. Personally I found it strange that you join YetiCasino, provide KYC documents and include a chat from HyperCasino from 2 weeks before. But that’s just my opinion.

While processing the provided documents the card used to deposit was ONLY on her name - no indication of a joint account. There we run in to the first problem.

As a result we request full KYC for the partner so that we know they share the same address. And the partner needs to sign a so called “credit card authorization” form. If this can't be completed, winnings will be void and deposits will be returned.

When we received all documents and handed over by support to our payments and fraud team, they started to investigate the partner because now we have all the details.

Upon searching the first name and last name of the partner we found many accounts that were closed due to “Gambling Addiction”. A lookup in our support system shows a chat from 15 September 2018 that starts as follows:

“Hi , I have multiple accounts within your group of sites, but the problem is that I have a really bad gambling addiction so I need to close my accounts. Can you help with that”.

Which we did, account closed and customer added to gambling addicted list.

So now we start to sum up events:

1) chat at Hyper Casino from customer containing questions if he has accounts under this licensee, if he was excluded with the licensee and if he is allowed to deposit with a partner card.

2) Joins YetiCasino 2 weeks later, no questions asked and starts to deposit with a partner card.

3) Provides KYC the next day + full KYC partner + Hyper chat.

4) Then I was asked to analyze the gameplay of both accounts and hereby I can confirm the gameplay looks very similar.

This was the moment we had to void the gameplay and return the deposits. We can not allow a card belonging to a person with a gambling addiction to be used on our sites.

It has been mentioned already but I’m pretty sure that if the player would not have won a request for a refund would have been submitted.

To protect ourselves we no longer allow Swedish players to use a partner card. Only cards and payment methods on your own name can be used.

Also customer claims we did not return the deposits, but I can only see that transaction as completed on our end.

Kr. Jan

First of all. The account is joint. I provided a bank statement with this information. The card is issued in my partners name.

I have requested, like I mentioned before, chat logs from other casinos where I used this payment method that I NEVER EVER asked for any deposits back.

The deposits is not returned. The casino returned 10200SEK.

I don’t know what you mean with “gameplay”.

My partner still state she never had a gambling problem, if she did that’s nothing I know anything about because that would have been before we started dating in that case.

This didn’t just end up in a total mess, it will more or less destroy my relationship aswell.

 

[Sajsan12]

Correcting your words isn't the issue.

You claimed you had contacted chat before using your partners card. Jan says you didn't, you contacted chat at Hyper then played at Yeti.
You said you hadn't had your deposits refunded, Jan says you have. Which is it?

They haven’t returned all my deposits, no.

 

[cncas2123]

They haven’t returned all my deposits, no.

What about the chat question? Did you have the chat as Jan says at Hyper then include that transcript when you contacted Yeti? If you asked about self exclusion and depositing with a partner card at Hyper, why not ask the same questions at Yeti? Hard to believe that you didnt know what you were doing and got a bit mixed up.....

 

[colinsunderland]

The deposits is not returned. The casino returned 10200SEK.

You should go back and check what you said in your first post

I made deposits for 10200Sek

So you made deposits of 10200Sek and got a refund of 10200Sek, how exactly didn't they return your deposits?

 

[colinsunderland]

Just in case the OP gets edited

 

[Sajsan12]

You should go back and check what you said in your first post

I made deposits for 10200Sek

So you made deposits of 10200Sek and got a refund of 10200Sek, how exactly didn't they return your deposits?

On this particular casino I made deposits of 10200SEk.

Other casino under the same license, more deposits with the same method.

 

[Sajsan12]

Just in case the OP gets edited

View attachment 119217

come on..........

 

[Sajsan12]

What about the chat question? Did you have the chat as Jan says at Hyper then include that transcript when you contacted Yeti? If you asked about self exclusion and depositing with a partner card at Hyper, why not ask the same questions at Yeti? Hard to believe that you didnt know what you were doing and got a bit mixed up.....

That wasn’t the case.
I thought, same license, same rules.

 

[cncas2123]

That wasn’t the case.
I thought, same license, same rules.

So you won the money at Hyper and made the withdrawal at Hyper?

 

[colinsunderland]

come on..........

Come on what? You have totally mislead people reading this, leaving out major information to make L&L look bad. You clearly stated the amount of deposits you made, you got them refunded. I might have missed it in the 12 pages, but which post did you tell us they refunded that amount, and which post have you told us about the other deposits?

 

[sufferinsilence]

So, now you want ALL deposits at L&L brand casino's returned? This topic is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Sajsan12]

So, now you want ALL deposits at L&L brand casino's returned? This topic is the gift that keeps on giving.

No, I never asked for any deposits back.

The casino told me by email 18/12 18:12 that

“4. When I reviewed your activity at our casino, you made a 9000 deposit into another account with the same payment method. These will be refunded to you.”

 

[colinsunderland]

No, I never asked for any deposits back.

The casino told me by email 18/12 18:12 that

“4. When I reviewed your activity at our casino, you made a 9000 deposit into another account with the same payment method. These will be refunded to you.”

so they are refunding the other deposits?

 

[Sajsan12]

so they are refunding the other deposits?

That’s translated directly from the email.

This aswell;

“Thank you for your mail and your documents. I would also like to ask you for a proof of address in the name of your partner, ie the person on the card. In the email there is an attached form that the person on the card also needs to fill out. I would also like to ask if you have any bank account in your name only?

Sincerely,
Emil Support Agent
Yeti Casino”

This was after I provided the casino with my partners Information (copy of credit card, ID)