- Joined
- Apr 17, 2010
- Location
- Turn around...
I'm impressed with your level headed and fair approach. Your comments above demonstrate a lot of class and patients. Job well done Max.
I ditto that!
I'm impressed with your level headed and fair approach. Your comments above demonstrate a lot of class and patients. Job well done Max.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it."
Benjamin Franklin...........(if memory serves correctly)
Wait wait wait...let's talk about the free service.I think that the owners of this site didn't make it for charity, cause if I join a casino using their links, they have something about my money.Isn't so? That's right.
But it's normal to ask for a little more work about this matter, just because interests many players who are CM members
Personally I thought Bencuri's post was pretty rational and well thought out. Whether I agree or disagree is beside the point. And Max in turn had a rational reply. Certainty wasn't any whining or ungratefulness going on. Just a posters opinion. I highly doubt their post offended most members here.
Nut Job....that is friggin laughable.
There are 2 members here who really should have their Thanks buttons permanently disabled. It is not right to thank posts that belittle other members.
As someone pointed out (Jod?) Bryan and I are pretty much away from the site today, as we are most weekends (meltdowns aside). We'll be back on Monday to respond, after digging up Bencuri's case details, etc.
Until then be cool, and ease up on the "I have to say this before I am banned stuff", if you please. No one is going to get banned for saying "hey, I don't think my case was handled properly". Shit happens, maybe I did screw up. Going through proper channels might have been nice but Bencuri seems serious about his complaint so no harm done, IMO.
Anyway, back to my weekend. Attach Removed (Old not found) Please keep this thread on "flame off" mode and we'll get to business on Monday.
Ooops, just remembered there is this happening Monday: Downtime Monday. So we'll pick up _after_ the maintenance stuff is done.
Renee knew that the fraud team was in contact with MB, and she knew they were also looking at the screen shot in the thread. They said "he changed his name" but this was referring to the screenshot - this was not the MB account that the player had originally tried to make a withdrawal to. (the fraud team's English isn't that good from what I gather)
So she interpreted this as Moneybookers confirming a name change - which in fact they didn't.
But regardless of this slip up, this guy was still trying to commit fraud.
What has happened is that this guy tried to withdraw to someone else's MB account, then posted screenshots of one of his moneybookers accounts trying to make the casino look like they are trying to rip him off.
Its threads like this that demonstrate the need for online gaming licensors to finally get with the program like land based casinos, and take control of all these issues with regulations and regulator enforcers. They could clean up the entire online gaming community once and for all.
On another note I’ll be departing within an hour to the regulated Bogata in Atlantic City for a poker tournament and some regulated gaming entertainment. I’m also certain I won’t be complaining about the free room, free food, free beverages, free entertainment, and certainly wouldn’t have any grounds to complain about my gaming outcome.
Bencuri, are you truly looking for Bryan to ban you? For what purpose would that serve? The time you have been here doesn't seem as if you have too much positive input to add. The majority of your threads are so negative, all the casinos are out to cheat you. Especially the ones you frequently use ND bonuses at...
Pamper casino - https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casinorewards-restricted-my-rewards-account.34485/
Casino Rewards (Rialto) - https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/bencuri-vs-rilato-casino.35108/
TopGame (CasinoStates) - https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...ame-nightmare-casino-states-doesnt-pay.35402/
Just to name a few...
You have post after post complaining about how you only play at this casino and that casino using bonuses, never jeopardizing your own funds. This is what the casinos consider bonus abuse. They want you to use your own money without a bonus on occassion. It's the free money vs. your own money ratio which determines how the casino will set up your promotions.
Concerning the QuatroCasino thread...
Did you miss this part???
Regardless, to kind of sum up in MY peabrain...
-You are upset the PAB didn't work out in your favor and are holding a grudge against Bryan and maxd because you feel you have been slighted.
-You used the Quatro thread as an agenda to try to bias members against CasinoMeister and what it stands for.
-You are looking to get banned so you can justify your antagonistic behavior and proclaim yourself a martyr.
I hope when Monday afternoon rolls around and Bryan and maxd can clear the dust from this, that you will finally be satisfied. At least give them the benefit of the weekend to get things in order (at least as maxd has stated he will do), before condemning them further...
Bryan wont fall for it and ban the op. There was a certain degree of disrespect but no inappropriate behavior or flaming. There was just too many details in the thread the op was referring to and I would rather spend my time gaming away. From my many years at this forum I have found Bryan to be a very fair person. If he has seen evidence that a player is a fraudster he/she usually is and I dont doubt the integrity of the meister. One must remember he is obliged to keep what was secretly divulged to him confidential otherwise he wont be trusted anymore. We dont know the poster momchildxxx whatever his handle so although the info presented to us may seem solid I believe in Bryan's judgment in branding that person a fraudster. This forum was not built in a day and it needs superb juggling skills to gain recognition from both players and casinos alike. The online gambling is a much better place with a site like this.
Casinomeister's Philosophy and Mission Statement
Established in 1998, Casinomeister has never wavered from its initial mission:
"Trust is what it's all about. Our mission at Casinomeister is to provide solid information; information that enables players to make smart choices. Since trust is spawned by information, the more players know about online casinos, the more at ease and safer they will be."
Since these words were first published, Casinomeister has proven to be instrumental in bringing trust, credence, and a level playing ground for the online gaming community. In an industry that still remains to be relatively unregulated, Casinomeister has shown that information empowers the player community in order to make wise decisions when it comes to online gaming.
The bottom line for most people in this industry is to make a profit. Unfortunately when failure or scandal occurs, it's usually the result of a profit driven philosophy. Many profit driven businesses are typically ethically challenged - especially in the online casino business.
Casinomeister is a informational driven business. Casinomeister's community, information, and services proceed any marketing and profit making ventures. We are not motivated by money.
This industry does not exist because of money, software, or good management or marketing skills - it exists because of the player, and casinos should never forget that.
There are several needs of a player (obviously, these are not exhaustive) which casinos should always consider when developing any aspect of their business model or introducing any promotions.
Safety: The players need to know that their private information is private. The casino software is solid and trustworthy.
Dependability: Players need to know that the casino operation will be responsive and react positively to any issues. Players need to be assured that the casino operation will be there tomorrow.
Honesty: The casino needs to be up front and fair when it comes to terms and conditions. It should not use deception to attract players.
Communicative: The casino must not be set up in a black hole. They need to responsive to players' comments, questions and problems.
Fairness: The games are fair, promotions are fair, terms and conditions are clear, and when there are problems - the outcome is fair.
These needs should be addressed by the casino in one form or another with every aspect of its operation.
Trust is what holds this industry together. If you don't have trust, you don't have anything worth dealing with. Since the online casino industry is still unregulated for the most part, players will remain cautious, cynical, pessimistic and accusatory. It is up to the casino to do battle against this negativity. The way to do this is to be upfront, honest, humble, and when you make a mistake - admit it. Admitting our mistakes humanizes us, and people relate to people this way. This is a people business.
Dealing with players:
Bonuses
If the casino makes an offer of a bonus, and the player accepts it, the casino is obligated to go through with the offer. If the player accepts this offer, the player is obliged to follow the posted terms and conditions of the bonus. If the player meets the wagering requirements, he should be paid. Simple as that.
Advantage Players
Advantage players are players who use bonuses and other legal ways in order to gain a mathematical advantage while gambling. Some casinos label these players "bonus abusers" which is a misnomer. Players can't be considered an "abuser" if the bonus has been legitimately offered to them. If casinos don't want bonus "abusers" then they should not offer these individuals bonuses. If a casino feels that a player is taking advantage of their "generosity" - pay the player and then stop offering bonuses.
Advantage play should not be confused with fraudulent play. Fraudulent play is opening multiple accounts with false or misleading information, collusion, making false claims (photoshopped screenshots of bogus wins), knowingly charging back losses, and other forms of cheating behaviour. Online casinos should not tolerate such activities.
Bot use
There has been a lot of controversy over the use of robots (bots), or computer programs that assist the player's game play. Some casinos disallow bot use - which is their prerogative. But those operators that ban bots are either naive, unschooled in casino math, or are just inexperienced. Bots will not change the game's math, nor will they foresee random numbers or predict the future. Bots only speed game play, and if the odds are in the house's favor (which in most cases they are), bots will only allow the player to lose money at a faster rate.
From Michael Shackleford - Wizard of Odds:
If I ran a casino I would fully allow bot use. If I offered a bonus or game that could be beat by a bot, then that would be my own damn fault for not protecting myself against advantage play.
Betting Systems
Betting systems are like bots, they cannot affect the math of the game. To believe otherwise is to believe in pseudoscience, snake-oil, and magic fairy dust. Reference material:
Wizard of Odds Betting systems are all equally worthless
Eliot Jacobson Ph.D. Betting Systems and the House Edge
"Spirit of the Bonus"
No such animal. If the casino offers a bonus, the casino should not assume on what grounds the bonus should be accepted. If the player wants to just play and watch the reels spin or is playing to make a profit, it is not up to the casino to enforce subjective terms like "spirit".
The Role of Affiliates:
Affiliates
Affiliates need to understand their importance and relevance when it comes to player safety and trust. Unfortunately, many don't have a clue, and they end up stumbling down a path towards the dark side. The best affiliates are the ones who are players themselves and who play at casinos known for their player focused approach. These affiliates support those casinos that subscribe to Casinomeister-like player philosophies; they would personally recommend these casinos and assist players if and when they have issues. To be an affiliate and not be a player is like being a restaurant owner who doesn't taste his own food, or a shoemaker who goes around barefoot. These people are lost puppies - they don't have a clue about what they are doing. And honestly, these lost puppies are usually the catalyst for problems:
Problem Affiliates:
Spammers
Content thieves
Black Hat SEO dweebs
Rogue pushers
The list is not exhaustive, but this covers most of the negativity that plague the online casino industry. In most cases, the webmaster is the one who introduces the global community to online casinos. There are many casinos that should not even be in business - and unfortunately the reason why these businesses linger stems from unethical or uncaring webmasters.
Webmasters who practice unethical advertising or steal others content are showcased in the Evil Webmaster section of the Rogue Pit. The casinos they promote are listed there as well and made aware of their evil webmaster. In most cases, the affiliate programs close the affiliate's account - and this is what makes this section a powerful tool to keep misguided affiliates on the right path.
Rogue Casinos
The Variances of "Rogue"
The term Rogue Casino was coined by Bryan Bailey in the fall of 2000 when it was applied to Golden Palace concerning the flagrant removal of winnings from players they simply didn't want to pay. This was "rogue" behaviour and the term was pulled from King Lear...when Kent replies to Edmund's question: "Do you know who I am?" Kent says yes, and describes what he knows of Edmund:
"A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, super-serviceable finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd, in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pandar, and the son and heir of a mongrel bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition.
I thought it was fitting.
But there are as many levels and forms of rogue behaviour as there are terms to dish out, but the two most important categories at Casinomeister are the following:
Rogue Casino
Not Recommended Casino
And the of course there are other categories as well:
Bumbling Blunders and other screwups
Evil Software
Evil Webmasters
How does one join the Rogues?
It's easy. Just exhibit rogue behaviour and you're on a fast track to rogue town. Normally it stems from complaints in our forum, or complaints submitted via the "Pitch a Bitch" section. I rarely go looking for rogues, they usually come to me via a player issue. If a casino is "rogued" or placed in the not recommended section, communications are left open in case the casino operator wants to dig himself out. Redemption is always an option.
How does one get out of the pit?
It depends on the situation. Sometimes it's a matter of changing one's terms and conditions, or switching software providers, or something that is clear and explicit. If it's a situation of unethical behavior, then that's not so simple. My experience with dealing with rogue behaviour has illustrated that a leopard doesn't change it's spots. When a casino has an ethically challenged management or business approach, then this is something that rarely changes. Ethics are the foundations of a business; if there is something rotten in the cellar, the whole building stinks. These companies usually find themselves permanent residents of the pit.
I find it very sad that you are more interested in describing me as an abuser, not discovering that I cannot be titled that even because of rules, not even because the Mission Statement of this forum. Morover you so this without knowing my casino history. Besides I sign up for free chips that is not described as not allowed anywhere, I am a frequent depositor, and in sessions a looser too (sometimes also winner). In this special case at CasinoRewards I deposited an equal amount to the amount I got in bonuses. So I don't find it rightful that you call me an abuser.
Secondly, the casinos you picked are very rougelike. Others can confirm this to you. My review on them, too. So it is not a good example, if you search the net you can see my posts about these cases, and you can see I was rightful complaining about them. And the fact I mostly post complaints is that this place is meant for that too. There are 'Casino Complaints' sections here. So why is it a problem for you, that I make complaints. Check my history anyway and you can see I contributed to lots of non-complaint related things as well.
And please stop describing me as an abuser. I am also a frequent depositor, I deposited an wagered much money at CR, too. The rules at CR clearly shows I am not an abuser, and, the most important, the meister mission, too:
'Advantage Players
Advantage players are players who use bonuses and other legal ways in order to gain a mathematical advantage while gambling. Some casinos label these players "bonus abusers" which is a misnomer. Players can't be considered an "abuser" if the bonus has been legitimately offered to them. If casinos don't want bonus "abusers" then they should not offer these individuals bonuses. If a casino feels that a player is taking advantage of their "generosity" - pay the player and then stop offering bonuses.
Advantage play should not be confused with fraudulent play. Fraudulent play is opening multiple accounts with false or misleading information, collusion, making false claims (photoshopped screenshots of bogus wins), knowingly charging back losses, and other forms of cheating behaviour. Online casinos should not tolerate such activities.'
And actually your reply is what justifes my claim about that this forum is unserious on certain levels. There is a mission statement here, yet you want me feel myself as an abuser, when even the mission describes it is a misnormer.
Guys please. Let us now stop this evaluation of Momchildobrew. I said from the quatro case it was the attitude towards casino rewards that ignited this post, so let us stick to that side of the story. I don't say I don't dare to discuss the debate whether the guy if fraudster or not, but I didn't open this thread for that purpose. There are a lot of serious things here already without that guy, too.
First you use it as an example, and then you say that we shouldn't discuss it.
It's common for players who don't get a PAB result going their way to feel hard done by as - obviously - the majority think they are in the right. That's the nature of the beast.
...im sorry for those players who, like me wanted to have some HONEST fun through internet....( with casinos ) and then feel the STRONG PAIN of SCAM ROAD....
Im ready like bencuri to be banned from this forum, agree with him and going around, because here i dont think players are treated with honestly....here players are just a VICTIM.....