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Complaint about Casinomeister

Discussion in 'Forum Suggestions, Announcements, & Feedback' started by Bencuri, Aug 6, 2011.

Thread Status:
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    Aug 6, 2011
  1. Bencuri

    Bencuri Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Hungary
    Maybe I won't have a long history after this here, but what would be the use anyway, when mostly I become disappointed again again while chasing for the experience of the spirit of the 'Mesiter Mission'.

    From the moment of my first activity here, I found the 'Meister's Mission' is not real, at least not on the level that I belong to as a player. It is disappointing, considering that before I signed up here I thought: 'finally I found a place that is really for the protection of players'. And sadly, on and on, I face this disappointment again and again. The last thing that finally made me to write this was this complaint about Quatro casino, so if you had a suspicion about what initiated this thread, you were right. But before you would think of anything false: I don't want to continue the debate here whether a person is a fraudster or not, instead, I would like to make a notice of something different that also appeared in that particular thread, just as it had already happened before several times, and I don't think it corresponds to the 'Meister's Mission':

    So let me start this at the begginning:

    I started my activity here to make a PAB on Casino Rewards. I deposited at Lucky Emperor in faith of that I will receive 100 Euro bonus that is a big money for me. The Live Chat operator confirmed minutes before my deposit that I am eligible for the bonus. Yet, after I deposited I didn't receive the bonus. I played with my deposit however I lost it, so the casino had profit on my deposit. Later it revealed the bonus went to my comp points account (or reward points account as called in that casino). As that reward account is locked for me, I cannot use that bonus money.

    The disappointment happened when I initiated a PAB, and MAX reported to me that in the end he supports the casino side, because accoarding to the rules I am a bonus abuser, that's why my bonus is locked.

    Now, why do I think this is not in correspondance to the Meister's Mission? Simply because I am not an abuser. Firstly, it is not a usual practice online that a bonus is credited to a comp balance. Secondly, up to that point, even when my reward account was locked, I received deposit bonuses, so why should I had to worry about that I won't receive the 100 when the Live Chat confirmed it, too. Thirdly, why should I stay away from the group and not deposit because of a locked reward account? Why should I think they will cheat because of that? I don't think based on my experience that you should worry if you are restricted on comps. Moreover the support was always helpful at CR, so why should I have stayed away from depositing? I had no reason. The support was okay, my reward account was locked, but why worry about that when the whole reward system is operating on a different page? Why should I have thought that this separate page has any connection with your Casino balance. Yet, in spite of all this MAX took the casino's side, and he explained this with a rule that is in the terms at Lucky Emperor, that says I can be excluded from promos because of bonus abuse:

    'In the event that Lucky Emperor Casino deems a Player to have misused a casino account for the exploitation of promotional offers, without ever demonstrating any degree of risk with personal funds or serious intention to play, the redemption of all such promotional offers, including but not limited to sign-up bonuses, will be suspended until such times as the Player demonstrates a playing history whereby a risk of personal funds is periodically demonstrated at the Casino.'

    This conclusion of MAX is problematic in already 2 aspects. Firstly, how could MAX cathegorize my case as 'excluded from promos' when the bonus was credited? Not to the Casino account, but to the Reward account, okay, but the fact is true that it was credited somewhere. So the case is not about that I was denied a bonus because I am an abuser. I was denied the ability of redeeming points, but there was no notice about deposit bonus ban from the casino in form of a letter informing me, or anything similar. And here comes the second thing that makes the whole case interesting: the terms at Lucky Emperor also say that the first deposit bonus is credited to the CASINO account, and not the reward account (just as in every previous cases, that happened at the same time my reward account was on lock). So? Can you see why MAX's conclusion is problematic? He supports the casino because of a rule on bonus abuse, but he excludes the rule that says the first deposit goes to the casino account. I deposited in this faith, that's why I didn't worry about that my money can get stuck in the reward account. And all this after the confirmation of the Live Chat operator, who said I will receive the bonus. I asked the casino operator, he was viewing my casino balance, and made his confirmation that way, so if there was a bonus ban on my casino account, too, and not only on my rewards account, he could see it. You can say, okay, he didn't see my rewards, account, and that's why he was not correct. But we are talking about the casino account here that he was looking at, the rules are talking about crediting to the casino account, yet the operator didn't report any problem about the casino account minutes before my deposit. Yet MAX blames me because of abuse, but he doesn't blame the casino because of violating their own rule. Moreover he also excluded their own mission statement. The 'Meister's Mission' includes:

    'Advantage players are players who use bonuses and other legal ways in order to gain a mathematical advantage while gambling. Some casinos label these players "bonus abusers" which is a misnomer. Players can't be considered an "abuser" if the bonus has been legitimately offered to them. If casinos don't want bonus "abusers" then they should not offer these individuals bonuses. If a casino feels that a player is taking advantage of their "generosity" - pay the player and then stop offering bonuses.'

    All the bonuses I received at Casino Rewards was offered and credited to my balances (rewards or casino balances) by the Casino, and every redemption was in correspondance with the terms. There are no rules about the use of no deposit chips either, ones like appear in RTG terms, that say you cannot use them in consequence. There is not a line in the terms about how you should use bonuses, but it is written that you will be titled as an abuser if the casino thinks you didn't use the bonuses in the siprit of the bonus. This is unfair.

    And notice this in the 'abuse' rule, too: 'without ever demonstrating any degree of risk with personal funds or serious intention to play'. I fulfilled the opposite of the rule, because I deposited and played from the very beginning, so I cannot be deemed abuser by this rule. This rule says: 'any', I fulfilled the 'any' degree of playing. It doesn't say: little, much, it says any. Yet Max wrote a summary about my PAB that is still accessible in the PAB history, that says:

    'Player reported that they were an active player at the casino, didn't like that they had been bonus banned. Player had a history of hooving up bonuses but depositing very little. Closed.'

    Closed, however the rule required 'any', and not much. On the base of little this rule doesn't refer to me. And read it again:

    'without ever demonstrating any degree of risk with personal funds or serious intention to play'

    I cannot be deemed an abuser on the lack of serious intention to play. The rule is faulty here, because if you make it a requirement to prove serious intention to play, you cannnot be satisfied with 'any' degree of play, only 'much'. Moreover it says 'OR', this 'or' this, not this 'AND' this. If you fullfil one part, it is enough, and you cannot be deemed abuser. But as you see, the second part of the rule is an error if it appears along with the first part, so there is no need to go that deep in it.

    So to summarize: the casino deemed me abuser, when I was not accoarding to the rule, Max approved the Casino's decision, and presented a PAB summary that was faulity and not even corresponding their own mssion statement, and didn't either care about that the Live Chat lied and that the casino violated their own rule abut bonus crediting. Thumbs up for you, MAX! :thumbsup::(

    So with these things considered, even my firsts steps here at Casinomeister was disappointment, and this didn't improve during the years. I experienced that there are cases when there is a rule in the terms of a casino, the players don't read the terms, or forget them, and then they loose money because of violation of the terms. Then the Meister balmes the casino, on the base of being unethical. I say: it is okay, there are ethics, and there are rules or practices that can be unethical, and I like the idea to emphasize it and protect the players based on this. But when we arrive to cases when a rule is written in the terms, the player acts accoarding to that, and the player turns out to be cheated, interestingly the Meister supports the casino's side. Excuse me, but I am unable to discover the siprit of the 'Meister's Mission' in this.

    And the same thing happened it the Quatro case. The player was deemed fraudster, he was banned, the rep who said untrue things could stay and was washed clear immediately. No problem that the group she represents behaves the way I presented, and is one of the biggest spammers and scamers in the industry. Don't misunderstand me, I don't want to discuss here if that guy is a fraudster or not, I want to show how unfairly the 'Meister's Mission' prevails in varios cases.

    So as a consequence of the disappointing experiences, I thought it is time to post this 'feedback'. In summary: I am disappointed by particular practices here, and I don't think that the 'Meister's Mission' always prevails on every level. Maybe you say: well we cannot deal with peanuts. Okay, peanuts for you, but peanuts are still big things for some. A slice of bread is 'life' for a man who is starving, but just garbage for a rich man. And even if we are dealing with peanuts, the attitude should remain the same in how we are dealing with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
    4 people like this.
  2. Aug 6, 2011
  3. Cleveland

    Cleveland Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Professional problem solver
    Location:
    Texas
    You should take this up with Max instead of posting here. Probably would go a lot smoother if you open another dialogue with him and explain what you went into great detail here.

    On a side note: Since you did post here it seems your complaint boils down to a I'm right because of x reason. Well lets assume you are, I doubt Max would intentionally screw you just for the hell of it. So in the case that you are right and he was wrong in his decision one could only conclude that we as people make mistakes. Your accusations in your post or misguided. It's hard for anyone in a position of authority to always choose the correct answer.

    What I'm trying to say is, if you feel you were wrong by Max I'm guessing it was probably a mistake and not intentional. Therefor you should take your case up with him, instead of here. Lets start with the premise that those in charge of casino meister are truly here to help. Based on the information given to them they thought you were in the wrong. You now won't them to change their findings based on the fact that you feel you are right. Every player who truly is out to defraud a casino could use your arguments. What should they do then, just side with the player because he argues his point passionately and says he is innocent? So the best recourse would be to email Max and repetition. Bring up all your points and fight your case. But I would be slow in losing faith in their system and then posting here.
     
    5 people like this.
  4. Aug 6, 2011
  5. Bencuri

    Bencuri Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Hungary
    On what base do you want to suggest I am an abuser? The casino defines the abusers by rule, if there is no rule, no abuser. The rule clearly defines what an abuser is, I don't fall into that cathegory. So please, stop suggesting I am abuser. Accoarding to the terms of the casino, I am not an abuser. I deposited nearly an equal amount to the amount I received in bonuses. Do you think this is the behavior of an abuser? I am not an abuser, neither by behavior, nor accoarding to the rules, nor accoarding to the Meister's Mission. That's all. If you suggest I am an abuser, it is a slander.

    When MAX closed the PAB, I gave him response, he didn't reply.

    When the similar things happened with other players, I tried to direct the attention of the Meister to this case, and there were the case of others along with it at the same time, yet: indifference.

    And don't you find it interesting that MAX knows the Mission Statement, yet, he defines me an abuser, when this definition is opposition the the Mission Statement. That is more than an unwanted mistake, it is more than a honest mistake.

    And why is it a problem for you that I brought this up here. It was MAX who stopped sending e-mails, then only indifference in similar cases through the years, what could I do if I don't find it rightful? I write this feedback. I think I had the base for a feedback, and in this forum there is a place for a feedback. So why is it a problem for you, then? I had the feeling that 'Meister's Mission' doesn't prevail every time, not even in the points that are described in it, so I make a feedback about that I find it interesting that the staff here deems me abuser, when it is even also the 'Meister's Mission' accoarding to that I cannot be. I think it is more than enough for a feedback.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
    2 people like this.
  6. Aug 6, 2011
  7. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Bencuri

    It's a very long time since I've seen a member be so inappropriate and ungrateful.

    Your experience with casino.rewards is the same as many others here, and everyone except you has voted with their feet and moved on.....they aren't going to change for you or anyone else.

    I'm truly disgusted with the way you have somehow turned things around to make it Casinomeister's fault. What a nerve. You took advantage of a FREE service and you lost.....just like everyone else in your situation. Instead of accepting this and moving on, you wait for another complaint to surface about the group and turn your guns on Max and Bryan. It's obvious from your statements that you support the fraudster purely out of spite, and you have dragged it on and on and now you have posted a frivolous and pointless rant instead of dealing with it privately. Of course, you did this deliberately for effect.

    Personally, I hope your membership is terminated as you obviously don't respect the site and its staff and you refuse to listen to any advice or information you are given.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
    2 people like this.
  8. Aug 6, 2011
  9. Temperance Fox

    Temperance Fox Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    many
    Location:
    Nowhere
    For sure, everybody who wins there is an abuser. A friend of mine won in a CR casino about 2000 euros and they treated her like abuser dening sign up to the others casinos of this Group and she cannot use her comp points. She wrote ecogra for help, but they gave reason to the casino.Not clear this behaviour of ecogra.

    I tried Zodiac first , they gave me the sign up, played 150 , won 1500. I've been cut off like abuser, too.I cut off CR group, but I still have their promo mails
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Aug 6, 2011
  11. jod5413

    jod5413 Is That Better?

    Occupation:
    having a good time doing anything
    Location:
    somewhere on the planet
    First of all, your timing really sucks. This is officially the "weekend", when the workers that keep this forum going are wanting to take a couple days off.

    Second, bitching and whining interspersed with outright nasty innuendos makes this post completely offensive to most of your fellow members here, I am sure.

    Right or wrong, no one makes their case through belligerence and verbal stabs at whoever they are trying to get to help them.

    And last of all, you are acting like a spoiled child and no one takes a spoiled child with any sense of seriousness.

    If ever there was a chance that Bryan and Max wanted to help you, this nastiness you have shown could seriously negate any resolution of your problem.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. Aug 6, 2011
  13. Temperance Fox

    Temperance Fox Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    many
    Location:
    Nowhere

    Wait wait wait...let's talk about the free service.I think that the owners of this site didn't make it for charity, cause if I join a casino using their links, they have something about my money.Isn't so? That's right.
    But it's normal to ask for a little more work about this matter, just because interests many players who are CM members

    Sorry, but that's my opinion
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Aug 6, 2011
  15. Bencuri

    Bencuri Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Hungary
    I am 100% sure I will be banned, because I presented the truth here with facts, facts and truth about that this site and it's staff doesn't even follow it's own mission, and such mistakes are disturbing the staff. So be sure I will get banned.

    Anyway, you are wrong. If MAX keeps e-mails, he can search for the last e-mail I sent to him and to that he didn't reply, in that I told him I am not disappointed because of the unsuccesfullness of the case, but because of that it is astonishing that he is supporting the casino's side, and the finds the abuser rule as a good reason for it. This act is not in correspondance with the Meister's mission, so this act was astonishing. I thought he is doing something that is not correct, and since when is it a sin to express your feelings if you find something is not correct? As far as I know you can defend yourself if you find you were treated unrightfully, and in this case all the charges against me were unrightful. And MAX, by accepting the casino's point, agreed on these charges. And in this case, I find it rightful to defend myself. He had the chance to reply to my last e-mail, he didn't do, didn't change his opinion, an opinion that I think is incorrect. Let's say these 2 years that passed was time I gave for the case to turn out to be unfair. It almost happened, because there are other cases appeared like mine, yet the same indifference from the Meister. Well, indifference alone is not a problem, but not in case they join the group that has unrightful charges against me. I feel in such a case, I am rightful in case I make a summary. Don't try to present this post as purely a case complaint. It revealed that there are peoblems around the Meister's mission, so I think I am correct if I feel this case has reached the 'feedback suitable' cathegory.

    And just a poetical question: Why should I regret I will get banned from a place that doesn't even respect it's own mission?
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Aug 6, 2011
  17. jod5413

    jod5413 Is That Better?

    Occupation:
    having a good time doing anything
    Location:
    somewhere on the planet
    I think you might be mistaken, Fox. I believe that Casinomeister sells advertising, different from an affiliate that makes money by clicks to the casino through his website.

    If I am wrong, I am sure someone will shortly correct me. Even if I am wrong, how can you defend the actions and language of this complaining member? If he was my kid, he would be grounded for 6 months, and been put on bread and water until he apologized.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Aug 6, 2011
  19. jod5413

    jod5413 Is That Better?

    Occupation:
    having a good time doing anything
    Location:
    somewhere on the planet
    Ben, it is not the fact that you complained, it is the way you have chosen to complain. Your language and attitude screams "nut job", in my opinion.

    You get farther in life if you choose to be respectful with people you are dealing with. Whether you agree or not, people will think better of a polite and rational post than a wandering, vicious, and obnoxious post.

    Again, my 2 cents.
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Aug 6, 2011
  21. Bencuri

    Bencuri Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Hungary
    Please direct me attention to the lines or passages where I behaved in a nasty way. I will apologize if I told lies or nasty words.

    So you think I am unserious, when I compiled al this feedback wile trying to sticking to understandability, logic, facts and proofs. I have proofs of all this I presented. They are already posted in various threads of this forum. Yet, you call me an unserious crying child? Well, who fulfills the level of seriousness for you, then? Who stays silent when there are problems?
     
  22. Aug 6, 2011
  23. Bencuri

    Bencuri Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Hungary
    Where is it in the rules that I cannot start a thread in the weekend? A complaint in the weekend. Man, I haven't ever thought of the aspect of opening a thread you raised here. I am just aware about one rule: Truth is truth, no matter when you present it. I follow this rule.
     
  24. Aug 6, 2011
  25. Bencuri

    Bencuri Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Hungary
    Fox, please, let us leave that issue of the money now. I am sure that even if I survive with my statements, for this the whole thread will be banned right away. The problems I wrote about are already enough. If we discuss that money issue here now as well, that can be slanderous without any proper introduction, and it will direct the attention away from the problems I noted. You see instead of replying to the particular notices I did, this debate is already in the direction to become a slander against me being an abuser, somebody who is not serious. Let us not direct the attention away from the initial thought. It will just make a mess. There is already enough coal on the fire here.
     
  26. Aug 6, 2011
  27. jod5413

    jod5413 Is That Better?

    Occupation:
    having a good time doing anything
    Location:
    somewhere on the planet
    I never said you could not post a thread on the weekend. I said it was a bit rotten to cast your aspersions when the weekend was here, since Bryan and Max both deserve their weekend time off. As opposed to coming here to sort out the trash that is piling up.

    Carry on.
     
  28. Aug 6, 2011
  29. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Why are you still a member here then?

    Just delete your membership. You said you don't want to be a part of it, so leave.

    Of course, doing so wouldn't get as much attention would it? Much better to go out as a martyr to the cause.

    @temperancefox - you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Sorry. PABs are not confined to CM advertisers, so your theory is shot down right there.

    I'm just astonished at how goddamn ungrateful some people are.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Aug 6, 2011
  31. Bencuri

    Bencuri Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Hungary
    Why am I a member here? Indeed, why am I? You are right I shouldn't be.

    BUT!!!

    Can I have an opinion of how some cases are dealt with here? Or how my own PAB was dealt with? I think the rule doesn't say I don't. So why I am still here is for expressing my opinion on these. Not for chatting about payout of slots, or roulette systems, as you see.
     
  32. Aug 6, 2011
  33. Cleveland

    Cleveland Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Professional problem solver
    Location:
    Texas
    Ben you seemed to have missed the point of the replies to your thread. Nobody is saying you're wrong. We are saying that you should contact Max and if you have then continue to contact him. Did it ever occur to you that he was busy and therefor didn't respond to your last email?

    Also you're pretty much saying that casino meister as a whole sided with the casino for some sort of kick back, or benefit from the casino. Am I reading your post wrong? What "proof" have you to support this, besides the fact that you lost?

    If they sided with the casino then they probably had just cause or what they felt was just cause. You disagreeing doesn't make them liars. And if you think they are then why the hell are you a member of the site? And to the fact, how much money did you give Max to look into your case? Exactly none, therefor it is a free service for you.
     
    2 people like this.
  34. Aug 6, 2011
  35. Cleveland

    Cleveland Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Professional problem solver
    Location:
    Texas
    Can I have an opinion about your opinion? [​IMG]
     
  36. Aug 6, 2011
  37. Bencuri

    Bencuri Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Hungary
    Well. I am sorry if I did it wrong, but I didn't feel the importance of contacting him again. On my side this non-response purely seemed as indifference. Especially after all the facts and proofs I presented to him. There are several facts on my side, yet he makes a decision in favour of the casino, and then stops replying. What conclusion should I have drwan from this? I don't think I was wrong if I interpreted it as ignorance. Morover later when similar cases appeared by others, and I jumped in, there was the same indifference from him, and also from the Meister. So why sending more e-mails, then?

    Please show me where I wrote in the starting thread that Casinomesiter gets benefit from the Casino for teaming up with them? Nowhere. What I was telling about the deeds of the staff here is what happened. You can interpret is as you wish. If I say they supported the casino's side in the PAB, it simply means they did that. MAX agreed on deeming me an abuser, and he based this on that abuser rule. So in the debate he stood on the Casino side, he supported their view. That's all. I didn't write more than this. I didn't write I suspect he received tip from the casino for this, etc. I am sorry if that has such a taste, but anything I wrote was what has happened. These are only events. That's all.

    I don't know why he supported the casino, but one thing is true, and you cannot deny it. Their conclusion is not in correspondance even to the Meister's Mission. Apart form the fact that without this this whole conclusion is already unfair, with this strange aspect added, it is very much like that. I came here in the belief that the Meister's Mission prevails here. I experienced that not, at least not on my level. And I made a feedback. Not because I wanted to reflect that MAX teamed up with the casino for money, but because it is odd that Meister has a mission, and it is already the staff who doesn't care about it. I expressed this to MAX in my final letter, too. Maybe not with the same words, but I expressed him that what he did is not what could be expected from such a site.

    Since when is it a rule that in case you get or participate in free things, thouse shouldn't be taken seriously? I take free things seriously too, if someone finds it a problem, then let him make the free thing paid. Or when you receive something for free, that doesn't have the same value for you as a paid thing? A gift is unserious for you? When I do something for free to others, I take it seriously, if the case requires that. Where is it written in the PAB section that: 'It is free, but we are not serious about it?' Nowehere. Until then I think it is not a sin to expect Meister is doing this seriously.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  38. Aug 6, 2011
  39. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    Your response screams "nut job", in my opinion.

    Casino Rewards has always acted this way. They always will. Threads like this serve to dissuade new customers from patronizing them. This is a good thing, in my opinion.
     
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