Complaint about Casino Action

johnico

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Casino Name : Casino Action Player No *snip*

Within a month (March) I played on the above mentioned Casino a large sum of money.

I tried several games but mostly played a poker game called Level - up. After a few games, on March the 10th, the game would stall on 3rd or 4th level and close on an error.....i did not pay attention at the beginning until the game stalled on a couple of good hands (on the 4X scale) and a MAJOR one on the 8X scale (A Royal Flush).

I informed the Desk and they answered me that "... they know the issue and they have reported to the Technical Department..." (All the emails are available).

When I claimed the winnings they told me that I had to print-screen the error in terms of reporting it to the software provider who would be finally responsible for the final answer. After I told them that I did not have a print screen of the error they informed me that there was nothing they could do.

As you realize the issue for me was very important and I decided to play again (on the 31st of March) see if the errors would appear again !! I was lucky enough to reproduce them and I had all the print-screens sent to them. Again that costed me except the amount I played, another good sum for losing good hands.

From the 31/3/2011 that I reported the errors since today I have the same answer to all my emails " ....we have no answer from the software provider so far ....we are waiting ....and ....blablabla ..."

I have concluded that they are not willing to pay or reimburse !!!!

I would be much obliged if you could help me out in finding a solution …

Thank you in advance
 
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vinylweatherman

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Try looking at Playcheck - detailed view, for these sessions. This should show what the server recorded as the outcome of these games, and will also contain hard evidence of any wrong doing by the software.

If Microgaming are aware of the issue, they would have pulled the game, just as they did with a number of AWP games in December 2009, and the Chief's Fortune slot in 2006.

If this game has NOT been removed, they are not really taking the issue seriously, and are more or less accusing you of faking it. They clearly don't think action to prevent other players from suffering loss from this error is important whilst they investigate.

This would be a Microgaming issue, rather than an operator one.

It should also be possible to check for this error in "fun mode" at no cost in order to gather further data.

It could be specific to only one of the level-up games, or even to a particular local set-up.

Most MGS software errors are merely display errors, and the software can crash if the display calls for a player action that is not actually available as far as the game state on the server is concerned.
 

johnico

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Location
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Casino Acton

Vinylweatherman thank you for your comment ...

I did not know about Playcheck ...I will see to it although I do not Know how ...I ll search !! but then why Customer Service asked screenshots of the error from me before they would start searching the issue ??? If the proof was there they could answer that they would check and let me know of what really happened !! I would not be surprised if these sessions were ...missing !!

One thing that really made me worry is that Customer Service accepted the problem and I have the email that proves it !!! That means that the game should be withdrawn long time before I had the ...luck of playing !!
That explains the reason also why they started feeding me with bonuses ...which I did not request ...all I wanted was to prove I was right !!! I regenerated the error a few times more with MY money....I played over 18,000 euro within a month !

Tell you the truth, at the beggining I did not pay much attention ... then I noticed that the program would halt whenever I had a winning hand ....and it never stalled on the 1X or 2X scale ....it would always stall on the 4X and 8X !!!

Another funny thing I noticed was that everytime the error appeared, I would not be able to see the outcome for more than 1 or 2 secs and then it would drive me directly to the main menu with an error (511). And then you had to click on "OK" on the error as many times as the number of lines missiing for the game to finish.....that is as if you were actually playing but you could not see anything !!! so the error would appear again and again until resetting the counter !!!

The problem was not only in Level Up Deuces Wild .....it appeared on all the Level Up games...I played them all !!! Never appeared on any other game ! I understand that MGS would have taken action if they knew ...but is it possible that the operator knew and MGS did not ???? one of the terms mentioned in the Agreement is that when the operator has issues or complaints from players they must immediately report them to the software provider !! so what has really happened ?? They could also give me direct info on error 511 ....Is it a secret ?? All the errors have their specific explanation !! what 511 means ??? never had an answer !!

Anyways ...I am glad that at least there is response to my complaint even if it is not directed by the operator of the provider ... they do not pay much attention and that made me angry !!

see what happens next !!!

Thanks for your help !!!!
 

vinylweatherman

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Vinylweatherman thank you for your comment ...

I did not know about Playcheck ...I will see to it although I do not Know how ...I ll search !! but then why Customer Service asked screenshots of the error from me before they would start searching the issue ??? If the proof was there they could answer that they would check and let me know of what really happened !! I would not be surprised if these sessions were ...missing !!

One thing that really made me worry is that Customer Service accepted the problem and I have the email that proves it !!! That means that the game should be withdrawn long time before I had the ...luck of playing !!
That explains the reason also why they started feeding me with bonuses ...which I did not request ...all I wanted was to prove I was right !!! I regenerated the error a few times more with MY money....I played over 18,000 euro within a month !

Tell you the truth, at the beggining I did not pay much attention ... then I noticed that the program would halt whenever I had a winning hand ....and it never stalled on the 1X or 2X scale ....it would always stall on the 4X and 8X !!!

Another funny thing I noticed was that everytime the error appeared, I would not be able to see the outcome for more than 1 or 2 secs and then it would drive me directly to the main menu with an error (511). And then you had to click on "OK" on the error as many times as the number of lines missiing for the game to finish.....that is as if you were actually playing but you could not see anything !!! so the error would appear again and again until resetting the counter !!!

The problem was not only in Level Up Deuces Wild .....it appeared on all the Level Up games...I played them all !!! Never appeared on any other game ! I understand that MGS would have taken action if they knew ...but is it possible that the operator knew and MGS did not ???? one of the terms mentioned in the Agreement is that when the operator has issues or complaints from players they must immediately report them to the software provider !! so what has really happened ?? They could also give me direct info on error 511 ....Is it a secret ?? All the errors have their specific explanation !! what 511 means ??? never had an answer !!

Anyways ...I am glad that at least there is response to my complaint even if it is not directed by the operator of the provider ... they do not pay much attention and that made me angry !!

see what happens next !!!

Thanks for your help !!!!

This seems to be a problem with the underlying Level-Up game engine, rather than a specific game. I have seen a few REALLY odd lobby errors in my time, but very few are related to the game itself, most are display errors.

If you were charged for the bet that caused the error, you should be able to find the outcome in Playcheck. There is a detailed view, and even a reconstruction graphical representation of the end game outcome.

I have Casino Action installed at present, but it does not support fun mode on the same account as others do, so you would have to ask support to set you up with a fun account.

However, if this is a software error, it should be possible to reproduce it with any lobby.

If you could post any screenshots you have here, it might throw some more light on the problem.
 

johnico

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Dear Vinylweatherman,

Here is the link where you can find a couple of screenshots of the error ....

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Please let me know if you have troulbe reading them !!!

I looked for the winning hand in Playcheck but was not there ....

Then I got suspicious and I trailed down the session for which I had screenshots for !!! All three that is Error Stall.png when the error froze the screen after a Straight Flush on X2 scale(!!!!!), Actual Error.png when the program halted and brought me to the main menu, and Error After.png that is right after the error when I returned to the game after abort !!! I uploaded all 3 shots so you can see them.

Now I went to Playcheck and printed out the report and the details of the Transaction no. 41564 just to verify that we are talking about the same one I had the screenshots for (see files).

Now, the weird thing is that the timestamps from the errors prove that I was out of the game for over 2 MINUTES (upper right corner) !!! Playcheck shows that the next transaction that is no. 41565 occured after 7 SECONDS !!!! and the next after 3 seconds !!!! You realize that all this time program had aborted and I was waiting for the game to resume !!!! So much for Playcheck ..... Any explanation on that ???

I understand that the records could be manipulated ....same that happened with my Royal Flush ...it was a lot of money on the 8X scale...

Awaiting for your help ...

John
 

vinylweatherman

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Location
United Kingdom
Dear Vinylweatherman,

Here is the link where you can find a couple of screenshots of the error ....

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Please let me know if you have troulbe reading them !!!

I looked for the winning hand in Playcheck but was not there ....

Then I got suspicious and I trailed down the session for which I had screenshots for !!! All three that is Error Stall.png when the error froze the screen after a Straight Flush on X2 scale(!!!!!), Actual Error.png when the program halted and brought me to the main menu, and Error After.png that is right after the error when I returned to the game after abort !!! I uploaded all 3 shots so you can see them.

Now I went to Playcheck and printed out the report and the details of the Transaction no. 41564 just to verify that we are talking about the same one I had the screenshots for (see files).

Now, the weird thing is that the timestamps from the errors prove that I was out of the game for over 2 MINUTES (upper right corner) !!! Playcheck shows that the next transaction that is no. 41565 occured after 7 SECONDS !!!! and the next after 3 seconds !!!! You realize that all this time program had aborted and I was waiting for the game to resume !!!! So much for Playcheck ..... Any explanation on that ???

I understand that the records could be manipulated ....same that happened with my Royal Flush ...it was a lot of money on the 8X scale...

Awaiting for your help ...

John

The link only goes to a login screen, no pictures.

I ran level-up Deuces Wild at another MGS casino that supports "fun mode" as standard, and all was fine, no sign of any error, nor even of the game struggling.

One possibilty is that the error is triggered when you get the "free ride" awarded, and this may crash your client when attempting to display it. I noted that the game pauses for a bit, and runs an additional routine to display the award of a "free ride" with a bit of a fanfare. It looks like the graphics for this are more "challenging" than for normal gameplay, and could have triggered an error in your client, or even your video card.

Check you have the latest drivers for your video/graphics card.

This is also Microgaming, and maybe enough errors have crept in through many updates to make it worth taking the ultimate clean up measure I did last week. Uninstall all MGS casinos, delete all MGS and Microgaming keys from the registry, and delete the 10Gigabyte MGS cache on you hard drive. Then reinstall one MGS casino, and let it intall completely, and without interruption. This could take AGES, and will download the full 10Gig from the internet. If you are on a limited plan, this could be a serious dent in your allowance.

After I did this last week, a number of irritating errors seem to have gone away.
 

johnico

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PABnononaccred
Joined
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Location
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Images

Expired Image
Expired Image
error-after.png

record-of-30-3.png

transact-41564.png




I hope this works ....

Could you please tell me which Casino has Fun mode so I can try too ???

What do you think about the timestamping that I mentioned ???

I do not think that Free Ride has anything to do with the problem since in the sessions that I had the problems Free Ride was not triggered !!

Check if you can see the images and pls get back to me !

Thank you
 

vinylweatherman

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Location
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I can tell you that you have suffered loss from this bug.

The hand above seems to have been played out for you, but the server has held cards 2-5, when this could not POSSIBLY lead to a win. This reduced your chances of getting a winning hand, as the correct strategy would have been to discard all 5 cards.

Does this only happen when you get a straight flush in the second row?

It looks like this goes beyond a simple display bug in the client, and is an actual game bug at the server end.

Microgaming will be very determined to hush this up, as they did in 2006 with the Chief's Fortune bug.

Most likely, a quiet fix, no feedback, a settlement without admitting liabilty - probably a free chip, and the problem will go away next time you get a lobby update.

I used Red Flush for my tests, and played this same game, but was not able to trigger this bug. However, I was not specifically looking for a straight flush on the second row as shown here, and may not have achieved this in testing.

Testing for real in Casino Action may be the next step - when they offer me another bonus;)
 

johnico

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Well no ....it does NOT have to be a straight flush on the second row ...

What really surprised me was the fact that each time game would halt, it was after a GOOD winnning hand !! Coincidence ....I do not believe in coincidences.....

What do you think about the timestamping and the difference between the screenshots and Playcheck ???
 
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vinylweatherman

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Well no ....it does NOT have to be a straight flush on the second row ...

What really surprised me was the fact that each time game would halt, it was after a GOOD winnning hand !! Coincidence ....I do not believe in coincidences.....

What do you think about the timestamping and the difference between the screenshots and Playcheck ???


The screenshot only shows the error code, not the game.
Playcheck shows the timestamp, game number, and end result.

Playcheck timestamps are based on server time, which is bound to be different to local time. The lobby clock shown simply takes the time from your local machine clock, and does NOT show server/playcheck time.

You got the error in row 2, but Playcheck shows what happened to the other two hands, and it is the third hand that is worrying, as it seems it should have been offered to you, but rather than being held over till you were able to reconnect to the casino, it was thrown away, depriving you of the chance to play it. This is what should NOT have happened. The software should have saved the state, and when you logged back in you should have had a part completed game, with the third row dealt and you having to select cards to hold for the draw.
 

johnico

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That is exactly what I am saying ....everytime I had a winning hand on the second row, the game halted and when I got back the game was gone (at least 20 times within a 5 hour play) !!!

As I told you, the game hang but while in the the main menu I had to click at least twice (as many games were left in the session) until the game was finally aborted !!! Was as the game kept playing ....behind scenes !!

But even timestamping is still worrying me ....I understand the difference in local system and server time (as indeed shows with 3 minutes diff in that particulat transaction)....but still ...the next session had to be at least 2 minutes after the game was hang ...I am takling about relative time !! otherwise local time and server time would have no relation between them what so ever and I think that Playcheck could not have offered correct monitoring of the game !!!
 

vinylweatherman

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That is exactly what I am saying ....everytime I had a winning hand on the second row, the game halted and when I got back the game was gone (at least 20 times within a 5 hour play) !!!

As I told you, the game hang but while in the the main menu I had to click at least twice (as many games were left in the session) until the game was finally aborted !!! Was as the game kept playing ....behind scenes !!

But even timestamping is still worrying me ....I understand the difference in local system and server time (as indeed shows with 3 minutes diff in that particulat transaction)....but still ...the next session had to be at least 2 minutes after the game was hang ...I am takling about relative time !! otherwise local time and server time would have no relation between them what so ever and I think that Playcheck could not have offered correct monitoring of the game !!!

I am not really following this. Unless I can recreate this error myself, and see what is happening on my screen step by step, I am only going on my experience of this software, and other bugs I have encountered.

If this is a server error, any player should be able to recreate the same error, but on my attempts I was not able to get any error despite winning on the second row a number of times.
 

johnico

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Well, I have played long hours on Level Up ...It seems that does not appear under a specific pattern ....In order to regenerate it I played for over 4-5 hours !! But then, within an hour it gave me at least 5-6 errors !! here is another one at the same night !

anotherone.png
 

johnico

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Well you were right !!!

here is answer that I got late at night !

"Thanks again for your patience.
I received notice that the game has been removed from the casinos until the fix is pushed out towards the end of the month.
I've also been asked to direct any further enquiries regarding this issue to your VIP host, Gael, as he will be able to help with the rest.
Cheers"

You see, no matter how much testing you do, there is always a possibility for a bug ...

Any suggestions ??
 

vinylweatherman

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Location
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Well you were right !!!

here is answer that I got late at night !

"Thanks again for your patience.
I received notice that the game has been removed from the casinos until the fix is pushed out towards the end of the month.
I've also been asked to direct any further enquiries regarding this issue to your VIP host, Gael, as he will be able to help with the rest.
Cheers"

You see, no matter how much testing you do, there is always a possibility for a bug ...

Any suggestions ??

All very well, but a game that erred in favour of the casino was allowed to remain active for all this time, yet the mere HINT that a came errs in favour of the player is a case of "remove it now, and ask questions/investigate later".

At least this is a rare occasion where Microgaming have actually admitted "on the record" that this error existed, and were denied the chance to do what they would have probably preferred - a quiet fix later in the month with players none the wiser.

This establishes the principle that MGS can no longer claim "a game error cost you money - impossible, they are all thoroughly tested before release".

Now Microgaming - fix the REST of the annoying errors that have been around for ages, but denied by MGS. The tournament server lag for example:mad:
 

johnico

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What can I say ....the game was removed ONLY from the specific Casino ...It still exists and is offered in all other casinos serviced by MGS ...

I wonder ..Was that done deliberately ??? Is there any possibility that it was the Casinos fault ??? Can not explain it !!

Still havent heard of them about the money ....waiting for the verdict !!

Ioannis
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
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Location
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@johnico: I have received your PAB and will email you shortly regarding it. In the meantime I strongly suggest you read our Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ, especially the section regarding forum posts (
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
).
 

funeral979

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Although I can no longer play MG software, I too experienced similar errors when playing the level up video poker games.

I loved level up, so I did play many thousands of hands...and I can say with 100% certainty that I got the same type of errors the OP did. It was always after a winning hand....but I cannot say for certain what levels it happened on. I had to exit the game and reload it, and indeed the hand was finished and played out for me. I cannot say for sure if I ever suffered a loss though, as I do remember on occasions that it would finish hands where I won on all levels. With that in mind I never thought much of it and just assumed it was some sort of odd bug.

This happened at Rich Reels and Villento on the Level 11 version.
 

johnico

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Location
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PAB

Dear Maxd,

I had already read the paragraph concerning forum posts and PAB.

At the beginning I thought that PAB would be too ...harsh ...too coerse ! I believed that would have ended up with a solution ....That is why I posted in the forum !

On the other hand I have consumed all possible alternatives. I have gone private, contacted Casino Affiliate, wrote emails ...10nths of them but I had no real response...

Please advise !
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
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Location
Saltirelandia
Please advise !

My advice is simple: Don't post anymore (on this subject) here at Casinomeister until the PAB has run it's course. That could be days or weeks or even longer if things get complicated. Usually it's a few weeks.
 

johnico

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PABnononaccred
Joined
May 5, 2011
Location
Greece
PAB

Hello MaxD,

A few hours ago, Queenie, VIP manager at the Casino (not Gael) sent me an email with the results of the audit !!

Is there an address where I can forward it ??? you have other means of acquiring it ??

Thanks
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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Location
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Is there an address where I can forward it ??? you have other means of acquiring it ??

You can always email me at Attach Removed (Old not found)

As it happens though I have seen the email you are referring to. I'll be in touch with you (via email) shortly.
 

johnico

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Location
Greece
You were right

All very well, but a game that erred in favour of the casino was allowed to remain active for all this time, yet the mere HINT that a came errs in favour of the player is a case of "remove it now, and ask questions/investigate later".

At least this is a rare occasion where Microgaming have actually admitted "on the record" that this error existed, and were denied the chance to do what they would have probably preferred - a quiet fix later in the month with players none the wiser.

This establishes the principle that MGS can no longer claim "a game error cost you money - impossible, they are all thoroughly tested before release".

Now Microgaming - fix the REST of the annoying errors that have been around for ages, but denied by MGS. The tournament server lag for example:mad:


Well, it seems that Microgaming might fix the error ....what do I get ??? a loss of a few thousand euro plus the winning pot of a Royal Flush...they did not bother at all ...not even an explanation !!

I thought of it and I decided to see into the issue legally. I assigned the case to my attorney who is now seeking the details of it ...Malta based ...It will cost a few euro more but it will worth it !
 

vinylweatherman

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Joined
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Location
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Well, it seems that Microgaming might fix the error ....what do I get ??? a loss of a few thousand euro plus the winning pot of a Royal Flush...they did not bother at all ...not even an explanation !!

I thought of it and I decided to see into the issue legally. I assigned the case to my attorney who is now seeking the details of it ...Malta based ...It will cost a few euro more but it will worth it !

If you have the play logs, you should be able to work out what the error has cost you. This would have to be done on the assumption that had you not been thrown out of the game by these errors, you would have played each hand with "perfect strategy".

I find it odd that a game that does NOT have "expert mode" is able to "play out" the remaining hands, rather than do what all other MGS games do in this situation - restore the game at the point you left it, so that you can complete it.

Casino software is supposed to "fail safe" in error conditions, and protect the player from loss. This is a BIG mistake from Microgaming where a game not only has errors, but compounds them by causing the player to have money in play summarily "confiscated" by the server, rather than them being able to finish off the game next time they log in.

I find it odd that the game was ONLY removed from this one casino, rather than MGS as a whole.

The lack of a proper explanation for all of this only serves to make matters worse. This should be something that the licensing body, and if a sealholder, eCogra, should be taking a look at. Software is expeted to be robust enough to effectively deal with any errors encountered, and be designed to protect players' funds in the event of such an error.

Such odd errors also fuel the conspiracy theories that outcomes are "rigged" rather than random, else how could the game know the outcome where a further player input is needed, but not received. It makes it look like the player input makes no difference to the outcome, such as is the case in "pick" bonus rounds, and the double-up gamble feature (which I have also noticed will give a result even though the game has "crashed", and the player unable to make their pick).
 
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