CM Exclusive - IKIBU A Casino Journey

[rafelito]

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Hi

It's Amour not Armour - Love not War


Ok Rafelito, please forgive me for being pedantic but have a couple of queries.

Can I assume that bonus abuse by any other transaction is very rare if at all? Why would using Neteller as oppose to another means allow someone to abuse bonuses? :Angel: Really have no idea.


Surely there is a way round it - how has every other casino I play at managed. couldn't the Casino foot the bill for the deposit fees?Then customer makes their withdrawal so they pay a fee and casino gets their money back?​

No problem, I am here for this!

In terms of e-Wallets being more prone to bonus abuse,it is due to these systems making it easier to pool funds, to make ultimate owners of the accounts more opaque as well as not going through big lengths in terms of due diligence on the origins of funds. Therefore it is easier for abusers to have various accounts on Neteller for multi-accounting, than actually getting credit cards for those different accounts. Hope this sheds a bit more light on this, as I am aware that in many cases Casinos talk a lot about bonus abuse and multi-accounting, but never give much of an explanation on what this exactly is.

In terms of the fees, actually we are charging less to players than we are charged ourselves, I still understand that as a player that is rather off putting. As we have a whitelable agreement these fees can't really be reduced, so we find ourselves in a position where we have to charge these fees. We are definitely working on improving this and should hopefully be able to decrease fees in the near future.

Hope this helped clarify a bit more

 

[ozimatt78]

well done

Congratulations on your accreditation status never in doubt

 

[vinylweatherman]

No problem, I am here for this!

In terms of e-Wallets being more prone to bonus abuse,it is due to these systems making it easier to pool funds, to make ultimate owners of the accounts more opaque as well as not going through big lengths in terms of due diligence on the origins of funds. Therefore it is easier for abusers to have various accounts on Neteller for multi-accounting, than actually getting credit cards for those different accounts. Hope this sheds a bit more light on this, as I am aware that in many cases Casinos talk a lot about bonus abuse and multi-accounting, but never give much of an explanation on what this exactly is.

In terms of the fees, actually we are charging less to players than we are charged ourselves, I still understand that as a player that is rather off putting. As we have a whitelable agreement these fees can't really be reduced, so we find ourselves in a position where we have to charge these fees. We are definitely working on improving this and should hopefully be able to decrease fees in the near future.

Hope this helped clarify a bit more

Interesting point about Neteller. Users are not supposed to have more than one account, and from my experience with Neteller their KYC is more onerous than at my bank!! They wanted my documents AGAIN, then they wanted to know what I used my Neteller account for, and even where the money in it came from. Maybe this only applies to the UK authorised Neteller subsidiary, rather than the main Neteller service itself.

As for opaque ownership of funds, this is an even BIGGER issue with vouchers, like Paysafe (UKash as it once was), yet casinos that worry about Neteller don't seem to worry about Paysafe.

Outside of Neteller, whilst credit and debit cards issued by banks have plenty of due diligence (the banks have to eat the fraud costs), prepay cards can simply be picked up in-store and loaded at the till, rather like Paysafe vouchers.

The main issue for players is that using cards causes all sorts of bother, some have reported being turned down for a loan or mortgage simply because they have used their cards at a casino. Another issue is "trigger happy" blocking of casino deposits by the bank's automated systems.

Some players are getting REALLY fed up with casinos and Neteller refusing to come together and thrash out a solution to these issues so that players can once again use a bespoke service designed specifically for gambling transactions.

Neteller seems to have more to lose because if casinos are pushing players into using cards, Neteller is going to be losing revenue. This could present an opportunity for a new gambling specific eWallet provider to step in, one that will listen to the concerns of casinos and ensure that their service cannot be misused by fraudsters.

 

[rafelito]

Interesting point about Neteller. Users are not supposed to have more than one account, and from my experience with Neteller their KYC is more onerous than at my bank!! They wanted my documents AGAIN, then they wanted to know what I used my Neteller account for, and even where the money in it came from. Maybe this only applies to the UK authorised Neteller subsidiary, rather than the main Neteller service itself.

As for opaque ownership of funds, this is an even BIGGER issue with vouchers, like Paysafe (UKash as it once was), yet casinos that worry about Neteller don't seem to worry about Paysafe.

Outside of Neteller, whilst credit and debit cards issued by banks have plenty of due diligence (the banks have to eat the fraud costs), prepay cards can simply be picked up in-store and loaded at the till, rather like Paysafe vouchers.

The main issue for players is that using cards causes all sorts of bother, some have reported being turned down for a loan or mortgage simply because they have used their cards at a casino. Another issue is "trigger happy" blocking of casino deposits by the bank's automated systems.

Some players are getting REALLY fed up with casinos and Neteller refusing to come together and thrash out a solution to these issues so that players can once again use a bespoke service designed specifically for gambling transactions.

Neteller seems to have more to lose because if casinos are pushing players into using cards, Neteller is going to be losing revenue. This could present an opportunity for a new gambling specific eWallet provider to step in, one that will listen to the concerns of casinos and ensure that their service cannot be misused by fraudsters.

I totally agree, as this is something very inconvenient for Players, but also for casinos as we are getting a reduced number of deposits through those methods. Therefore it would really make sense making verification stricter with those methods, or creating a new e-wallet that makes sure that kind of fraud does not happen.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I totally agree, as this is something very inconvenient for Players, but also for casinos as we are getting a reduced number of deposits through those methods. Therefore it would really make sense making verification stricter with those methods, or creating a new e-wallet that makes sure that kind of fraud does not happen.

Neteller don't seem to care, customers also find this attitude. Something will have to MAKE them care, such as losing players who switch to other methods to avoid the anti-Neteller attitude from casinos. If the banks didn't cause so much hassle when cards are used, even more players might switch to cards. Neteller actually began as a solution for the USA, where banks were actively blocking gambling transactions done via cards and casinos struggled to get deposits through.

Neteller also took over Skrill, so they have a near monopoly on gambling eWallets. Others like PayPal decided to stay out of the gambling market, although PayPal DOES now work for UK players and UK licenced casinos because it's a properly regulated "white" market, and so PayPal will accept this.

All the problems casinos have faced with Neteller are also possible with cards, it's just easier with Neteller. If anything, casinos could be even more vulnerable if card fraud really takes off because the banks will pull back the money once the customer reports the fraud, and the bank is satisfied that it's own interests are best served by accepting the customer's version of events. The habit of some banks of sending pre filled card application forms, some of which end up at old addresses, is one way fraudsters find it easier to get a card in another name, and it's also a fraud that only gets discovered many months later when the card is maxed out and the fraudster bails, leaving the bank to take debt recovery action and actually bother to do an address trace and find that the customer they thought they were dealing with had actually moved some while before.

 

[nikantw]

I totally agree, as this is something very inconvenient for Players, but also for casinos as we are getting a reduced number of deposits through those methods. Therefore it would really make sense making verification stricter with those methods, or creating a new e-wallet that makes sure that kind of fraud does not happen.

Maybe you had a point before. Not anymore. Neteller had better verification process than many casinos and now it has even better than any casino I know. A few months back had to submit all new docs and photos of my ID and myself through my pc webcam!

You can’t get more proof of ownership anywhere else.

So no more multiple accounts problem, if there was ever any.
The other problem, money pooling, doesn’t really exists. Because 1st of all most of the funding options are for limited countries. What is open for most is strictly checked. Funding my own Neteller account is difficult enough. 2nd and most important, it is a lot easier and safe for a group of people to just give the money to the player than try to fund the players e-wallet directly.

So there is no real fraud problem today with Neteller.
It is true that countries have put pressure to processors to strict and limit access and usage of e-wallets, but has very little to do with fraud or money laundering IMHO.

 

[xxshepxx]

Rafeltio

I decided to stay with you guys and closed my CH account as their service is appaling.

I went onto live chat and asked to speak to yourself regarding a bonus for exsisting members. They had no clue what i was talking about
Referred me to the normal welcome bonus which i claimed long ago. Then said to come back next wednesday where i can get 1500 seeds for a deposit lol.

 

[rafelito]

Rafeltio

I decided to stay with you guys and closed my CH account as their service is appaling.

I went onto live chat and asked to speak to yourself regarding a bonus for exsisting members. They had no clue what i was talking about
Referred me to the normal welcome bonus which i claimed long ago. Then said to come back next wednesday where i can get 1500 seeds for a deposit lol.

Hey xxshepxx,

Just PM'd you and sorry for that

 

[illu88]

Rafeltio

I decided to stay with you guys and closed my CH account as their service is appaling.

I went onto live chat and asked to speak to yourself regarding a bonus for exsisting members. They had no clue what i was talking about
Referred me to the normal welcome bonus which i claimed long ago. Then said to come back next wednesday where i can get 1500 seeds for a deposit lol.

Same to me...

 

[rafelito]

Same to me...

Sorry about that, if you would like to PM me, I may look further into it

 

[illu88]

Sorry about that, if you would like to PM me, I may look further into it

done