clogs VS the casinos (rigged rtp, etc)

[clogs]

Just gave back $300 but the rest of the profit I bought gift cards so I can't give it back, but also saved $550 to buy a quest 3

 

[neilw]

This is a pointless thread - I lose, and I win.

 

[dunover]

This is a pointless thread - I lose, and I win.

Perhaps he doesn't get the fact that those Novomatic 5,10 & 20-liners are extremely volatile with low win frequency and RTP weighted towards the premium results rather than those on the 0-10x range.

 

[The Reel Story]

So after 4 or 5 threads of 'It's rigged, it always does the same thing', suddenly you're 3k up and just won another 1k+?

Is.... is it still rigged?

 

[slot_zombie]

So after 4 or 5 threads of 'It's rigged, it always does the same thing', suddenly you're 3k up and just won another 1k+?

Is.... is it still rigged?

The "shinning crown" is confirmed rigged, other fruit slots may be rigged occasionally if the OP is losing. At other times they are fully random.

 

[satchnz]

Slots are ALWAYS rigged during the sessions I lose.

 

[clogs]

Sadly my last 2 deposits came to nothing

 

[clogs]

Also I've had 800 profit balances a few times the last few weeks an lost it all without withdrawing anything

 

[clogs]

Last night I turned 75 into 1350, only got out 600, then put in 100 and got it upto 1350 again, got out about 1100 of that.

 

[DreddBeat]

You can't expect to win in every session. Maybe take breaks because the more often you play, the more likely you will start to lose.

 

[clogs]

I turned 15 free play to 600 last week, went back down to 15, then turned that into 1200, then lost it all. Gutting, also blew thousands on balances I should have withdraw, all this last few weeks. Realistically I should be up atleast twice what I am atm

 

[snorky510238]

Commonly know as a change of opinion “when the clog’s on the other foot”.

 

[clogs]

Nah it's definitely rigged. Farbto many times missed spins coralates to a nice hit

 

[goatwack]

......

can't really be that rigged if a game lets a player be up by several hundred quid at a time, can it.

The biggest hurdle most players fall to is knowing when to take the winnings and run. Going from 15 to 1200, then losing it, is not a new phenomenon. Entitlement to win after every deposit in some unending upward trajectory is a flawed approach.

Wouldn't place too much emphasis on the visual near-misses and tilting cues, they're largely just hastily arranged visual results shoehorned in off the back of numbers crunching in the background

 

[Nate]

Yes lots of players have banned Bonanza. That slot is so bad, it's the ONLY slot Casinomeister has added to the rogue pit...

Just ask @snorky510238

 

[Valhalla]

The entire Microgaming back catalogue has been banned by me. Used to be some of the best games around but after the re-brand they are easily the worst.
Immortal Romance, TSII, BdBA, Adventure Palace, Thunderstruck, and on and on. All of them are dross.

 

[clogs]

So I've only ever had 100 buys, how would you rate my run

 

[KasinoKing]

So I've only ever had 100 buys, how would you rate my run

How much do they cost?

Of course, your average return (over infinite buys) should be the published TRTP of the game.
So for e.g. if your buys are $100 and the TRTP was 96%, then your average return should be $96.

But as very big wins are a possibility, I would expect the vast majority of your results to be WAY lower than the average.

KK

 

[Valhalla]

How much do they cost?

Of course, your average return (over infinite buys) should be the published TRTP of the game.
So for e.g. if your buys are $100 and the TRTP was 96%, then your average return should be $96.

But as very big wins are a possibility, I would expect the vast majority of your results to be WAY lower than the average.

KK

The buy costs 100x on Sugar Rush, so each buy has cost £20 here.

 

[clogs]

I think it's a good run, I got a 1110x an a 950 x back to back an plenty of nice hits. Seen some streamers go 20 buys without a 2x an 50 without a 3x

 

[thr0b]

Looks to me like your average win is 115x which is of course significantly above the slot's rated RTP. I assume you're playing offshore at a 96% site, as you're in the UK but buying bonuses.

You have a good spread of massive wins and damp squibs.

Your wins total £15050 on a spend of £1940.

(Excuse any crap maths. Also your screenshots may include some duplicates, and I spotted only 97 buys)

 

[clogs]

Yeah I seem to be having great luck, my first day playing was insane. In that streak I had a 13 out of 15 buy streak that were not above 0.6x so most the other time it was just won after win

 

[thr0b]

In all honesty, that run is probably too good. I'd look at another game for a bit as it'll get you otherwise

 

[clogs]

This 1 hurt. I seem to be the 1.5x crash sandwiched between dozens of x hits for my last 20 goes lol

 

[clogs]

Yeah, if I posted the buys in order it looks mighty lucky

 

[bamberfishcake]

I noticed at the bottom of the Pragmatic Replay UI, it states

'Only the latest 100 of the highest wins, equal or higher than 10x total bet are displayed in Pragmatic Replay'.

So, if you had any shockers among the 100, it wouldn't show them, and if you are assuming you have only ever done 100 buys because that's what is listed, dare I suggest you might be forgetting one or two?

Would love to see the streamers who did 50 or 100 in a row without anything over 10x, please post links if you can.

Overall, looks like you had a decent run. As long as you had fun and enjoyed yourself, thats the main thing. The extra dosh is a neat bonus also, nice one

 

[justdoit]

I watched bandit doing fire in hole 2 big bonus buys £720 on 20p he did like 15-20 bonus buys he lost 2k in the end, is so hard to win on bonus buys

 

[clogs]

I noticed at the bottom of the Pragmatic Replay UI, it states

'Only the latest 100 of the highest wins, equal or higher than 10x total bet are displayed in Pragmatic Replay'.

So, if you had any shockers among the 100, it wouldn't show them, and if you are assuming you have only ever done 100 buys because that's what is listed, dare I suggest you might be forgetting one or two?

Would love to see the streamers who did 50 or 100 in a row without anything over 10x, please post links if you can.

Overall, looks like you had a decent run. As long as you had fun and enjoyed yourself, thats the main thing. The extra dosh is a neat bonus also, nice one

Il post my full run in order and it's going to look amazing

 

[bamberfishcake]

It will certainly look better if you list only the Top 100 and leave out any below 10x ?

But as long as you're are having fun, let's not burst any bubbles

 

[Siohmy]

I watched bandit doing fire in hole 2 big bonus buys £720 on 20p he did like 15-20 bonus buys he lost 2k in the end, is so hard to win on bonus buys

Pretty much given up watching his vids. His view on slots is so skewed as to become comical. He’s so offended when he gets three losing bonus buys on a slot as if the probability of these bonus buys mean they should be hitting big wins frequently. Maybe winning on a bonus buy more frequently was somewhat true when they first came out because the volatility was pretty low but no chance now.
Same as people who can’t get their head around the fact that an “18,000x” win is NOT an 18,000x win if you are paying 1000x for the bonus. This is more true than ever now as the bonus buy features so clearly use a different set of outcomes compared to naturally hit features.
Good example is Dead Canary. Bonus buys tend to have a minimum pay which natural bonuses do not.
The run of bonuses above, subject to sub 10x ones not being displayed is exceptionally good. That thing has a habit on non-bonus buys of spitting out 7x type bonuses with alarming regularity.

 

[clogs]

It will certainly look better if you list only the Top 100 and leave out any below 10x ?

But as long as you're are having fun, let's not burst any bubbles

This was my full list

 

[clogs]

Now if I do another hundred at $100 instead of $20, il bet you my results will not come close to this run lol

 

[clogs]

Question, whether I buy for $20 or $200 would it have been the same run, because I'm gutted I didn't bet big, coulda won big on some of these, even if I did have a rub of 12 loses

 

[satchnz]

Pretty much given up watching his vids. His view on slots is so skewed as to become comical. He’s so offended when he gets three losing bonus buys on a slot as if the probability of these bonus buys mean they should be hitting big wins frequently. Maybe winning on a bonus buy more frequently was somewhat true when they first came out because the volatility was pretty low but no chance now.
Same as people who can’t get their head around the fact that an “18,000x” win is NOT an 18,000x win if you are paying 1000x for the bonus. This is more true than ever now as the bonus buy features so clearly use a different set of outcomes compared to naturally hit features.
Good example is Dead Canary. Bonus buys tend to have a minimum pay which natural bonuses do not.
The run of bonuses above, subject to sub 10x ones not being displayed is exceptionally good. That thing has a habit on non-bonus buys of spitting out 7x type bonuses with alarming regularity.

You’re dead right regarding his reaction to bonus buys that don’t pay. Like every bonus buy should be a max win!

Also for someone who plays slots as much as he does, he’s pretty clueless about how the various mechanics work. He’s constantly confused about how even the simplest of slots work, including new ones that reuse mechanics from previous releases. He often thinks a game is flawed until he finally gets what’s going on.

I watched one of his videos recently where he was playing the Mystery Mission - To The Moon base game with the extra bet on. He then decided he would buy a couple of bonuses, but was completely perplexed why the bonus buy button was disabled. It was because he still had the extra bet on, but he just didn’t click. He ranted for a couple of minutes before reloading the game and found the bonus buy button enabled again (because the game loads with the extra bet off by default). Still had no idea and thought the game was bugged.

I must find this entertaining because I still watch him. But then I also watch Victor from All Casino Action who goes into a complete meltdown after he loses his first bet of the session. He has the “worst luck of anyone. Worse than no luck” lol.

 

[clogs]

Only guy I watch is syztmz, he's awesome so watch most how stuff, an a couple trainwreck streams

 

[jasonuk]

You’re dead right regarding his reaction to bonus buys that don’t pay. Like every bonus buy should be a max win!

You see that from a lot of streamers now - particularly those that are playing with fake money.

When they are losing, they need to hold the attention of the livestream audience - so they react about the game is not paying, being rigged, how it used to pay better etc.
When they are winning, they need to focus on the edit for their social media clickbait - so they focus on how big the win is, how amazing the provider is, how you should sign up right now to the shithole casino they are playing on.

In both cases, neither reaction is likely to be genuine. As a group who are already "looked down on" for watching gambling content in the first place, I truly pity the people who watch this fake garbage.

 

[clogs]

Slots are like a pyramid scheme

You start your session, you hit 30-40% in your first 200 spins, get some nice hits and your up a little bit.

Then it switches and 300 spins later you see you hit 5% of spins and those nice 20-40x hits are long gone and your getting 2-5x and your balance is gone.

You figure try again, another 300 spins and same thing happens
You try again, another 300 spins and same thing happens

At what point do they have to tell you it's a pyramid scheme and those first 200 spins were on advanced rtp?

 

[clogs]

This is how I know shining crown is rigged, it will take 80% of your balance, keep you hitting so you stay in the last 20% for a few hundred spins, then you get a hit and your back upto 60%, but within 100 spins your back in to the last 20% of your balance again where it will keep you for a while till you lose


If you see this pattern happen hundreds of times you just know it's the script

 

[The Reel Story]

Ahh, we're back to Shining crown being rigged. Was this before or after you won 3-4k?

I'm not sure how you think this thread will go differently to the other 4/5 you already started about Shining Crown, but I think, perhaps, you may need to admit that you have a problem.

If you are convinced a game is rigged, why are you still playing? If you win but then bust your balance, then why are you still playing? The issue here is not the games, the issue is that you have a gambling problem and I sincerely suggest you seek support.

My guess is, each time you bust your balance, you come here and start a thread about why it wasn't your fault to justify the loss. That is really unhealthy behaviour and you should get on top of it before it badly impacts your life. Losses are your responsibility, no one elses.

I have a feeling this will fall on deaf ears, but I hope it doesn't, because I would like you to avoid some serious pain in the future.

 

[Valhalla]

@The Reel Story no doubt their next reply will be explaining how they don’t have a problem and “win all the time” despite starting multiple threads indicating that they can’t win because it’s all rigged against them.

And so the story goes on.

 

[goatwack]

From personal experience, almost like clockwork, I've tended to enjoy the boons of a new game from the outset on countless games. Almost like a 'hook' to reveal the game's generosity and keep me playing!

Coincidental? perhaps. Or maybe I was just 'lucky' straight off the bat!

It's perfectly reasonable to play a game that's rigged - aren't they all? How it goes about it is what's the meat and potatoes, whether it be through the house edge or just good ol' fashioned compensatory behaviour.

There's also nothing inherently wrong with playing games that act in this manner, provided one accepts either scenario, because after all, we're constantly assured that these games can do no wrong, and to blindly trust them over thousands of spins, as the slotting gods will make it all better

When coming to the realisation that slots behave in the most peculiar, un-random random ways, then constantly bemoaning the incredulity of it all, then nothing's truly been learnt from the experience, and you're just making yourself a glutton for punishment

 

[Siohmy]

Couldn’t possibly watch streamers. Comically bad and it’d do my head in. Used to like watching things like the Bandit as you got useful feedback on a number of games and what their bonuses were like so quite handy if you wanted to play.
Pointless now to be honest.

 

[Valhalla]

From personal experience, almost like clockwork, I've tended to enjoy the boons of a new game from the outset on countless games. Almost like a 'hook' to reveal the game's generosity and keep me playing!

Coincidental? perhaps. Or maybe I was just 'lucky' straight off the bat!

I find that as well (see my post about Sugar Rush as a prime example). New game is great for a while then, to put it mildly, turns to shit. They update the game with a lower RTP imo.

The slots are already rigged in the casinos’ favour so it’s moot to question it. But I don’t think they are rigged on a by-player basis, I just think the advertised RTP/TRTP isn’t quite what it is made out to be. It’s whether or not you can live with it that matters.

 

[Siohmy]

Well the UK is governed by advertised RTP %age so risk losing their license if they are carrying a slot with incorrect version. That said it has happened before and brushed off as a help file “mistake” (yeah sure) so you cannot really be 100% sure the odd thing may slip through the net.
Unregulated casinos and those who do not have to display RTP %ages I’d say there is a good chance they reduce the RTP if they have a high RTP to start with.
Put it this way, I’m fairly certain Vegas casinos reduce the RTP on popular slots after a while. Apparently someone who vlogs recently asked a casino rep of a strip casino if they reduced the payout of Huff and More Puff as it seemed to not pay out as well as when it was first out. By all accounts was met with “no comment”, a smile and a wink. Make of that what you will.

 

[MahoneyKnows]

The amount of times I have a newly registered account that experiences magical runs in the early stages just to have the opposite occur within a week is quite amazing. When I was disciplined I’d realize the 500-1000x gains and move onto the next site. With the amount of sites now operating under the same umbrella organizations / gaming “authority” it seems your reputation precedes you wherever you go…. After a withdrawal it’s amazing how hard the door is slammed…. And with the predatory restrictions meant to dwindle those balances before the profit can be realized it’s fairly plain to me that it’s not random at all.

Here in my province we have “VLT’s” in most bars - when those new games come out Holly Cow are they generous to the point of absurdity - the trap is set knowing full well how most degenerate gamblers react over time to those incredible days…. Chase that dragon into oblivion.

 

[MahoneyKnows]

Pretty sure we’ve all experienced the games where 1 and 2 bonus symbol appears where the third slowly disappears just out of sight and onto the very next space out of play - and of course the distinct pattern (top or bottom portion) of the desired symbol is there to taunt you. Very next spin what do ya know…. That 3rd scatter or bonus is right where you wished it was the spin before. I’d venture a guess and say it’s to create that false hope sense where players say “so close - it’s coming”. It’s disgusting when you’ve played a specific game long enough and are able to call out the exact position of the needed symbol for the previous spin before you’ve taken the next one. Or in poker where you have 4 of the 5 required for the Royal just to miss but on the very next deal there’s that SOB on staring at you first card up.

 

[The Reel Story]

Pretty sure we’ve all experienced the games where 1 and 2 bonus symbol appears where the third slowly disappears just out of sight and onto the very next space out of play - and of course the distinct pattern (top or bottom portion) of the desired symbol is there to taunt you. Very next spin what do ya know…. That 3rd scatter or bonus is right where you wished it was the spin before. I’d venture a guess and say it’s to create that false hope sense where players say “so close - it’s coming”. It’s disgusting when you’ve played a specific game long enough and are able to call out the exact position of the needed symbol for the previous spin before you’ve taken the next one. Or in poker where you have 4 of the 5 required for the Royal just to miss but on the very next deal there’s that SOB on staring at you first card up.

This is true and is allowed. Only the main symbols in view have to be accurate. The ones above and below are up to the game providers and they do often make them scatters (or even odds random of any symbol, which puts a lot more scatters on than it should and makes it look like impossible results are possible).

Lazy design in my view.

 

[jasonuk]

This is true and is allowed. Only the main symbols in view have to be accurate. The ones above and below are up to the game providers and they do often make them scatters (or even odds random of any symbol, which puts a lot more scatters on than it should and makes it look like impossible results are possible).

Lazy design in my view.

I wonder if this comes down to reels versus drops though? If you had reels, showing something different could be considered misleading because an informed player would know what comes next on the reel strip. For drops there's no such constraint so they can fake it as much as they want.

Thinking back to some slots of yesteryear, I recall language like "bonus overlay" to get around the limitation - the bonus symbol was removed from the (regulated) reel and added as a stand-alone "overlay" that they could manipulate to their hearts content.

 

[snorky510238]

Games such as Napoleon and DoA have scatters next to symbols where they never otherwise appear, unless it’s a tease.

 

[The Reel Story]

I wonder if this comes down to reels versus drops though? If you had reels, showing something different could be considered misleading because an informed player would know what comes next on the reel strip. For drops there's no such constraint so they can fake it as much as they want.

Thinking back to some slots of yesteryear, I recall language like "bonus overlay" to get around the limitation - the bonus symbol was removed from the (regulated) reel and added as a stand-alone "overlay" that they could manipulate to their hearts content.

To my knowledge, there are no rules around this. Providers can do what they like. Even if it's reels, and an informed player can see it's not a valid setup, it's still allowed. As long as the paying section of the display is valid to the reel sets, anything else outside that is fine. Napoleon is a particularly egregious example because it sometimes shows scatters so close together that you could have 2 in the pay zone on one reel, which we know is impossible.

I think UKGC were talking about rules around this though, but I don't believe anything is actually in force at the moment.