I always knew the advertised rtp is a lie!

foulen991

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I will try to keep this as short as possible, I am addicted to online slots, I lost alot and I won alot. Past 2 years I dont play as much as I used to be because my deposits dont last anymore. 200 can be gone in 20 mins playing 0.4 spins. The very few times I made a profit its when I hit something like 5000x and then there will be absoulitly nothing for a long time. Slots became So volatile Even the games that used to be low/meduim volatility I feel like the math was changed or something. Now its not uncommon to go 700 spins without a bonus to finally land one that pays x10 or less ?

I own a phone repair shop, I have a customer who brings me lots of phones for repairs, he became loyal to the shop since I once repaired his phone for a very low fee and within 5 mins when another two shops asked fpr a big sum. A week ago I hit an outstanding 14500x on zeus vs hades from buying a super bonus, As I was discussing this win with a fellow friend in my shop, this loyal customer overheard us. He didnt day anything at first but when he came back to collect the tablette, he approached me and asked if he can go behind the counter. The dude sat next to me, took his phone and told me: Plz stop gambling, you will lose all your money. You have a good heart please dont ruin your life. Im gonna show you something that maybe can make you stop.

In his phone he proceed to show me the stats for the last year for the freaking most popular online casino in my country. He is the owner. Slots rtp are 79% with the biggest offenders being pragmaticplqu at 74% and hacksaw at 76% then wazdan at 77% then playngon at 80%... I couldnt believe my eyes. He proceed to show me the stats for the year before and 3 years ago and then 4 years ago... The overall rtp 4 years ago was 88% then it kept declining over the years. From what I was shown the only provider that had a fair consistent rtp was pg soft with 95% and there is 3oaks/boongo with 92%


The amount wagered every year is so big that its impossible to bring the rtp to the claimed numbers shown on the games. I was absoloutly in shock, when he left I reopened every damn pragmaticplay game on his casino and every single slot was claiming max possible rtp version 96% and over.

If 4 years are not enough to make the slots hit something close to the advertised rtp then how much time is needed? How is it legal to advertise 96% when the real rtp is way below that?? If someone familiar with pragmaticplay servers, in this casino when you play a game it connects to a server named: agp-dk3.pragmaticplay...
Yes I inspected the games and they are not fake. I focus on pragmatic because its the most popular provider in my country and the amounts wagered over 4 years is do big that I could possibly buy half my city with it if not all of it ?.
 
Wondering what the heck RTP is? Find out here at Casinomeister.
He owns a casino but worries about repair costs for his phone? Sounds likely
Why is he bringing you lots of phones to repair? Does he have a sideline of refurbishing used phones, along with his ownership of the most popular casino in your country?
Also, this males no sense "The amount wagered every year is so big that its impossible to bring the rtp to the claimed numbers shown on the games"
Billions are wagered on roulette every day and the rtp is always 97.3%. That's because the rtp is inherent in the game
Slots are very much more complicated but still the rtp is inherent in the game. No one is trying to "make it reach the rtp". If you have a million possible spin variations and the total payout of all those spins would equal 95% of the money wagered, then the rtp is 95%

To put it short, unless you can provide adequate proof that slots are paying out at 80% rtp longterm then this is just another nonsense post making silly claims with no basis
 
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To put it short, unless you can provide adequate proof that slots are paying out at 80% rtp longterm then this is just another nonsense post making silly claims with no basis
Pretty much this - while some providers offer sub-90% math models, they're not that common yet and of the big names I can only think of PlayNGo (84%, 87%) and LnW (88%) off the top of my head.

For this story to have any basis in reality, either all the providers are bent (one of them might be, all of them is a significant leap), or the casino itself is bent; or much more likely the "owner" is making it up...

I don't for a minute believe that gambling is as clean as some in the industry may suggest - its history goes hand in hand with criminality, and we see plenty of it to this day (fake streamers, rogue operators, pirated games etc).

But for all of those moving parts to orchestrate a crime with no evidence at all? Many of them couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery...

Now if the OP had suggested they are skimming a couple of percent off the top - that's very likely given modern slot design... and TRTP not being fit for purpose is a recurring discussion on here.
 
Slots are absolutely rigged

Imagine someone saying until you hit that 1 in 15 million hit your going to be running at 80% and until you hit that 1 in a million your going to be running at 75%, and until you hit that 1 in 100,00 your running at 70% and until you hit that 1 in 10,000 your running at 65%

Most people lose their whole balance 9/10x they play, deposit after deposit after deposit.

Easy to go on repeated cold death runs when you don't get those nice top up wins, which is where they bankrupt people.
 
Some experts below are explaining very clearly how RTPs actually should work ;)


A fair point but wholly out of context unless you mention deviation parameters - those are the most important factor when considering slot performance based on a fractional part of the huge number of spins the games are (allegedly) tested across. That of course is then related to overall volatility.

Sounds like he expects to put $1 in the slot and get out 96c in the payout tray every spin.
 
My rule of thumb is an RTP of 40%. Without a mega bonus that is about your rate of return. You can only look forward to the remaining 50%+ if your bank roll is big enough to last out hundreds, probably thousands of spins till the bonus arrives. Avoid slots, play casino table games which give similar RTP without the huge variability.
 
I have gone off slots a bit recently and tend to enjoy playing either red door or XXXtreme live roulette.

They cant (well probably) rig a live roulette wheel and the bonus wheel on Red Door seems pretty random to me.

Have had more 400x wins on there this year than in the last 10 years of slotting, and hit a 2000x and a 3 1400x.

And with Red Door, the act of getting a key land and going to the wheel feels like a feature in itself.
 
Sorry I do not believe your story "He Owns a casino"

This does sound very far fetched. I think this was more a rant because of how much he has lost and he just made up this story for what ever gratification he gets from doing so.

But even if what he said was remotely true of course the all time RTP in a casino for each slot or provider will be far lower than the TRTP. Most people are unlucky and the RTP is always not going to be reliable.

Furthermore most people get carried away with the visuals and the disgusting near misses in the RNG pull visual results that get displayed. All slots and newer slots are getting far worse with countless near misses, nearly every second spin you get a near miss spin.

It is shockingly bad that they get away with this. I wished the UKGC or other governing bodies would regulate the slot providers and ask them to remove the near misses from their RNG and code of their slots. Will it happen I doubt it.

When people get so blind sighted about the true facts on how slots actually work is when you have to stop. Gambling should only be done if you can afford to lose that money you intend to spend for "Entertainment purposes only" Not chasing losses and not getting blind sighted by the visuals of the slots themselves. Maths is all that matter. We are always the losers and always will be unless you play once a year with $100/£100/€100 and win each year/session, there probably is some people who do play only once a year and actually win in that 1 session.

At the end of the day gamble what you can afford to lose and enjoy the entertainment once it is no longer entertaining or fun. STOP!
 
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But even if what he said was remotely true of course the all time RTP in a casino for each slot or provider will be far lower than the TRTP. Most people are unlucky and the RTP is always not going to be reliable.
That would still make no sense - the maths model is the maths model and doesn't care about history or luck. As the sample size increases - RTP will trend towards TRTP.

There may be slight variations in the calculation - e.g. actual wagers versus normalised wagers - but that impact will decrease over time.

Of course, if we add the words stored value to the statement all bets are off - and that can permanently track below TRTP because any players who doesn't complete the "cycle" gives away RTP to the house. So a 96% slot can unknowingly (to the player) have a 6-8% house edge 🤢

TRTP is the "optimal" "long term" average - the experience of one player over a billion spins is different to a million players over a thousand spins each.
 
I quite like near misses. Sure, if it's blatantly obvious that you're getting way too many that never land it's annoying but I'd still rather see that than a 'less exciting' spin that's dead.
That's why I liked WMS Life of Luxury range from yesteryear. Whilst it had 3 scatters for the free spins, the Life of Luxury was a 1 hit scatter to trigger that only existed on the last reel. No build up, no let down, just boom, in it dropped and you had an instant adrenalin rush.
 
That's why I liked WMS Life of Luxury range from yesteryear. Whilst it had 3 scatters for the free spins, the Life of Luxury was a 1 hit scatter to trigger that only existed on the last reel. No build up, no let down, just boom, in it dropped and you had an instant adrenalin rush.
And also genuine odds - when
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, the fifth reel was 675 (!) stops long... roughly 12x the natural length of the reel, but thus providing a natural 1 in 225 chance of triggering the Life of Luxury feature.

For all the bluster about modern slots, having drops or other manufactured mechanics is an open door for fakery and similar nonsense (and there are slots out there where the "just missed" ratio is approaching half of spins) - and when we're getting to slots offering scripted 60,000x sequences on a 10,000x capped win... I would suggest we're getting into the realms of fraud.

I have absolutely no qualms with natural just misses - that's mathematics in action. So many games now-a-days are blatantly not doing that though... even though it's supposed to be discouraged by the regulator? (asleep again, naturally).
 
Did anyone ever research or validate the claims of online slots with multiple concurrent users playing it, be "rigged"?

Scenario, if I recall correctly, was that a slot would adjust its payouts accordingly to the amount of players.
 
Wondering what the heck RTP is? Find out here at Casinomeister.

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