Cirrus Casino complaint - fraudulent claim

[scrollock]

if this is a case of player fraud as its beginning to look like, then i cant beleive the stupidity of this person.

first of all you dont mess with cirrus, if they can delay and screw around genuine players and those "hunters" that have read & fulfilled every T+C, then they are certainly not going to roll over and pay up on a free chip were they suspect player fraud.

once caught, the person should of just accepted it and moved on, rather than coming on here and relying on cirrus's bad rep and CM's willingness to help to try and get paid, when there was no prospect of it ever happening once the casino knew he had duplicate accounts.

 

[johnsteed]

Destination: All boarding to the land of defunct...

***


Casinomeister

You need to refresh your browser. They are listed between "Casino Onliner" and "Destination Poker" - two other fine examples of casino ineptitude and funkiness.

scrollock

...if they can delay and screw around genuine players and those "hunters" that have read & fulfilled every T+C, then they are certainly not going to roll over and pay up on a free chip were they suspect player fraud.

So true scrollock, yet oddly enough, I did me a lit'l bonus huntin' at Destination Poker back in early '04, and was paid a handsome $50 (after a fax-back and multiple phone calls). I must be THE luckiest man alive to have gotten paid there without ever having to deposit a dime.

Out of curiousity, I've tried the "rogue" link to Destination Poker, but I'm under the assumption that they're now defunct.

Another point I wanted to bring up, was while Cirrus has certainly commited a VERY long list of no-no's, is there a group (I'll call them "Le Resistance de Cirrus") who's sole purpose is to undermine them? I know it sounds silly, because they already undermine themselves, but it "seems" that something else is in play here.


***

 

[scrollock]

***

"Another point I wanted to bring up, was while Cirrus has certainly commited a VERY long list of no-no's, is there a group (I'll call them "Le Resistance de Cirrus") who's sole purpose is to undermine them? I know it sounds silly, because they already undermine themselves, but it "seems" that something else is in play here."

***

what like ? would you be on about 2 of the other complaints in this section about this group (but not cirrus) by 2 different posters who regularly post on a well known bonus whoring site.

 

[Casinomeister]

...
Out of curiousity, I've tried the "rogue" link to Destination Poker, but I'm under the assumption that they're now defunct.

You assume correctly.

...
Another point I wanted to bring up, was while Cirrus has certainly commited a VERY long list of no-no's, is there a group (I'll call them "Le Resistance de Cirrus") who's sole purpose is to undermine them? I know it sounds silly, because they already undermine themselves, but it "seems" that something else is in play here..

This is something that I am cautious about when approaching player complaints - there is a lot of fraud activity.

But on the other hand, casinos who do not abide by their own posted terms and conditions should not be in the business. Cirrus' terms are crystal clear about their payment schedules. What is annoying is that it seems that these payments are not automated - some one has to be reminded to send the payment, or they rely on the player to remind them to send the payment. This is a hokey-ass way to run a casino.

Back to this player in point. He's a fraudster unless proven otherwise. His claim to be threatened over the phone is bullshit unless he comes forth with a copy of a complaint filed at his local police department and the FBI.

And since this seemed to be the straw that broke the camel's back, I'll transfer Cirrus from the rogue section back to the "not recommended" section. Fair is fair.

It's still beyond me why anyone plays there. If you have a problem at Cirrus, it's your own damn fault - don't go looking for any sympathy around here.

 

[johnsteed]

Two acts/one post

***


Casinomeister

You assume correctly.

I'm now beginning to wonder if it was MY $50 win that put this company in the red for good. I can see it now...

Destination Paradise​

Act III

Accountant sleeping at desk when all of a sudden...

Basement door of the accounting department swings open...

Cue Pitboss - holding a mixed cold-cut foot-long sub (sandwich) in left-hand while clinching a fist with his right, storms-in and starts demanding...


Pitboss: Transfer all of the casinos winnings into our offshore accounts!!! Hide it quickly, but quietly.

Accountant: Senor Pitboss, what about this one...

Pitboss: Where's it going to?

Accountant: South Korea senor.

Pitboss: I think we might have a few accounts there! Send it through...

Accountant: But Senor, shouldn't I check just to make sure that he's not a REAL player? I think it would be wise to...

Pitboss: Just send it dammit!!! Don't ask questions you infant!



Pitboss throws half-eaten sub at the wall... storms out of the accounting room... Cut... End of ActIII.



cont...

But on the other hand, casinos who do not abide by their own posted terms and conditions should not be in the business... It's still beyond me why anyone plays there. If you have a problem at Cirrus, it's your own damn fault - don't go looking for any sympathy around here.

Agreed. Rogue or not, anybody who does just a tiny bit of research about this place, should and will no better than to EVER make a deposit there. I truly don't understand these operators/owners/management (whomever and whatever), if you took care of your customers and ALWAYS paid them, you're (likely) still going to make your money in the long-run.

Easier said than done I'm sure, but if some of these operations just saw that instead of the quick buck, they can really make a long-term goal of what they're doing. I realize that Cirrus has been in operation for quite some time, but with more and more people coming to watchdog sites (like Casinomeister.com), there will come a time where enough people will know better. And I would imagine with that with the already increased hike of online players (I believe it's 7% to 30% now) who now come to (visit) these sites, that time will come much sooner than later.


scrollock

what like ? would you be on about 2 of the other complaints in this section about this group (but not cirrus) by 2 different posters who regularly post on a well known bonus whoring site.

Scrollock, I'm not 100% clear about your question. I have no real way of knowing who is and who isn't making fraudulent claims, it just "seems" that it's a little too perfect that all of these similar stories are coming in succession. If you said that this was happening to you (and your +300 posts at this forum), there's MUCH more weight to those claims (I'd take your word for it).

Personally, I think someone from the FBI should make a deposit (and someone who knows how to win ), make a hefty withdrawal following the casinos very own terms & conditions, call up this particular manager and let him know you're looking forward to receiving your winnings (which will just tick-him-off... so I've heard and read), let this guy fall into the trap of shooting-his-mouth-off, accept his challenge when he threatens to send his boys of whichever locale (his world posse) down to do the grunt work, and get them (thugs) to say "Hello" to a company of agents w/handcuffs and transportation service awaiting their arrival. Operation closed down... (hopeful but not necessarily) end of story.


***

 

[ximo]

Bryan, I can see you are in contact with cirrus permanently in this case,
but what about people who are waiting to be paid?.
Casino manager has delegated delayed payments to accounting.
Is that you can't contact him or the owner to finish this situation?.
I tried also to contact Mr McCain with no answer.
You don't know how frustated I feel.

 

[scrollock]

johnsteed i'm agreeing with what you say.

at the moment there is 4 complaints against this group.

this one which is which looks like player fraud.

two of them, a simple google search shows them to be members of a well known bonus whoring portal.

this casino group is responsible for its own problems, if you are going to offer 500%-100% bonuses on deposits upto $20,000 deposits then the chances are you are going to be hit by the hunters and fraudsters.

however judging by the fact, that this group will send out offers from one of its sister casinos to a player they have recently refused to pay out due "player fraud" suggests to me that they are actually in the business of wanting to atract this custom because its gives them good reasons to refuse large cash-outs.

this i beleive is the whole Modus operandi of this group and they are not interested in genuine custom but in ripping off whores and fraudsters who have set out to make money out of them.

as i pointed out, people seem to find this site quick enough when they encounter a problem, which tells me that they are aware of this site and the fact that cirrus is not recommended.

so i guess if you have $10k to throw about on online, then any sensible person would not play at a group like this even if the chances of not getting paid were only 0.01%. i guess the only people that would take the chance would be a hardcore whore and this covers the last complaint out of the four.

FAO hunters, whores and the plain stupid

heres a selection of some of cirruses "festive" offers.

100% cashable upto $5,000 wr x30

100% cashable upto $20,000 NO WR!!!

250% non cashable upto $20,000 wr x25

only banned games are PONTOON, BACCARAT AND CRAPS

just look at the offers, a bonus far higher any other casino on the net,in percentage terms better any other group on the net,playthroughs far lower than any other group (no wr at all WTF??) and then the clincher BJ and roulette allowed, the old whores favourite especially since it is missed by them as it has been banned by 95% of the casinos

the big casino groups like 888.com and bellerock wouldnt be able to give these offers, so how do you expect this group to honour them ? especially since their rep is so low that the amout of genuine players here must be tiny in comparison to the number of people who set out to make a quick buck from this group.

if you deposit for any of of these festive offers, i wish you a merry christmas because cirrus certainly will.

 

[umberto]

Cirrus just contacted me with information that you have six accounts with them.

How does a casino accept a player with six accounts? Don't you ask
any documents ( passport, bank statement etc ) if you understand
that there is a descrepancy between accounts? I read that the three
emails in six accounts were the same. What do more do you want as a
sign for player fraud? Why don't you close the more than one accounts
at once and tell the player that he will be banned for life if he opens a
second account?

I really agree that player fraud must not be toleratedsuch as the casino
fraud and payments delays.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

How does a casino accept a player with six accounts? Don't you ask
any documents ( passport, bank statement etc ) if you understand
that there is a descrepancy between accounts? I read that the three
emails in six accounts were the same. What do more do you want as a
sign for player fraud? Why don't you close the more than one accounts
at once and tell the player that he will be banned for life if he opens a
second account?

I really agree that player fraud must not be toleratedsuch as the casino
fraud and payments delays.

Because then there's a chance of the casino making money off the fraudulant player.

If the player ends up depositing in one of the multiple accounts and playing then the casino is in a win-win situation:

A) Player wins, but has winnings confiscated for having multiple accounts - therefore saving themselves the winnings. or....
B) Loses, and casino keeps his/her winnings.

That seems fair enough to me, if the player wants to try and screw the casino then it's fair play for the casino to give them chance to screw themselves.

 

[johnsteed]

Some stones left unturned...

***


Dirk Diggler

That seems fair enough to me, if the player wants to try and screw the casino then it's fair play for the casino to give them chance to screw themselves.

umberto

How does a casino accept a player with six accounts? Don't you ask
any documents ( passport, bank statement etc ) if you understand
that there is a descrepancy between accounts? I read that the three
emails in six accounts were the same. What do more do you want as a
sign for player fraud? Why don't you close the more than one accounts
at once and tell the player that he will be banned for life if he opens a
second account?

Hi good people,


I don't believe that every person who's ever had a second account was well aware of it. It may be constued as irresponsibility on the players part for not keeping track of such things, but surely some of the forum members here at one point it time have made the mistake of having multiple accounts at a casino. I've made that mistake myself, but I'm not one to cheat the system (you'll have to take my word for it ).


I had a situation like that come up at one time with an RTG casino (where I assume most of these cases arise, because it's FAR less likely to happen at an MG, Crypto, or even a PlayTech casino for heavens sake), and I wasn't aware that I had multiple accounts there (my mistake... yes, my mistake). On the second account, I was about to make a very substantial withdrawal when I was informed that it wasn't going to happen, based on my having two seperate accounts. So a plethora of questions I had to ask myself came up, like:


- Despite only claiming and being accepted for one bonus, I really hadn't done anything that could morally be called cheating (the system). Am I still a cheat? To them yes, end of story (thank you for your deposits ).


- Isn't it wrong that the casino should withhold some form of information regarding my having multiple accounts? I mean, they DO have that information, and they DID accept my second account. How come they don't warn the player prior to accepting it? And from what I understand, if it does take a while for them to figure-out whether or not you have multiple accounts, what's a reasonable time frame for them to be able to figure these things out? I had made one deposit in the 1st account, and multiple deposits in the other over a span of 3 years (obviously the last deposit, I had a bit of luck on it and that would have been my 1st withdrawal... which begs an even BIGGER question, why still play there if you can't make a withdrawal UNTIL after 3 years ).


- If they're well aware that they've got you, and they feel that they're right to continue to drag you along if you haven't been lucky enough to withdraw (because you're deemed a cheat) and find out your true fate with that particular casino, isn't it VERY wrong for them to continually send you promos?


It's a knee-jerk reaction that we label the player a cheat when it could have just been a mistake. Despite my being labelled a cheat at one casino, if it's an RTG, I ALWAYS make it a habit (a very small habit because I rarely deposit at new RTG casinos - or old RTG's for that matter) of making sure that I don't have multiple accounts, JUST to be clear.

I view it like this. If there was an intersection of traffic lights that were all stuck on red, and there was a traffic officer waving you to go, but then asks you to pull over, gives you a ticket for going through a red light, despite him giving you the okay, is that alright?

Okay, surely this may be viewed as a bit of a stretch, but I personally feel that when and if their system is going to give you the green light on a new account, they should make sure everything is in order prior to accepting you. IOW, it's unethical that they're going to wave you through (BECAUSE of the information they're hiding from the player) while knowing full-well that you'll never see a penny of your winnings.


***

 

[umberto]

I had a situation like that come up at one time with an RTG casino (where I assume most of these cases arise, because it's FAR less likely to happen at an MG, Crypto, or even a PlayTech casino for heavens sake)

I think that RTG is the main problem. The guy had six accounts with them some of which were sharing the same information. That's unacceptable. Only an RTG would enforce strategies like to this to deceive player. If another casino found a clue of messing account then I believe proper documentation would be asked to clarify the problem. RTG provider and casinos should step a move forward regarding this matter and regarding the extraterrestrial bonuses offered which is the start of everything.

 

[phynqster]

As a previous manager who had to deal with issue on a routine basis I will chime in a little here.
As far as RTG goes, they have know implemented a system to stop multiple sign-ups from the same IP, but for casinos that have been open before the change it does not work. For new casinos it does work.
At the casino we tried to review every new signup the next day. Most times multiple accounts are easy to detect, but some times you may get upwords of 500 new signups on a single night. To try and eliminate multiple accounts it takes an average of 20 minutes per account to verify it and ban it. I have had some players who have had over 700 accounts, but still felt they should be paid if they won.
As far as someone with just two accounts, who had made a deposit, they were never ever turned down for a withdrawal if they had actually made a deposit, before winning. I can't believe a casino would ever hold multiple accounts against a player as long as the player made a deposit following the rules.