Cheated ?

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
Right this guy was preety tight all game, Now explain these calls to me please ? I am convinced he can see cards lol :eek:
Remember it pays 3 places and look esp hand 1.
** Hand # 2314625922 starting - 2008-12-14 21:59:36
** Full-Table Freezeout[2386324]:Table 1 [Sit & Go Hold 'em] (300.00|600.00 NL - MTT) Real Money

thumperabbit sitting in seat 1 with 6992.50
SaabCabrio sitting in seat 6 with 1785.00
ThePyrate sitting in seat 7 with 6217.50
mdl82 sitting in seat 9 with 5005.00[Dealer]
thumperabbit ante'd - 20.00
SaabCabrio ante'd - 20.00
ThePyrate ante'd - 20.00
mdl82 ante'd - 20.00
thumperabbit posted the small blind - 150.00
SaabCabrio posted the big blind - 300.00

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Ac, As
ThePyrate folded
mdl82 raised to 1200.00
thumperabbit raised to 3300.00
SaabCabrio went all-in - 1465.00
mdl82 folded
SaabCabrio shows: 5h, 10h

** Dealing the flop: 5s, 9s, 4s

** Dealing the turn: 5d

** Dealing the river: Kd
SaabCabrio wins 4810.00 from the main pot
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
my exit to him :eek:
** Hand # 2314645022 starting - 2008-12-14 22:07:40
** Full-Table Freezeout[2386324]:Table 1 [Sit & Go Hold 'em] (600.00|1200.00 NL - MTT) Real Money

thumperabbit sitting in seat 1 with 4502.50[Dealer]
SaabCabrio sitting in seat 6 with 5815.00
ThePyrate sitting in seat 7 with 2872.50
mdl82 sitting in seat 9 with 6810.00
SaabCabrio ante'd - 45.00
ThePyrate ante'd - 45.00
mdl82 ante'd - 45.00
thumperabbit ante'd - 45.00
SaabCabrio posted the small blind - 300.00
ThePyrate posted the big blind - 600.00

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Ah, Kh
mdl82 folded
thumperabbit raised to 2400.00
SaabCabrio went all-in - 5470.00
ThePyrate folded
thumperabbit went all-in - 2057.50
SaabCabrio shows: 6s, As

** Dealing the flop: 7c, 10c, 5h

** Dealing the turn: 6d

** Dealing the river: 8d
SaabCabrio wins 9695.00 from the main pot
 

NextToYou

Experienced Member
webmeister
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Location
Europe
Villain plays well in both hands, what is the problem? And you played correct also of course.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Hushda,

I see what you are seeing. Maybe the guy just has real big balls and was "running a rabbit" as we say in Texas and got REAL lucky. :D
 

SteveCut

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Location
EU
The first one looks bad, but remember he was about to be blinded out (M<2) and saw a chance to triple-up.
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
Villain plays well in both hands, what is the problem? And you played correct also of course.

Its totally discusting play, He had chance of geting into money AND knew there was a monster out,And hand two is double discusting, Next to you i can see why you play lottery poker ohama. If both hands are not foldable then i am the pope. And i have won a fortune past 6 days and cleaning out on xmas promo :lolup: So i am afraid i have put these hand historys in wrong place.You are all losing players END OFF . Last time i put any hh here, Really next to you you do need serious help in nl . merry xmas all :p
 

NextToYou

Experienced Member
webmeister
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Location
Europe
Sorry to disappoint you hushda, but you are the one being incorrect here about the villain's plays here.

In the first hand:

This is a single table tournament, where top3 places are paid, right? Villain has only 1785 chips left and blinds are 150/300, so he has effectively only under 6 big blinds left in his stack and he has to had put even one big blind already in from his stack due to him being on the big blind. Next lowest stack is over 5000 chips. Remember that this is a sit'n'go, which pays top3 and nothing for 4th, which affects strategy also in this specific scenario.

There is a raise and a re-raise in front of him. Now in this case if he calls it is very likely that first raiser will fold, since he doesn't want to gamble in a spot when he is likely to climb up to paying positions while you confront the shortstack villain. So there is effectively 1200 + (your) 3300 (1785 chips for him effectively, because he doesn't have more) + (his blind) 300 chips in the pot and he has 1485 chips left. Now it is likely that the first raiser will fold if he (villain) calls. So effectively villain get following pot odds to a call: 1200+1785+1785 chips to win with a call of 1485 chips.

This leads to a calculation of: 1485/(1200+1785+1785) = ~0.31% so he needs only 31% equity against your range to call being profitable in a just a cash game environment. And this even with not taking other important factors into account like shortness of his stack and price distribution of this sit'n'go, which actually are very important things and push the equity needed down a lot for him - I am not an expert by any means of ICM or other sit'n'go strategy/money-models, but I'd give educated guess that those factors lower his need for equity down to ~25% at least, likely to lower percentage.

Now we can use a program to calculate his equity against your likely 3-betting range in this 4-handed phase of the tournament. I put your 3-betting range to very tight range for 4-handed play, only pairs of TT+ and AJo+ other hands. In reality your 3-betting range at this phase should be wider, but I use this very conservative range for you just to show that even against this tight range his call is correct there. So I use program called
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
- put there your range of hands you might 3-bet. Remember that he is not able to see your hole cards (that you hold AA), but can just put you on a likely range of hands you likely 3-bet with at this phase of the tournament with and then his Th 5h hand he has. Putting these hand and your reange in to the calculation we get following result:

20,894,218 games 25.020 secs 835,100 games/sec

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 71.270% 70.99% 00.28% 14833049 59005.00 { TT+, AJs+, AJo+ }
Hand 1: 28.730% 28.45% 00.28% 5944113 59005.00 { Th5h }


I have bolded the equitys, so in this case villain gets equity of 28.5% against your range, which is higher than ~25% what he would need in equity to make a call correct play (because of the straight pot odds calculated in the beginning and other sit'n'go specific factors mentioned above at this specific scenario).

So in conclusion: Villains play is totally correct.

I am willing to bet significant amounts of money that the majority of the world's top sit'n'go players agree with me about correctedness of villain's play in this hand (I am not among them because I don't like playing tournaments, but I know enough about general poker theory and tournament theory to say everything I have written above).



We could do same kind of analysis for another hand you posted too, but I hope this explanation above is enough for you to understand why villains plays were actually correct and not incorrect or bad. But I already spent 45mins writing this so I hope I don't have to write another one and from now on you believe me more when we are talking about low/micro-stakes poker strategy/theory ;). Merry Xmas for you too and good to hear your luck has been better lately :thumbsup:
 

pokeraddict

Webmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2002
Location
Las Vegas
** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Ac, As
ThePyrate folded
mdl82 raised to 1200.00
thumperabbit raised to 3300.00
SaabCabrio went all-in - 1465.00
mdl82 folded
SaabCabrio shows: 5h, 10h

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Ah, Kh
mdl82 folded
thumperabbit raised to 2400.00
SaabCabrio went all-in - 5470.00
ThePyrate folded
thumperabbit went all-in - 2057.50
SaabCabrio shows: 6s, As

So you think he can see your cards and calls you when you hold AA and calls your AK with A6? Also in hand one, the only hand that even looks bad, he is about to bubble and if he doesn't marry this hand into a 3way pot he will be forced to make a tough decision with a blind hand. The other hand is a normal hand.
 

jas2587

Ueber Meister
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
FL
Its totally discusting play, He had chance of geting into money AND knew there was a monster out,And hand two is double discusting, Next to you i can see why you play lottery poker ohama. If both hands are not foldable then i am the pope. And i have won a fortune past 6 days and cleaning out on xmas promo :lolup: So i am afraid i have put these hand historys in wrong place.You are all losing players END OFF . Last time i put any hh here, Really next to you you do need serious help in nl . merry xmas all :p

sry to say your comments was uncalled for you could have just said I disagree


Cindy
 

catrina m

Dormant account
PABaccred
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Location
US of A
Poker can be a rough game.

What is correct or incorrect, having the chips at the end of the hand is what matters.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Hushda,

Not to piss you off or anything but, face it, you just got beat. He may not have played like the books say or like he was suppose to but he won and in the end that's all that matters.

I have never played online but I have played lots of live games. Sometimes you just got to have the balls to go for it and hope the cards fall your way and in this case they did. Like Kenny Rogers said, "You gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em". He ran you once and won so he tried it again and it worked.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Its totally discusting play, He had chance of geting into money AND knew there was a monster out,And hand two is double discusting, Next to you i can see why you play lottery poker ohama. If both hands are not foldable then i am the pope. And i have won a fortune past 6 days and cleaning out on xmas promo :lolup: So i am afraid i have put these hand historys in wrong place.You are all losing players END OFF . Last time i put any hh here, Really next to you you do need serious help in nl . merry xmas all :p

As Cindy has said, there is no call for being nasty here.

Of course you are free to disagree with NextToYou's reply, but responding with insults and belittlement is totally uncalled for, especially here since NTY was simply offering a response to your question.
 

mysticjoz

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Location
somewhere... over the rainbow!
Its totally discusting play, He had chance of geting into money AND knew there was a monster out,And hand two is double discusting, Next to you i can see why you play lottery poker ohama. If both hands are not foldable then i am the pope. And i have won a fortune past 6 days and cleaning out on xmas promo :lolup: So i am afraid i have put these hand historys in wrong place.You are all losing players END OFF . Last time i put any hh here, Really next to you you do need serious help in nl . merry xmas all :p

Hushda.. in the poker rooms this happens all the time. It looks to me like the opposing player might have "taken a chance" but in both instances had suited cards. Not the best hand.. but for some a playable longshot or a "bluff" that turned his way!
If I had a dime for every time the flop "screwed me" and the "river" sunk me.. I would definately be rich;).. but to be brutally honest I am a little shocked at your above outburst.
We all post here to share experiences, discuss and accept input from other players and at times that "input" is not what we want to hear but it is almost always is in good faith.. (to get into the "almost" part is a derail and a totally seperate thread.. IF it ever got that far).

I would hope you could Please accept the contributing members views without insulting them!! I know at times you have seen "veteran members" behave in this manner. But I think I know you better than that.. and I think you know that it is not acceptable behaviour, in which case an appology would be in order. ;)
I can see your side of the issue... and that is why I don't play poker much anymore. I was always the one with the AA and the other player would go all in with the same hand as above and get the same results. It's infuriating.. but not toward other forum members.

With that said.. I hope you have continued good luck at the tables and the slots or what ever game you chose to play.
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
Theres loads of losing players on this thread. Thank god for you all :thumbsup: p.s i have just ran like a dream. I need you all to deposit more please :thumbsup:
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Wow, hushda,

Glad you appreciate my deposits but since I don't play in poker rooms, I don't think you will be getting any of my money.

So are we to take it that you have decided that the casino games aren't rigged anymore since you are now winning? Interesting how that happens. :)
 

Keyser

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Location
USA
Right this guy was preety tight all game, Now explain these calls to me please ? I am convinced he can see cards lol :eek:
Remember it pays 3 places and look esp hand 1.
** Hand # 2314625922 starting - 2008-12-14 21:59:36
** Full-Table Freezeout[2386324]:Table 1 [Sit & Go Hold 'em] (300.00|600.00 NL - MTT) Real Money

thumperabbit sitting in seat 1 with 6992.50
SaabCabrio sitting in seat 6 with 1785.00
ThePyrate sitting in seat 7 with 6217.50
mdl82 sitting in seat 9 with 5005.00[Dealer]
thumperabbit ante'd - 20.00
SaabCabrio ante'd - 20.00
ThePyrate ante'd - 20.00
mdl82 ante'd - 20.00
thumperabbit posted the small blind - 150.00
SaabCabrio posted the big blind - 300.00

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Ac, As
ThePyrate folded
mdl82 raised to 1200.00
thumperabbit raised to 3300.00
SaabCabrio went all-in - 1465.00
mdl82 folded
SaabCabrio shows: 5h, 10h

** Dealing the flop: 5s, 9s, 4s

** Dealing the turn: 5d

** Dealing the river: Kd
SaabCabrio wins 4810.00 from the main pot

my exit to him
** Hand # 2314645022 starting - 2008-12-14 22:07:40
** Full-Table Freezeout[2386324]:Table 1 [Sit & Go Hold 'em] (600.00|1200.00 NL - MTT) Real Money

thumperabbit sitting in seat 1 with 4502.50[Dealer]
SaabCabrio sitting in seat 6 with 5815.00
ThePyrate sitting in seat 7 with 2872.50
mdl82 sitting in seat 9 with 6810.00
SaabCabrio ante'd - 45.00
ThePyrate ante'd - 45.00
mdl82 ante'd - 45.00
thumperabbit ante'd - 45.00
SaabCabrio posted the small blind - 300.00
ThePyrate posted the big blind - 600.00

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Ah, Kh
mdl82 folded
thumperabbit raised to 2400.00
SaabCabrio went all-in - 5470.00
ThePyrate folded
thumperabbit went all-in - 2057.50
SaabCabrio shows: 6s, As

** Dealing the flop: 7c, 10c, 5h

** Dealing the turn: 6d

** Dealing the river: 8d
SaabCabrio wins 9695.00 from the main pot

Lets just go over your questions and hands one more time.

1) You have posited, based on two hands, that your opponent can see your hole cards. However, based on your hand histories, your opponent was dominated in both hands and went all in BEFORE the flop. If he/she would have been able to see your cards, they surely would NOT have gone all in since they were dominated. Therefore, what you are really positing is that your opponent not only can see your hole cards, but also has knowledge of what the community cards will be BEFORE they are dealt!!!

2) The first hand shows that your opponent was the very short stack and went all in with suited cards. You can argue whether or not it was a bad move, but the fact is that it is a very common move in that situation. In that situation, you had an 82.1% chance of winning, and they had a 17.5% chance. (.4% chance to tie) That means he had almost a 1 in 5 chance of winning. Thats not exactly the worst bad beat ever.

2) The second hand shows that your opponent in a three handed game with a > 2 to 1 edge in chips, and dealt an A-6 suited. With only three players, thats a very strong hand. Not as strong as your A-K suited, but very strong nonetheless. It is entirely normal to go all in with that hand with only three players left. You have a 68.9% chance to win, while he/she has a 27.1% chacne to win (4% chance to tie). Now, they have a better than 1 in 4 chance to win. Not exactly the worst bad beat.

Even if you combine just those two hands, your opponent had a 1 in 20 chance to win. If you ever played Dungeons and Dragons, you would know that, yes, sometimes someone indeed rolls a 20 on the twenty sided die.

Sorry, but there is no evidence here that you played in a rigged game.

PS I calculated the odds for the hands here:
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patrina

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Location
Ontario, Canada
Theres loads of losing players on this thread. Thank god for you all :thumbsup: p.s i have just ran like a dream. I need you all to deposit more please :thumbsup:


You 'are' sheeting me, of course, no? Karma, karma karMA!!!!
Patrina
'Beotch':D
 
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