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agh VS Party Poker

Discussion in 'Poker Complaints' started by agh, Jul 25, 2015.

    Jul 25, 2015
  1. agh

    agh Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Poker professional
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Hello all,

    Cliffs:

    I have been scammed by PartyPoker for 9k. I was accused of chipdumping for that amount, and my entire account with 22 k was closed and seized. After several weeks of negotiating, they have agreed to release my remaining funds and close my account. They have acknowledged that all their evidence is circumstantial and not based on the gameplay (!), yet have not contacted me a single time to ask me to clarify. I know that they either know that I am innocent and are taking a shot here as they will be liable for letting that 9 k pass through with a stolen credit card, or that they are incompetent. I am asking this forum for help.

    In case you can be bothered, the overwhelming evidence:

    1. The actual gameplay:

    These are the 15 biggest winning hands I played against this player during that session. As he was the losing player, I have looked at MY ten biggest winning hands, as well as HIS five biggest winning hands. In total this player lost 9271 dollars to me in 308 hands (according to my PokerTracker). In no instance do I see what I have possibly done wrong. I will try and outline my reasoning here. Several players on 2+2 have looked through the hands. I am willing to do the same analysis for all hands, I have reviewed every hand over 20 bb and nothing is other than standard.

    I will begin by analysing the ten biggest winning hands for me, starting from the largest pot. So these hands are not in chronological order. All stats mentioned are at that point of the match, that is why they differ from hand to hand. I can only defend my play, not his:

    1. partypoker Hand #14645788860 begins at 2015/06/28 4:56 am
    Seat 1 (aligharaee) is the dealer
    aligharaee posts the small blind 10.00
    JorgenLer posts the big blind 20.00
    aligharaee raises to 40.00
    JorgenLer raises to 240.00
    aligharaee calls 200.00
    Flop: [9c 9s 5d]
    JorgenLer bets 239.50
    aligharaee calls 239.50
    Turn: [2c]
    JorgenLer bets 479.00
    aligharaee raises to 958.00
    JorgenLer raises to 1437.00
    aligharaee calls 479.00
    River: [Td]
    JorgenLer bets 2874.00
    aligharaee calls 2209.00
    665.00 returned to JorgenLer
    Action has ended
    JorgenLer shows [Ac 4d] One Pair, Nines
    aligharaee shows [2d 2s] Full House, Twos full of Nines
    JorgenLer wins 665.00
    aligharaee wins 8250.00

    Explanation:
    Jorgen is 3betting 51 %, but that is beside the point as I would defend 22 here against anything even 100 bbs deep, never mind 200 bbs deep. His cbet in 3b pot hands is 15/15, naturally I am always calling here. On turn I hit my fullhouse, minraise in case he can continue w any draw, he shoves I obviously call. Not sure where you find fault with this hand.

    2. ***** Hand History for Game 14645794620 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 23:14:44 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 2 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $3,397.50 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $8,465.50 USD )
    JorgenLer posts small blind [$10 USD].
    aligharaee posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Ah Jh ]
    JorgenLer raises [$30 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$120 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$440 USD]
    aligharaee is all-In [$8,325.50 USD]
    JorgenLer is all-In [$2,917.50 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, As, 3s ]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ Th ]
    JorgenLer shows [ Kc, Jc ]a pair of Aces.
    aligharaee shows [ Ah, Jh ]three of a kind, Aces.
    aligharaee wins $5,068 USD from the side pot 1 with three of a kind, Aces.
    aligharaee wins $6,794 USD from the main pot with three of a kind, Aces.

    Explanation: 300 bbs deep, by now I already now he is an aboslute maniac. The 3b is standard, he is opening 73 % and his fold to 3b is zero. His 4bet percentage at this point is 67, so the shove here is v easy as his fold to 4b percentage is 29. I seem to remember him calling off EXTREMELY LIGHT (as is evident by the hand). Not sure where you find fault with this hand.

    3. ***** Hand History for Game 14645790310 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 23:01:23 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 1 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $5,189.25 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $6,705.75 USD )
    aligharaee posts small blind [$10 USD].
    JorgenLer posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Jd 9c ]
    aligharaee calls [$10 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$60 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$60 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ Th, 8s, Ks ]
    JorgenLer bets [$119.25 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$119.25 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 5h ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee checks
    ** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
    JorgenLer bets [$397.50 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$1,920 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$1,522.50 USD]
    aligharaee shows [ Jd, 9c ]a straight, Seven to Jack.
    JorgenLer doesn't show [ Tc, Td ]three of a kind, Tens.
    aligharaee wins $4,237.50 USD from the main pot with a straight, Seven to Jack.

    Explanation: Super standard. At this point he is 3betting 52 % and I defend. He is cbetting 100 % of flops in 3b pots. I flop an open ended straight draw, call his cbet, decide to check turn for fear of a checkraise, hit my straight on the river. He bets, I shove, he calls w a set that he was slowplaying on the turn (as I thought, he was intending to checkraise). Standard hand.

    4. ***** Hand History for Game 14645774813 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:20:01 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 1 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $2,074 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $5,910 USD )
    aligharaee posts small blind [$10 USD].
    JorgenLer posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Qh 7d ]
    aligharaee raises [$30 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$100 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$80 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, 5s, 7s ]
    JorgenLer bets [$119.50 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$119.50 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee bets [$385 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$816.50 USD]
    aligharaee is all-In [$5,285.50 USD]
    JorgenLer is all-In [$1,018 USD]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 2h ]
    JorgenLer shows [ Jd, Jc ]two pairs, Jacks and Sevens.
    aligharaee shows [ Qh, 7d ]three of a kind, Sevens.
    aligharaee wins $3,836 USD from the side pot 1 with three of a kind, Sevens.
    aligharaee wins $4,147 USD from the main pot with three of a kind, Sevens.

    Explanation: Again, he is 3betting 52 % of hands. In Combonator, if you filter for the top 52 % of hands Q7o is in that list, which is how I determine what to defend when I am playing. I flop trips, so I am of course continuing. As he is cbetting 100 % of his 3b range on flop, I do not raise because his range is most likely fairly weak here. On turn he checks, I bet, he checkraises with an overpair and of course we get it in. From his side an ok play although a little thin, from my side 100 % standard.

    5. ***** Hand History for Game 14645770351 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:11:04 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 1 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $2,020 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $1,980 USD )
    aligharaee posts small blind [$10 USD].
    JorgenLer posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ As Ah ]
    aligharaee raises [$30 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$100 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$340 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$260 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 7s, 2d ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee bets [$265 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$265 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee checks
    ** Dealing River ** [ 9h ]
    JorgenLer bets [$1,289 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$1,289 USD]
    JorgenLer shows [ Kh, Jc ]a pair of Twos.
    aligharaee shows [ As, Ah ]two pairs, Aces and Twos.
    aligharaee wins $3,867 USD from the main pot with two pairs, Aces and Twos.

    Explanation: He 3bets KJ, of course I am 4betting aces here. I belive this is the first hand of the match so I have no stats. On a low board I make a small cbet to entice him to either cr or continue w overs. I have no reads and no idea if he is a reg or a fish. He calls the flop bet, after which we both have just over a pot sized bet left. Most draws cr there so I feel I am pretty protected and want him to bluf his floats on river which is why I check that turn, which also protects my against a lot of his 2 pair outs on a river. In other words, that check is v standard. On river he pot bets, I call. From my perspective (and everyone elses in the world) this feels super standard.

    6. ***** Hand History for Game 14645785452 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:48:31 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 2 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $10,052.25 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $1,870.75 USD )
    JorgenLer posts small blind [$10 USD].
    aligharaee posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ As Qs ]
    JorgenLer raises [$30 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$120 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$100 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, Kc, Qc ]
    aligharaee bets [$180 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$360 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$360 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$180 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
    aligharaee checks
    JorgenLer bets [$679.50 USD]
    aligharaee is all-In [$1,190.75 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$511.25 USD]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 4h ]
    JorgenLer shows [ Kd, Ts ]two pairs, Kings and Queens.
    aligharaee shows [ As, Qs ]three of a kind, Queens.
    aligharaee wins $3,740.50 USD from the main pot with three of a kind, Queens.

    Explanation: At this point, after 152 hands, he is up on me before I eventually turn it around in the next 155 hands. I 3bet AQss of course, he defends, I flop trips. I bcet, he raises, I pretty much have the best hand here so I raise again, he calls. Here I feel he must have either something good enough to bet after calling that last flop raise, or that he has floated and will bluff. By now, after 152 hands, it is pretty clear I am playing a very huge fish so standard logic doesnt always apply. It could be argued that betting this turn is a more optimal play but that might be only slightly. I check, he makes a bad bet w a decent hand, I of course shove, he calls. From my perspective 100 % standard I believe.

    7. ***** Hand History for Game 14645797238 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 23:22:44 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 1 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $1,553.33 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $11,561.46 USD )
    aligharaee posts small blind [$10 USD].
    JorgenLer posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Kc As ]
    aligharaee raises [$30 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$100 USD]
    aligharaee is all-In [$11,521.46 USD]
    JorgenLer is all-In [$1,433.33 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 9d, Qd, Kh ]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 8s ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 6s ]
    JorgenLer shows [ 7c, Ac ]high card Ace.
    aligharaee shows [ Kc, As ]a pair of Kings.
    aligharaee wins $10,008.13 USD from the side pot 1 with a pair of Kings.
    aligharaee wins $3,105.66 USD from the main pot with a pair of Kings.

    7. Super standard. By here we have played tons of hands, I know he will not fold almost anything after 3betting. He is 3betting over 50 %, I have AK, he has 75 bbs and I feel shoving is the highest EV play. Since his stack is fairly short I could be put in an awkward position if I 4bet small and he calls, seeing as I wont make a pair a fair amount of the time. So I believe a shove is the hghest EV play here and actually pretty standard here against this player with these stack sizes.

    8. ***** Hand History for Game 14645782935 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:40:24 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 2 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $3,850.20 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $6,089.80 USD )
    JorgenLer posts small blind [$10 USD].
    aligharaee posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Qh Js ]
    JorgenLer raises [$30 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$140 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$120 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, 6d, Jh ]
    aligharaee bets [$220 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$220 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
    aligharaee checks
    JorgenLer bets [$379.50 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$379.50 USD]
    ** Dealing River ** [ Ts ]
    aligharaee checks
    JorgenLer bets [$759 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$759 USD]
    JorgenLer shows [ 7c, 9h ]high card Jack.

    Explanation: Another standard hand. I get two broadways, 3bet his 73 % small blind open, knowing his fold to 3bet by now is zero (with a sample of 5 3bets from me). I flop my pair, and make standard cbet. He calls. On turn I feel a bit scared seeing as we started the hand 200 bbs deep. The 4 brings a few straights, a few draws that he might just raise since he is a fish (I want to play a big but not a huge pot here w a vulnerable hand). So I check, he bets, I call. On river, I again check since he has the lead and he could very well have air and bluff, and again he bets. He floated w garbage, turned a draw which he bet, and bluffed river. I cbet a top pair then check called two streets. Super standard play from me.

    9. ***** Hand History for Game 14645777505 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:27:27 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 1 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $3,099 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $6,870 USD )
    aligharaee posts small blind [$10 USD].
    JorgenLer posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ 9h Ts ]
    aligharaee calls [$10 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$60 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$60 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, Tc, Ks ]
    JorgenLer bets [$119.25 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$119.25 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 3c ]
    JorgenLer bets [$298.12 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$298.12 USD]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 9c ]
    JorgenLer bets [$745.30 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$745.30 USD]
    JorgenLer shows [ 5h, Kd ]a pair of Kings.
    aligharaee shows [ 9h, Ts ]two pairs, Tens and Nines.
    aligharaee wins $2,484.34 USD from the main pot with two pairs, Tens and Nines.

    Explanation: As he is 3betting so many hands (over 50 %), I am limping a fair range vs him. At this point, because of his high 3b, I am only playing 74 % from the small blind (am usually much higher), raising in 62 % and limping the rest. I limp, he raises my limp, I of course call. He cbets, I of course call with second pair. On turn he bets again, and me continuing here again is pretty standard. His range is super wide and there are a ton of straight, flush and air combos in his range. On river I catch a nine, so I of course call with my two pair. He has been cbetting his top pair bad kicker all the way since he is a pretty weak player. My play here is, again, 100 & standard.

    10. ***** Hand History for Game 14645772147 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:15:38 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 1 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $1,023.50 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $4,969.50 USD )
    aligharaee posts small blind [$10 USD].
    JorgenLer posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Qh 9h ]
    aligharaee raises [$30 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$20 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ Kh, 7h, 9c ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee bets [$59.25 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$118.50 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$59.25 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
    JorgenLer bets [$158 USD]
    aligharaee calls [$158 USD]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 2h ]
    JorgenLer bets [$316 USD]
    aligharaee is all-In [$4,653 USD]
    JorgenLer is all-In [$391 USD]
    JorgenLer shows [ 2s, Kc ]two pairs, Kings and Twos.

    Explanation: Quite early in the match, I open, he defends, I flop a monster w a pair and a flush draw. Standard cbet, he decides to cr w top pair (a bad play but he is a bad player) I call. On turn he continues, of course I call. On river he hits his two pair while I hit my flush, he bets; I of course shove with the second nuts, he calls with his 2 pair. Again, super standard from my perspective.

    These are the 5 largest hands that he won:

    1. ***** Hand History for Game 14645785047 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:47:15 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 2 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $6,484.15 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $3,440.85 USD )
    JorgenLer posts small blind [$10 USD].
    aligharaee posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Qc Kh ]
    JorgenLer raises [$30 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$120 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$440 USD]
    aligharaee is all-In [$3,300.85 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$2,960.85 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, Ac, Ah ]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
    JorgenLer shows [ 9c, As ]a full house, Aces full of Nines.
    aligharaee doesn't show [ Qc, Kh ]a pair of Aces.
    JorgenLer wins $6,880.70 USD from the main pot with a full house, Aces full of Nines.

    Explanation: This is the worst hand I played during the session I think, albeit not awful. He opens, I of course 3bet a very good hand,he 4 bets which he is doing with 57 (!!!!) % of his range. I am down a bit after being up, a but tilted and a bit impatient, but I know I am hugely ahead of his range and by now fater 146 hands I know he is a fish that can call off w very marginal hands. Only in rare case will I be in terrible shape here I figure. I am right, as he calls off w a very marginal a 9 off. And unfortunately, he wins the hand and I dont. Fairly standard hand but seeing as I win all the money in the end this hand probably doesnt matter.

    2. ***** Hand History for Game 14645783785 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:43:08 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 2 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $2,449.20 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $7,484.80 USD )
    JorgenLer posts small blind [$10 USD].
    aligharaee posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Ks As ]
    JorgenLer raises [$30 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$120 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$440 USD]
    aligharaee is all-In [$7,344.80 USD]
    JorgenLer is all-In [$1,969.20 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, 3s, 9c ]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 8s ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
    JorgenLer shows [ Th, Qd ]a straight, Eight to Queen.
    aligharaee shows [ Ks, As ]a pair of Aces.
    aligharaee wins $5,035.60 USD from the side pot 1 with a pair of Aces.
    JorgenLer wins $4,897.40 USD from the main pot with a straight, Eight to Queen.

    Explanation: From my perspective 100 % standard. I 3b AK ss, he 4bets like he does a lot (see above), I jam, he calls of superlight. This hand strengthens the argument for my KQ shove in the previous hand above, as you can see my read here is right.

    3. ***** Hand History for Game 14645783785 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:43:08 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 2 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $2,449.20 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $7,484.80 USD )
    JorgenLer posts small blind [$10 USD].
    aligharaee posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Ks As ]
    JorgenLer raises [$30 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$120 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$440 USD]
    aligharaee is all-In [$7,344.80 USD]
    JorgenLer is all-In [$1,969.20 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, 3s, 9c ]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 8s ]
    ** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
    JorgenLer shows [ Th, Qd ]a straight, Eight to Queen.
    aligharaee shows [ Ks, As ]a pair of Aces.
    aligharaee wins $5,035.60 USD from the side pot 1 with a pair of Aces.
    JorgenLer wins $4,897.40 USD from the main pot with a straight, Eight to Queen.

    Explanation: Super standard hand from both parties. He raises, I call. I flop a set, he flops a pair and flush draw, we get it in on the flop and he wins. No other comments needed.

    4. ***** Hand History for Game 14645784823 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:46:32 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 1 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $5,325.65 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $4,600.35 USD )
    aligharaee posts small blind [$10 USD].
    JorgenLer posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Jd 8d ]
    aligharaee raises [$30 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$100 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$240 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$160 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, 4d, 9d ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee bets [$279.50 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$279.50 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee bets [$600 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$600 USD]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee checks

    Explanation: I open, he 3bets, this time I small 4bet to take intitiative which I am doing because we are deep and he won´t 5 bet me here unless he has a monster. This gives me initiative on flop without having to face a cbet and is a standard play, especially against someone 3betting 51 % which he is doing here. I flop huge (straight + flush draw), and bet. He calls w his second pair. On turn I bet again, doing well against his entire range with my equity and huge draw, and he calls w his pair again which he is correct to do here, since he has also picked up a straight draw to with it. On river I miss all my outs and give up, he wins. 100 percent standard hand, no further comments needed.

    5. ***** Hand History for Game 14645784823 *****
    $10/$20 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, June 27, 22:46:32 EDT 2015
    Table Carson City (Real Money)
    Seat 1 is the button
    Total number of players : 2/2
    Seat 2: JorgenLer ( $5,325.65 USD )
    Seat 1: aligharaee ( $4,600.35 USD )
    aligharaee posts small blind [$10 USD].
    JorgenLer posts big blind [$20 USD].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to aligharaee [ Jd 8d ]
    aligharaee raises [$30 USD]
    JorgenLer raises [$100 USD]
    aligharaee raises [$240 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$160 USD]
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, 4d, 9d ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee bets [$279.50 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$279.50 USD]
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee bets [$600 USD]
    JorgenLer calls [$600 USD]
    ** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
    JorgenLer checks
    aligharaee checks

    Explanation: A standard hand with some turn play explanation needed. I open, he 3bets (by this point 53%), I call w q6ss. I flop 2 pair, and as he bets, I raise small, since he has so much air here (cbet after 3bet is still 100 %). As we are fairly deep, its late and I have finally won a bunch of money back by now (this is late into the match), I decide to check the K turn for a few different reasons. One, that could be a hand that puts him in front, and if he has a made hand I am either way ahead or way behind. If stacks were shallower I am betting here and getting it in, but I dont quite want to do that here. 2, if I check and do a very conservative pot control, he can well bluff a ton of rivers. My check is decent I believe. O turn w the jack of hearts I he checks. I felt that there isnt a ton that can call here but still, checking behind two pair against such a huge fish is a hard thing to do. He check calls having rivered the straight on the 3 flush board. Again, not an amazing hand at all.
     
  2. Jul 25, 2015
  3. agh

    agh Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Poker professional
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Part 2: adressing low volume on the site

    When I posted this, basically the main thing that was put forward against me was my low volume on the site (Having on PTR only 2414 tracked hands) However, I succesfully and easily debunk this, in fact proving I have a volume which without a doubt proves me to be a reg with this post in reply to a poster wanting me to clarify my low volume:

    "If you are familiar with the bumhunting heads-up ecosystem of Party, you would know this is completely incorrect. Out of the first 6 months of this year, I have sat at a single 10/20 hu table every day except perhaps 20. Over the last 600 days, I may have missed 30-40 nights. Party should be able to verify this. Somewhere around two and a half years ago I got staked in order to sit at these heads up tables and since then I have missed very few nights. Analyzing heads up volume should be about time sat at the table, not hands. PTRing anyone in that lobby bumhunting you will see very few hands played regardless of time sat, but when bumhunting heads up there is an incredible variance on peopel sat when you are playing, at best 1-2 k hands / month on a site, and on many occasions, much less.

    As you seem to be very unaware of this, let me run through the current Party Lobby 10/20 hu via a friends account so you get an idea of what it looks like when players oppponent select so we can put this to rest once and for all. This about half the lobby (total 14 players) currently:

    TenderMariah, longtime bumhuunter and Party reg, 12 279 hands since Nov 2011, playing even lass at about 270 hands / month:

    agh VS Party Poker: TenderMariah.jpg,Jul 25, 2015

    Babygirl23, 2498 hands since Dec 2014 (same pace as me roughly for that timeperiod):

    agh VS Party Poker: BabyGirl23.jpg,Jul 25, 2015

    Kranshan, for sure one the higher volume players, sits all day, and a well known Stars reg, 1567 hands in over a year, since April 2014, just over 100 hands / month:

    agh VS Party Poker: kranshan.jpg,Jul 25, 2015


    PamelaAnderson, whom I believe also plays regs, 9862 hands in over 2 years, since April of 2013, something like 350 hands / month:

    agh VS Party Poker: pamelaanderson.jpg,Jul 25, 2015

    Arnaud1999, a whopping 1575 hands in 5 years since 2010:

    agh VS Party Poker: arnaud1999.jpg,Jul 25, 2015

    Robelmeng, 1245 hands in over a year, since Aug 2014:

    (Cannot attach file due to limit, but see hands played / time above)

    Spellcheck7645, 1760 hands since Nov 2014, avergaing 195 hands / month:

    (Cannot attach file due to limit, but see hands played / time above)


    And there are several more so I could go on and on, this is the current lobby. "

    I also go through a bunch of other stuff including amount of hands of the highest volume regs on the site. Guys, I have spent hours upon hours on this. I am totally innocent and willing to do anything to prove myself. I am confident that the Party Security team is either being dishonest, incompetent or lacking the resources to handle this case effectively. They cite circumstantial evidence, but will not disclose any of it to let me defend it (as I did in the post above regarding volume of hands). I am very frustrated. Any help or input is appreciated.
     
  4. Jul 25, 2015
  5. syntynyt

    syntynyt kuollut

    Location:
    ~
    i just finished reading your thread You must register/login in order to see the link.
    you seem to be a genuine player like others noticed.
    i can't see much happening after this statement after your case was rechecked. Whilst you may be able to justify some of the gameplay, the circumstantial evidence we have in this situation is overwhelming and compels us reiterate the decision already communicated to you.
    they won't release any sort of that 'evidence', they are covered by the theory where you can be a fraudster and want to find out where youve been at fault so you can get better. quite large 3bets in a row behavior for many hands in a row screams loud that the guy was a fish or on tilt.

    you clearly need a mediator like this forum(if is taking care of poker cases), ecogra or other independent sources where they can provide their evidence. i don't trust them for the same scenario written there. dep using stolen cc - refund - avoiding to pay 9k eur from their pocket.
    right now if i browse few darknet sites, i could screenshot a bunch of recently developed methods of chip dumping that are being sold in 4 digits, among others that bypass poker programs protection against group play tactics. they are under siege every day from this pov. gl and if totally legit fight through what resources remained. but do smth with that sleep deprivation :nod:
     
    3 people like this.
  6. Jul 25, 2015
  7. osulle

    osulle Ueber Meister CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    life
    Location:
    Northern hemisphere
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jul 25, 2015
  9. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    The OP had already filed a PAB. As it happens PP is UK licensed so we -- meaning Bryan and I -- agreed that he should simply take his case directly to eCOGRA. Our experience with PP is that that's what they always say anyway and that will be doubly true since their UK licensing. This thread was posted _after_ we advised the OP how to proceed with his complaint.

    Since the OP has opted to post instead of seeking the appropriate mediation I think it only fair to ensure that Casinomeister not be used as a stick against PP. Thread title was "Seriously - scammed by PartyPoker for 9k, all eveidence on my side", changed to level the playing field.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Jul 25, 2015
  11. agh

    agh Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Poker professional
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Thank you, as Max wrote, that was my initial step. Hopefully I can do that once / if things with ECOGRA don´t pan out.

    I think the thread title change is fair Max, in my opinion the situation speaks for itself. Obviously they have the bias of not wanting to take a 9 k loss against them for someone that rakes much, much less than that per year.

    But regarding appropriate mediation; I did seek that through ECOGRA. That is the correct step right? Sorry, I am very new to all this and a bit confused as to which sequence events should take place in.

    Anybody that has been on 2+2 knows that some of the harshest and most critical posters in the world reside there. Even those that initially were convinced of my guilt in that thread (very few, but namely Monteroy and MX210) have turned around through me adressing them with evidence and statistics and are now leaning towards my side of the story. A mediator is defintiely what I need, I have contacted ECOGRA but have been led to believe that they are not very effective, so essentially I am waiting for them to let the case run its course and file my PAB. If they do turn out to be ffective I will definitely be very happy and let you guys know. I think I was told that it was ok to post here until that time, unless I misunderstood. I am innocent, any questions you have or evidence you need posted I will gladly to that here. All hands from the session were also made available in the 2+2 thread, I can do that here as well if need be.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Jul 25, 2015
  13. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    How would they be taking a loss? It's not like they sold goods to you or anything. As you know, the rake is pure profit (aside from operating expenses.)
     
  14. Jul 25, 2015
  15. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    As I've said, since PP is UK licensed you will need to go through eCOGRA for mediation. What happens after that remains to be seen but that step is not optional, at least as far as we are concerned.

    If you read the eCOGRA T&Cs regarding complaints you'll see that it says somewhere in there that you're expected not to post *anywhere* about your issue until they've done their business AND that having posted in advance of your complaint with them can disqualify you from receiving their assistance. At least that's how their Terms read last time I checked.

    When I replied to you regarding the PAB I told you that eCOGRA should be your next step. IMO you only do harm to your chances of success by not following the advice I gave you. But you are free to do as you see fit. There will be consequences insofar as any further involvement from us goes but them's the breaks.
     
  16. Jul 25, 2015
  17. agh

    agh Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Poker professional
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Hi. In the case of credit card fraud, it is Party Pokers responsibility to not let that through the system. If they do, they player that wins money from that account is always reimbursed. If that were not the case, that would lead to a whole host of problems (revers freerolls etc). The money is not even the primary thing here, mainly the permanent closure of my account.
     
  18. Jul 25, 2015
  19. agh

    agh Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Poker professional
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Hi Max I have PMed you, very sorry for this, I completely misunderstood and messed up, obviously the PAB is the best and most effective route to go. I didn´t realize I had messed things up and if there is any way of undoing it, please tell me, and if not, then sorry anyway.
     
  20. Jul 25, 2015
  21. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    There seems to be some misunderstanding. The facts are pretty simple IMO though I understand that they may not be obvious:
    • UK licensed operators are bound to a complaints process called ADR. PP is one of those so pointing you to eCOGRA was simply a matter of putting you on the right path since eCOGRA is (I'm pretty sure) their designated ADR.
    • eCOGRA has their own T&Cs for their complaints process which I'm suggesting you read and follow. AFAIK you've already violated those Terms but (a) I may be wrong and (b) it may not matter. I couldn't say either way. The eCOGRA people will certainly school you on that if and when you submit your issue to them.
    • the people at Party have never been very cooperative insofar as PABs go. For the most part they've made it clear that they don't want to participate in our process -- there have been momentary exceptions over the years but AFAICT it's pretty much company policy -- so no, we're not a very good place to turn for complaints concerning Party properties because there simply isn't much we can do to help.

    I trust that clears the air a little. As I've said several times now: your next stop should be eCOGRA. Until that happens you're barking up the wrong tree, IMO, because Party almost never responds to stuff on the forums and they almost never bow to public pressure once they've made and published a decision.
     
  22. Jul 25, 2015
  23. agh

    agh Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Poker professional
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Thank you a lot Max, ok, that does clear hings up a bit. I had posted on 2+2 before I ever had any contact with ECOGRA, and I didn´t see that in the fineprint. Everything has been done while I have been superstressed and I have missed details like this. Right now, my complaint is active at Ecogra. If they decide to dismiss it due to me posting, is there ANY place else to go with this since PP don+t cooperate with you guys? Am I officially done after that and will I just need to learn to live with this in your opinion?
     
  24. Jul 25, 2015
  25. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    IMO the short answer is "probably".

    The longer answer is that there may be a SLIM chance that we could get involved under the UKGC ADR rules but that has yet to be verified. TBH I'm not fully up to speed on this and your case -- if it went down that path -- would be a first for us. But I emphasize "SLIM": the UKGC is a work in progress so any activity of the type we are discussing is highly speculative and the end results are anyone's guess.

    Sorry to be so non-committal about all this but like I say, we're dealing with a developing situation here re the UKGC so I figure it's better to be straight-up about this and not give anyone false hope that wonderful things can be done.
     
  26. Jul 25, 2015
  27. agh

    agh Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Poker professional
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Thank you Max, at least there is a bit of hope left.

    As for anyone else, I am willing to answer any and all things regarding what is going on. I have posted everything I know, there are no surprises or hidden circumstances. What you read is what has happened up to this point, from their end and mine. They claim that they have circumstantial evidence (they seem to no longer have an issue with the gameplay itself, which should probably be the most important part of the case) which they refuse to present in any way. The only circumstantial evidence I can think of is:

    1. My volume (brought up in the 2+2 thread, debunked by myself thoroughly in that thread and my inital posts here)
    2. The fact that I withdrew a large sum close to my winnings the day after we played = natural imo, since that was my biggest win of the year and massively overinflated my roll on a site where you can only sit one 10/20 heads up table.
    3. The other players location (I have no idea of this)
    4. I cant think of anything else.

    So 2 and 3. That´s all there can be. Anyone else have any other ideas?
     
  28. Jul 25, 2015
  29. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    I hear what you're saying but I can only repeat what I've already said before: take it to eCOGRA, let them do their thing, cross the next bridge when you come to it. If I were you I'd do everything in my power to comply with their Terms. At this point anything else would be self-sabotage.
     
  30. Jul 26, 2015
  31. bigjohn

    bigjohn Meister Member MM PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Swimming Pool Serviceman
    Location:
    Northeast Coastal USA
    Yeah, I have an idea...stop posting about your issue. I think Max told you that, you said you understand, and your still going. Amazing!
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Jul 31, 2015
  33. agh

    agh Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Poker professional
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Just to update on proceedings, this is my latest email to PartyPoker with the help of an extremely reputable 2+2 poster:

    Hello Party,

    Firstly thanks for releasing just over $12K of my account balance, albeit with strange reasoning. Releasing these funds and keeping my account banned is the 3rd best outcome for me, I believe. It is behind “open with fully reinstated balance” and “closed with fully available balance for withdraw”. However, it seems to be one of the worst outcomes for Party poker, as it shows that either players can freeroll you (do fraud on your site and get previous balance when banned) or that you are freerolling players (if player wins then party might take the funds and ban account). Your outcome has caused alarm to both me and also my peers in the thread on 2+2 about it: You must register/login in order to see the link.

    You have shown me no evidence to suggest that I have been complicit in chip dumping. You are seizing over 9,000 EUR from me while providing me nothing but statements like “the circumstantial evidence we have in this situation is overwhelming”. I am a HU pro and play across many sites (Will Hill, Party, FTP, Stars, svenskaspel, & PKR). I can show you my Pokertracker records from those sites too. Unfortunately there is not enough HU play on most sites nowadays to support my income, so I spread out the action. I regularly sit on 20 tables across the 6 sites waiting for action. I hope that you can see from your reports that I am indeed sitting for many hours per day on Party, hoping that someone will sit against me. In the 2+2 thread, in posts 7 & 36, I actually breakdown how many hands most of the regs play on average (numbers are of course not exact as taken from PTR, but it shows a good visualization of the limited hands in higher stakes HU on Party)

    I completely understand that mistakes happen, we are human after all. It may have initially looked like a fraudulent chip dump to my account, but I would have hoped that after a full investigation that it would show that I was just lucky (or clearly unlucky now) to be this villain’s opponent. There are many threads on 2+2 showing that a site initially thought there was something fraudulent going on, but then later completely reversed their decision once they completed their full investigation after realizing their mistake:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    I implore you to please have someone with good experience in such cases to review my situation. I really hope that someone from senior management in operations/fraud is able to read this email and pass it on to the relevant person(s). I really want to get back to playing on Party, with a fully restored account balance, but I cannot let your site mistakenly steal nearly $10K USD from me. You firstly banned my account and seized all funds. You then revisited the case and kept me banned but with my initial balance of $12K available for withdrawal. I hope that you will now look at it again and correctly determine that I was not complicit in the fraud and restore my account & full balance.

    I understand that it will take a few days to look into this again.

    Thanks,

    Ali
     
  34. Jul 31, 2015
  35. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Have you filed a complaint yet? If so, why keep possibly tainting your case by continuing to post on various forums? Personally, I'd let the governing body take care of it and just sit back and let them do their job without any interference.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Aug 22, 2015
  37. agh

    agh Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Poker professional
    Location:
    Stockholm
    An update

    An update:

    An update:

    This, in my opinion, has expanded from an issue where I was trying to make a case to one where a major site is probably knowingly not releasing evidence of wrongdoing as they are aware it will not stand up and are making a business decision to sacrifice a player in order to save face / funds. Many posters on 2+2 are in agreement with me on this, and the support for my case on there is nearly unanimous.

    Summary:
    • I am a Heads Up semi-pro (have full time job) and play from 2-4 to 10-20 NLHE & PLO across several sites to support my income
    • I have played like this on my Party Poker account for ~3 years
    • I sat and played a standard session on the 27th June and won 4.5BIs (9K) from the account, JorgenLer
    • I requested a cashout of $7.5K, and left ~$14K on the account
    • Within a few days, my Party account was closed and I was later told that I was permanently banned with my full balance seized for receiving chip dumps from the above player
    • Within 24 they changed their mind and I was told that my account was still banned, but I was allowed to cashout my “starting” balance, before the session with JorgenLer of $12.2K
    • I provided much evidence to Party to show I was not complicit, some You must register/login in order to see the link. & You must register/login in order to see the link.. Party has provide me with nothing, and changed their stance several times
    • I ask Party to investigate once again on the 31st July: You must register/login in order to see the link.
    • I got an initial “forwarded to respective department” email and then You must register/login in order to see the link.a few days later confirming the same decision as before, however the Party Poker rep You must register/login in order to see the link. less than 24 hours later that the case was still being looked into!

    • Party were silent until I PMd the rep on the 17th August, and she responded: You must register/login in order to see the link.
    • After 72 hours I recieve another generic email with no evidence (see below)
    • Large posters in the internet poker thread seem to take my side and a lot have issues with how Party are handling the case

    Full Handhistories: You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Email summary from Party (until the 26th July):

    Stance changes:

    To

    I don’t understand how they can say that I received chip dumps (with supplying no evidence to me and changing their stance on it) to allowing me to cashout my starting balance, but seizing the winnings.

    Literally as I am writing this post, I get this from them:

    So that is where we stand.
     
  38. Aug 22, 2015
  39. RichyJ75

    RichyJ75 Silly Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dogsbody and personal servant to my kids
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I admit to not understanding the full scenario above, but surely if you are being accused of fraud (which is surely an illegal activity?) and being a criminal hence your money being withheld (presumably under proceeds of crime?!?!), the casino/poker room should be compelled to involve the authorities/police? Why do they see fit to act as a 'kangaroo court' and in effect, confiscate 'proceeds of crime' based on their incorrect findings? Do they keep hold of your money and if so, surely that is theft from you if won fairly?

    Has anyone had instances of police being involved after being accused of fraud and/or irregular play by a casino? If not, why not? Surely if it is an illegal activity, the legal authorities need to be involved?

    Just my thoughts!!

    Can (almost) understand it if accepted wagers contravene their t&c's (30% of deposit/bonus rule etc) resulting in funds being forfeited, but surely poker is different?
     
    1 person likes this.

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