Your move ?

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
Heres an intresting hand from earlier on, No info on players as only just joined that table,Its a 6 seater nl 10/20 cents,So yes can be a donkfest aswell :notworthy I post end of hand up later,WHATS YOUR MOVE HERE ?
** Hand # 2305646485 starting - 2008-12-09 11:52:32
** Osterley [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 NL - Cash Game) Real Money

thumperabbit sitting in seat 1 with $19.30
Kalabio11 sitting in seat 2 with $5.83
qjet sitting in seat 3 with $24.82
kristina41 sitting in seat 4 with $17.45
nojodas sitting in seat 5 with $18.47[Dealer]
joel1988 sitting in seat 6 with $28.35
joel1988 posted the small blind - $0.10
thumperabbit posted the big blind - $0.20

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: 2d, 6h
Kalabio11 folded
qjet folded
kristina41 called - $0.20
nojodas called - $0.20
joel1988 folded
thumperabbit checked

** Dealing the flop: Jh, 3d, 6d
thumperabbit checked
kristina41 checked
nojodas bet - $0.20
thumperabbit called - $0.20
kristina41 folded

** Dealing the turn: 6c
thumperabbit checked
nojodas bet - $1.10
thumperabbit raised to $2.20
nojodas raised to $7.70
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
Heres another. I love playing trichard as hes a very big fish and just loves his gutshot draws :thumbsup: Now i hate my call on turn, To be honest i knew i was in trouble with him leading out of postion after flat calling flop. I only called to try to fish him back,And after seeing that brick for me on river i logged straight out,As i knew i was being dragged down to his level with that terrible turn call. This is where i beleive is my strongest point at poker is,Having a break after a dumb move. It stops you tilting and i am now rareing to go back and hit him HARD :lolup: ** Hand # 2305966166 starting - 2008-12-09 16:42:25
** Dumb Struck [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 NL - Cash Game) Real Money

The_Tick sitting in seat 1 with $11.44
trichard sitting in seat 2 with $57.96
thumperabbit sitting in seat 3 with $40.96
synaaa sitting in seat 4 with $28.77
DeCraene sitting in seat 5 with $20.00
kangshifu sitting in seat 6 with $17.31[Dealer]
The_Tick posted the small blind - $0.10
trichard posted the big blind - $0.20

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Ac, Ad
thumperabbit raised to $0.80
synaaa folded
kangshifu folded
The_Tick folded
trichard called - $0.80

** Dealing the flop: 3c, 10h, Qh
trichard checked
thumperabbit bet - $1.20
trichard called - $1.20

** Dealing the turn: Kd
trichard bet - $3.20
thumperabbit called - $3.20

** Dealing the river: Kh
trichard bet - $7.60
thumperabbit folded
trichard mucks:
trichard wins $17.58 from the main pot
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
And heres a tip for you all, We all have wondered what the hell they went allin with at some point ? They muck cards so you dont get to see there hand. No worries just go in to your hand history and it will show there mucked hand like this 1 :thumbsup:
** Hand # 2305944152 starting - 2008-12-09 16:28:54
** Dumb Struck [Hold 'em] (0.10|0.20 NL - Cash Game) Real Money

The_Tick sitting in seat 1 with $10.41[Dealer]
trichard sitting in seat 2 with $57.52
thumperabbit sitting in seat 3 with $29.55
synaaa sitting in seat 4 with $23.05
wwddcc13 sitting in seat 5 with $14.18
kangshifu sitting in seat 6 with $18.90
trichard posted the small blind - $0.10
thumperabbit posted the big blind - $0.20

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Kh, Kc
synaaa folded
wwddcc13 called - $0.20
kangshifu folded
The_Tick called - $0.20
trichard folded
thumperabbit bet - $1.60
wwddcc13 raised to $6.20
The_Tick folded
thumperabbit raised to $20.00
wwddcc13 went all-in - $7.98

** Dealing the flop: Js, 2c, 4s

** Dealing the turn: 5s

** Dealing the river: 6h
thumperabbit shows: Kh, Kc
wwddcc13 mucks: Ah, Kd
thumperabbit wins $27.23 from the main pot
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
In the first hand push turn.

Your pushing allin on trips with 2 kicker ? Tell me why you think this ? I min reraised him on turn to represent strength and he repops me back ? Now the 6 doesnt worry him ? I put him on a6 . Please tell me more.
 

DogBoy001

Senior Member
webmeister
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Location
Great Southern Land
Your pushing allin on trips with 2 kicker ? Tell me why you think this ? I min reraised him on turn to represent strength and he repops me back ? Now the 6 doesnt worry him ? I put him on a6 . Please tell me more.

I'd say A6 is a good bet at that point, personally on the re-raise you'd have to give him the other 6 and abandon ship (unless you'd been playing at the table for a while and he was donkey kong)

Woooof
 

pokeraddict

Webmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2002
Location
Las Vegas
In the first one the flop is an easy fold IMO so you shouldn't have this bad decision on the turn. In the second one you fold or shove the turn. Calling there is bad. Make him commit. If you feel bad enough to call there with 4 outs if you are behind then you should fold. I don't guess you're asking about the third one.
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
In the first one the flop is an easy fold IMO so you shouldn't have this bad decision on the turn. In the second one you fold or shove the turn. Calling there is bad. Make him commit. If you feel bad enough to call there with 4 outs if you are behind then you should fold. I don't guess you're asking about the third one.

Yep your quite correct on that 1st point. And as i said about the second one,He loves his gutshot draws etc.. He dont bluff much either,As i said i got dragged down to his level on thinking wise,Which is why i took a break staraight after that hand. heres the rest of hand one
thumperabbit folded
nojodas mucks:
nojodas wins $10.73 from the main pot
I said in chat i had 62,He adds good fold. He dont say what he had tho. a6 is defo my bet.
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
In hand two what do we all put my gutshot freind on ? kq ? or even flush drawing ? or his famous gutshots lol
 

NextToYou

Experienced Member
webmeister
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Location
Europe
I could never ever drop trips there on turn at NL20. If he has 33 or A6 then so be it and it's reload time. Against his whole range you are good more than needed 4/10 times or so. And remember that sometimes it is totally OK to lose a buy-in if both have monster hands.

If you drop trips there for 80 big blinds you will get pushed around a ton and you will lose way too much in non-showdown pots. That kind of playing style is called "weak-tight" style of play, which is typical to micro-small stakes cash players and is very exploitable by skilled, very aggressive but in the same time thinking players, who understand the value of folding equity.

Now think of a situation that you told him that you folded 62 there to his re-raise on turn. Now let's say he's a skilled, thinking player (like me :cool:). Now he knows that you will drop trips (which is a HUGE hand) with bad kicker to a re-raise on turn. OK, let's play on with keeping this in mind...

Now think is it profitablefor him to re-raise you with any hand (no pair, no draw hands even) from now on on turn to your raise, if and when he knows that you will lay down even trips to that move? The answer is YES, it is very profitable for him to do that! Let say that 1/10 times about you have a slowplayed set of threes or sixes there and 9/10 times you hold that K6 or worse trips (or somethink like top pair wioth a good kicker) you will lay down to his re-raise. Now 1/10 times he will lose his invested $8.10 re-raising ANY hand on turn there when you call (as a bluff, because he knows you lay down too many hands to that move) and 9/10 times his bluff goes through and he wins your already invested $2.60 because you fold even a very big hand to a re-raise.

Now let's count which one of you makes more money out of each other with your style to play in the long run, shall we?

He makes 9*$2.60 + 1*(-$8.10) = +$15.30

You make 1*$8.10 - 9*(-$2.60) = -$15.30

And when you continue to play for years, after 100 hands he has made +$153 with his "crazy donkey bluffer" style and you have made -$153 with your "better safe than sorry" style. Pretty surprising numbers, huh?


I think I don't need to say much more? Those 1/10 and 9/10 times are very rough mathematical estimates of the times the hands described will occur (1/10 times you will have A6 or better hand which you'd push there instead of folding if you really put him only on A6 or better there).

I have just written a very brief introduction to a concept of folding equity in poker and how good players know how to use it as their advantage in the long run to profit, even though once in a while they get caught with a (stupid looking) bluff and they get berated here on the forums as donkeys. In the inside thay laugh with nice winnings in their back pocket.
 

catrina m

Dormant account
PABaccred
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Location
US of A
This is probably my last tourney post

What can you do but lose? I played conservative but not too tight but had to play.

There is always someone willing to call and pokerstars will oblige them. This isn't the only hand It happened on today, I am terrified of the river. At least a dozen times and never a win for me.

I am playing in the real world from now on, no software thank you very much. There is no style of play that will help you against software.

PokerStars Game #22780241716: Tournament #125328251, $4.00+$0.40
Hold'em Limit - Level VIII (300/600) - 2008/12/09 22:58:59 ET
Table '125328251 3' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: edu1782 (2780 in chips)
Seat 2: jp.dallas.81 (11962 in chips)
Seat 3: Mr. Toan (10465 in chips)
Seat 4: psychodeb (7970 in chips)
Seat 5: bigmichfan (3380 in chips)
Seat 6: docdec (4640 in chips)
Seat 7: catrinamel (1770 in chips)
Seat 8: rrraini70 (9225 in chips)
Seat 9: BLUEMAX8 (8413 in chips)
rrraini70: posts small blind 150
BLUEMAX8: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to catrinamel [As Qc]
edu1782: calls 300
jp.dallas.81: folds
Mr. Toan: raises 300 to 600
psychodeb: folds
bigmichfan: folds
docdec: folds
catrinamel: raises 300 to 900
rrraini70: folds
BLUEMAX8: folds
edu1782: calls 600
Mr. Toan: raises 300 to 1200
Betting is capped
catrinamel: calls 300
edu1782: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [6c 9c Qs]
edu1782: checks
Mr. Toan: bets 300
catrinamel: raises 270 to 570 and is all-in
edu1782: calls 570
Mr. Toan: raises 30 to 600
edu1782: calls 30
*** TURN *** [6c 9c Qs] [8s]
edu1782: bets 600
Mr. Toan: calls 600
*** RIVER *** [6c 9c Qs 8s] [5s]
edu1782: bets 380 and is all-in
Mr. Toan: calls 380
*** SHOW DOWN ***
edu1782: shows [Js Ts] (a flush, Queen high)
Mr. Toan: shows [Jc Jd] (a pair of Jacks)
edu1782 collected 2020 from side pot
catrinamel: shows [As Qc] (a pair of Queens)
edu1782 collected 5760 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7780 Main pot 5760. Side pot 2020. | Rake 0
Board [6c 9c Qs 8s 5s]
Seat 1: edu1782 showed [Js Ts] and won (7780) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 2: jp.dallas.81 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Mr. Toan showed [Jc Jd] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 4: psychodeb folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: bigmichfan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: docdec folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: catrinamel (button) showed [As Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 8: rrraini70 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: BLUEMAX8 (big blind) folded before Flop
 

zebedy

No!!!! Im Spartacus
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Location
Up a Tree
your always going to get those kind of beats .weather you play online or live, and unless you learn to except it youll just end up going crazy, ive lost count at the number of times someone chases a 2 outer or gutshot and hits,
it feels worse in a tournament because when it happens, your gone,

evberybody has bad runs, some longer than others, you just have to keep trying and the luck will turn,
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
I could never ever drop trips there on turn at NL20. If he has 33 or A6 then so be it and it's reload time. Against his whole range you are good more than needed 4/10 times or so. And remember that sometimes it is totally OK to lose a buy-in if both have monster hands.

If you drop trips there for 80 big blinds you will get pushed around a ton and you will lose way too much in non-showdown pots. That kind of playing style is called "weak-tight" style of play, which is typical to micro-small stakes cash players and is very exploitable by skilled, very aggressive but in the same time thinking players, who understand the value of folding equity.

Now think of a situation that you told him that you folded 62 there to his re-raise on turn. Now let's say he's a skilled, thinking player (like me :cool:). Now he knows that you will drop trips (which is a HUGE hand) with bad kicker to a re-raise on turn. OK, let's play on with keeping this in mind...

Now think is it profitablefor him to re-raise you with any hand (no pair, no draw hands even) from now on on turn to your raise, if and when he knows that you will lay down even trips to that move? The answer is YES, it is very profitable for him to do that! Let say that 1/10 times about you have a slowplayed set of threes or sixes there and 9/10 times you hold that K6 or worse trips (or somethink like top pair wioth a good kicker) you will lay down to his re-raise. Now 1/10 times he will lose his invested $8.10 re-raising ANY hand on turn there when you call (as a bluff, because he knows you lay down too many hands to that move) and 9/10 times his bluff goes through and he wins your already invested $2.60 because you fold even a very big hand to a re-raise.

Now let's count which one of you makes more money out of each other with your style to play in the long run, shall we?

He makes 9*$2.60 + 1*(-$8.10) = +$15.30

You make 1*$8.10 - 9*(-$2.60) = -$15.30

And when you continue to play for years, after 100 hands he has made +$153 with his "crazy donkey bluffer" style and you have made -$153 with your "better safe than sorry" style. Pretty surprising numbers, huh?


I think I don't need to say much more? Those 1/10 and 9/10 times are very rough mathematical estimates of the times the hands described will occur (1/10 times you will have A6 or better hand which you'd push there instead of folding if you really put him only on A6 or better there).

I have just written a very brief introduction to a concept of folding equity in poker and how good players know how to use it as their advantage in the long run to profit, even though once in a while they get caught with a (stupid looking) bluff and they get berated here on the forums as donkeys. In the inside thay laugh with nice winnings in their back pocket.

I be honest with you here,You have lost me lol I have another read later to see if it makes any more sense ? I will state this, I have played poker for 5 years or more now,And have been in profit every year. I am at moment grinding my bankroll back up and currently playing 25/50 now . And its going very well. Now if you can not fold 62 here,Then you are a losing player ? Dont give me that profit loss folding bit,But i truly thank you for your comments as this is what its for> A learning curve for us all. To many people say call and reload if you lose lol I am afraid if you cant read a game and make BIG laydowns then you are going to be broke very soon. Also out of intrest next to you,Are you one of them players who will move allin on ak preflop in cash all the time ? You sound it to me. I look forward to your reply mate .p.s I will reread your post later when my heads clear lol
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
And when you continue to play for years, after 100 hands he has made +$153 with his "crazy donkey bluffer" style and you have made -$153 with your "better safe than sorry" style. Pretty surprising numbers, huh?
These crazy bluffers dont last 100 hands tho,And also he wasnt a crazy bluffer lol. Remember i just joined the table and had no clue to his style,If after 20 hands or so and i knew if he was a crazy bluffer YES i would call instantly every time.Mate you got to read the full picture . Please dont take it personal.
 

NextToYou

Experienced Member
webmeister
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Location
Europe
With "crazy donkey bluffer style" in quotes I meant that the style might seem to be erratic for villains in the table in the beginning, but the player could be very thinking one actually. His aggressive style just might conceal that fact very well if he's good.

Yes, in 6-max game you should almost always move AK all-in pre-flop (and even AQ and worse sometimes in particular situations), because (again) if your range is only AA and KK for pre-flop all-in, your villains will take a note on this and you will then never get action from JJ for example when you actually have that AA or KK. But everything of course depends on table dynamics and opponent's styles etc. so it is not so straightforward.

I haven't played poker as long as you - discover it in July 2005, but almost from that beginning I have played winning game. I publish my profit/loss stats from the whole year. You can see them at this
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
in my blog. You might note that I don't play hold'em but omaha cash games instead nowadays, but earlier I have played hold'em so I am very familiar with that game form too too and know enough about it to beat regular cash games atleast on $200-$400 buy-in levels online.
 

pokeraddict

Webmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2002
Location
Las Vegas
I'm a nit and don't usually play holdem but here is my take:

Dealt to catrinamel [As Qc]
edu1782: calls 300
jp.dallas.81: folds
Mr. Toan: raises 300 to 600

You have an open limper that got raised. While you are in position you are likely in vs AQs/AK/QQ/KK/AA and the open limper is likely to have a small pair or middle suited connectors. AQo plays terrible into those hands. I have to sit back and wait a bit longer for a better place. If the open limper wasn't there then I might cold call him and hope. AQo is a terrible 3 way hand though IMO.
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
With "crazy donkey bluffer style" in quotes I meant that the style might seem to be erratic for villains in the table in the beginning, but the player could be very thinking one actually. His aggressive style just might conceal that fact very well if he's good.

Yes, in 6-max game you should almost always move AK all-in pre-flop (and even AQ and worse sometimes in particular situations), because (again) if your range is only AA and KK for pre-flop all-in, your villains will take a note on this and you will then never get action from JJ for example when you actually have that AA or KK. But everything of course depends on table dynamics and opponent's styles etc. so it is not so straightforward.

I haven't played poker as long as you - discover it in July 2005, but almost from that beginning I have played winning game. I publish my profit/loss stats from the whole year. You can see them at this
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
in my blog. You might note that I don't play hold'em but omaha cash games instead nowadays, but earlier I have played hold'em so I am very familiar with that game form too too and know enough about it to beat regular cash games atleast on $200-$400 buy-in levels online.

Are you winning gambling nexttoyou ? If so a very impressive graph there indeed :p
 

hushda24

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
uk
Heres a new hand, Your move and explain why please? stondale was very aggresive and had whole table calling %75 of time.
** Hand # 2308730043 starting - 2008-12-11 09:05:59
** Joliane 2 [Hold 'em] (0.25|0.50 NL - Cash Game) Real Money

thumperabbit sitting in seat 1 with 53.06
xorxe1971ggg sitting in seat 2 with 24.66[Dealer]
osramfan sitting in seat 3 with 56.48
Hajen79 sitting in seat 4 with 45.38
Bersa6 sitting in seat 5 with 58.88
stonedale sitting in seat 6 with 24.53
osramfan posted the small blind - 0.25
Hajen79 posted the big blind - 0.50

** Dealing cards to thumperabbit: Ad, 4d
Bersa6 folded
stonedale raised to 2.00
thumperabbit called - 2.00
xorxe1971ggg called - 2.00
osramfan called - 2.00
Hajen79 called - 2.00

** Dealing the flop: 2d, 4h, 6d
osramfan checked
Hajen79 checked
stonedale went all-in - 22.53
 
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