Casumo Have Fraudulently Stolen My Winnings

JordanR

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Location
London
So a couple of things I would say:
  1. You're getting feedback and answers on what's happening from Customer Service, not the person making the decision - anything they say around VPN/IP is probably quite simplified compared to why the decision has actually been made.
  2. It is a known strategy for bonus abusers/syndicates to use mobile data, dongles etc. to try and create multiple accounts and run through their bonuses time and time again.
It seems that you are either on the same mobile network as a known bonus abuser and are unlucky enough to have matched on a few other criteria which has got your account linked in with them, or you are one and are trying to claw back money through public pressure on twitter/casinomeister.

I'm not going to pass judgment off of one post, but if they're convinced that they've caught you out and eCogra have sided with them then it doesn't really look great for you. Casumo are supposedly pretty hot on digital fingerprinting so unlikely to get anything out of this if you have setup multiple accounts. You're obviously frustrated that you're not getting anywhere with the IP complaint, but I'd be hugely surprised if this is the only piece of information which the case rests on.
 

LoopsterAU

Experienced Member
MM
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Location
Melbourne, Australia
What you are referring to about shared IP's is common on almost every single mobile carrier and called CGNAT.

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Perhaps give them that link so they can understand a little more since they have 0 technical knowledge.

in a nutshell all mobile services get an ip address in the internal range 10.0.x.x and all route out through a common WAN IP address which is what the casino sees.
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
So a couple of things I would say:
  1. You're getting feedback and answers on what's happening from Customer Service, not the person making the decision - anything they say around VPN/IP is probably quite simplified compared to why the decision has actually been made.
  2. It is a known strategy for bonus abusers/syndicates to use mobile data, dongles etc. to try and create multiple accounts and run through their bonuses time and time again.
It seems that you are either on the same mobile network as a known bonus abuser and are unlucky enough to have matched on a few other criteria which has got your account linked in with them, or you are one and are trying to claw back money through public pressure on twitter/casinomeister.

I'm not going to pass judgment off of one post, but if they're convinced that they've caught you out and eCogra have sided with them then it doesn't really look great for you. Casumo are supposedly pretty hot on digital fingerprinting so unlikely to get anything out of this if you have setup multiple accounts. You're obviously frustrated that you're not getting anywhere with the IP complaint, but I'd be hugely surprised if this is the only piece of information which the case rests on.
Pretty much what thought as well, quite sure they have some more specific reasoning and investigation done if they are so sure to confiscate winnings and eCogra agrees them, but impossible to know what exactly are their findings, it's for sure that they don't give player exact detailed information as they don't want anything to spread public that these people who are abusers would get more info and get around one checkmark again.

It's impossible for us to know what have happened, in it's worse, (ike said above) you have been really unlucky with some connected accounts (many other factors than ip-address are checked, there are quite many programs to look digital footprints and connections). You could also file PAB here in CM (which then mean that you can't write anything about this issue before it's completed) and be quite sure that Max and PAB team use fair judgement has casino done right or wrong. Trying to use social media and forums to make them change their decision by threatening them is strategy which most surely don't work, internet is full of such stories and people who are interested enough of gambling to read them, usually don't fully buy one sided story without all details.

I would ask if PAB team would take this and review it with casino and wait that time. Then you get Yes or No but at least most of us here do trust that it's fair outcome.
 

Guntis

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Location
United kingdom
Online casinos use different fraud detection tools and methods including the use of custom build software in order to analyse their customers. I know, Casumo was bombarded by abusers in past, and maybe is still now.

Below is a set of parameters that casinos use in order to detect a sign of fraud (here are listed only some, but there are around 500 of them according to Seon.io)
  • Cookie hash
  • Browser hash
  • Unique device hash/identifier
  • The timezone of browser and IP
  • Operating system detection
  • UserAgent information
  • Private browsing detection
  • An operating system, browser languages
  • The screen size of device, browser, windows
  • Installed fonts and generated hash
  • Installed plugins and generated hash
  • Battery level
  • GPU information
  • Cursor, the scrolling behaviour
  • Browser features: flash, java etc.
  • Canvas device fingerprint
  • Audio fingerprint
  • WebRTC IPs
  • DNS: Geo + ISP
  • TCP/IP Fingerprint
  • Passive SSL/TLS handshake analysis
With the iOS SDK:
  • Unique device hash/identifier
  • Accessories information
  • Audio information
  • Battery information
  • CPU information
  • Advertising Identifier (ADID)
  • Device name
  • Device orientation
  • Unique Device Identifier (UDID)
  • iCloud ubiquity token
  • iOS version data
  • Jailbreak status
  • Emulator detection
  • Kernel information
  • Boot information
  • Network configuration
  • Pasteboard data
  • Memory information
  • Proximity sensor data
  • Local language
  • Local timezone
  • Screen brightness
  • Screen resolution
  • System uptime
  • Storage information
  • MAC address
  • Wifi SSID
  • TCP/IP Fingerprint
  • Passive SSL/TLS handshake analysis
With the Android SDK:
  • Unique device hash/identifier
  • Android ID
  • Android version data
  • Audio information
  • Battery information
  • Build information
  • Carrier information
  • CPU information
  • Device name
  • Storage information
  • Emulator detection
  • Root status
  • Kernel information
  • Boot information
  • Network configuration
  • Pasteboard data
  • Memory information
  • Proximity sensor data
  • Local language
  • Local timezone
  • Screen brightness
  • Screen resolution
  • System uptime
  • MAC address
  • Wifi SSID
  • TCP/IP Fingerprint
  • Passive SSL/TLS handshake analysis
The following is only a tip of the iceberg, but some might find it interesting to read:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.

There is also a nice bit of info in PDF eBooks at
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.
 

jlfarrar

Newbie member
PABinit
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Location
England
Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to respond to my post. I completely understand the scepticism regarding my real behaviour as you don't know me from Adam and it would be premature to take my side without hearing both sides of the argument. However, I have now read many stories regarding Casumo's rogue behaviour and I refuse to believe that they are not acting unethically in at least some of these cases. I was also hoping that the fact I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and take them to court goes some way to proving my integrity in this matter. Why would I contemplate such a move if I have indeed abused their bonuses in some way? It would be a clear cut case and would not be worth my time and expenses.

@LoopsterAU - I have already provided them with an abundance on info on this subject matter but they haven't even had the decency to respond to my findings. My mobile network carrier even proved I wasn't using a VPN and that I had no control over the IP I was designated.

@JordanR - I have seen the full case file submitted to eCOGRA by Casumo. They have literally confiscated my funds based on my supposed usage of a VPN and being linked to another player via IP. eCOGRA sided with Casumo (as expected - just look at their stats from the last year and how rarely they side with the customer) based purely on this information.

@Jono777 - I didn't break any rules relating to max bet, restricted games etc. This is simply due to being erroneously linked to another user and fabricated VPN usage.

I think what bugs me more than anything - and it is something that no one in here has addressed yet - is how they can get away with not reimbursing me with the winnings derived from my real funds? As already touched upon, when you have an active bonus, all winnings are split equally between "real" cash funds and bonus funds. So, let's say I deposited £100 and received a £100 bonus (£200 total funds), at all stages during my bonus wagering, my balance would be split equally between cash and bonus funds. So, winning £1000 from a £10 spin (£5 cash, £5 bonus) would result in winnings of £500 in cash and £500 in bonus funds. The entire amount is then converted to cash upon completion of wagering.

Their terms clearly state that in the event of them suspecting irregular behaviour, only the bonus funds portion of the balance would be confiscated. In the case file they submitted to eCOGRA, they explicitly state that this is the case, too. Yet they confiscated my entire balance, thus contravening their terms and what they told eCOGRA. How can they get away with blatantly lying to an ADR? I informed eCOGRA of this and they didn't even have the decency to acknowledge my correspondence. They clearly couldn't give a crap about finding a fair solution - what chance do regular gamblers have when ADRs aren't even willing to ask casinos to abide by their terms?

Are ADRs answerable to anybody? The UK Gambling Commission don't get involved in individual cases and have shown little interest in this case, so what options am I left with other than taking Casumo to court?
 
Last edited:

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
Online casinos use different fraud detection tools and methods including the use of custom build software in order to analyse their customers. I know, Casumo was bombarded by abusers in past, and maybe is still now.

Below is a set of parameters that casinos use in order to detect a sign of fraud (here are listed only some, but there are around 500 of them according to Seon.io)
  • Cookie hash
  • Browser hash
  • Unique device hash/identifier
  • The timezone of browser and IP
  • Operating system detection
  • UserAgent information
  • Private browsing detection
  • An operating system, browser languages
  • The screen size of device, browser, windows
  • Installed fonts and generated hash
  • Installed plugins and generated hash
  • Battery level
  • GPU information
  • Cursor, the scrolling behaviour
  • Browser features: flash, java etc.
  • Canvas device fingerprint
  • Audio fingerprint
  • WebRTC IPs
  • DNS: Geo + ISP
  • TCP/IP Fingerprint
  • Passive SSL/TLS handshake analysis
With the iOS SDK:
  • Unique device hash/identifier
  • Accessories information
  • Audio information
  • Battery information
  • CPU information
  • Advertising Identifier (ADID)
  • Device name
  • Device orientation
  • Unique Device Identifier (UDID)
  • iCloud ubiquity token
  • iOS version data
  • Jailbreak status
  • Emulator detection
  • Kernel information
  • Boot information
  • Network configuration
  • Pasteboard data
  • Memory information
  • Proximity sensor data
  • Local language
  • Local timezone
  • Screen brightness
  • Screen resolution
  • System uptime
  • Storage information
  • MAC address
  • Wifi SSID
  • TCP/IP Fingerprint
  • Passive SSL/TLS handshake analysis
With the Android SDK:
  • Unique device hash/identifier
  • Android ID
  • Android version data
  • Audio information
  • Battery information
  • Build information
  • Carrier information
  • CPU information
  • Device name
  • Storage information
  • Emulator detection
  • Root status
  • Kernel information
  • Boot information
  • Network configuration
  • Pasteboard data
  • Memory information
  • Proximity sensor data
  • Local language
  • Local timezone
  • Screen brightness
  • Screen resolution
  • System uptime
  • MAC address
  • Wifi SSID
  • TCP/IP Fingerprint
  • Passive SSL/TLS handshake analysis
The following is only a tip of the iceberg, but some might find it interesting to read:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.

There is also a nice bit of info in PDF eBooks at
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.
Yup, it's not usually only single ip-address which been used for other logins that they do judgements, especially when you can see what kind of ip it is. These tools are quite powerful and detect hell a lot of things where you can then make quite good decisions based on facts which combinations of monitored things are matching. Some combinations of matched details really gives you quite stong reason to suspect that something might not done in perfectly good faith.

But like said in previous post, impossible to say anything specific about this particular issue with available information. I'm quite sure that if they comply with PAB, OP would get fair judgement if there are some grounds to confiscate winnings or not. That would be cheaper way to start than small claim court.
 

jlfarrar

Newbie member
PABinit
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Location
England
Yup, it's not usually only single ip-address which been used for other logins that they do judgements, especially when you can see what kind of ip it is. These tools are quite powerful and detect hell a lot of things where you can then make quite good decisions based on facts which combinations of monitored things are matching. Some combinations of matched details really gives you quite stong reason to suspect that something might not done in perfectly good faith.

But like said in previous post, impossible to say anything specific about this particular issue with available information. I'm quite sure that if they comply with PAB, OP would get fair judgement if there are some grounds to confiscate winnings or not. That would be cheaper way to start than small claim court.
Thanks for your response. What are your thoughts regarding Casumo blatantly ignoring their own terms by not refunding me the winnings derived from my (real) cash balance? Surely they are legally obliged to honour what is set out in their T&Cs?
 

Guntis

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Location
United kingdom
Yup, it's not usually only single IP-address which been used for other logins that they do judgements, especially when you can see what kind of IP it is. These tools are quite powerful and detect hell a lot of things where you can then make quite good decisions based on facts which combinations of monitored things are matching. Some combinations of matched details really give you quite a stong reason to suspect that something might not be done in perfectly good faith.

But like said in a previous post, impossible to say anything specific about this particular issue with available information. I'm quite sure that if they comply with PAB, OP would get a fair judgement if there are some grounds to confiscate winnings or not. That would be a cheaper way to start than a small claim court.
Yeah, this is a crazy amount of info that casinos hold about their players. But still, nowadays experienced casino abusers use tricks which casinos aren't able to detect. A new standalone casino with poor management and terms&conditions can easily be destroyed.

I'm not saying OP is abuser but often in a similar situation - a real abuser would bluff and go to the end. For Casumo such case is not the 1st and definitely won't be the last. To beat Casumo in court would be super difficult, I guess. :D
 
Last edited:

ZoeP

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Location
ws10
Yeah, this is a crazy amount of info that casinos hold about their players. But still, nowadays experienced casino abusers use tricks which casinos aren't able to detect. A new standalone casino with poor management and terms&conditions can easily be destroyed.

I'm not saying OP is abuser but often in a similar situation - an abuser will be bluffing and going to the end. For Casumo such case is not the 1st and definitely won't be the last. To beat Casumo in court would be super difficult, I guess. :D
And with all that data how easy is it to manipulate the players and their styles of play?

They are already doing it with the Crap the UKGC is implementing.

They know more about us than our own families.

This is all getting to a point where its not about gambling/slotting anymore but, how to control and manipulate the players/people.

I'd like to know how many of you think online slotting has gotten worse to 5 years ago?

I know it has but how many of you are willing to admit it.
 

Guntis

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Location
United kingdom
Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to respond to my post. I completely understand the scepticism regarding my real behaviour as you don't know me from Adam and it would be premature to take my side without hearing both sides of the argument. However, I have now read many stories regarding Casumo's rogue behaviour and I refuse to believe that they are not acting unethically in at least some of these cases. I was also hoping that the fact I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and take them to court goes some way to proving my integrity in this matter. Why would I contemplate such a move if I have indeed abused their bonuses in some way? It would be a clear cut case and would not be worth my time and expenses.

@LoopsterAU - I have already provided them with an abundance on info on this subject matter but they haven't even had the decency to respond to my findings. My mobile network carrier even proved I wasn't using a VPN and that I had no control over the IP I was designated.

@JordanR - I have seen the full case file submitted to eCOGRA by Casumo. They have literally confiscated my funds based on my supposed usage of a VPN and being linked to another player via IP. eCOGRA sided with Casumo (as expected - just look at their stats from the last year and how rarely they side with the customer) based purely on this information.

@Jono777 - I didn't break any rules relating to max bet, restricted games etc. This is simply due to being erroneously linked to another user and fabricated VPN usage.

I think what bugs me more than anything - and it is something that no one in here has addressed yet - is how they can get away with not reimbursing me with the winnings derived from my real funds? As already touched upon, when you have an active bonus, all winnings are split equally between "real" cash funds and bonus funds. So, let's say I deposited £100 and received a £100 bonus (£200 total funds), at all stages during my bonus wagering, my balance would be split equally between cash and bonus funds. So, winning £1000 from a £10 spin (£5 cash, £5 bonus) would result in winnings of £500 in cash and £500 in bonus funds. The entire amount is then converted to cash upon completion of wagering.

Their terms clearly state that in the event of them suspecting irregular behaviour, only the bonus funds portion of the balance would be confiscated. In the case file they submitted to eCOGRA, they explicitly state that this is the case, too. Yet they confiscated my entire balance, thus contravening their terms and what they told eCOGRA. How can they get away with blatantly lying to an ADR? I informed eCOGRA of this and they didn't even have the decency to acknowledge my correspondence. They clearly couldn't give a crap about finding a fair solution - what chance do regular gamblers have when ADRs aren't even willing to ask casinos to abide by their terms?

Are ADRs answerable to anybody? The UK Gambling Commission don't get involved in individual cases and have shown little interest in this case, so what options am I left with other than taking Casumo to court?
You can try no win no fee gambling solicitor services, but even they say that most cases fail.
 
Last edited:

Guntis

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Location
United kingdom
1. And with all that data how easy is it to manipulate the players and their styles of play?

2. They are already doing it with the Crap the UKGC is implementing.

3. They know more about us than our own families.

4. This is all getting to a point where it's not about gambling/slotting anymore but, how to control and manipulate the players/people.

5. I'd like to know how many of you think online slotting has gotten worse to 5 years ago?

6. I know it has but how many of you are willing to admit it.
  1. Yeah, if they would want to fuck a player it wouldn't take a much of an effort for them.
  2. UKGC does a crap but their crap makes me stop with online gambling for good.
  3. Sure, and not only online casinos but pretty much all online services especially government-related ones. They know more about us then we know.
  4. "Who owns the information, owns the world!" Total control! I believe in that.
  5. Me.
  6. Me. Those who don't admit are either brainwashed, blind or half asleep. :D
 

ZoeP

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Location
ws10
  1. Yeah, if they would want to fuck a player it wouldn't take a much of an effort for them.
  2. UKGC does a crap but their crap makes me stop with online gambling for good.
  3. Sure, and not only online casinos but pretty much all online services especially government-related ones. They know more about us then we know.
  4. "Who owns the information, owns the world!" Total control! I believe in that.
  5. Me.
  6. Me. Those who don't admit are either brainwashed, blind or half asleep. :D

The real Question is "Who owns all the debt of our Countries?" Because that's who our so called leaders Pander too.
 

neilw

Moderator of Live Games forum
webmeister
CAG
MM
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Location
Kent - England
Are ADRs answerable to anybody? The UK Gambling Commission don't get involved in individual cases and have shown little interest in this case, so what options am I left with other than taking Casumo to court?
If the OP chooses the court option, where would he take them to court? Would he use the small claims court in the Uk, or would he have to go to Malta and do it there as they are a registered Maltese company?

The OP should use the PAB first before spending any money on court cases. Max can see the evidence and the reasons for the denial. There always seems to be some detail that an OP omits that ends up having a material bearing on the case, the only way to be sure is to PAB.
 

jlfarrar

Newbie member
PABinit
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Location
England
If the OP chooses the court option, where would he take them to court? Would he use the small claims court in the Uk, or would he have to go to Malta and do it there as they are a registered Maltese company?

The OP should use the PAB first before spending any money on court cases. Max can see the evidence and the reasons for the denial. There always seems to be some detail that an OP omits that ends up having a material bearing on the case, the only way to be sure is to PAB.
Would you recommend that I deleted this thread and pursue a PAB then? Or is it safe to keep this thread running? I don't want to jeopardise my case by discussing this on a forum...
 

wesleyhoulihan

Newbie member
PABnoaccred
Joined
Sep 17, 2018
Location
UK
I lost £4k to bcasino a couple of years back. They closed my account and confiscated the funds giving the reason that they requested ID docs from me and I didn't provide them within 7 days so by their t&Cs they had the right to close my account. I went to eCogra about it and their response basically said 'never mind that...it was subsequently pointed out that you were marked as colluding due to your IP address'. I thought it was all a bit of a joke tbh, as if I could collude by playing slots. Stupidly though I had logged in from my work laptop which was probably through a VPN so they found something to get me with. I didn't bother taking it any further even though my research after the fact leads me to believe that bcasino are a very dodgy outfit.

On another note, Casumo have been holding £15k from me since February due to SOW.

The joys of gambling eh.
 

dionysus

Contest Manager
Staff member
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
Would you recommend that I deleted this thread and pursue a PAB then? Or is it safe to keep this thread running? I don't want to jeopardise my case by discussing this on a forum...
Generally speaking, once made, threads arent binned; but if you do initiate a PAB at that point, ar per the conditions, you arent to discuss the case as it's being pursued :thumbsup:
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
Yeah, this is a crazy amount of info that casinos hold about their players. But still, nowadays experienced casino abusers use tricks which casinos aren't able to detect. A new standalone casino with poor management and terms&conditions can easily be destroyed.

I'm not saying OP is abuser but often in a similar situation - a real abuser would bluff and go to the end. For Casumo such case is not the 1st and definitely won't be the last. To beat Casumo in court would be super difficult, I guess. :D
Yes and with this days technology, if you have some talented BI people you can make so much more money if somebody can read and use that data to optimize your NGR by using exact right type of bonuses to right players which maximize their deposits and amount you hold from them.

There are huge differences in different operators, where somebody just going by gut feelings and tries something XYZ and another one can forecast pretty much what's the outcome when you have been in business even little while to be able to profile your player base.

Same of course goes to catching abusers and make their life hard, but bigger possibilities i see in that side how to maximize your profit and keep players happy at same time, abusers are smaller group anyway and you just have to admit that nothing is 100% water proof but to get near of it as possible.

To this one can pretty much agree as well, it's really wanted and have huge value when you are able to understand and use it :)

"Who owns the information, owns the world!" Total control! I believe in that."
 

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