Casino Del Rio STOLE $1050.00 from me!

[f_dupp]

I made a $100 deposit at casino del rio. They gave me a $100 bonus whick I didnt ask for. Apparently the bonus is their "lisence to steal". After Playing jacks or better and winning $1050 I tried to cash out. NO DEAL. They told me the Jacks or Better game doesnt apply toward wagering requirements for the B.S. bonus I never asked for. In short, these people are theives. DO NOT PLAY THERE. Its a no-win for the player.

 

[santo]

You could just play a game that does meet the WR and then cash out.

If you don't decline the bonus specifically, by playing with it you're accepting the terms of it...

Not a no-win if you read the T&C..

 

[f_dupp]

I do not usually read the fine print of a bonus I am not pursuing. I went to their casino to play Jacks or better on playtechs software, thats the only reason I went there. In no way would I knowingly accept a bonus which negates the play of my favorite game. This bonus appeared automatically when I deposited. I never applied or asked for it, had the terms appeared with it with an opportunity to decline the bonus, only then would I find this justifiable. I contacted the casino to find out why I could not cash out the $1050, and was told I had not wagered enough, not that I might as well be in "play for fun" mode on the Jacks or Better machine. So I returned to the same game trying to meet these requirements not knowing that was impossible. After talking to them the machine played totally different as if they had flipped the "win/lose" switch. It immediately had $850 of the money back. I just wanted out of their casino at this point and tried again to cash out the last $200. Again I was told I had not wagered enough. I went to the comp points page and did the math to find out I had made $14,000 in wagers. Thinking that wasnt enough for them made me so disgusted that I threw $200 at their keno machine and bailed. Later that evening with a balance of $00.00 I received an email explaining to me that I can pay to play that particular game but that it will not pay me. I WAS RIPPED OF BY CASINO DEL RIO. Its official.

 

[santo]

I think this discussion was had not to long ago on this board..

Are you saying you didn't notice that this $100 turned up, and wonder where it came from, and what terms applied to it?

Say you were playing with your $200, dropped to $90 then hit a royal flush. If you hadn't had the bonus you'd have zeroed out...

Not saying that did happen, but that's why they have to enforce the T&C.

 

[f_dupp]

How could I not notice the bonus when it causes a popup that makes me click it to continue? And I have encountered these bonuses at many playtech casinos, some were so big that I did read the disclaimers. They all appeared the same. None of them involved my game, so I could give a shit right? I dont enjoy reading disclaimers and its the last thing a gambling addict wants to do in a casino. I admit that only after receiving their email finally stating why I couldnt cash out was because I was playing Jacks or Better, did I read the disclaimer. When I had the credit in my account and wanted to cash it out, I was told by the computer and on the phone I hadnt wagered enough. And this was after being put on hold several times, being misinformed that my user name was incorrect. And being told "I dont know" as an answer to a half dozen questions, all by what sounded like a 16 year old girl. No offense but she should be babysitting, not running casinos. If on the phone I was told it was due to me playing jacks or better I couldve at least tried to get my deposit back. The game was never going to pay out, but still took money. Its that simple. As far as me dropping below my deposit and coming back for a big win, your right santo, that is exactly what happened. I probably only won because the whole program is a scam based on their bonus. I was only allowed to beat a rigged machine because the program knew it would be negated by the bonus. Maybe its planned out that a player win until the wagering requirements have nearly been met to keep them coming back thinking they could win. But thats getting into a whole new thread right santo?

 

[f_dupp]

I just got on Del Rios websites t&c page and re-read their disclaimer and here it is word for word : Additional First, Second and Third Deposit Bonus Conditions:

1) To claim the above 2nd and 3rd deposit bonuses, both your deposits must be made within one week of your initial deposit.

2) The Bonuses will be given only once per household and/or per account, as per our terms of use . If a second account is opened it will be closed and all bonuses and winnings may be canceled.

3) Bets placed on Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Jacks of Better, and Sic Bo do not count toward the wager requirement.


Jacks OF Better! No shit, thats what it says. I copied and pasted this. OF Better, how long has this typo been there? Did they make up the rule yesterday when I wanted to cash out. I also just reread the other playtech casinos terms that I play at and they dont list Jacks of Better as a game you cant play with the bonus, only this one does. Other than that the games listed are the exact same. Could it be that this casino can so ill afford a lousy $1000 winner that they would dream up a new rule just to avoid paying him? I would like to add that the conditions pasted above are the fine print of the fine print. On the top of the terms and conditions page, listed first are the terms of the exact bonus I received. It makes no reference to a game called Jacks of Better. It immediately begins listing terms for other bonuses, leading a person to believe that may be the end of the list of terms for that particular bonus. Its not until a person scrolls down past the terms of two other bonuses that they see the ADDITIONAL terms that I pasted above. If they want me to read the fine print, then the least they could is read it themselves. Then go back and fix the spelling. Technically I didnt break the rules of any bonus. I did not play Jacks of Better. But I did "win" over $1000 on the game called Jacks or Better. Link Removed (Old/Invalid)
click on promotions, and grab your shovel. The shit is thick.

 

[jinnia]

Ok, am I reading the above post correctly?

"Del Rio found guilty of non-payment due to typographical error?"

that's a new one .. LOL

 

[mrracetrack]

F_dupp,

Basically, YOU F-dupp, by not reading all the T&C.

Yes, these casinos will make a big issue about petty shit, and it is frustrating to try to deal with some of the morons that are employed in customer service positions.

Bottom line here, is that the game you played (regardless of how they spelled it, we all know what they meant)is currently listed as a non playable game as far as WR are concerned.

What you need to do, is to try to find out if it was listed as a T&C prior to you playing.

If it was NOT, then you have a valid beef.

Try looking on the Wayback machine, or maybe someone copied the T&C.

 

[f_dupp]

No , you are obviously not reading it correctly. But thanks for trying.

 

[glodge]

Try going to the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and seeing if they have a cache of the web page.
Else try and see if google has it cached.

Other than that, it's always best to take a copy of the T&C's before playing anywhere, especially so if playing a bonus.

As far as the Jacks of Better, this is just a typo & I think you'll find in most T&C's that anything like this has a clause entry.

 

[tim5ny]

Lies! Lies! Lies! Welcome to the world of online gambling! Having any fun yet?

 

[f_dupp]

I went to google and did as glodge suggested with this result.

In the interest of fair gaming in order to cash out any amount of money you must wager at least (12) times your bonus. If you withdraw before having reached the minimum wagering requirements, your bonus and winnings will be void.

For Example:
Deposit $75 receive $75, minimum wager is $900
Deposit $100 receive $100, minimum wager is $1,200

This Bonus will be given only once per household and/or per account, as per our terms of use . If a second account is opened it will be closed and all bonuses and winnings may be canceled.

Bets placed on Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, and Sic Bo do not count toward the wager requirement.

Unless otherwise stated, this offer cannot be combined with any other offers or promotions offered by Casino Del Rio. The Casino reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of this offer at any time and it is your responsibility to periodically check here for changes and updates

Hmmm that MUST be a new rule. These terms may be veiwed at: To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url: Link Removed (invalid URL)


Good call glodge!

 

[f_dupp]

I also found this.

Instant 1st Deposit Bonus up to $100!
When you become a Real Money Player, we'll match your first deposit with a 100% Bonus up to $100 in Free Cash!

TERMS

1. You must deposit at least $20 to qualify for this bonus.

2. In the interest of fair gaming player must wager fifteen (15) times the sum of the deposit plus the bonus before any withdrawals will be processed. For example: Deposit $100, get a $100 bonus, wager at least $3,000($200 x 15) before cashing out.

3. Bets placed on Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, and Sic Bo do not count toward the wager requirement.


View general Terms of Use

Can you read this Jinnia? No Jacks of Better.
If not try reading it here. Link Removed (invalid URL)

It appears this casino is a bonus abuser. And they go around treating me like the Dutch? I feel I speak for all the Dutch when I say that this casino should be on Casinomieister's Reputable Casino List NOT

 

[jinnia]

lets see f__dupp .... yep, I am reading it.

I commented on the Jacks OF Better, for you emphasized on that in earlier post. I just thought it be funny to argue a case from a typographical error.

Seriously now.. seems as if you have proof of their Rules changing AFTER you requested cash out. So go after them.

Good Luck!

 

[jinnia]

My goodness, I read over the rules to Del Rio ... have to play 6x's your deposit, then get bonus, and play 12x's that before cashing out?

And no, no mention of Jacks or/of Better as a game not to play.

And you f__dupp, complied with those rules and they are giving you crap over a withdrawal request?

I say you have a true gripe with them, so go after them. And I wish you luck!!

 

[f_dupp]

I didnt even hit cache on this one, Im assuming its recent.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I also looked at their sister casino. Casino Tropez doesnt list Jacks of Better as a game you cant play with the bonus. Not even after yesterday.
I am not going after the money. They obviously dont have any. They probably spent mine on making a new terms and conditions page yesterday. I will send them more money so they can go back and fix the spelling. Could this be more pathetic? These people jeopordize the integrity of A $100 billion dollar a year industry. $1000.00 will not cover the expenses. If I were a real casino Id worry less about bonus abuse and more about casinos such as Del Rio, ruining my business.

 

[f_dupp]

In the email I received from Latisha Ralf it states this:
Please note that according to the terms and
<,conditions of the first deposit bonus bets pleased in Craps, Roulettes,
<,Baccarat, Sic-Bo, and Jacks or Better (Including jacks or better 4 line) do
<,not count towards the wagering requirements.

"Including jacks or better 4 line" It doesnt say that ANYWHERE in yesterdays or todays terms. They will just constantly update to include any games that a player may actually win on. As it just so happens I was playing that game also. In my 12 years of being able to gamble legally
I have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars to casinos, often times dumping 4 to 6 thousand in a weekend. But I can honestly say this is the most disheartening loss to date. I have left land based casinos feeling awfully stupid, but I never felt cheated like I always do online. The house already has an edge, yet they still rig their games. When thats not enough they call you a bonus abuser. When all this doesnt work, they change the rules of the game while your playing it. All this leaves me with an overall 0% chance of winning. If there was only a side bet in Jacks or Better that allowed me to bet on whether or not the dealer would have a face card on the double up feature. Now theres a safe bet.

 

[f_dupp]

As if more proof were needed I just found this on

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Casino del Rio has offers a 100% bonus for new players, up to $100. The bonus is given after playing through the deposit at least six times. Roulette, craps, sic bo, and baccarat are not allowed to fullfill the play requirement. Personally I deposited the full $100. After I fullfilled the play requirement I was given the bonus about 12 hours later, without having to ask. I then played some more, it was my goal to get up to $400 or go bust trying. I was playing 50 cent 4-play Jacks or Better video poker, doubling up often. In the end it all came down to a $240 double up bet, which I lost, so I again lost everything trying.

You can find this at:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[jpm]

Oh for God's sake, haven't we been thru this all before? (Yes we have, look back about a month. Santo was right on the mark) You screwed up in two ways here. First you did not read the terms & conditions at the casino before you started playing there. Here's a copy from their promotions page:

Additional First, Second and Third Deposit Bonus Conditions:

1) To claim the above 2nd and 3rd deposit bonuses, both your deposits must be made within one week of your initial deposit.

2) The Bonuses will be given only once per household and/or per account, as per our terms of use . If a second account is opened it will be closed and all bonuses and winnings may be canceled.

3) Bets placed on Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Jacks of Better, and Sic Bo do not count toward the wager requirement.

4) The casino reserves the right to review transaction records and logs from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. If, upon such review, it appears that player/s are participating in strategies that the casino in its sole discretion deems to be abusive, the casino reserves the right to revoke the entitlement of such player to the promotion.

5) In the event of a dispute, all decisions made by the casino will be final.

6) The Casino reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of this offer at any time and it is your responsibility to periodically check here for changes and updates.

Numbers 3 & 6 are the pertinent ones to this discussion. You played JoB, whether they spelled OR wrong or not, you know what it means, so that excuse doesn't fly. So your wagering DOES NOT COUNT. And number 6 is pretty self-explanatory..."it is your responsibility to periodically check here for changes and updates." You didn't do this.

Yes, you got the bonus automatically when you deposited. AT THAT POINT you should have either called or checked the web site BEFORE you played anything to find out what the T&C are. You're not a rookie by your own admission, so you can't use that for an excuse. Any other T&C's you found thru google or affiliate websites (like the playcasinodelrio.com you mentioned) or wizard of odds DON'T COUNT. The ONLY one that matters is the one on the casino's website at the time you played. Since you didn't bother to check it, then you are stuck with whatever it says now.

They didn't rip you off, YOU screwed yourself by not knowing the rules of the game before you decided to play. Its a tough lesson, but one I'm sure you won't soon forget. And I'll bet money that you will always check the T&C before you start playing at a new casino again.

Sorry if this is harsh, but I'm so tired of reading how 'x casino ripped me off because I didn't know the rules and hit a jackpot' that I could puke.

 

[f_dupp]

How fucking dare you? I point out an instance of probable online fraud on a watchdog website, and now your gonna bust my balls? That does seem a BIT harsh. And if you are so tired of reading how "x casino ripped me off" I can tell you this. YOU ARE IN THE WRONG FUCKING PLACE. Maybe your simply in the wrong forum. If I were you, I would "check for changes and updates", cause

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

has moved. Then drag your tired ass elsewhere. As far as you saying that I cannot use my being a rookie as an excuse?! Excuse for what you asshole? Am I in the wrong?
I opened my first online account at Golden Palace about 4 weeks ago. I have been gambling at real casinos for 12 years, and have NEVER had any hassles. In fact they treat me wonderfully, the last thing I have learned from my gambling experience is to expect to be defrauded by the casino. As for me calling the casino, in case your only read half the thread, I repeat, I did call them. The person on the phone did not know the t&c's. If she did, then she purposely misinformed me. The were obviously very new rules. Very new. But like you said, I should "periodically check for changes and updates". Ive spent 5 hours there, all in the same day. Should I check between hands? Maybe just after the ones I win huh? Somehow I dont think my losing would warrant constant rule changes. As for knowing the rules of the game, how is this for basic strategy in the particular game I was playing?
1. I Lose
2. Refer back to 1.
Isnt it hard enough to beat these rigged games without the additional rules?
Again, I am only here to warn fellow gamblers of a crooked casino.
ATTN HONEST PLAYERS: DO NOT PLAY AT CASINO DEL RIO!
ATTN JPM: CASINO DEL RIO IS OFFERING A GREAT 100% BONUS FOR NEW PLAYERS, visit: Link Removed (Old/Invalid) And may I suggest the Jacks of Better machine. (Its very loose)

 

[The Dude]

Well f_dupp, eff'd up.

His account has been suspended until he agrees not to launch verbal attacks against members of the forum. This is uncool.

 

[jpm]

I'll expect to hear back from you again when you have problems with Golden Palace, since I think they are still on the 'meister's not recommended list.

There is no fraud here, you didn't read the rules and they came back to bite you. How rigged can the games be if you were able to wind up the $200 to $1050? Because you went back and lost at the same game later doesn't make them rigged. If you were playing aces & faces instead of JoB and then cashed out the $1050 would you still say they are rigged? No.

I don't say you should periodically check for changes and updates, the CASINO RULES say that. You should have read them all before you started playing there. If they were unclear on the T&C's when you called, then you should either have told them to remove the bonus, asked to speak to someone who does know, not played until you found out what they were, looked on the website to find them for yourself, save the T&C page on your computer, print it out making sure its dated in case there's a dispute later, or any combination of the above.

Accusing a casino of fraud is a VERY serious charge to make in a public forum. Particularly when they DID NOT defraud you. You played with a bonus without reading the rules of the free money they gave you. If you hadn't played a banned game or rejected the bonus, you wouldn't have a problem now. This is not fraud.

p.s. Thanks for the referal, but I already have played there and got my bonus, and after complying with the T&C cashed out without issue.

 

[jpm]

No big deal Bryan, I kind of expected he'd go off on me anyway. I was not offended if it makes any difference.

 

[f_dupp]

Does It say any thing about the Jacks of Better 4-line in the terms? No it doesnt. I have an email from the casino stating that game doesnt count either? Tell me JPM would veteran like yourself assume this. Cause Im the only one who received this email.
Thank you for contacting Casino Del Rio.
<,
<,In regards to our telephone conversation, please note that you are unable
<,to withdrawal the amount of 200.00 since you have not met the required
<,wagering requirements. Please note that according to the terms and
<,conditions of the first deposit bonus bets pleased in Craps, Roulettes,
<,Baccarat, Sic-Bo, and Jacks or Better (Including jacks or better 4 line) do
<,not count towards the wagering requirements.
<,
<,You only wagered $1048.50 in the valid games, please wager another
<,$1951.50 before you request another withdrawal. Thank you and have a nice
<,day.
<,
<,Should you have any questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact
<,the Casino Del Rio Support Team. We are available 24 hours a day, 7 days
<,a week.
<,
<,With Best Regards
<,
<,Latisha Ralf
<,Casino Del Rio

Notice the "(including jacks or better 4-line)"?
Did anyone see that game on the terms page? Maybe if you "periodically check" it will "magically appear". In your estimation JPM, how many players will get f**ked on the NEW 4-line rule? The answer: None who read this.
Oh, and in regards to your whining of nausea and lack of sleep, I have an idea, go puke in bed. Because I feel your nausea is very contagious.... Its making me sick.

 

[jpm]

No, it doesn't say specifically on the T&C page that the 4 line version is included, but yes I would assume that it means any version of JoB. Its not like its a different game, its just playing 4 lines at the same time. I would definately email and ask if the 4-line version was included though before I went near it (and in fact have done that at other casinos with similar rules). If there's any doubt, then don't risk it. Get it in writing (email) from the casino.

Some casinos, like microgaming, have different paytables on their 4-line VP and their one line VP. MG Deuces wild is a good example of this. In this case they may ban one version and not the other from wagering requirements (seen that too).

I had a nap and some pepto, so I'm feeling much better now, thanks!

 

[murder1]

The Best Way to Move on to another topic is to quit commenting on this one!!! :mg:

 

[f_dupp]

How about this subject? Rigged video poker double ups. Am I the only one who has noticed this travesty? The guy who invented the deck of cards must be spinning in his grave. How this can be claimed as random dumbfounds me. I am willing to go lose my ass at any playtech casino (excluding Del Rio) to prove my point. I will document each double up and average them out. I will double one time every win and pick the same card every double, in an attempt to narrow the margin of error. I will also note what each bet was worth. Which playtech casino would people say is the fairest?
I need to prove this, for after one solid month of online gambling, I am becoming a paranoid delusional. For I am convinced I cannot win in any online casino. I have actually cashed out ahead 4 times and have yet to be paid for any of it. Where can I win? please tell me

 

[murder1]

Go Ahead Lose it ALL! Prove Your POINT!!! :gunman:

 

[santo]

Can't say for playtech, but I've had some decent doubles (Full House * 5 lines) succeed at Crypto and MG Casinos.

 

[mrracetrack]

I think we should cut F_dupp some slack here.

He did win $1000 playing a basic casino game.

He apparently will not get paid his winnings.

Let's take a closer look at "why" this occured...

Most casinos have turned the "bonus" offering into a nightmare of ever changing terms and conditions that would boggle the mind of most people, and have incorporated so many silly & ridiculous "conditions" into the "bonus rules", that even the customer support people understandably haven't a clue to what is and is NOT permitted.

12X deposit AND bonus. If you try to cash out before meeting these terms, you forfeit your winnings, get locked out of the casino, and they would probably have you sentenced to 20 years in prison if they could.

You can't play "this game" at all, you CAN play "this game", but it doesn't count towards your wagering requirements, your cashin amount has to be twice what your deposit was, but not more than ten times the total of the bonus, and on & on & on. This is what causes SO MANY of the problems players have with online casinos.

You would find it easier to read "War and Peace"
than the 6 page manifestos that the casinos post as "Terms & Conditions".

Even the Prism Pitboss stated that BONUSES are the cause of most of his casinos troubles.

Bryan, the CasinoMeister, has said that he hates bonuses, obviously due to all the shit he has seen happen from them.

Yet, we now have all these casinos offering "bigger & better" bonuses, up to 400%,
baiting the players to bite. Just like a huge worm on a hook, enticing a hungry fish. And the casinos certainly do "reel you in".

With the ridiculous terms & conditions that are now being added daily, it's no wonder that players like F_dupp are pissed off about what happened here.

All these bonuses do is alienate the average player, and give the online casinos a bad reputation.

And I think it will get worse before steps are taken to correct this unfortunate situation.

 

[jinnia]

I agree with mrracetrack, it does seem as if f__dupp was f__d with by this casino.

I'm on f__dupp side here on this issue!

Good Luck!!

 

[glodge]

mrracetrack,

I totally agree with you & I'm on the other side of the fence.

I tried to keep our T&C's as clear cut as possible, I'd prefer not to offer any type of incentive, but 95% of players expect signup & ongoing bonuses.

The problem comes back to the bonuses every time, but if you don't offer them hardly anyone deposits.

It's a hard line to draw, I know myself that I want to be fair to our regular patrons & gamblers who are looking for a new casino, however I also know that if our T&C's pertaining to bonuses are to slack, we'll get rightly screwed over by bonus hunters.

 

[tim5ny]

You should find out what casinos are good before you give your money.

 

[italiano]

Well Del Rio did actually steal from me. You won't hear me crying rigged, they simply decided not to pay me.

 

[jinnia]

tim5ny,

there is no way to tell if a casino will cheat you til you play and try to cash-out. They may be fair to one, and cheat another.


italiano,

if you get cheated and decide not to try and correct it, that's your choice, but some people just don't like it.

And by posting in the gambling forums does not make it crying, it's venting while at the same time giving other players more of an insight to the practices of that casino.

A couple of complaints don't amount to nothing, but if there are many complaints of one, and they continue to come in, other player are grateful for the information.

Odds are against the player to begin with, no need to give your money to a casino who won't pay out winnings.

 

[tim5ny]

Well, if he was into Microgaming, I,d say 32Red. You WILL get paid there, and quickly. But I don,t know if he likes MG.

 

[sirius]

This casino group and also the Swiss Casino group have had some problems for a while (this case doesn't seem one of them). They were both operating under the same 'Global Interest Gaming' license until quite recently but then split licenses and probably ownership.

Even when Wiz was advertising just Swiss/Casino King/Las Vegas he had to persuade the casinos to pay the bonuses at times.

Tropez/Del Rio have had the worse problems. City Club Casino are also operated by the same company (Imperial e-club ltd.) and may have taken them over.

 

[sirius]

Nice new layout. I was trying to post this in the middle of the change.

Anyone know which 'established online casino operator' was originally linked to Swiss and also which one was linked to City Club (if different)? These were two of the first few Playtech licensees and were at least partly linked to existing online casino operators but their names were not mentioned anywhere on the Playtech site.

By the way, the new Imperial e-club Ltd. license started in April and City Club were formerly under City Club Casino ltd.. The City Club Casino site now says they are operated by Imperial e-club Limited and it's been in the domain registration info for a few months.

 

[paul02085]

I seem to remember Swiss and Club Dice being the first 2 Playtecs.

 

[jpm]

He really didn't though jinnia, he played a game that was clearly noted in the T&C as not counting for the wagering requirements. They weren't as bad about it as they could have been though. Many casinos will confiscate your winnings & bonus if you play a banned game. They didn't and just told him he had to play a grand or so more in order to cash out. For some reason which I don't understand, he went back an played the same game and lost most of it. Apparently he must have played something else along the line too, since they said he'd played 1000 or so already. So they weren't telling him he couldn't cash in, he just had to meet the w/r, which is what any place would require. The problem really was from not reading the T&C before accepting the bonus and playing, not from casino dishonesty. Yes the T&C's these days are getting more complex, but in this case they were very straight forward.

 

[jinnia]

Was it clearly noted BEFORE he played there, or after he requested a cash-out?

I don't know myself, for I have never played there, but, if what he is showing in the information he has, they changed it AFTER cash-out request.

Just the way I see it...

 

[f_dupp]

I was never told I couldnt plat that game! I was told I hadnt bet ENOUGH. I had made 14,000 in bets. I was told, "I dont know why our computer wont let you cash out" "you must need to wager more". And although she did ask if I was playing sic-bo, baccarat, or some other shit she never mentioned jacks of better. Only hours after I had blown the seemingly worthless credits on their seemingly worthless games, did I finally receive an explanation. I pasted the weblinks and all that crap. So go back and look at the original terms. You will see what I would have seen, had I been diligent enough. Actually, you will find no mention of jacks or better just as I wouldnt have. I brought up the mispelling, because I think it could be due to the fact that some jack ass had to hop on a puter and change it. Quick. And as far as "crying rigged" goes, italiano. Go throw down a twenty at a playtech casino and play some bj. If you dont cry rigged, I could only assume its because your jaw is on the floor. When I am changing my strategy to the point where I am hitting hard 16's against a 4. I have to ask myself "Why am I doing this?", and then go and play the rigged video poker instead.
This afternoon I opened an account at 3 mg sites and played video poker for hours, and, for the first time playing online, I actually enjoyed it. And did exceedingly better than I do on playtechs very nice looking garbage, which has caused me to punch 2 holes in my wall. (something I dont normally do)
I thank you Tim5ny, for the referral. 32red's double up feature did not appear suspicious in any way, and I will recommend it to others. Although I did miss the part of playtechs pattern where it spews out 2's for a short period in what I would guess to be an attempt to manipulate averages and percentages, in case its numbers are monitered. At times I was convinced the casinos loss prevention guy , I mean player win prevention guy was on the other end, and him and I were involved in a frantically paced chess match. But it was if I only knew how to play checkers. I must go now. Later on.

 

[jpm]

This is really getting silly. You are now accusing the casino of hastily changing the terms and conditions on their website after you had some good luck on Jacks or Better just to cheat you out of $1050. That is simply ridiculous.

So here's one link you posted in one of your earlier emails as 'proof' that they cheated you. Now read it carefully.

Link Removed (invalid URL)

See the part that says "

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

"? That is an AFFILIATE site, it is NOT the casino's website. Here is the listing for the owner of playcasinodelrio.com

Registrant:
B.I.M.S Ltd. (PLAYCASINODELRIO-COM-DOM)
P.O. BOX CB-12724
3rd Floor, Trade Winds Building Bay Street
Nassau, Bahamas CB-12724
Bahamas
608-827-4432
[email protected]

Now here's the owner of the REAL casinodelrio.com domain.

Registrant:
Imperial e-club Limited
6 Temple Street
St Johns, NA 0000
AG
1 268 4606184
Fax:1 268 4606183

If you look further at their name servers in a whois search, you'll see the real site uses playtech's name servers and the affiliate site uses someplace called ocservers.net, whoever that is.

So then in another link you provide as 'proof' that they cheated you, you provide a CACHED page from google that has the following disclaimer:

This is G o o g l e's cache of

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.
G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled the web.
The page may have changed since that time.

And that is only a cache of their terms of use page NOT the promotional bonus wagering requirement/terms and conditions page. So not only is it the wrong page, its an cached, who knows how old copy of the wrong page.

[Jinnia, I'm afraid these are the same pages you are looking at as well. The casino's page clearly states in no uncertain terms that Jacks of Better (sic) does not count towards wagering requirements.]

So then you again reference the affiliate playcasinodelrio.com website as proof and add to that yet another affiliate website,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, as proof. Unfortunately, affiliates DON'T SET THE RULES and their websites should NEVER be used as a resource for the rules in effect at the casino when you signup and claim a bonus. They are under no obligation to have the most recent information on their sites, its your obligation to get the current rules directly from the casino's website.

And why would you go looking on google for the casino terms & conditions rather than the casino website itself? You only went looking for those after you read it on the casino's site because you thought they were out to screw you.

And if you look a little bit further down on the casino's bonus page (Link Removed (Old/Invalid) ), you'll see under the section that follows the 'Jacks of Better' rule, that there is a section that applies to the 10% alternative payment method bonus. In this section they also list Jacks or Better as a game that doesn't count towards wagering requirements and its spelled correctly!

So using your logic, they must have needlessly added that game to the 10% bonus terms which DON'T EVEN APPLY TO YOU in this case. Did they do that to screw someone else out of $10 maybe??

Yes it is very hard to lose that kind of money after such a good hit, but accept the fact that it is your fault for not reading the rules before you started playing. ALL of us have done this at some point and had it come back to bite us, but accusing the casino of changing these rules after you tried to cashin and then rigging the games so you'd lose after you called them is really ludicrous.

 

[mrracetrack]

jpm stated...

"This is really getting silly. You are now accusing the casino of hastily changing the terms and conditions on their website after you had some good luck on Jacks or Better just to cheat you out of $1050. That is simply ridiculous...."

No, it's not, jpm. AngelCiti did exactly that a few months ago. I'm surprised you don't recall that. And other casinos have done this too.

The casinos will use ANY excuse possible NOT to pay you. I truly believe that they look for "violations" on a majority of cashouts, hoping to find an "out" that they can use as grounds to deny the cashout.

These casinos are NOT happy to pay anyone. Obviously, they must incur "some" payouts, but when they can find any reason to NOT pay you, they will.

And that's what is becoming "simply ridiculous".

 

[f_dupp]

I am done with this. I came in here with the intention of posting one thread to warn players of a casino that gave me a hassle. Well, I find that constantly having to defend myself here is also a hassle. While I understand that you people deal with scum of the earth con artists who will put more effort into stealing than they would have to exert making an honest living. I now also understand that this con artist is also having to deal with you. That poor man! I do not understand why I have been "attacked". The way a few of you have spoken to me, is the same way I have seen scammers spoken to in other threads here. I do not appreciate that. I tried to avoid that whole situation from the get go, by stating that I was not pursuing the money. So, I ask you all, what is my motivation? Not to sound trite, but this really wasnt about the money. It was about the sick feeling in my gut informing me that I was a sucker. Frankly, I get a feeling not unlike that after reading many of these replies. As for my career in online casino scamming. I am going to retire now, because I obviously suck at it. I have never received a single dime from an online casino. And how did I ever think I could get away with it all? Even jpm figured me out!
What really surprises me is, that any of this surprises me. The world is overall a horrible place, overpopulated by shitty people. And the next time the aliens swing by to give my neighbor her monthly rectal exam. Im gonna catch a ride with them. After all, the rectal exam cant be half as humiliating as this.
I am going to start forum for people to bitch about other forums in. And after they do, Im gonna make them feel shittier than the previous forum that they came to bitch about did. But Im going to need help, and as I have seen that some of you have the all qualifications for this position, may I offer you a job?

 

[jpm]

Mrracetrack, its really quite simple. He didn't read the t&c before he started, then claims they changed it after he tried to cash out. You can't say they changed it to screw you if you don't know what it said in the first place. That is the problem. Whether another casino has done this to someone else before is really not relevant. They aren't even in the same group!

If he had looked at them FIRST and then, after he tried to cashin, he looked again and they'd added JoB to the list of banned games, that would be one thing. But that's not the case and I really don't understand why that is so difficult to understand. He's trying to used cached pages from affiliate sites as proof they changed it after the fact and that is simply not proof.

If they wanted to screw him out of $1050, why would they tell him he only needs to wager another $1900+ because some of the games he played were not allowed instead of just saying 'you played a banned game so we're confiscating your winnings'? That would be much easier than this convoluted scenario of them changing the website and rigging the games to make him lose.

And if that were the m.o. of this group, why wouldn't City Club have pulled that on me when I took them for $5k playing their $100 signup bonus just last month?? Or Club Dice the month before that for about $4k on an email bonus? They should have, according to your reasoning, but they happily sent the money because I fully complied with the T&C which were exactly the same before I started and after I finished a couple of days later.

Banning JoB from wagering requirements is NOT new. I've been seeing more and more casinos adding this to their list of games you can't use for bonus wagering. Some of these are playtechs, some are microgaming.

f_dupp started out by attacking the casino and accusing them of STEALING from him (see the thread title) with no proof whatsoever. Myself and others have explained its not stealing when you don't comply with the T&C because you don't bother to read them in the first place and then can't cashin. That is just negligent gambling. He's trying to hurt their business by telling anyone who reads this thread that they are dishonest and theives and to never play there. That is simply wrong in this case because he is the one who erred and not the casino.

If you can't see that by now, then you never will and I'm not going to try to explain it anymore. Its just not worth the effort. As the dealer says, >,clap<, I'm out.

 

[mrracetrack]

jpm...

[color=ff0000]"...why wouldn't City Club have pulled that on me when I took them for $5k playing their $100 signup bonus just last month?? Or Club Dice the month before that for about $4k on an email bonus? They should have, according to your reasoning, but they happily sent the money because I fully complied with the T&C ..."[/color]

How would you know that they were "happy" to pay you.?? My guess is that they went over your play log with a fine tooth comb, and only after being unable to find an "out", they felt they "had" to pay you.


[color=ff0000]"...If you can't see that by now, then you never will and I'm not going to try to explain it anymore. Its just not worth the effort...."[/color]

I didn't drop in here from Pluto. I "see" things just fine. I "see" exactly what happened here with F_dupp, and I stated my opinion about it.

You can defend the casinos if you choose to.
I choose not to. I can sympathize with an aggrieved player a lot easier than I can for a casino. Apparently, you can't, and you feel the need to ridicule and chastise him for his loss.

jpm.... You should do PR for a casino. You would be good at it. :uhoh:

 

[jpm]

Who knows if they were happy to pay me, but they didn't give me any hassle about it so they weren't too unhappy. In fact, City Club wrote to congratulate me and asked me if I wanted to give them a comment on my win for them to post on their website (which I never did get around to doing). I guess you'd think they'd pay that so they can have me say something good on their website to lure in someone else that they can take $100 from in the end as in this case, since that really is how much he is out of pocket. And they couldn't have been too unhappy about it or they would have given my the money and told me to screw. They even continue to send me promos in email and haven't locked my account, so they can't be very upset.

I don't defend the casinos unless they are being unfairly and inaccurately accused of something which is clearly the case here. I did not ridicule but did chastise him for not knowing the rules and then whining about it afterwards when they were enforced. I can empathize but not sympathize.

Apparently you think that they should change the rules and allow him to withdraw his winnings because he had a good win. Why should they? And if they do that for him, then they need to do it for everyone. If you don't like the rules at the casino, DON'T PLAY THERE. Same goes if you don't read the rules. The first time his withdrawl was rejected, he should have gone to the website and read the T&C there, not go back and continue playing the same game and lose it all back. If he'd done that, he would have known to switch to a different game and may have been able to walk away with some winnings. So that was a second mistake on the player's part, after not reading them in the first place.

Can you say with any certainty that they changed the rules after he tried to cash out? NO! Because YOU didn't read the rules and neither did he. Can I say they didn't change the rules after he tried to cash out? NO! Because I didn't read the rules and neither did he. In that case, he (or you) has to prove that they did change them after the fact and that simply can't be done since none of us read them beforehand. That is the root of the problem here. Not the casino's behavior or his luck before or after the cash out attempt. In fact, the odds just basically evened out on this game since its about a 99% payback game to begin with. He started with 200 and ended with 200 after what was apparently thousands of hands.

So why is it that just after he posted his initial complaint you said:
"Basically, YOU F-dupp, by not reading all the T&C.

Yes, these casinos will make a big issue about petty shit, and it is frustrating to try to deal with some of the morons that are employed in customer service positions.

Bottom line here, is that the game you played (regardless of how they spelled it, we all know what they meant)is currently listed as a non playable game as far as WR are concerned.

What you need to do, is to try to find out if it was listed as a T&C prior to you playing.

If it was NOT, then you have a valid beef."

You agreed then that he was wrong for not reading the T&C, now you've turned around 180 degrees. Why is that? None of the 'proof' that he posted was from the casino's website.

I'd like to hear from you some facts as to why the casino is wrong and he is right (I'm serious). Not just that some other casino has done something similar to some other player in the past, or that T&Cs are getting too confusing these days, just stick to the facts of this case and why the casino is wrong. Maybe I've missed something along the way that caused you to reverse course.

If we just allow anyone who doesn't like a casino's rule to come here and post false accusations against any or all casinos, and accept them as automatically being right simply because they are the player, then the casinos will all go out of business and none of us will be able to enjoy our hobby anymore.

If there is a LEGITIMATE claim against a casino, I'll back the player 100%, if its an illegitimate claim as in this case, I'll back the casino 100%. Unless you want to see them all close, then you have to have an open mind when a casino dispute comes up and give equal weight to both sides.

Assuming all casinos are evil is going to do nothing but harm to our hobby. Maybe you want them all to close, I do not. I do want the dishonest ones exposed, made to pay, and then closed. They are all in the business to make money, not to make every player happy by changing the rules to accomodate them. The old adage about the customer is always right is just that, old and outdated.

Thanks for the compliment, but I'm happy with my current job.

Bryan, you've been silent on this whole matter. I'd really like to hear your take on this. I'm sure you've been following the thread.

 

[f_dupp]

"The first time his withdrawl was rejected, he should have gone to the website and read the T&C there, not go back and continue playing the same game and lose it all back. If he'd done that, he would have known to switch to a different game and may have been able to walk away with some winnings. "I'd like to hear from you some facts as to why the casino is wrong and he is right(I'm serious)."- (a serious dipshit)
JPM: PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING (2x)
When I initially tried to cash out, the casinos withdraw page told me I could not. To find out why I CALLED THE CASINO. After being given a runaround about my username and put on hold for a good 10 min. I was told they were having computer problems. I was again put on hold. Another ten minutes later I was told that because of the bonus there were very high wagering requirements, and that I just needed play more. She even asked me if I had been playing specific games (baccarat, sic-bo, roulette). There was no mention of, in either conversation I had with this casino (I did call them again $850 later) the game Jacks or Better. I was basically told to keep doing what I was doing, but to do more of it. All this coming from a little girl whom I can barely understand, and can barely understand me.
I would like to hear your defense of such downright horseshit "customer service" jpm.
You have continually nitpicked certain statements I have made, while completely disregarding others. For you'll see I have already stated this in previous threads. Your stance on this subject seems odd enough to begin with. Things you have said, such as this-
"I'll back the casino 100%"
frighten me. Why a person would do that without having any affiliation to the casino is beyond me. Other statements such as,
"The old adage about the customer is always right is just that, old and outdated." sound like the thoughts of someone partaking in dishonorable business. Who else would say that? I have emailed the casino with this thread inviting them to defend themselves here, but apparently you dont need any help. If you are not on their payroll, you should be. Any defense of an industry with a bankroll as large as theirs, in a public forum such as this, is deserving of a large monetary sum. That casinos are "happily" paying you (unrealistic) and that you are "happy with my current job" (unrealistic) are bullshit, or an amazing coincidence. Your defend the casino til death mentality is not the average. It lends me to believe the following:
1. You are a paid shill
2. You are an unpaid shill (sucker)
3. You are a gambling addict and you whore yourself here for bonus credits.
I myself believe there is a place in this world for legitimate casinos. I have also seen people demonstrate responsible gambling. But it remains a fact that gambling ruins many lives. Listening to you vehemently defend shady casinos is comparable to listening to a "big tobacco" rep. lie through his teeth. Where does the online gambling dollar go? It could feed the starving babies of Antigua or it could fund "Kill America" in Iraq. You should really find that out before you defend their integrity. Unless you are in Iraq. Then I must ask you, what did you get your kids for kill america day?
It comes down to this. The casino is in the wrong. This casinos misinformed staff misinformed me outta some money. Big deal. I come here trying to advise players to go simply elsewhere. Id wished I had seen one thing myself saying DEL RIO STOLE $XXXX. If someone reads this thread and decides to play there, well then, they are a dumbfuck. Therefor my mission is accomplished. You may sit and discredit me if this casinos business and reputation really mean that much to you. That will not bother me. But if I have to come back to explain myself again due to your "wooden ears", I'll probably rant again. Just so your warned.

 

[mrracetrack]

Here is another "disgruntled" DelRio Casino player.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

jpm, you asked why I stated "[color=0000ff]You agreed then that he was wrong for not reading the T&C, now you've turned around 180 degrees. Why is that? None of the 'proof' that he posted was from the casino's website..." [/color]

I said that early on in this thread.

With the added imput from F_dupp, I started to see things differently, therefore changing my original thoughts on this issue.

He has presented a valid explanation, and provided enough information, for me to feel he has a legitimate beef with the casino.

You also said "[color=0000ff]The first time his withdrawl was rejected, he should have gone to the website and read the T&C there..." [/color] Well, he spoke with one of the casinos customer service reps. If they had said to him, specifically, "You played a game that is NOT ALLOWED as per our T&C, therefore you cannot cash out your winnings", My original thoughts would have stayed status quo.

Since this is NOT the case here, and assuming F_dupp is reporting this honestly, he has a valid complaint, in my opinion.

And although I don't think you're a "shill", as F_dupp does, I do think you have a rather "slanted" viewpoint in your constant support of the casinos.