Casino Del Rio STOLE $1050.00 from me!

[murder1]

The Best Way to Move on to another topic is to quit commenting on this one!!! :mg:

 

[f_dupp]

How about this subject? Rigged video poker double ups. Am I the only one who has noticed this travesty? The guy who invented the deck of cards must be spinning in his grave. How this can be claimed as random dumbfounds me. I am willing to go lose my ass at any playtech casino (excluding Del Rio) to prove my point. I will document each double up and average them out. I will double one time every win and pick the same card every double, in an attempt to narrow the margin of error. I will also note what each bet was worth. Which playtech casino would people say is the fairest?
I need to prove this, for after one solid month of online gambling, I am becoming a paranoid delusional. For I am convinced I cannot win in any online casino. I have actually cashed out ahead 4 times and have yet to be paid for any of it. Where can I win? please tell me

 

[murder1]

Go Ahead Lose it ALL! Prove Your POINT!!! :gunman:

 

[santo]

Can't say for playtech, but I've had some decent doubles (Full House * 5 lines) succeed at Crypto and MG Casinos.

 

[mrracetrack]

I think we should cut F_dupp some slack here.

He did win $1000 playing a basic casino game.

He apparently will not get paid his winnings.

Let's take a closer look at "why" this occured...

Most casinos have turned the "bonus" offering into a nightmare of ever changing terms and conditions that would boggle the mind of most people, and have incorporated so many silly & ridiculous "conditions" into the "bonus rules", that even the customer support people understandably haven't a clue to what is and is NOT permitted.

12X deposit AND bonus. If you try to cash out before meeting these terms, you forfeit your winnings, get locked out of the casino, and they would probably have you sentenced to 20 years in prison if they could.

You can't play "this game" at all, you CAN play "this game", but it doesn't count towards your wagering requirements, your cashin amount has to be twice what your deposit was, but not more than ten times the total of the bonus, and on & on & on. This is what causes SO MANY of the problems players have with online casinos.

You would find it easier to read "War and Peace"
than the 6 page manifestos that the casinos post as "Terms & Conditions".

Even the Prism Pitboss stated that BONUSES are the cause of most of his casinos troubles.

Bryan, the CasinoMeister, has said that he hates bonuses, obviously due to all the shit he has seen happen from them.

Yet, we now have all these casinos offering "bigger & better" bonuses, up to 400%,
baiting the players to bite. Just like a huge worm on a hook, enticing a hungry fish. And the casinos certainly do "reel you in".

With the ridiculous terms & conditions that are now being added daily, it's no wonder that players like F_dupp are pissed off about what happened here.

All these bonuses do is alienate the average player, and give the online casinos a bad reputation.

And I think it will get worse before steps are taken to correct this unfortunate situation.

 

[jinnia]

I agree with mrracetrack, it does seem as if f__dupp was f__d with by this casino.

I'm on f__dupp side here on this issue!

Good Luck!!

 

[glodge]

mrracetrack,

I totally agree with you & I'm on the other side of the fence.

I tried to keep our T&C's as clear cut as possible, I'd prefer not to offer any type of incentive, but 95% of players expect signup & ongoing bonuses.

The problem comes back to the bonuses every time, but if you don't offer them hardly anyone deposits.

It's a hard line to draw, I know myself that I want to be fair to our regular patrons & gamblers who are looking for a new casino, however I also know that if our T&C's pertaining to bonuses are to slack, we'll get rightly screwed over by bonus hunters.

 

[tim5ny]

You should find out what casinos are good before you give your money.

 

[italiano]

Well Del Rio did actually steal from me. You won't hear me crying rigged, they simply decided not to pay me.

 

[jinnia]

tim5ny,

there is no way to tell if a casino will cheat you til you play and try to cash-out. They may be fair to one, and cheat another.


italiano,

if you get cheated and decide not to try and correct it, that's your choice, but some people just don't like it.

And by posting in the gambling forums does not make it crying, it's venting while at the same time giving other players more of an insight to the practices of that casino.

A couple of complaints don't amount to nothing, but if there are many complaints of one, and they continue to come in, other player are grateful for the information.

Odds are against the player to begin with, no need to give your money to a casino who won't pay out winnings.

 

[tim5ny]

Well, if he was into Microgaming, I,d say 32Red. You WILL get paid there, and quickly. But I don,t know if he likes MG.

 

[sirius]

This casino group and also the Swiss Casino group have had some problems for a while (this case doesn't seem one of them). They were both operating under the same 'Global Interest Gaming' license until quite recently but then split licenses and probably ownership.

Even when Wiz was advertising just Swiss/Casino King/Las Vegas he had to persuade the casinos to pay the bonuses at times.

Tropez/Del Rio have had the worse problems. City Club Casino are also operated by the same company (Imperial e-club ltd.) and may have taken them over.

 

[sirius]

Nice new layout. I was trying to post this in the middle of the change.

Anyone know which 'established online casino operator' was originally linked to Swiss and also which one was linked to City Club (if different)? These were two of the first few Playtech licensees and were at least partly linked to existing online casino operators but their names were not mentioned anywhere on the Playtech site.

By the way, the new Imperial e-club Ltd. license started in April and City Club were formerly under City Club Casino ltd.. The City Club Casino site now says they are operated by Imperial e-club Limited and it's been in the domain registration info for a few months.

 

[paul02085]

I seem to remember Swiss and Club Dice being the first 2 Playtecs.

 

[jpm]

He really didn't though jinnia, he played a game that was clearly noted in the T&C as not counting for the wagering requirements. They weren't as bad about it as they could have been though. Many casinos will confiscate your winnings & bonus if you play a banned game. They didn't and just told him he had to play a grand or so more in order to cash out. For some reason which I don't understand, he went back an played the same game and lost most of it. Apparently he must have played something else along the line too, since they said he'd played 1000 or so already. So they weren't telling him he couldn't cash in, he just had to meet the w/r, which is what any place would require. The problem really was from not reading the T&C before accepting the bonus and playing, not from casino dishonesty. Yes the T&C's these days are getting more complex, but in this case they were very straight forward.

 

[jinnia]

Was it clearly noted BEFORE he played there, or after he requested a cash-out?

I don't know myself, for I have never played there, but, if what he is showing in the information he has, they changed it AFTER cash-out request.

Just the way I see it...

 

[f_dupp]

I was never told I couldnt plat that game! I was told I hadnt bet ENOUGH. I had made 14,000 in bets. I was told, "I dont know why our computer wont let you cash out" "you must need to wager more". And although she did ask if I was playing sic-bo, baccarat, or some other shit she never mentioned jacks of better. Only hours after I had blown the seemingly worthless credits on their seemingly worthless games, did I finally receive an explanation. I pasted the weblinks and all that crap. So go back and look at the original terms. You will see what I would have seen, had I been diligent enough. Actually, you will find no mention of jacks or better just as I wouldnt have. I brought up the mispelling, because I think it could be due to the fact that some jack ass had to hop on a puter and change it. Quick. And as far as "crying rigged" goes, italiano. Go throw down a twenty at a playtech casino and play some bj. If you dont cry rigged, I could only assume its because your jaw is on the floor. When I am changing my strategy to the point where I am hitting hard 16's against a 4. I have to ask myself "Why am I doing this?", and then go and play the rigged video poker instead.
This afternoon I opened an account at 3 mg sites and played video poker for hours, and, for the first time playing online, I actually enjoyed it. And did exceedingly better than I do on playtechs very nice looking garbage, which has caused me to punch 2 holes in my wall. (something I dont normally do)
I thank you Tim5ny, for the referral. 32red's double up feature did not appear suspicious in any way, and I will recommend it to others. Although I did miss the part of playtechs pattern where it spews out 2's for a short period in what I would guess to be an attempt to manipulate averages and percentages, in case its numbers are monitered. At times I was convinced the casinos loss prevention guy , I mean player win prevention guy was on the other end, and him and I were involved in a frantically paced chess match. But it was if I only knew how to play checkers. I must go now. Later on.

 

[jpm]

This is really getting silly. You are now accusing the casino of hastily changing the terms and conditions on their website after you had some good luck on Jacks or Better just to cheat you out of $1050. That is simply ridiculous.

So here's one link you posted in one of your earlier emails as 'proof' that they cheated you. Now read it carefully.

Link Removed (invalid URL)

See the part that says "

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

"? That is an AFFILIATE site, it is NOT the casino's website. Here is the listing for the owner of playcasinodelrio.com

Registrant:
B.I.M.S Ltd. (PLAYCASINODELRIO-COM-DOM)
P.O. BOX CB-12724
3rd Floor, Trade Winds Building Bay Street
Nassau, Bahamas CB-12724
Bahamas
608-827-4432
squareboxent@yahoo.com

Now here's the owner of the REAL casinodelrio.com domain.

Registrant:
Imperial e-club Limited
6 Temple Street
St Johns, NA 0000
AG
1 268 4606184
Fax:1 268 4606183

If you look further at their name servers in a whois search, you'll see the real site uses playtech's name servers and the affiliate site uses someplace called ocservers.net, whoever that is.

So then in another link you provide as 'proof' that they cheated you, you provide a CACHED page from google that has the following disclaimer:

This is G o o g l e's cache of

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.
G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we crawled the web.
The page may have changed since that time.

And that is only a cache of their terms of use page NOT the promotional bonus wagering requirement/terms and conditions page. So not only is it the wrong page, its an cached, who knows how old copy of the wrong page.

[Jinnia, I'm afraid these are the same pages you are looking at as well. The casino's page clearly states in no uncertain terms that Jacks of Better (sic) does not count towards wagering requirements.]

So then you again reference the affiliate playcasinodelrio.com website as proof and add to that yet another affiliate website,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, as proof. Unfortunately, affiliates DON'T SET THE RULES and their websites should NEVER be used as a resource for the rules in effect at the casino when you signup and claim a bonus. They are under no obligation to have the most recent information on their sites, its your obligation to get the current rules directly from the casino's website.

And why would you go looking on google for the casino terms & conditions rather than the casino website itself? You only went looking for those after you read it on the casino's site because you thought they were out to screw you.

And if you look a little bit further down on the casino's bonus page (Link Removed (Old/Invalid) ), you'll see under the section that follows the 'Jacks of Better' rule, that there is a section that applies to the 10% alternative payment method bonus. In this section they also list Jacks or Better as a game that doesn't count towards wagering requirements and its spelled correctly!

So using your logic, they must have needlessly added that game to the 10% bonus terms which DON'T EVEN APPLY TO YOU in this case. Did they do that to screw someone else out of $10 maybe??

Yes it is very hard to lose that kind of money after such a good hit, but accept the fact that it is your fault for not reading the rules before you started playing. ALL of us have done this at some point and had it come back to bite us, but accusing the casino of changing these rules after you tried to cashin and then rigging the games so you'd lose after you called them is really ludicrous.

 

[mrracetrack]

jpm stated...

"This is really getting silly. You are now accusing the casino of hastily changing the terms and conditions on their website after you had some good luck on Jacks or Better just to cheat you out of $1050. That is simply ridiculous...."

No, it's not, jpm. AngelCiti did exactly that a few months ago. I'm surprised you don't recall that. And other casinos have done this too.

The casinos will use ANY excuse possible NOT to pay you. I truly believe that they look for "violations" on a majority of cashouts, hoping to find an "out" that they can use as grounds to deny the cashout.

These casinos are NOT happy to pay anyone. Obviously, they must incur "some" payouts, but when they can find any reason to NOT pay you, they will.

And that's what is becoming "simply ridiculous".

 

[f_dupp]

I am done with this. I came in here with the intention of posting one thread to warn players of a casino that gave me a hassle. Well, I find that constantly having to defend myself here is also a hassle. While I understand that you people deal with scum of the earth con artists who will put more effort into stealing than they would have to exert making an honest living. I now also understand that this con artist is also having to deal with you. That poor man! I do not understand why I have been "attacked". The way a few of you have spoken to me, is the same way I have seen scammers spoken to in other threads here. I do not appreciate that. I tried to avoid that whole situation from the get go, by stating that I was not pursuing the money. So, I ask you all, what is my motivation? Not to sound trite, but this really wasnt about the money. It was about the sick feeling in my gut informing me that I was a sucker. Frankly, I get a feeling not unlike that after reading many of these replies. As for my career in online casino scamming. I am going to retire now, because I obviously suck at it. I have never received a single dime from an online casino. And how did I ever think I could get away with it all? Even jpm figured me out!
What really surprises me is, that any of this surprises me. The world is overall a horrible place, overpopulated by shitty people. And the next time the aliens swing by to give my neighbor her monthly rectal exam. Im gonna catch a ride with them. After all, the rectal exam cant be half as humiliating as this.
I am going to start forum for people to bitch about other forums in. And after they do, Im gonna make them feel shittier than the previous forum that they came to bitch about did. But Im going to need help, and as I have seen that some of you have the all qualifications for this position, may I offer you a job?

 

[jpm]

Mrracetrack, its really quite simple. He didn't read the t&c before he started, then claims they changed it after he tried to cash out. You can't say they changed it to screw you if you don't know what it said in the first place. That is the problem. Whether another casino has done this to someone else before is really not relevant. They aren't even in the same group!

If he had looked at them FIRST and then, after he tried to cashin, he looked again and they'd added JoB to the list of banned games, that would be one thing. But that's not the case and I really don't understand why that is so difficult to understand. He's trying to used cached pages from affiliate sites as proof they changed it after the fact and that is simply not proof.

If they wanted to screw him out of $1050, why would they tell him he only needs to wager another $1900+ because some of the games he played were not allowed instead of just saying 'you played a banned game so we're confiscating your winnings'? That would be much easier than this convoluted scenario of them changing the website and rigging the games to make him lose.

And if that were the m.o. of this group, why wouldn't City Club have pulled that on me when I took them for $5k playing their $100 signup bonus just last month?? Or Club Dice the month before that for about $4k on an email bonus? They should have, according to your reasoning, but they happily sent the money because I fully complied with the T&C which were exactly the same before I started and after I finished a couple of days later.

Banning JoB from wagering requirements is NOT new. I've been seeing more and more casinos adding this to their list of games you can't use for bonus wagering. Some of these are playtechs, some are microgaming.

f_dupp started out by attacking the casino and accusing them of STEALING from him (see the thread title) with no proof whatsoever. Myself and others have explained its not stealing when you don't comply with the T&C because you don't bother to read them in the first place and then can't cashin. That is just negligent gambling. He's trying to hurt their business by telling anyone who reads this thread that they are dishonest and theives and to never play there. That is simply wrong in this case because he is the one who erred and not the casino.

If you can't see that by now, then you never will and I'm not going to try to explain it anymore. Its just not worth the effort. As the dealer says, >,clap<, I'm out.

 

[mrracetrack]

jpm...

[color=ff0000]"...why wouldn't City Club have pulled that on me when I took them for $5k playing their $100 signup bonus just last month?? Or Club Dice the month before that for about $4k on an email bonus? They should have, according to your reasoning, but they happily sent the money because I fully complied with the T&C ..."[/color]

How would you know that they were "happy" to pay you.?? My guess is that they went over your play log with a fine tooth comb, and only after being unable to find an "out", they felt they "had" to pay you.


[color=ff0000]"...If you can't see that by now, then you never will and I'm not going to try to explain it anymore. Its just not worth the effort...."[/color]

I didn't drop in here from Pluto. I "see" things just fine. I "see" exactly what happened here with F_dupp, and I stated my opinion about it.

You can defend the casinos if you choose to.
I choose not to. I can sympathize with an aggrieved player a lot easier than I can for a casino. Apparently, you can't, and you feel the need to ridicule and chastise him for his loss.

jpm.... You should do PR for a casino. You would be good at it. :uhoh:

 

[jpm]

Who knows if they were happy to pay me, but they didn't give me any hassle about it so they weren't too unhappy. In fact, City Club wrote to congratulate me and asked me if I wanted to give them a comment on my win for them to post on their website (which I never did get around to doing). I guess you'd think they'd pay that so they can have me say something good on their website to lure in someone else that they can take $100 from in the end as in this case, since that really is how much he is out of pocket. And they couldn't have been too unhappy about it or they would have given my the money and told me to screw. They even continue to send me promos in email and haven't locked my account, so they can't be very upset.

I don't defend the casinos unless they are being unfairly and inaccurately accused of something which is clearly the case here. I did not ridicule but did chastise him for not knowing the rules and then whining about it afterwards when they were enforced. I can empathize but not sympathize.

Apparently you think that they should change the rules and allow him to withdraw his winnings because he had a good win. Why should they? And if they do that for him, then they need to do it for everyone. If you don't like the rules at the casino, DON'T PLAY THERE. Same goes if you don't read the rules. The first time his withdrawl was rejected, he should have gone to the website and read the T&C there, not go back and continue playing the same game and lose it all back. If he'd done that, he would have known to switch to a different game and may have been able to walk away with some winnings. So that was a second mistake on the player's part, after not reading them in the first place.

Can you say with any certainty that they changed the rules after he tried to cash out? NO! Because YOU didn't read the rules and neither did he. Can I say they didn't change the rules after he tried to cash out? NO! Because I didn't read the rules and neither did he. In that case, he (or you) has to prove that they did change them after the fact and that simply can't be done since none of us read them beforehand. That is the root of the problem here. Not the casino's behavior or his luck before or after the cash out attempt. In fact, the odds just basically evened out on this game since its about a 99% payback game to begin with. He started with 200 and ended with 200 after what was apparently thousands of hands.

So why is it that just after he posted his initial complaint you said:
"Basically, YOU F-dupp, by not reading all the T&C.

Yes, these casinos will make a big issue about petty shit, and it is frustrating to try to deal with some of the morons that are employed in customer service positions.

Bottom line here, is that the game you played (regardless of how they spelled it, we all know what they meant)is currently listed as a non playable game as far as WR are concerned.

What you need to do, is to try to find out if it was listed as a T&C prior to you playing.

If it was NOT, then you have a valid beef."

You agreed then that he was wrong for not reading the T&C, now you've turned around 180 degrees. Why is that? None of the 'proof' that he posted was from the casino's website.

I'd like to hear from you some facts as to why the casino is wrong and he is right (I'm serious). Not just that some other casino has done something similar to some other player in the past, or that T&Cs are getting too confusing these days, just stick to the facts of this case and why the casino is wrong. Maybe I've missed something along the way that caused you to reverse course.

If we just allow anyone who doesn't like a casino's rule to come here and post false accusations against any or all casinos, and accept them as automatically being right simply because they are the player, then the casinos will all go out of business and none of us will be able to enjoy our hobby anymore.

If there is a LEGITIMATE claim against a casino, I'll back the player 100%, if its an illegitimate claim as in this case, I'll back the casino 100%. Unless you want to see them all close, then you have to have an open mind when a casino dispute comes up and give equal weight to both sides.

Assuming all casinos are evil is going to do nothing but harm to our hobby. Maybe you want them all to close, I do not. I do want the dishonest ones exposed, made to pay, and then closed. They are all in the business to make money, not to make every player happy by changing the rules to accomodate them. The old adage about the customer is always right is just that, old and outdated.

Thanks for the compliment, but I'm happy with my current job.

Bryan, you've been silent on this whole matter. I'd really like to hear your take on this. I'm sure you've been following the thread.

 

[f_dupp]

"The first time his withdrawl was rejected, he should have gone to the website and read the T&C there, not go back and continue playing the same game and lose it all back. If he'd done that, he would have known to switch to a different game and may have been able to walk away with some winnings. "I'd like to hear from you some facts as to why the casino is wrong and he is right(I'm serious)."- (a serious dipshit)
JPM: PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING (2x)
When I initially tried to cash out, the casinos withdraw page told me I could not. To find out why I CALLED THE CASINO. After being given a runaround about my username and put on hold for a good 10 min. I was told they were having computer problems. I was again put on hold. Another ten minutes later I was told that because of the bonus there were very high wagering requirements, and that I just needed play more. She even asked me if I had been playing specific games (baccarat, sic-bo, roulette). There was no mention of, in either conversation I had with this casino (I did call them again $850 later) the game Jacks or Better. I was basically told to keep doing what I was doing, but to do more of it. All this coming from a little girl whom I can barely understand, and can barely understand me.
I would like to hear your defense of such downright horseshit "customer service" jpm.
You have continually nitpicked certain statements I have made, while completely disregarding others. For you'll see I have already stated this in previous threads. Your stance on this subject seems odd enough to begin with. Things you have said, such as this-
"I'll back the casino 100%"
frighten me. Why a person would do that without having any affiliation to the casino is beyond me. Other statements such as,
"The old adage about the customer is always right is just that, old and outdated." sound like the thoughts of someone partaking in dishonorable business. Who else would say that? I have emailed the casino with this thread inviting them to defend themselves here, but apparently you dont need any help. If you are not on their payroll, you should be. Any defense of an industry with a bankroll as large as theirs, in a public forum such as this, is deserving of a large monetary sum. That casinos are "happily" paying you (unrealistic) and that you are "happy with my current job" (unrealistic) are bullshit, or an amazing coincidence. Your defend the casino til death mentality is not the average. It lends me to believe the following:
1. You are a paid shill
2. You are an unpaid shill (sucker)
3. You are a gambling addict and you whore yourself here for bonus credits.
I myself believe there is a place in this world for legitimate casinos. I have also seen people demonstrate responsible gambling. But it remains a fact that gambling ruins many lives. Listening to you vehemently defend shady casinos is comparable to listening to a "big tobacco" rep. lie through his teeth. Where does the online gambling dollar go? It could feed the starving babies of Antigua or it could fund "Kill America" in Iraq. You should really find that out before you defend their integrity. Unless you are in Iraq. Then I must ask you, what did you get your kids for kill america day?
It comes down to this. The casino is in the wrong. This casinos misinformed staff misinformed me outta some money. Big deal. I come here trying to advise players to go simply elsewhere. Id wished I had seen one thing myself saying DEL RIO STOLE $XXXX. If someone reads this thread and decides to play there, well then, they are a dumbfuck. Therefor my mission is accomplished. You may sit and discredit me if this casinos business and reputation really mean that much to you. That will not bother me. But if I have to come back to explain myself again due to your "wooden ears", I'll probably rant again. Just so your warned.

 

[mrracetrack]

Here is another "disgruntled" DelRio Casino player.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

jpm, you asked why I stated "[color=0000ff]You agreed then that he was wrong for not reading the T&C, now you've turned around 180 degrees. Why is that? None of the 'proof' that he posted was from the casino's website..." [/color]

I said that early on in this thread.

With the added imput from F_dupp, I started to see things differently, therefore changing my original thoughts on this issue.

He has presented a valid explanation, and provided enough information, for me to feel he has a legitimate beef with the casino.

You also said "[color=0000ff]The first time his withdrawl was rejected, he should have gone to the website and read the T&C there..." [/color] Well, he spoke with one of the casinos customer service reps. If they had said to him, specifically, "You played a game that is NOT ALLOWED as per our T&C, therefore you cannot cash out your winnings", My original thoughts would have stayed status quo.

Since this is NOT the case here, and assuming F_dupp is reporting this honestly, he has a valid complaint, in my opinion.

And although I don't think you're a "shill", as F_dupp does, I do think you have a rather "slanted" viewpoint in your constant support of the casinos.