Brexit - whats the difference.....

This you Kate?

Yet another entirely predictable (and predicted!) consequence of Brexit, and in particular Johnson's truly rotten deal - let's hope things don't escalate from here.

Brexit always presented an existential threat to the peace process, and its costs may yet be measured in human lives.

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This hasn’t that much to do with Brexit, it’s a lot deeper than that.
A very small element is the NI protocol , but this has been brewing up for 20 years and the final straw was the PSNI handling of a funeral that flouted Covid restrictions and was seen by many as a slap in the face to the majority of people in NI.
I don’t agree in any form with what is happening on the streets here, but it’s not right to say it’s been caused by Brexit.
 
Brewing for twenty years but just happens to have coincidentally exploded within four months of Brexit and the erection of a border in the Irish Sea.

Undoubtedly there are other factors and tensions at play, but the fact remains that Brexit represents the biggest (negative) change to circumstances there for a very long time.

Decent thread here:

 
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Brewing for twenty years but just happens to have coincidentally exploded within four months of Brexit and the erection of a border in the Irish Sea.

Undoubtedly there are other factors and tensions at play, but the fact remains that Brexit represents the biggest (negative) change to circumstances for a very long time.

Decent thread here:


Like has been said it has sod all to do with Brexit.

It has more to do with the fact people were pissed of with the fact several people never got charged for breaking coronavirus rules and attending a funeral.

And even because it is not in news all the time there is regularly still trouble over there.

Really I know you hate Brexit but scouring internet and adding articles from certain sources that aren't entirely accurate just to get your point across. That is sort of thing you normally call out other people for.
 
Like has been said it has sod all to do with Brexit.

It has more to do with the fact people were pissed of with the fact several people never got charged for breaking coronavirus rules and attending a funeral.

And even because it is not in news all the time there is regularly still trouble over there.

Really I know you hate Brexit but scouring internet and adding articles from certain sources that aren't entirely accurate just to get your point across. That is sort of thing you normally call out other people for.

1) It is impossible for you to categorically state it has 'sod all' to do with Brexit, and specifically with the NI Protocol. Plenty of clued-up folks are saying that the NI Protocol has had a detrimental effect on stability in Ireland.

2) That may very well be a contributing factor.

3) I know.

4) It's being pretty widely reported this morning, 'scouring' not exactly required.
 
Like has been said it has sod all to do with Brexit.

It has more to do with the fact people were pissed of with the fact several people never got charged for breaking coronavirus rules and attending a funeral.

And even because it is not in news all the time there is regularly still trouble over there.

Really I know you hate Brexit but scouring internet and adding articles from certain sources that aren't entirely accurate just to get your point across. That is sort of thing you normally call out other people for.
Remember that your talking to the same guy that mocked the UK for how much it overspent on vaccines because they where not in the EU :D
 
1) It is impossible for you to categorically state it has 'sod all' to do with Brexit, and specifically with the NI Protocol. Plenty of clued-up folks are saying that the NI Protocol has had a detrimental effect on stability in Ireland.

2) That may very well be a contributing factor.

3) I know.

4) It's being pretty widely reported this morning, 'scouring' not exactly required.
Well if that is what you genuinely believe.

Friends and family that stay in the area and actually know what is happening day to day would disagree.

But I suppose all these experts know better than the people actually involved and the ones experiencing what happens on a day to day basis.

It has never been stable there it only ever takes one minute thing to stir up trouble. And sorry the latest happenings were nothing at all to do with Brexit.
 
Brewing for twenty years but just happens to have coincidentally exploded within four months of Brexit and the erection of a border in the Irish Sea.

Undoubtedly there are other factors and tensions at play, but the fact remains that Brexit represents the biggest (negative) change to circumstances there for a very long time.

Decent thread here:


And when i was over there a couple of years ago there was a bus hijacked and burnt.a horrible atmosphere and lots of trouble. Funny Brexit had not happened. Guess maybe they were just thinking about what Brexit might cause when they burnt that bus.
 
And when i was over there a couple of years ago there was a bus hijacked and burnt.a horrible atmosphere and lots of trouble. Funny Brexit had not happened. Guess maybe they were just thinking about what Brexit might cause when they burnt that bus.
To be fair, us lot burning things out back home is inbuilt into our DNA

Any excuse for milk bottles, rags and oil and we're on it: Cadbury's shaving 10% off my chocolate? - Finish that milk bottle, i need to use it.
 
1) It is impossible for you to categorically state it has 'sod all' to do with Brexit, and specifically with the NI Protocol. Plenty of clued-up folks are saying that the NI Protocol has had a detrimental effect on stability in Ireland.

2) That may very well be a contributing factor.

3) I know.

4) It's being pretty widely reported this morning, 'scouring' not exactly required.
I live in Belfast.
I live in what would be classed as a loyalist area.
This isn’t Brexit causing this , a lot of people within loyalist communities feel , rightly or wrongly, that they have been left behind in the sharing of the peace dividend from the GFA.
There is still a very strong underlying current of them and us in both communities in NI , and that has never been addressed by the political situation here, as the two main parties only seem to want to drive that agenda.
Last year, at the height of Covid restrictions, a leading Sinn Fein member died. At the time of his death there were many restrictions on the number of people that could attend funerals. 24 MLA’ from Sinn Fein, politicians from the ROI and over 2,000 other people attended the funeral parade , clearly in breach of regulations.
A parade around a cemetery went ahead as part of the funeral , even through the body was not to be buried there.
Families had to wait outside the gates of the only crematorium in NI and say goodbye to their loved ones for the final time. The family members for this funeral were allowed in to crematorium. This was clear double standards, and when the PPS decided not to press charges after an investigation into all this , that was the final straw for many loyalists and they didn’t need much persuasion to kick off.
Brexit and the NI protocol isn’t causing these events , but it is certainty being used by some to keep the fires raging.
And not everything in this world has to revolve around Brexit.
 
1) It is impossible for you to categorically state it has 'sod all' to do with Brexit, and specifically with the NI Protocol. Plenty of clued-up folks are saying that the NI Protocol has had a detrimental effect on stability in Ireland.

2) That may very well be a contributing factor.

3) I know.

4) It's being pretty widely reported this morning, 'scouring' not exactly required.
Well heres it in lay man's terms "this has fuck all to do with brexit" it's down to 1 rule for them and another for us, yes and it might be widely reported but its bull shite.
 
My thoughts on commenting on this thread at this current moment are much the same as those that Ricky Gervais had when he
pondered if it was a good idea to do a joke about a Holocaust-themed movie having no gag reel on the DVD.

"Don't do it"

"It'll be fine"

Conclusion: Best say nothing and admit that Ricky Gervais has a much bigger pair of balls than I do :oops:

Well, actually, I will say something.

Really not surprised in the slightest that Choppers would choose to use the current situation in Norn Iron as a means for him to have another one of his arrogant, smug as fuck "I told you so" moments re: Brexit (which to be honest, are getting really fucking boring now).

But I was somewhat surprised to find that he was willing to then double down on that arrogance and actually suggest that he is more qualified than PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY FUCKING LIVE IN BELFAST (I live a mere 2.6 miles away from the peace line where that rioting took place on Wednesday night) to decide whether the current tensions are because of Brexit or not.

Really, Choppers? Frankly, you have taken the arrogance cake to a whole new level.

PS As a nationalist, I thought @cncas2123's post (#3810) was a perfect analysis/summary of the situation.

But hey, why let something as annoying as FACTS get in the way of Chopper's feelings? :rolleyes:
 
Really not surprised in the slightest that Choppers would choose to use the current situation in Norn Iron as a means for him to have another one of his arrogant, smug as fuck "I told you so" moments re: Brexit (which to be honest, are getting really fucking boring now).

Crikey, if only there was some sort of really easy way to avoid reading and/or posting to the thread, and getting so bored with it all.

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Opposing Brexit involves hoping you’re wrong. You want to be wrong about the economic consequences. You want to be wrong about the UK’s international standing. And most of all you want to be wrong about Northern Ireland.

This has therefore been a grim week for both Leavers and Remainers, because they suggest the latter weren’t wrong. The scenes that have played out in the Shankill and Springfield areas of Belfast over the last few days are like a bad dream come to life. They are every warning that was made over the last five years come horribly true.

It began with the decision by public authorities on March 30th not to charge any members of Sinn Fein over a huge funeral which seemed to contradict covid regulations. Rioting has now taken place for seven nights, leading to 55 officers being injured, masked gangs throwing bottles and bricks across ‘peace line’ fortifications, and a torched bus.

The funeral might have sparked it, but it could have been anything. Everyone knows the truth, even if not everyone will admit it: the protocol threw a spanner in the delicate constitutional machinery of Ireland. That then enflamed long-simmering division and a sense of unfairness. If we’re lucky, this will be as bad as it gets – a series of violent skirmishes, mercifully with no-one killed. If we’re unlucky, it is just the start. All it takes is one death – a stray firework or petrol bomb – for things to escalate out of control.

There’s more going on here than Brexit, of course: there’s lack of opportunity, neglect from Westminster, poverty, and the self-interested pot-boiling cynicism of political parties, in particular the DUP. But Brexit was the tinder. It started the fire. And without Brexit we would not be seeing what we are seeing today.
 
And if anyone cares to read the article linked above, or indeed avail themselves of a consensus of opinion around the current NI situation, no one is saying BREXIT IS 100% TO BLAME FOR THIS. Just the bit I quoted above openly acknowledges that there are many complex factors in play here, and also explicitly cites the Sinn Fein funeral that has been mentioned by a couple of people in this thread.

However, it's pretty much impossible to argue that the NI Protocol (which of course is part of Brexit) hasn't had a negative effect in not only practical terms, but also in emotional terms. The people of NI were promised there would never be a border of any kind between NI and the rest of the UK, but that's what they've ended up with, a border straight down the Irish Sea.

Like with a lot of Brexit, it's not all black and white, it's many shades of murky grey, and it takes time for the ugly truths of what Brexit means, on so many levels, to finally start to reveal themselves.
 
So the eminent reporter thinks that the disquiet and lack of opportunity is mainly a consequence of Brexit?
Nope, the loyalist community in general, and a lot of nationalist communities, feel that they have missed out on the GFA peace dividend, particularly when they see paramilitaries living the high life while their communities aren't seeing much in the way of improvement.
The PPS decision was the final straw for many, and their were many willing to grasp this straw and send impressionable teenagers out to the streets to cause mayhem.
Brexit is a side issue in these communities as they havent really felt the effects of it yet.
But sure what would I know, I have only lived here for 53 years and spent my years growing up listening to the bombs going off and seeing death and destruction on the news most days.
 
Another good analysis here. Once again it is not in any way suggesting that Brexit and the NI Protocol are the only reasons we've seen trouble flare up, it discusses multiple factors that are involved, many of them that have been simmering for a very long time, and of course the impact of Covid.

But once again, to say 'Brexit has nothing to do with any of this' is a very blinkered argument to try and make. It's part of the problem, and it's made things worse.

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The roots of the violence that flared up over the past week on the streets of Belfast are like everything else in Northern Irish politics – complicated.

On 30 June last year, in the midst of the Coronavirus pandemic, leading Sinn Féin and Republican officials turned out for the funeral of Bobby Storey, a former major figure in the IRA.

That event, attended by some 2,000 people – including the Deputy First Minister Michelle O’Neill and former Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams – sparked fury in Unionist circles. Footage showed that few of the mourners were wearing face coverings and it looked like social distancing measures weren’t being adhered to. But, more than that, the scale of the event was clearly out of keeping with COVID-19 guidelines and, when it emerged that O’Neill had met the Police Service of Northern Ireland’s Chief Constable prior to the event, fury mounted.

For many, the funeral was proof of the long-running narrative in loyalist communities that Republicans receive preferential treatment and that, since the Good Friday Agreement was signed in 1998, it had been ‘one rule for us and another for them’.

The
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, announced by Northern Ireland’s Public Prosecution Service last week, that there would be no attempt to prosecute anyone attending the funeral was undoubtedly the spark that lit the riots of the past week.

But that was not the only factor at play.

Two weeks ago, four members of the
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) were charged with conspiring to supply class A drugs during an ongoing investigation by the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the National Crime Agency. Many Northern Ireland commentators have suggested that the outfit has ‘piggy-backed’ on broader Unionist anger and that the violence was stoked by them in response to those arrests.

Matters have not been helped by the ongoing tensions around COVID-19 restrictions which have deepened social deprivation in the region, under-investment in poorer areas and led to rising
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.

But, as that red double-decker bus burned on the Shankill Road on Wednesday night, few were in doubt that the metaphors were writing themselves: for at the bitter heart of the current discontent lies Brexit.

----------------------

There is little doubt that leaving the EU is proving to be an unmitigated disaster for Northern Ireland.

While the peace process that was forged in the 1990s was not itself predicated on membership of the EU, it was the shared membership of it by the UK and the Republic of Ireland that enabled it to work. Open borders, the Customs Union and the Single Market allowed freedom of access and movement back and forth across Ireland and, with it, the facilitation of peace.

Brexit resurrected real and imagined barriers and the botched solution that is the Northern Ireland Protocol has only made things worse. That undertaking, which essentially places a border in the Irish Sea while keeping Northern Ireland in the Single Market, has created another nightmare altogether. For quite apart from businesses in Northern Ireland now having to fill in a mountain of paperwork, it has plunged many Unionists into an existential crisis.

To many loyalists and unionists, the Northern Ireland Protocol is a betrayal which undermines their place in the United Kingdom and leaves them out in the EU cold.

It would all be depressing enough if it had not been so widely predicted.
 
It just shows your political prejudice, bias and hatred of anything Tory or slightly right of the political spectrum. Almost every one of your posts has this theme.

Well you don't exactly need to be Poirot to work out my political leanings, and nor do I make any pretence to be anything other than a holder of very left wing and liberal opinions and viewpoints.

So yes, when it comes to my posts in a political thread such as this, that's inevitably going to be a instructional component - it's not like I'm the BBC and bound by statute to be impartial.
 
Reply
Well you don't exactly need to be Poirot to work out my political leanings, and nor do I make any pretence to be anything other than a holder of very left wing and liberal opinions and viewpoints.

So yes, when it comes to my posts in a political thread such as this, that's inevitably going to be a instructional component - it's not like I'm the BBC and bound by statute to be impartial.
And you know more about whats going on in Belfast than people who are actually living in the situation do.
 
Reply

And you know more about whats going on in Belfast than people who are actually living in the situation do.
Except that's a claim I haven't even remotely made.
 
That's right, instead it is coming from "journalists" that have their own agenda to push.

I rather listen to those that don't have a political agenda, thank you very much.

OK cool let me know when you find one :)
 
OK cool let me know when you find one :)

Well there are plenty of members here that have had their input for a start.

It was you that associated the Northern Ireland troubles with Brexit simply by posting it in this Brexit topic. You could, and perhaps should, have made a separate topic.
 
Reply

And you know more about whats going on in Belfast than people who are actually living in the situation do.
What you talking about? Everyone knows having to complete a form is enough to send a population into a frenzy.

I mean, when i found all that out, i was digging up my mums back garden looking for my old bats and knuckledusters.
 
What you talking about? Everyone knows having to complete a form is enough to send a population into a frenzy.

I mean, when i found all that out, i was digging up my mums back garden looking for my old bats and knuckledusters.
In Swedish its 'Knogjärn' which translates to Knuckleiron, how are you going to hurt anyone with a knuckleduster?


mmmm.png
 
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Well you don't exactly need to be Poirot to work out my political leanings, and nor do I make any pretence to be anything other than a holder of very left wing and liberal opinions and viewpoints.

So yes, when it comes to my posts in a political thread such as this, that's inevitably going to be a instructional component - it's not like I'm the BBC and bound by statute to be impartial.

Choppers.

You are obviously well educated.

But i have to say, that in this thread you have been a complete Dick since day 1.

Your latest posts just reek of desperation to find some justification for your bizarre opinions.
 
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Again, this is not relevant to what is happening at the moment. If Brexit is an element, its a very small element.
This is about people in many communities feeling left behind. These are communities that havent even felt the effects of Brexit.
Another major element is the fact that the PSNI are cracking down on criminal cartels that have had a stranglehold on these communities for years. The top men in these cartels are calling their child soldiers out to the streets in a show of strength. Nothing to do with Brexit, but most definitely using the spectre of a sea border as a rallying call.
And on this I know what I am talking about, and I believe i have a better understanding of the situation here than either you our your quoted reporter. Try living this every day, and maybe you will have a better understanding of what really matters to these people, I can assure you it isnt Brexit.
 
Another political commentator who presumably has no idea what he's talking about and is also a dick.

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Sorry mate, you are wrong about this. Plenty of people have told you the real reasons this is going on, I don't see why you won't accept it. I know a couple of lads in NI who are, lets just say, well aware of whats going on, and the fact there was going to be trouble was well known for a while before it started. It has nothing to do with Brexit.
 
Another political commentator who presumably has no idea what he's talking about and is also a dick.

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For a self enlightened liberal, you are at pains to even discuss any of the points made by some from here. Even if you to ask questions. Instead just resorting to trawling the web for back up to you narrative and confirmation bias.

And probably one of the most arrogant posters on here. But sure, crack on with drawing dotted lines to Brexit.
 
For a self enlightened liberal, you are at pains to even discuss any of the points made by some from here. Even if you to ask questions. Instead just resorting to trawling the web for back up to you narrative and confirmation bias.

And probably one of the most arrogant posters on here. But sure, crack on with drawing dotted lines to Brexit.

You have by far a more eloquent way of expressing your opinion, even more so when compared to my brash bluntness.:thumbsup:
 
Noted arrogant dick and woketard Chris Grey, who has called Brexit correctly pretty much right from the referendum onwards, covers NI in his latest blog post.

He also takes the time to qualify his statements, and also provides ample evidence to back up his observations.

And lest we forget that NI did of course vote to remain in the EU by a reasonable margin.

Anyway, the full article is here. (Links to sources/evidence are in the main article, for example the statement by loyalist paramilitary groups that they were withdrawing support for the GFA, and specifically citing Brexit/NI Protocol as the reason.)

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--------------------

Thus on the ground in Northern Ireland things have been anything but quiet, and the
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, with the
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, is becoming a matter of serious concern. Considerable care is needed in commenting on this from a Brexit point of view, especially when that comment comes from someone, such as me, who does not live in Northern Ireland and can claim no expertise in its complex politics.

Nevertheless, it is abundantly clear
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that Brexit, or more particularly the NIP, is a significant factor in the renewed violence from some members of the loyalist or unionist community, even though it is
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. Moreover,
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that there is a paramilitary involvement in the latest violence – and although
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, it is a fact that over a month ago
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they had withdrawn support for the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement because of the Brexit deal. Perhaps worst of all, there are signs of a new generation, that had grown up with peace, now being drawn in, and there are also
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of plans for an ongoing campaign of ‘civil disobedience’.

It is two months since
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that “what is now becoming ever-clearer is that Brexit threw a huge rock into the high delicate and fragile machinery of the Northern Ireland peace process, a machinery of complex checks and balances which had as an implicit condition the fact that both Ireland and the UK were within the EU”. As Alliance Party MP
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, “Brexit has cracked Northern Ireland even though its constitutional status hasn’t changed”.

The directions that will take are highly unpredictable, and there can be no pleasure whatsoever taken from saying ‘I told you so’. Equally, it cannot be pretended that what is happening in Northern Ireland has come out of a clear blue sky - as one might think from some of the news headlines.
 
Noted arrogant dick and woketard Chris Grey, who has called Brexit correctly pretty much right from the referendum onwards, covers NI in his latest blog post.

He also takes the time to qualify his statements, and also provides ample evidence to back up his observations.

And lest we forget that NI did of course vote to remain in the EU by a reasonable margin.



--------------------
This is the most arrogant, stupid statement that I have ever read.
You and your preferred commentators have no idea what is the root cause of this.
Can you please take your head out of your arse for five minutes and try to understand that the people who are in the middle of this rioting, the teenagers who are out throwing the bricks and the petrol bombs, they arent even old enough to vote and have nom idea what Brexit is going to bring to them.
You must have very strong binoculars to see from the IOM whats going on daily in the Shankill, on Castlereagh Street/Short Strand, Sandy Row and the Donegal Road. I fucking live here, I know these communities, I work with people from these communities, I see what is going on.
THIS IS NOT BREXIT, IT WILL NOT BECOME AN OUTCOME FROM BREXIT JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY SO, STOP BEING A POMPOUS, SELF RIGHTEOUS, " I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU" REMAINER, AND FOR ONCE TAKE THE CLOTH OUT OF YOUR EARS AND LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS HERE DAY TO DAY.
 
Noted arrogant dick and woketard Chris Grey, who has called Brexit correctly pretty much right from the referendum onwards, covers NI in his latest blog post.

He also takes the time to qualify his statements, and also provides ample evidence to back up his observations.

And lest we forget that NI did of course vote to remain in the EU by a reasonable margin.

Anyway, the full article is here. (Links to sources/evidence are in the main article, for example the statement by loyalist paramilitary groups that they were withdrawing support for the GFA, and specifically citing Brexit/NI Protocol as the reason.)

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--------------------

Thus on the ground in Northern Ireland things have been anything but quiet, and the
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, with the
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, is becoming a matter of serious concern. Considerable care is needed in commenting on this from a Brexit point of view, especially when that comment comes from someone, such as me, who does not live in Northern Ireland and can claim no expertise in its complex politics.

Nevertheless, it is abundantly clear
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that Brexit, or more particularly the NIP, is a significant factor in the renewed violence from some members of the loyalist or unionist community, even though it is
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. Moreover,
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that there is a paramilitary involvement in the latest violence – and although
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, it is a fact that over a month ago
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they had withdrawn support for the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement because of the Brexit deal. Perhaps worst of all, there are signs of a new generation, that had grown up with peace, now being drawn in, and there are also
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
of plans for an ongoing campaign of ‘civil disobedience’.

It is two months since
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that “what is now becoming ever-clearer is that Brexit threw a huge rock into the high delicate and fragile machinery of the Northern Ireland peace process, a machinery of complex checks and balances which had as an implicit condition the fact that both Ireland and the UK were within the EU”. As Alliance Party MP
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, “Brexit has cracked Northern Ireland even though its constitutional status hasn’t changed”.


The directions that will take are highly unpredictable, and there can be no pleasure whatsoever taken from saying ‘I told you so’. Equally, it cannot be pretended that what is happening in Northern Ireland has come out of a clear blue sky - as one might think from some of the news headlines.

And lest also not forget NI is part of the UK.

Who's all combined vote which included NI was to leave the EU.
 
I definitely take on board and listen to the NI based members as to what is occurring, they know what is happening here, but just a few outsider thoughts I have pondered.

On the brexit referendum, could it be the majority of NI catholics voted remain, plus the labour/liberal minded out of the protestants, so that was a majority but 'remain' is not representative of the loyalist union view as a whole.

My guess is the authorities have been ignoring the loyalists and treating them in a secondary manner for quite a while, causing another side effect from positive discrimination programs, resentment and anger of unequal treatment.

It's slowly done but people feel or become aware their position or traditional community is being made weaker, and at some point they feel they have to make a stand or protest to try and arrest that movement towards further decline.

It could come across as an easy and convenient excuse from the uk establishment [who are mostly remainers] to blame the troubles on brexit and ignore the real longer term underlying reasons, which they themselves have been partly to blame for in their administration of govt.
 
I definitely take on board and listen to the NI based members as to what is occurring, they know what is happening here, but just a few outsider thoughts I have pondered.

On the brexit referendum, could it be the majority of NI catholics voted remain, plus the labour/liberal minded out of the protestants, so that was a majority but 'remain' is not representative of the loyalist union view as a whole.

My guess is the authorities have been ignoring the loyalists and treating them in a secondary manner for quite a while, causing another side effect from positive discrimination programs, resentment and anger of unequal treatment.

It's slowly done but people feel or become aware their position or traditional community is being made weaker, and at some point they feel they have to make a stand or protest to try and arrest that movement towards further decline.

It could come across as an easy and convenient excuse from the uk establishment [who are mostly remainers] to blame the troubles on brexit and ignore the real longer term underlying reasons, which they themselves have been partly to blame for in their administration of govt.

I do take on board what people are saying mack, and each of the articles I've referenced makes it explicitly clear that it's a complex problem with multiple causes, but to flat out declare 'Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with it' is just as bone-headed as suggesting that it's 100% Brexit's fault.

There's no getting around the fact, for example, that the Loyalist Community Council withdrew its support for the GFA, and made it clear it was because of concerns about the NI Protocol.

1618155574824.webp


Decent video here too:

 
I do take on board what people are saying mack, and each of the articles I've referenced makes it explicitly clear that it's a complex problem with multiple causes, but to flat out declare 'Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with it' is just as bone-headed as suggesting that it's 100% Brexit's fault.

So why post the NI troubles in this topic that is all about Brexit? Wouldn't it have been better to create a separate topic about the NI troubles?
 
I do take on board what people are saying mack, and each of the articles I've referenced makes it explicitly clear that it's a complex problem with multiple causes, but to flat out declare 'Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with it' is just as bone-headed as suggesting that it's 100% Brexit's fault.

There's no getting around the fact, for example, that the Loyalist Community Council withdrew its support for the GFA, and made it clear it was because of concerns about the NI Protocol.

View attachment 153567

Decent video here too:



I wasn't happy about the implications of that protocol, so it wouldn't surprise me if it pissed off quite a few loyalists, and seen as more evidence they were being overlooked and ignored, but that feeling had been going on in other ways for much longer therefore brexit is really not the cause and reversing brexit would not solve the underlying stuff.

I think in a couple of years there has to be a democratic vote on carrying on with the NI protocol, the arrangements with Ire and the EU as it were, but if the NI catholics vote en mass to keep the arrangement but most protestants don't want it, it complicates the democratic process.

I primarily blame the EU for looking to use ireland as some sort of negotiating tool to get what they want, retain close alignment and future control over uk policy/resources.
 
So why post the NI troubles in this topic that is all about Brexit? Wouldn't it have been better to create a separate topic about the NI troubles?
Why on earth would he do something like that? He was closing in on going a full month without posting in this thread.

Can you imagine the inner turmoil, the sheer anguish that he must have been enduring before some of my fellow countrymen
rather considerately decided to go out for an evening of good old rioting (with some rather spiffing improvised pyrotechnics
thrown in for good measure!) to help provide him with the material he so desperately needed in order to have another one of his Brexit pity parties.

BTW inter, did you not get the memo? It reads as follows....

Leavers must not be allowed to EVER forget that IKnowBetterThanLiterallyEveryoneOnThisForumAboutLiterallyEverythingIOM REMAINS salty
as fuck over the result of the referendum and needs to hold one of his Brexit pity parties every so often in order to stay sane,
especially when you consider that he currently isn't able to...

1. brag about being able to go out for a pint and/or a meal at a nice restaurant (god, didn't that....cough....."humble brag" age well? :rolleyes: ),
2. consume said pint and meal because COVID has had the audacity to invade his perfectly-ran little offshore tax haven idyll

So naturally, he now thinks that he is entitled to call people from NI who have the audacity to not share his opinion "bone-headed".

leoclapping.gif



And he wonders why some people here think he is a smug, arrogant arsehole?

A legend in his own mind. And yet he has an embarrassing inability to read the fucking room.

Now if you will excuse me, I urgently need to go to the Covid thread and read a couple of dealer's posts in order to relax a little bit....
 
So why post the NI troubles in this topic that is all about Brexit? Wouldn't it have been better to create a separate topic about the NI troubles?

Because Brexit doesn't exist in a vacuum, and the current situation in NI, whilst multi-factorial in nature, is related to Brexit and more specifically the NI Protocol. We've all seen the clip of Boris Johnson giving an absolute cast-iron guarantee that there would never be any checks on goods to and from NI? That was his promise to the Unionists and he broke it, the same as he breaks every other promise he makes.

Johnson threw NI under the bus and was aided and abetted in doing so by the DUP, who are of course desperately flailing around now trying to blame anyone and anything else for their own gross incompetence.
 
Because Brexit doesn't exist in a vacuum, and the current situation in NI, whilst multi-factorial in nature, is related to Brexit and more specifically the NI Protocol. We've all seen the clip of Boris Johnson giving an absolute cast-iron guarantee that there would never be any checks on goods to and from NI? That was his promise to the Unionists and he broke it, the same as he breaks every other promise he makes.

Johnson threw NI under the bus and was aided and abetted in doing so by the DUP, who are of course desperately flailing around now trying to blame anyone and anything else for their own gross incompetence.

But, as you have said, it not just Brexit. By you posting it in this Brexit topic you're making it appear it is Brexit only that is causing the issue when in reality it is not.

Do you honestly think that the retards throwing the Molotov cocktails even know what Brexit is, let alone how it affects them?
 
Because Brexit doesn't exist in a vacuum, and the current situation in NI, whilst multi-factorial in nature, is related to Brexit and more specifically the NI Protocol. We've all seen the clip of Boris Johnson giving an absolute cast-iron guarantee that there would never be any checks on goods to and from NI? That was his promise to the Unionists and he broke it, the same as he breaks every other promise he makes.

Johnson threw NI under the bus and was aided and abetted in doing so by the DUP, who are of course desperately flailing around now trying to blame anyone and anything else for their own gross incompetence.
Seriously? You are still linking this to Brexit? You havent a clue what you are talking about yet you still insist its Brexit and you are the expert?
Take a break, have a kit-kat and try and stop your one brain cell from feeling lonely.
 
I think it's pretty obvious really. There's a couple of Irishmen in here, all agreeing that they are aware of who the people are that are smashing and burning things in their surrounding neighbourhoods. These same Irish also seem to spend an unusual amount of their their time talking amongst themselves like good buddies, while taking it in turns to shsre screenshots with each other while they hand their asses over to bonanza as if it's a competition to see who can have the shittest run per day and gets to throw the first molotov.
I told you to stop stop playing bonanza guys, last bloody year. I wasn't the only one either.
But no, instead you decide 'nah f**k that idiot', and not only continued to do your bollocks for 18 months, you've obviously been running around telling all your friends they gotta get in on the action cause it's bound to drop sometime.
 
A withering assessment of Brexit from CNN, I'm wondering where all the good news stories are when it comes to Brexit? Vaccination is the one thing that people will hold up, although the indisputable fact remains that the UK did nothing on vaccines it couldn't have done as a full EU member (and indeed basically did do, as we were still in transition at the time), but go on, have vaccination if you must. But outside of that, where are the Brexit dividends? What's got better? What's been improved?

The Tescos of this world have simply brute-forced it, they've got the back office operations and business muscle to get to grips with the raft of red tape and paperwork that's involved in being outside the EU, and they can simply pass the cost on without fanfare to the customer.

Small and medium sized businesses however have been absolutely ransacked.

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It's been 100 days since the United Kingdom split from its single biggest trading partner and Brexit is proving to be disastrous
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, which have rejected Johnson's description of the issues as "teething problems" and are now asking the government to take urgent action to prevent further losses.

"We are calling on both the UK and EU to get back around the table and produce solutions that reduce trade barriers and give exporters a fighting chance," British Chambers of Commerce co-executive director Hannah Essex said in a statement on Monday.
"The difficulties exporters are facing are not just 'teething problems.' They are structural issues that, if they continue to go unaddressed, could lead to long term, potentially irreversible weakness in the UK export sector," she added.

------------

During negotiations on the Brexit deal, the problem of goods moving between Ireland, which is a member of the European Union, and Northern Ireland, which is part of the United Kingdom, proved the most intractable. Honoring the 1998 Good Friday Agreement that ended three decades of sectarian violence meant avoiding the return of a border on the island of Ireland.

Instead, Johnson agreed that Northern Ireland would remain subject to EU market rules and to erect a trade border down the Irish Sea to police them, angering pro-British unionists who object to Northern Ireland being treated differently than the rest of the United Kingdom. Johnson had pledged in 2019 that there would be no checks on goods moving between Britain and Northern Ireland.

Riots and violence in the streets of Belfast this month have stoked fears of a return to Northern Ireland's troubled past and led a spokesperson for the US State Department to warn that the Good Friday Agreement must not "become a casualty of Brexit."

--------------

UK food and drink exports collapsed in January, driven by a 76% decline in sales to the European Union compared to the same month last year, according to the Food and Drink Federation. Exports of salmon tumbled 98%, beef slid 92% and animal feed declined 80%. Whisky exports fell 63%. According to the Office for National Statistics, exports of food and live animals recovered somewhat in February, but remain below 2020 levels.

"The solution is to swallow our pride and strike a veterinary agreement," according to L. Alan Winters, founding director of the UK Trade Policy Observatory at the University of Sussex. "Without it we are going to see little chance of animal products picking up," he added.

-------------

The new trading relationship is expected to lead to a long-run loss of output in Britain of around 4% compared to remaining in the European Union, according to the UK Office for Budget Responsibility, which produces economic forecasts for the government. Exports and imports will be around 15% lower in the long run.

According to Jerzewska, the trade expert, the main consequence will be the gradual shift of supply chains as EU producers find alternative suppliers. "Businesses follow the path of least resistance and the new barriers to trade can make the UK suppliers less competitive on the EU market," she said.
 

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